There are people lurking this board RIGHT NOW who DO NOT have a shrine on their homes dedicated to Zhuge Liang, Liu Bei...

>the-archlich.tumblr.com/post/92945620562

They are deified for their bravery, wits and above all, LOYALTY. No one ever said they where invincible.

Get back to tumblr, youre family name is probably Sima isn't it!! You beast!!

You're just a butt-damaged Chao-Chao fan boy mad that your boy didn't have the Chinese Da Vinci on his side.

How are those repeater crossbows and flame spitting dragon cannons treating you? Oh wait, you don't have those Hahahahhaha

I am great fan of Zhuge Liang need to know his present following and info

kek

They're slimy bastards, far from loyal

He was a renouned military strategist, engineer, poet, astronomer and overall polymath in the service of the kingdom of Shu.

Ledgend has him playing a pivotal role in key battles such as the clash at Red Cliff, in which tales tell he came up with the idea of using the wind that was blowing toward enemy lines to light their ships on fire. It worked.

He also oversaw the campaign to pacify the southern Nanman tribes in the difficult mountainous reaches of southwestern China.

He was a fraud. Failed against Wei. Failed against Shu.

>LOYALTY
Guan Yu betrayed Liu Bei by surrendering to Cao Cao then betrayed Cao Cao to join Liu Bei. Liu Bei literally betrayed every major warlord he served with.

Zhuge Liang was only one of many great minds of the time period. He only got so much attention because he had less competition in the comparatively isolated Shu and did not have to compete with the galaxies of talent that appeared in Wei and Wu. And even then, Qiao Zhou et al were probably more talented poets, astronomers, and polymaths than Zhuge Liang ever was. Zhuge Liang was more a patron and sponsor of polymaths than a polymath himself.

>One “chi” is approximately equal to one Imperial foot (or .3 meters). This means that, according to Shu’s official records, Zhuge Liang was 8 feet tall (that’s 2.4 meters for my metric friends). While we don’t have any official sources to discredit that claim, if you believe he was 8 feet tall, you’re an idiot.

Ha, look at the irony of an idiot calling others idiots.

A 尺 may be 0.3 meters in modern times, but it was about 0.23 meters at the end of Han. 8 尺 is a perfectly believable 1.8 meters or 6 feet tall.

I'm only on page 200 guys

>have Mandate of Heaven
>lose

>Failed against Shu.

How can he fail against his own sountry you twat. You're thinking of Wu, but you still fail anyway.

I have been reading this entire thread with tears in my eyes while listening to this:
youtube.com/watch?v=pa14MVSgGp0

How can people who have benefitted so much from the Han now be so much against it?
Do you not value loyalty?
Do you not value filial piety?
Do you not value virtuousness?
Who are you anyway? Just a random bunch of Cao and Sun supporters with nothing to show for yourselves.
If Cao Cao was so great, why did Sima Yi managed to steal everything from him in the end?
Why do you support failed traitors who have not an inch of land to be buried and whose ancestral temples are already desecrated?

Who?

why did I laugh

Even biologically speaking, he was a success.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuge_Village

>"The majority of villagers living in Zhuge Village today constitute a full quarter of Zhuge Liang’s remaining 16,000 46th- to 55th-generation descendants."[1] According to the population census completed in the end of 1992, there are about 890 families and 2879 people in the village.

Goddammit, I knew this was going to happen.
I'm watching the 2010 series and I had a feeling the Liu Bei was going to weasel his way out of his promise.

Sorry user I didn't think I'd spoil anyone. You're in for a 10/10 series though, I enjoyed every minute of it (except the Diaochan bullshit)

No worries, I don't really care about spoilers.
The show's been great so far and I'm even warming up to the Shu faction.
Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yun are still boring mary sue types, but it's becoming clear to me that Liu Bei's hypocricy is an actual character trait, rather than bad writing.
The character became a lot more interesting when I realised he is just a Cao Cao who pretends he's better than he really is and uses the loyalty and hero angle as a means to get what he wants, instead of actually being a hero.

Okay, literally how do you pronounce Cao Cao?

Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Prime Minister Cao Ahman? It's a Chinese legend. Cao Cao was a Lord of Wei, so powerful and so wise, he could use Emperor Xian to influence the heavens to create...Liu Bei butthurt. He had such a knowledge of warfare, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from being cucked. He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power...which, eventually of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice Sima Yi everything he knew. Then his apprentice ended his line of succession. Ironic. He could save others from being cucked...but not himself.

