/rlg/ - Roguelike General

>Shared DCSS online account.
User: rlgrobin
Password: ownfault (or "robin" on CXC).
Remember, it's not fun if you didn't splat hard!

>New Demon update adds corpses and relic wraiths
demon.ferretdev.org/devblog/

>FAQ and What to Play
FAQ: pastebin.com/Q7K91Q34
What to Play?: pastebin.com/yfUKx35f

>Individual Game Pastas
pastebin.com/nXBycdgR

>Previous thread:

ded

what is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger.

dread ted
git shames

There he is. There he goes again. Look, everyone! He posted it once again! Isn't he just the funniest ogre around?! Oh my God.

I can almost see your pathetic overweight frame glowing in the dark, lit by your computer screen which is the only source of light in your Orc:2 room, giggling like a little ogre girl as you once again type "remove because it's not interesting" while adding some pseudo-intellectual filler you've thought of just to
lengthen your 2 (two) int post to justify a removal. Maybe you're such a disgusting Cr*wlDevDrone that you actually paid for a tavern pass, so you can just support the devil's team. Oh, and we all know your epic comments. The "redundant" "unneeded" "uninteresting" "boring" isn't it? I bet you imagine removing yourself every morning because you have a +3 M/F apt, laughing so hard as you post your "design ideas" which always includes removing content that you drop your Pandemonium Pizza on the floor, but it's ok, your mother will clean it up in the morning. Oh, that's right. Did I fail to mention? You live with an ogre mother. You are a fat fucking manlet ogre, she's probably so sick of you already. So sick of doing everything for you all goddamn day, everyday, for a grown ogre who spends all his time posting on tavern about what to nerf or remove. Just imagine this. She had you, and then she thought you were gonna be an ogre hunter or an ogre venom mage or something grand, and then you became a Cr*wlDevDrone. A pathetic american Cr*wlDevDrone. She probably cries herself to sleep everyday thinking about how imbalanced her M/F apt is and how she wishes she could just remove herself. She can't even try to talk with you because all you say is "LOL, too good pls nerf or remove" You've become a parody of your own self. And that's all you are. A sad little manlet ogre laughing in the dark 1x1 tile by himself as he prepares to indulge in the same old dance that he's done a million times now. And that's all you'll ever be.

Forever...

i think i broke something

>shitposting in his basement to compensate for his tiny M&F apt
Pottery.

Is there any hope at all for making cohesive stories in CDDA or is it seriously just a meme sandbox?
I have a hard time getting any kind of immersion when everything is wacky future shit and horrible monsters come out of the forest every 12 seconds, but mundane worlds can be rather boring and/or easy. If hordes weren't such a fucking nightmare I might not even complain.
Am I doing something wrong?

Okay, so the apt change is a bit annoying after all, it streamlines you into packing almost all xp into M&F, leaving you with less options for Lair - no Evo, no Throwing, shitty Dodging etc. Okawaru is still easy mode because you get +5 to skills and I imagine Trog is as strong as ever, but I wonder how previously mid tier ogre gods like Dithmenos or TSO would fare.

On the bright side you can get support spells like ozo armor pretty easily since your ER will be low or 0.

It's not a roguelike and I have no idea why it's on RogueBasin, but I feel obliged to state that Warsim is quite fun.

>cohesive stories
>immersion
you are posting in the rogue like general thread

why do you think anyone here cares about any of those things

how do i get good at slex

Become the amy's human toilet
Once she'll sit on your face with her sexy farting butt and activate it to cover you in manure, you'll finally see the way.

pinch more tummies, go vegan for a month.

I ask because, statistically, someone else has had similar thoughts. As for the issue in the first place: Cataclysm puts a lot of emphasis on simulationism. It's not exactly Nethack.

its easy as long as you dont stay in one spot
choose a life on the road and that can be your story

I sure wish these fucks actually play the game first before making these changes. Large clubs aren't even that good since it has no gimmicks unlike the other weapons except irrelevant additional damage that misses often. This should be common sense but it somehow isn't for them.

what is the best role and race though

>damage
>irrelevant
did you know that weapons with a higher damage stat make the enemy's hp go down faster
and enemies whose hp stat reaches 0 can't attack or kill you any more

>Large clubs aren't even that good since it has no gimmicks unlike the other weapons except irrelevant additional damage that misses often.
user...

alien transvestite

>what is a Triple sword's riposte
>what is an Executioner Axe when mobs are what you encounter 99% of the time
>what is a Bardiche that has so many ways it can be used it makes me puke that it needed to have almost the same accuracy to a GSC to balance

