Wouldn't a socialist society be even more repressive against antisocial people than the present consumerist-capitalist one? Just think about this (presuming it were "real" socialism). Presently, your work at the office depends on two things; your performance, and your ability to follow basic social etiquette. Your boss can fire you, as can HR in cases where you're not getting along with other employees and giving them trouble, etc.
Now imagine that suddenly your boss is gone and the workplace is owned collectively by the employees. Stacey in the cubicle has a girlfriend who's down on her luck and looking for a new job and she thinks you're a creep anyway and believes your white male privilege will help you get a new job effortlessly. Besides, you need to be taught a lesson about what it's like to have real struggles just like all the people your ancestors oppressed. Stacey tells this to Chad and he agrees that it would be better if you were gone.
Chad thinks you're kind of a stiff. After all, you're usually quiet at the meetings, you keep to yourself, don't talk about sports with the guys at lunch break. He thinks you don't fit the company culture and Stacey's friend (who happens to be single) is a better fit. At lunch, instead of discussing UFC, Chad approaches Tyrone about getting rid of you.
Tyrone says you're a wack ass cracker because when the two of you met, you didn't know how to dap. You're quiet, Tyrone remarks; you might even be a homo. He also suspects that you might be a racist because one time you ratted him out for smoking ganja in the toilet.
At the next monthly employee plenum, your termination is proposed. You are accused of sexual harassment of coworkers, rudeness, and racism. It is decided that you are to be fired with no benefits in a vote that is essentially a popularity contest. Stacey's friend Samantha, who graduated from her local community college with a degree in African Basket Weaving and English, is hired immediately to fill the senior position that you spent years to reach.
All this happened because you couldn't make small talk about UFC.
Pt. 2
Carter Wilson
>It is decided that you are to be fired with no benefits in a vote that is essentially a popularity contest
You have cut to the heart of the issue with a socialist society. In the absence of capital incentive for being skilled at your job, every single decision of importance boils down to a popularity contest. At least the way it is now, if you're a genius you can get away with being unpopular.
Adam Cook
Is this really how communist workplaces would be structured? (Serious question)
Blake Anderson
This is so ignorant I can't find a word for it.
Nathaniel Russell
Theoretically, the workplace would be collectively owned. There would still be a leadership structure, but the leaders might be elected by a vote from all employees. At least the top level management like executive officers.
Julian Cox
>Now imagine that suddenly your boss is gone and the workplace is owned collectively by the employees. You're assuming that the boss is better than your hypothetical situation. The boss gets to pull all this bullshit without the hurdles and racebaiting Chad has to.
>At the next monthly employee plenum, your termination is proposed. You are accused of sexual harassment of coworkers, rudeness, and racism. It is decided that you are to be fired with no benefits in a vote that is essentially a popularity contest. Same shit can happen more easily with a boss.
>Stacey's friend Samantha, who graduated from her local community college with a degree in African Basket Weaving and English, is hired immediately to fill the senior position that you spent years to reach. That firm was shit, and they decided that being around people they like to talk to is more important than being productive and having a high income. Also Chad and Stacey go through a breakup and destroy the firm from the inside out.
> In the absence of capital incentive for being skilled at your job Most people do it for income incentive, while investing very little of their income on capital investment though.
> if you're a genius you can get away with being unpopular If you're a genius you go be part of a firm that would rather work with productive geniuses rather than a party firm.
You're going to ask why productivity matters in "communism" and it's because it's lower stage socialism, where wages and differential income can exist. Marx wrote a paragraph in his Critique of the Gotha Programme on it where he dismantles the idea of equality as bourgeois. If there was higher stage communism, it really would not matter a fuck, and you could be self employed or do mostly whatever the fuck you wanted as long as you were at least somewhat productive and not harmful.
Jaxson Cooper
>Most people do it for income incentive, while investing very little of their income on capital investment though.
Well that's objectively a mistake. Obtaining land and then breeding heirs to inherit it is literally the only way to ensure prosperity.
Andrew Rivera
Wouldn't a democratic society be even more repressive against antisocial people than a totalitarian one? Just think about this (presuming it were "real" democracy). Presently, your lot in life depends on two things; your servitude, and your ability to follow the dictator. The dictator can kill you, as can oligarchs in cases where you're not getting along with other peasants and giving them trouble, etc.
Now imagine that suddenly your dictator is gone and the government is run collectively by the peasants. Stacey next door has a girlfriend who's down on her luck and looking for a new place and she thinks you're a creep anyway and believes your white male privilege will help you get a new job effortlessly. Besides, you need to be taught a lesson about what it's like to have real struggles just like all the people your ancestors oppressed. Stacey tells this to Chad and he agrees that it would be better if you were gone.
Elijah Russell
But it's the capitalist wage labor consumerist model. Most workers only own enough capital to sustain them to the end of their lives, the capital is basically spent on retirement and not real enduring capital, and only leave a modest inheritance.
Isaac Miller
Chad thinks you're kind of a stiff. After all, you're usually quiet at the meetings, you keep to yourself, don't talk about sports with the guys at lunch break. He thinks you don't fit the society and Stacey's friend (who happens to be single) deserves your stuff. At lunch, instead of discussing UFC, Chad approaches Tyrone about getting rid of you.
Tyrone says you're a wack ass cracker because when the two of you met, you didn't know how to dap. You're quiet, Tyrone remarks; you might even be a homo. He also suspects that you might be a racist because one time you ratted him out for smoking ganja in the toilet.
At the next election, your execution is proposed. You are accused of sexual harassment of coworkers, rudeness, and racism. It is decided that you are to be killed and your estate seized in a vote that is essentially a popularity contest. Stacey's friend Samantha, who graduated from her local community college with a degree in African Basket Weaving and English, moves into your flat that you spent years to earn.
