Mfw discovering Taoism

I'm not OP buddy

I started liking Taoism a lot too when I first heard about 'wu wei.' I'm not really into some of the other shit I found, but wu wei really spoke to me.

You can discover the tao for yourself, but it can never be taught.

Philosophical taoism is actually a really neat idea. I've only read the Tao Te Ching and about half the Chuang Tzu so far, but the ideas within make a lot of sense. The basic idea is that success is measured in a long, peaceful life, and virtue is best reflected in not stirring up shit (as that gets in the way of living a long, peaceful life). The whole thing actually seems Stirnerian to me, especially the bit about being unwilling to pluck a single hair from your head (and thus being unwilling to harm yourself to maintain dominion, and thus unwilling to hurt or tyrannize others with power).

I'll definitely be checking out Lieh Tzu next and the other Taoist works later. I may even try alternate translations of works I've already read.

>being unwilling to pluck a single hair from your head for the kingdom.

I accidentally cut myself off there.

>The whole thing actually seems Stirnerian to me
If a man is crossing a river
And an empty boat collides with his own skiff,
Even though he be a bad-tempered man
He will not become very angry.
But if he sees a man in the boat,
He will shout at him to steer clear.
If the shout is not heard, he will shout again,
And yet again, and begin cursing.
And all because there is somebody in the boat.
Yet if the boat were empty.
He would not be shouting, and not angry.

It's not Stirnerian, unless you concede that the ego as the mother of all spooks.

OP, don't be a silly nu-male.

>See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in Him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
Colossians 2:8-10

If you can empty your own boat
Crossing the river of the world,
No one will oppose you,
No one will seek to harm you.

I had an existential crisis and basically fell into a state of Cartesian scepticism for a long time (pro-tip: it's not as cool as it sounds) Started reading up on Bhuddism and I feel a lot happier now

>not being a greeko-bhuddist gnostipagan.

/thread

Literally all of this can be applied just as easy to Christianity

Don't be a silly christcuck

That's a big sword

I really wish people would actually learn what a spook is. It's not synonymous with abstraction. It means any abstraction you attempt to place ahead of your own well-being, which the Taoist thought of the Tao-Te-Ching and the Chuang Tzu both seem to agree would be a silly thing to do, since they both place personal well-being and longevity as paramount matters of concern (especially considering both likely include works of Yangist philosophy, since neither the Tao-Te-Ching nor the Chuang Tzu are likely entirely the works of the philosopher's they're attributed but instead anthologies of work relating to those philosophers).

You're expected to be self-less in Taoist thought, but that doesn't seem to mean what it means in western thought, and Stirner would probably agree with the Taoist idea that pursuing wealth and glory is ultimately not in your best interests, and the early Taoists would likely agree that throwing away your life for "higher" ideals is silly.

>melding all those with Gnosticism
>implying Gnosticism isn't already synecetic enough to embody all of them

>tfw I identify with taoist philosophy but am too lustful and weak-willed to commit to practise
That being said, I've been learning a little chinese and hope to visit the 4 mountains one day.

4u

pfffft
how basic are you kid?
take the redpill

>God Tier
Zen Buddhism, Taoism, Hermeticism, Shamanism
>Top Tier
Mahayana Buddhism, Confucianism, Neoplatonism
>Great Tier
Theravada Buddhism, Gnosticism, Rosicrucianism
>Good Tier
Hinduism, Kabbalah, Hellenic Paganism
>Okay Tier
Orthodox Christianity, Sufism, Scientific Materialism
>Shit Tier
Catholicism, Protestantism, Sunni Islam
>Kill Yourself
Jehovah's Witnesses, Shia Islam, Rabbinic Judaism, Satanism, Norse Paganism

>Satanism
what if it's theistic satanism or luciferianism?

none of that lavey shit

Luciferianism is essentially an offshoot of Gnosticism and doesn't venerate Satan per se so you can put it up there. Theistic satanism is better than Laveyan satanism but worshipping satan is still fucking retarded. If you're gonna follow the left hand path just follow Thelema or something

>Thelema
Most elitist bastards on the earth I swear. Can't have a conversation with them on /x/ without them spouting buzzwords from their texts and expecting you to understand them with no preface.

Guys, please, can you say Daoism?

>say
If you're not vocalizing it as 'dao' then you're doing it wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's okay to spell it with the 't'.

I just wanted to point out that Daoism doesn't end with the Zhuangzi, the actual religion is full of exoteric and even theistic bullshit.

But Taoism is more concerned with reorganizing society; community over the individual, starting with the individual. Early Taoists would approve of an individual sacrificing his life for the basic good of a larger community because it is also essentially otherworldly.