>only one village
>biologically successful
Real successful ones have tens to hundreds of villages. Seriously, look them up.

The C is the same c in prinCe

Sima Yi's connection to Cao Cao is rather overblown (probably due to Jin propaganda to shore up their image as successor to Wei). Yeah, the two were close, but Sima Yi was only one of many younger officers who could claim to have been "apprentices" to Cao Cao.

But on the other hand, Sima Yi did end up outliving all the other ones, so...

>Real successful ones have tens to hundreds of villages. Seriously, look them up.
More like people sharing the surname fabricate genealogies to claim famous historical figures as ancestors.

...

>three kingdoms romance
>it's actually 1 vs 1 boring shit because two of the kingdoms join to fight the third

Wew lad

Shu is shit
Wei is ok
Wu is underrated and has a nice color scheme but is ultimatley just ok
Jin boyz is where its at

Note where he throws his son onto the ground, this brain damage will come into play later on.

>Liu Bei literally betrayed every major warlord he served with.
Don't forget that while Lady Bian accompanied Cao Cao on many campaigns, Liu Bei was the only warlord of the era known to have abandoned his family on no less than THREE separate occasions to save himself.

>but when he was winning he lost in the end.

Liu Bei never even comprehended the concept of loyalty, let alone lived as an exemplar of it

Reminder that Zhuge 'why does it always rain on me' Liang did everything wrong.

Reminder that Sima Yi did nothing wrong.

It's worse than that: Liu Bei actually buys into his own hype. When he's not failing miserably and being thrown into episodes of crippling self-doubt.

That's not even mentioning how he choose to kill Liu Feng despite being loyal and competent since he already choose Liu Chan.

I started watching this series a few days ago. Previously my only experience with the 3 Kingdoms had been the movie Red Cliff which had a very clear "good vs evil" plot line. Its really cool to see the different points of view this show offers. I find myself hating characters at first and then slowly growing to like them (Lu Bu) or loving characters at first and then growing to dislike them (Liu Bei).

Plebeian: Shu
Contrarian: Jin/Wu
Patrician: Wei

sauce?

Three Kingdoms 2010, it's on YouTube

His goat (literally goat, the animal) face and his dumb laugh made me kek everytime. Same with Cao Cao's laugh.
Where they trying to make us empathize with the villains?

Chinese people have a massive boner with genealogies. Ancestor worship and stuff like that. People in the same extended family gather every few decades to update their genealogical trees. I would trust them on this one.

>Villains
The only villains were Lu Bu and his horrible evil adopted father Dong Shou. Cao Cao was only trying to restore the glory of the Han dynasty.

alright so listen

zhuge even uses his knowledge of weather patterns for the arrow collecting trick. how does he get rekt by fucking rain in the end?

>tfw can't play DW the same after watching Three Kingdoms
Does anyone know if Legend of Chu and Han is worth watching? I've heard it had a mixed reception.

>wanting to play Dynasty Warriors at all
kys tbqh familia

That series is hot fucking garbage.

>Chinese people have a massive boner with genealogies.
Most surviving genealogies date to the Qing dynasty.

Claims of common descent was used to solicit aid or to fabricate a prestigious lineage.

> Ancestor worship and stuff like that. People in the same extended family gather every few decades to update their genealogical trees. I would trust them on this one.
It doesn't matter who updates the genealogical tree if you see random historical figures that are included because they happen to share the same surname ie Liu Bang,Liu Bei etc.

Isn't that exactly the same way Liu Bei justified his reign?

black swan event, even with all his earthly knowledge he couldn't be 100% accurate all the time, shu han were noble and virtuous but heaven favored sima yi

The difference is that Liu Bei's purported Imperial ancestry is relatively recent and corroborated by historical sources.

Modern day Liu's(including my maternal ancestors) would have nothing to substantiate their claims.

Liu Bei only had to make up being related to his father, who was recorded in imperial records.

>implying Wei didn't have inventor geniuses
Wei has Ma Jun

Based off of that show? Yeah.

Wu gets pretty shortchanged by the narrative being very much about Cao Cao vs Liu Bei (and later Sima Yi vs Zhuge Liang).