>what is a Triple sword's riposte
effectively just a damage-per-turn bonus on a weapon that is otherwise lower-damage, higher-xp-cost and 1000x rarer than a GC

>what is an Executioner Axe when mobs are what you encounter 99% of the time
a crutch for baddies who can't manage their positioning and don't know what corridors are

>what is a Bardiche that has so many ways it can be used it makes me puke that it needed to have almost the same accuracy to a GSC to balance
much weaker than you think it is, evidently
reaching is not exactly amazing except when you're abusing it with allies/flame clouds early game

>what are these that all require 26 skill for mindelay compared to GC/GSC's 18!!!/24 for less base damage
Also note that 3Sword and Exec Axe are exceedingly rare.
Giant clubs are _very_ good and you are bad for disagreeing.

>Axes
>a crutch for baddies

More like you're just too bad to use them. Axes are designed for players that are intelligent enough to skillfully determine mobs that can't kill them even if their 3x3 are filled in exchange for a drastic highest damage dealt per turn among all weapons since you hit more dudes. The more you can kill in a fewer turns than other weapon types, the greater you are rewarded. Deep Dwarf speedruns are good examples of this.

if the mobs can't kill you anyways then defeating them faster doesn't matter, you idiot

crawl is secretly just a shitty MMO game, it all comes down to pulling aggro effectively
if you're fighting big packs of enemies at once then you probably fucked that part up

So what does your non-sequitur have anything to do with Axes dealing the highest damage per turn among all weapons again you shitter?

because the player can only safely achieve that damage per turn against mobs that can't kill them, aka ones that DO NOT MATTER

the only situation where cleaving is actually better than fighting enemies single-file is packs of smiters

oh yeah also speedruns
but lmfao if you care about crawl speedruns

Then have you actually counted how many of these mobs that DO NOT MATTER appear in the game? Killing all/most of them in a fewer turns for a higher score is why Axes are so good and you're bad for thinking otherwise.

>>>>>>>>>>>score

>not trying to win as quickly as possible
t. 100k turn 3-rune gargoyles

should I branch off into earth magic and learn ironshot, or just keep going with fire magic + staves?

seriously though does anybody know why my view area has gotten so small due to all that extra black space
the map only covers part of the screen as well

Playing for speedrun records and playing to win are often at odds with each other.

If you originally meant to say that axes were better than GCs _for speedrunning_, you should have said that you were playing Meme Speedrun Crawl and not Actual Real Crawl Crawl.

But if you are actually a speedrunner I have no idea why you think reaching or bardiches is good.

Ah wait i fixed it.
I accidently changed my sidebar size

>going for a better score is always speedrunning

so this is how minotaurs see things... woah... really makes u think

Is there a way to get the dog to stop folowing you in cata after you complete the mission to bring it back to an npc.

I would have though the dog would start following them and leave you alone.

that's literally what your score is based on though?
if you are actually winning rather dying, the only major contributors to score are # of runes and turncount

playing for score is speedrunning, because speed is all the score is based on

Playing for a slightly better score and Winning often are mutually inclusive. Since we have no standards on which one is actually doing which, we're just have to assume for convenience that anyone with decent winrates on their 15 runers that (((doesn't take too long))) are doing it. Now what's a good minimum range, 15M? 16M? 17M? Whichever you pick, it is just silly to call that speedrunning.

Hm i wonder if animal antibiotics are safe for humans
I imagine its mostly the sane shit.

Oh well doesent matter i found some on a tough zombie just then.

Neat i spawned near a combat knife.
I can have one i wield and one on my rifle for when i get swarmed while shooting.

>wacky future shit
>horrible monsters
I don't understand how these are at odds with making cohesive stories. The game takes place in the future and part of the story is that a whole bunch of horrible monsters were released into the world.

Why are you against speedrunning in Crawl? I mean really, without resorting to the usual "I only play real roguelikes" and "2 int minotaur" tier comments. I'm not talking about going for the absolute top scores, just e.g. ~25M, which is doable on many combos even without stupid amounts of luck.

No, it's a meme sandbox. You're better off just writing a story from scratch if that's what you want.

Do your meme grinding then abuse exploits and explosives. Hordes ain't shit even years in when it's filled with T3 enemies.

You can look at the webtiles of many of the devs who make changes, the problem is they've played crawl too much if anything.