All this happened because you couldn't make small talk about UFC.
Christian Adams
no never has been never will be there are already socialised workplaces there called union jobs and the union is there to protect the worker from such a scenario you give up an hour of pay a month and the union collectively bargains for you so the employer has to spend the profits the business makes on its labor force rather than a new solid gold jet for the CEO so you the worker get thing like health care a pension and vacation days, on a grander scale unions have gotten us all a lot like labor laws and national holidays and minimum wage and in the US social security everyone should join a union wilt the "right to work aws" getting shot down left and right it should become easier
Wyatt Flores
Co-ops are more socialist and have fewer conflicts of interest.
Jaxon Ramirez
Okay how about this scenario: You work at Chad's company. You're the best and brightest employee But Chad doesn't like you and it's his company, so he fires you. Or Chad's nephew wants your job, so he fires you. Or Chad wants to fuck you and threatens to fire you if you don't let him. Oh who am I kidding? When has anything resembling any of that happened in a capitalist society. No you're right. The purely hypothetical socialist society you just made up would certainly have all those problems you just gave it
Luis Murphy
"Privilege" probably wouldn't exist under socialism
Nigga you just described liberalism, not socialism. That shit can happen today!
Collective autism is the reason why Asians succeed in the workplace but rarely rise past middle management -- they can't connect to their superiors and are perceived as insufficiently charismatic.
Landon Lewis
In this case Chad has to make a cost-benefit analysis. On the one hand, he can fire you and get rid of an employee he dislikes; on the other hand, by getting rid of you he would lose an (hypothetically) outstandingly productive employee. Training a replacement would also eat into his profits. In a collective workplace environment, because no single worker-owner is saddled with the full responsibility of running the company, no one even gives a second thought before actively conspiring to get rid of you just because they decided you're a douchebag after you got an extra helping of fries at the company barbecue.
Brayden Green
How do I level up my charisma stats?
Jace Williams
You know that Sanders believes in social democracies as practiced in Scandinavia and western Europe, right? He doesn't advocate for communism, he doesn't advocate for the state owning every industry. He's been out of the race for months now, you have zero incentive to spread this kind of nonsense.
I'm not gonna read your shit if you can't even get the basics right.
Ayden Ramirez
Bimp
Aiden Butler
OP didn't describe Communism or State Capitalism. OP's scenario is a pure social democracy.
Jason Rivera
>that image "muh freedom = freedom to purchase brands of what i want" Fucking christ, Zizek was right.
Gabriel King
No, Bernie is literally a communist as evidenced by his support for the Sandinistas and the Cubans and the fact he twinned his Vermont town with a Soviet town and even had a fucking Soviet flag in his office.
He only pretends to be a social democrat in modern age because the American public would never elect an open communist.
Blake Hernandez
Any actual evidence for him being a stalinist?
Angel Mitchell
Literally observe people and how they interact. Be comedic but tasteful. Follow the letter of the rules (mostly) but make it clear that you're here for amusement. Smirk, don't smile. Don't, under any circumstances, even remotely imply you have a powerlevel.
Logan Johnson
Stalinist? I said communist.
Leo Walker
Keeping a soviet flag in your office is something only tankies (stalinists) do.
Luis Howard
...no, Social democracy still involves capitalism and therefore private ownership of most companies. There would still be a capitalist-style hierarchy in palce
Jacob Taylor
in the UK if this happened you'd be able to sue Chad for unlawful dismissal
US employment law sounds terrible
Sebastian White
OP has desribed democratic socialism (not to be confused with social democracy). It's literally the socialism that hasn't been tried before but is supposed to be good. OPPY just proved it's not good through flawless reasoning.
Ethan Morales
>UK is so cucked you literally don't have the choice of who to employ in your business
Lucas Hill
>in a collective workplace environment, because no single worker-owner is saddled with the full responsibility So if you're a co-owner then everything falls apart because there's no single owner with the full responsibility.
Anthony Cooper
How would you, an autist, even get accepted to a party company in the first place?
Logan Adams
There are still elected managers or contracted professional managers who run the enterprise's day to day activities. Precisely because of this, the employee owners would be totally indifferent to the firm's activities. They eouldn't give a shit if you were fired and wouldn't notice the temporary dip in productivity left in your wake. Nor would they notice how the company would be affected by the loss of a good employee. In collectivism, everyone is expendible and invisible.
Cameron Baker
You were hired before the workers' revolution by your benevolent boss who saw your potential and decided to give you a shot.
Logan Nguyen
It's called "bait" You should lurk more
Aiden Mitchell
>The boss gets to pull all this bullshit without the hurdles and racebaiting Chad has to. Yes, he has the POWER to do it, but the Boss is specifically trained and employed BECAUSE he is not swayed by a stacy as much as a Chad is, his whole purpose is to provide money and to ensure a streamlined workplace because if he doesn't he will be replaced, that means he cannot get caught up in popularity contests like this. If you're a hard worker and mind your own business, he would have no reason to fire you, and if he did anyways, he would have to either answer to corporate or to your lawyers, possibly both.
Xavier Gutierrez
Chad could have just as easily never opened the position at all so it makes no difference to you and if he wants to blow his inheritance by making stupid business decisions that is his choice.
You don't need the government to step in, we already have all the solutions.
1: market forces, his business would lose money due to his incompetence, his competitors who don't do these things will take the market share and you can work for them 2: basic laws against fraud, if he neglected to mention you had to perform sexual favors in your job description that is clear fraud 3: the 2nd amendment in case things escalate 4: true American values, if 99% of the population were good citizens things like this would rarely happen