>Lu Bu
>evil
>When the incarnation of treachery, opportunism, and hypocrisy Liu Bei is right there

Lu Bu attempted to destroy the house of Cao off of pure suspicion and was a dog to his step father. He is not better than the dog Dong Shou made him.

What would China look like now had Zhuge Liang succeeded, and Shu had united the empire?

They never had a chance.

And why are you asking this like the Jin didn't collapse nearly immediately, for that matter?

>shu han were noble and virtuous
>shu han were noble and virtuous
>shu han were noble and virtuous

Because had Shu won, there would have been no Jin, and no collapse of Jin.

All you had to do was follow the damn Lu Bu, CJ

>Tiny Shu commanded by incompetents and forced to lose supplies due to rough terrain.
>Winning against the massive forces of Wei filled with brilliant officers and fortified and well-supplied due to the Tuntian system.

Shu wouldn't have lasted any longer than Jin did.

Shu couldn't even maintain a record-keeping department. Who could seriously expect them to have even a shot of conquering Wei?

dong zhuo laugh > sima yi wheezing laugh
they're both amazing but I can't help but want to hang out with dong zhuo, seems like such a fun guy

You're aware that Liu Bei lived 1800 years ago right? He had children, and his children also had childre, and so on. 50 generations later there must be thousands of Liu Bei's descendants. Its not impossible.

There is no way modern day Liu clans can prove their descent from Liu Bei unless you have a DNA sample.(Even Cao Cao's purported descendants aren't always related to him)

Whether or not there are modern day descendants of Liu Bei isn't the point.

The point is not all Liu clans are descended from the Han imperial family and oldest extant genealogies date to the Song.

>Before the thread begins, you must get on your knees and worship Kongming and accept that the Han, ruling by the will of Heaven, are the only righteous form of government, even greater than Cao Cao!
I have a shrine to Imperial Father Dong, his will is the will of the Emperor.

>make some friends watch this
>"haha user, is like chinese Game of Thrones"

srsly, guys, are there any other chinese shows like Three Kingdoms?

I loved Lu Bu in this series. He was pride personified. 10/10 acting. Almost shed a single tear when he died. That episode took me by surprise.

>that time Cao Cao took Lu Bu's wife
What a dastardly fellow. Why does he love taking other Lord's wives?

Maybe Story of Han Dynasty.

This site seems very interesting for Chinese history, but it is weak on Crusade history.

For example:

>Of all the French lords, only King Philip himself could rival Raymond’s power and prestige.

King Phillip was not that strong. There were plenty of French lords that were stronger.
And the Duke of Aquitaine was more powerful than Raymond.

His Chinese history is pretty bad too. He can't read Chinese, so his interpretations are basically a big telephone game where he reads summaries made by non-Chinese speaking historians who read stuff written by Chinese speaking historians who read the Chinese history records. Needless to say they're full of wrong assumptions.

I don't think Legend of Chu and Han has English subtitles

I am an East Aryan Korean of dongyi Manchu descent (Manchus and Koreans are the same) and the Han Chinese are my sworn enemies. They are mere peasants and slaves to the Korean nobleman and Korea and China have nothing to do with each other

t. barbarian revisionist

My grandmother is Koryo-saram and My grandfather was born in Manchu provinces. The members of my family, They have Nanai-Korean blood in their veins. And as of the present, Our family is living in korea. Our relatives are living in Russia, Primorsky and Sakhalin. Our ancestors originate from the antient Suksin. The province of the Suksin tribe are Primorsky in russia and regions in Amur. Korea and Manchu are in the same cultural area. therefore, Korean and the Manchu language may be different but they still come from the same root(The Southern Tungus group).The ancestors of the Koreans are not the Manchu people. the Ancestrial of the Koreans are from the Yemaekhaan tribe. The Ymh tribe and Suksin tribe for a long period of time have exchanged culture in language, and culture. They travelled back and forth to Primorsky and the Manchu regions. The South Manchu region's first ruler were the Gojoseon of Yemaekhaan tribe, and East-yi,West-yi,North-yi,Ku-yi,, We are all like yi-brothers

Why do I have to worship dead bodies when I can actually read about them and know what they did and preserve their memory on the next generation

Why did you reply to all these anons? No one gives a shit about your we wuz delusions we are talking three kingdoms here.