Dog whistle. It'll die the first time a spitter shows up so don't sweat it.

If they touched you you already fucked up. Enjoy losing your stamina until you can't get away from anything, get grab locked down to 0 dodge and 25 spd then your armor slowly chipped until you die.

I can't believe it, I only had to explore one more tile in Elf:2 and I could've gotten a statueform literally 9000 turns earlier. This is why I hate not pressing o

>christ, I can't open these doros for shit what's up with the rng
>Oh, I put 3 in forging and will instead of perception and will

>Get the shield of Fingolfin on 350'
Fug, what's a good sword and board build in sil?

Same as any other melee build. Don't bother taking Blocking if that's what you're asking.

>I like to think that when you can't see a tile it's always distortion agnes
>it gives you a sense of scale

So I guess I'm relying on song of slaying to kill shit later?

>quoting the holy psalms in a time of Undickery
Stop it, you brute!

That Troll butt is quite sexy.

Minotaur Pride Dungeonwide

>10-29 protection on 450'
>11-37 if I took blocking
Firmly erect

>besides we're not getting banished like that!
>I like saying it out loud because it increases the chances of it happening

No. Define "later". You will want finesse, and possibly momentum later on. In evasion you still want dodging, flanking, and maybe parry + riposte.

Oh, Force Lance. Such a potentially wonderful spell, with such horrible, horrible implementation.

Dealing the same damage as Iskenderun's MB is NOT a point in your favor, even if it is an upgrade from half that damage like you used to be set at, and the *chance* to knock an opponent back is functionally worthless due to its unreliability.

All I wanted was a spell to push my adversaries into water and lava.

I got this, lore keeper, lore master, crowd fighting, heavy armor use, and hardiness. I know floor drops and getting raw melee/evasion carry pretty much any melee build to 600' but I'm not all that sure how to build it past 600' where enemies are packing much better melee and evasion than you without stacking abilities. I'm not holding my breath on getting a great spear for focused attack+polearm mastery+knockback+controlled retreat either. I've done heavy armor focused attack+blocking but the penalties that piled up just meant I was back to a normal dude.

It was alright on hasted Sif characters back i nthe day though there was no reason to not just use OOD/iron shot

just train more melee. the only enemies that really have huge amounts of protection are Kemen and serpents, serpents are mostly just item destroyers. You can use a 2h weapon for them. Another option if you find it is to swap out for a sharp arte weapon for serpents, like angrist.

How good is angrist on just any build anyway? I've shied away from daggers pretty hard unless I find a poisoned one on a stabber build

It isn't that great, but it is useful for killing Serpents and Kemen which are both extremely annoying.

You can easily kill Morgoth with it with Subtlety, Rapid Attack and a big Song of Slaying bonus.

>Come down to a new floor
>Blow warning to suck everyone nearby into a killbox because no easy door tricking
>Get a sulrakuo, 3 giants, 6 easterling archers, uldor, 4 wargs, and like 8 easterling warriors
>Kill off all but uldor and the archers
>Fighting floor wrecking faggot for some 15 minutes while neither I, he, or his pack can kill each other
>Can't land decisive blows and didn't take throwing mastery so the spears aren't doing jack shit
>Give up and do the diagonal triangle attack at a doorway chipping him once every 6 or so turns
>He turns to flee
>tfw crit
Ahhhhhhnnn!

G-Guess he picked stuff up at some point...

What's a good two-weapon charge+flank+whirlwind meme?

There's no point in getting whirlwind attack because you can always just use an herb of rage instead and you're better off putting what will likely be 2000+ XP into more melee or evasion or even just taking an extra point of str or dex.

I just got farther than ever before in DCSS as a Gargoyle Fighter using a broad axe and large shield before I died in Pan. After running Okawaru for a while until I had good gear and than switching to Zin after I got my +9 holy broad axe from TSO I had completed every branch and gotten every single rune except for the 5 in Pan and the 1 in Slime.

I was making my way through Pan fine when I came on an island of lava where there were like 15 of those demons that use throw damnation and they were all packed on the island but they were the ones who couldn't fly so they would not leave the island and so to kill them I had to risk getting hit with like 4 damnation per turn because I had no ranged skills trained. I was worried there was one of the runes there that I would miss so I tried it while invisible and buffed up etc but I died.

If I had grinded more in Hell or the Abyss first and leveled up a ranged weapon I could have stayed just in range of 1 or 2 at a time and killed them that way. I guess if I want to win a 15 rune game without any cheating or save scrumming I just have to do the same but also train ranged weapons. It's a shame because before that point I had only got as far as beating the Tomb but had never ventured into hell, I was hoping for a 15 rune win.