When will the Records of the Three Kingdoms (三國志) be translated in English?

Never.

Though there's this idiot who's trying:
xuesanguo.tumblr.com

Out of all the periods of history I've found interesting.
Three Kingdoms has always been the most intriguing to me.

I read the first vol. in 8th grade after binging on Dynasty Warriors 4 for weeks.
Probably replayed that game 3 times in full.

Seriously can't get enough of it.

>tfw Xiahou Dun never actually did much.

He was Cao Cao's right hand from day one. That's not much to you?

>Guan "got absolutely fucking destroyed by a sick and dying old man" Yu
To be fair though Lu Meng was the only good Wu

>not piously attending to your ancestors and Zao Jun, and MAYBE the Amitābha

you don't worship dead bodies, you worship their spirits, as they have ascended to immortality through their legendary deeds. Duh.

>tfw Xiahou Dun never actually did much.
This stupid meme again.

xuesanguo.tumblr.com/post/143696666937/

>When Tàizǔ [Cáo Cāo] first raised troops, Dūn always served as vice commander and followed on campaign. When Tàizǔ became Acting General Exerting Martial Ability [190], Dūn was his Major, commanding a separate division at Báimǎ, was promoted to Colonel Breaking Charges, with office as Administrator of Dōng-jùn.
Xiahou Dun was Cao Cao's second-in-command from the beginning.

>He returned to authority as Administrator of Chénliú and Jìyīn, was promoted to General Establishing Martial Ability, with fief as Marquis of Gāo’ān village. At that time there was a great drought and a rising of locusts. Dūn therefore dammed the Tàishòu river to create a pond, personally carrying soil, and led the officers and soldiers in planting rice paddies, and the people depended on this benefit.
Chenliu and Jiyin were the centers of the Yanzhou rebellion against Cao Cao. Xiahou Dun's appointment there means he was in charged with pacifying and rebuilding the war-ravaged territory.

>He was transferred to authority as Intendant of Hénán.
Xiahou Dun defended Cao Cao's left flank during the confrontation with Yuan Shao at Guandu.

>While Tàizǔ pacified the [Yellow] River’s north, he was the commanding General defending the rear.
Self-explanatory. Cao Cao's conquest of the north was only possible due to Xiahou Dun supporting from the rear.

>Twenty-first year [216] he followed in the campaign against Sūn Quán and returned. Dūn was employed as Regional Commander over twenty-six armies remaining at Jūcháo.
Xiahou Dun was essentially commander-in-chief of the eastern front for a while, and apparently did a stand-up job putting pressure there because in 217 Sun Quan made nominal surrender in exchange for having Xiahou Dun's 26 armies removed.

It was his fetish I guess. He had about 8 women in his haram and all were previously married except lady bian who at the very least was a courtesan.

Lu Xun was the most able man the south ever had from start to finish. His exile was the biggest mistake sun quan ever made.

Cao Cao?
More like Cuck Cuck, amirite?

Uh huh. Why don't you actually try listing those 8 instead of making shit up?

While romantic portrayal just loves to cast Cao Cao as having a wife-stealing fetish, I've never actually seen any particularly strong evidence for it in historical records, especially considering that-

-at the time stealing other men's wives was considered a sign of male dominance. The male taking another's wife was the cuckoo stealing the nest from the cuckold, not the other way around. This was also why it was accepted practice for a conqueror to take the women of a conquered leader's harem and family into his own harem, as in the case of Sima Yan taking over Sun Hao's massive harem, such that it is said that Sima Yan's harem numbered over ten thousand women.

One might easily speculate that the image of Cao Cao stealing other men's wives was a natural development from earlier images of Cao Cao as victorious conqueror.

Give me some officers that served under Liu Yu so I can create them in ROTK XI so he doesn't immediately get steam rolled by Gongsun Zan or Yuan Shao.

Xianyu Fu, Qi Zhou, Xianyu Yin, and Yan Rou

xuesanguo.tumblr.com/post/148280006149/

>Uh huh. Why don't you actually try listing those 8 instead of making shit up?
Lady Du, Lady Bian, Lady Qin, Lady Yin, Lady Liu, Sun and Li. Straight from the SGZ and there is a general consensus that although it may be biased there is no text given higher historical accuracy. At least try to look it up for yourself before you open your mouth like a retard.