Would you guys say it is possible to get all 5 runes in Pan as just a Melee tank w/ ranged weapons with Zin/TSO or is it necessary to have certain spells?

No you just needed to ignore Hellion Island. It is a fixed vault you can recognize and skip every time.

>the elona squaresoft/final fantasy music pack link doesn't work in the pastebins

The one time I wanted to relive nostalgia through music. The one time.

Elona pasta is old as shit.
Check the pasta in the Elona thread on /jp/

Okay thanks, two questions than. Is there ever a chance that there is a rune that would be placed there, such as the 5th Pan one that isn't protected by one of the 4 unique Pan Lords?

Also, aside from that are there any other instances in Pan or Slime in which a ranged weapon is needed if you don't train any spells? I got through the Tomb, Abyss, Zot and all of Hell fine without any ranged weapons but if I don't need it for Pan or Slime I'd rather not waste an hour grinding to level up a ranged skill before those areas.

There is a guaranteed demonic rune there, as is the case for a few other fixed Pan vaults (that are not unique panlord floors). None of the other ones are very dangerous though. You can easily do extended with no ranged and no offensive magic, especially as a Gargoyle. Try changing to TSO once you hit XL27.

Never fucking reply to me again unless you're contributing to the thread.

I'd like to switch to TSO for Pan but it seems like there are mutation-causing monsters on every floor there and if you don't find an amulet of mutation resistance or save up 10 cure mutation potions than without Zin you are risking getting fucked up with mutations that cripple you.

I really wish they made it so that there was a more reliable method to avoiding mutations. IMO it's needlessly annoying that amulets of mutation resistance are so rare that they only show up once every 4 or 5 games.

You mean amulets of obsoleteness.

Don't you ever reply to me or my son again.

>amulets of mutation resistance

what game?

...

Try using summon butterflies. You can always just swap to Zin to cure mutations after Pan, and then swap back to TSO. You keep most of your piety when you switch between good gods.

Should have played a halfling, they get intrinsic rMut (^:

Is this shit worth wasting a level up stat point on int?

Damn, I didn't even know that. That just reinforces my point. I'm not opposed to the mutation system but when the only way to avoid them outside of extremely uncommon mutations/item drops is to worship Zin that seems like it's pointlessly constraining the player.

Especially since the player only gains favor with Zin from killing abominations and other chaotic creatures. My impression was that those end up not being that common on Pan and many of the monsters there are just plain demons and so it forces you to choose between using Zins abilities or the mutation protection because if you use them the favor isn't replenished fast enough from the occasional chaotic creature to provide full protection.

You can in principle use summon butterflies to block enemies' line of fire, but you will still pick up some mutations anyway.

I don't get it. So is it 2^2, 2^3,2^3, etc so 4, 8, 16, 32 right?

Bane
• You receive a bonus to all skill rolls against a selected broad category of enemy.
• The categories are: Orc, Wolf, Spider, Troll, Wraith, Rauko, Serpent, Dragon.
• You need to have killed 4 enemies from the category to select it.
• When you reach 2n kills of your chosen enemy, the bonus increases to +n.

You should be getting a couple int anyway to protect against drain.

Never mind I just fault into a gigantic pack of various orcs and wights on D:5

It's hard to tell what the fuck is going on sometimes.

...

The only game I actually like playing in ASCII is dwarf fortress.

post the other one

Jesus christ. comes with half a crit built in. Honestly not sure if I should replace my longsword with it.

Yes, so you can usually expect to get up to +7 against raukar (You want to take Rauko-bane)

You'd rather use tiles than ascii for pcb?

You will probably want to just go for 2 weapon fighting, offhand deathblades are good.

Coming soon to a Demon game near you

Is stealth viable late-game in DCSS? If I have around 17 or 18 Dex on a fighter build and train stealth up to lvl 27 and slip into leather armor does it work most of the time in places like Hell and Pan or does it only work there if you also have massive dex and multiple pieces of stealth-boosting equipment.

angrist is great for taking multiple sils or killing V because of the armor piercing and the fact that you are guaranteed to break a weapon while trying for 3-sil, so it's nice to have a secondary siltaker

I don't even know what pcb is m8.

I've only tried DF, DCSS, Adom, unreal world, Angband, CDDA, DoomRL and Prospector.