It's also quite anti-hierarchical, and I'd wager sacrificing your life for the community would not be encouraged, because this would fall under that whole thing about benevolence and righteousness not being something sought after. The Tao-Te-Ching focuses mostly on the ruler, and seems to be of the mind that the ruler that governs least governs best. The Chuang Tzu seems to be focused more on the individual and the general message seems to be "don't stir up shit, and live a long, peaceful life." Both seem mostly concerned with individual well-being, which social well-being is a vital component of, something Stirner would agree with.

Have you read the Ego and Is Own? If you haven't, you should. I'd wager you'd notice similarities in thought, and I think philosophical Taoism is helpful to get a less hostile conception of how a Stirnerian ideal could take shape.

Stirner it's worth noting didn't share Nietzsche's hatred for otherworldly essences, he just figured that all ideals should be ultimately utilized as tools to your betterment, rather than you used as tools to better them.

I'm aware. It's a rich religious and philosophical tradition. Taoism also didn't start with the Chuang Tzu either, he was initially considered part of a separate philosophical tradition from the Lao Tzu, and there are teachers from multiple disciplines that are now considered "Taoist" (Yang springs readily to mind, as a rather egoistic thinker that was once a completely separate tradition competing with Mohism). Modern Taoism has also syncretized heavily with Chinese folk religion.

But since we're westerners that weren't brought up in the tradition, we're in the position of luxury where we can take what wisdom we please from it and ignore what we doesn't please.

>The Chuang Tzu seems to be focused more on the individual and the general message seems to be "don't stir up shit, and live a long, peaceful life.
And yet the Chaung Tzu is also highly entangled with politics and governance. Keep in mind that both that and Tao te ching were written in times of chaos and sought to rationalize and alleviate this chaos.
>The Tao-Te-Ching focuses mostly on the ruler, and seems to be of the mind that the ruler that governs least governs best
I would argue that this is because of an assumption of goodness in human nature, which is essentially the Tao. In acting with the Tao, undisturbed by dual concepts and desires, people and thus society will act in an idealized manner. I would argue that this is against, or not entirely aligned with, Stirner because Taoist theology is heavily entangled with concepts of empire and the codes of Confucianism.
Keep in mind that unlike philosophy, Taoism is a religion and in reading key texts you're not getting a real representation. Taoism in practice was heavily influenced by Confucianism, folk religion, and Buddhism.

>I would argue that this is because of an assumption of goodness in human nature, which is essentially the Tao. In acting with the Tao, undisturbed by dual concepts and desires, people and thus society will act in an idealized manner. I would argue that this is against, or not entirely aligned with, Stirner because Taoist theology is heavily entangled with concepts of empire and the codes of Confucianism.

My impression is that it's arguing from a standpoint of assumption that the state and hierarchy are a historical inevitability, that need to be curbed in their excesses.

>Keep in mind that unlike philosophy, Taoism is a religion and in reading key texts you're not getting a real representation. Taoism in practice was heavily influenced by Confucianism, folk religion, and Buddhism.

Yes, but both of these works precede Taoism as a formal religion, and it was only later that they were claimed as part of that tradition, taken in their historical context they're anthologies that stand fairly well on their own. I don't need to do the weird shit to my junk that Taoist sexual practices call for to appreciate the works of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu.

I still maintain that Stirner's thoughts and early Taoist thoughts aren't all that far removed, just from entirely separate historical contexts.

Genesis 1, the Creation is very good.

whoa

In many forms of gnosticism Yawveh is a false god. The creator from genesis is too judgemental and emotional to be an unmoved mover.

I go for Nietzche and Stirner for my relief.

But I'll definetely give some Eastern philosophy a thought.

>Everyone is lying but us
>Yes even religions older than ours
Sandnigger theology

The East and the West can be made into one as simple as study of both. God is not just the Abrahamic God, nor is God ever going to be confined to just the Abrahamic God or the Eastern God when they are the same God.

Not all Gnostics will agree with this, somehow, in the Yhwh, the transcendental qualities of God Being mixed with the demiurge's anger and delusion, both going under the same name, most likely due to the people who have edited the scriptures.

>demiurge
As much as I love the cathars I can't stand the idea of any entity being of any capacity close to God.

>implying confucianism wasn't just a genius way to indoctrinate the chinese into loving the government

what is that image from?

one of junji ito's works
don't bother they're all a waste of time

...

thanks, user.

>I would argue that this is because of an assumption of goodness in human nature, which is essentially the Tao. In acting with the Tao, undisturbed by dual concepts and desires, people and thus society will act in an idealized manner.

I think you have misunderstood the Dao. It is not human life or the goodness of human nature at all. The Dao is not at all the moral good, as after all "When the Dao is forgotten, Goodness remains. When Goodness is forgotten, Kindness remains, etc. Etc."

You have to bw delusional or blind not to see numerous New Testament evidence of Jesus being the same god as God of Old Testament.

Any other Dudeists in the house?
It's basically a modern interpretation of Taoism without the medicine or metaphysics with a bit of Epicurean thought sprinkled on top. Oh and it's based on The Big Lebowski.

Why do people shun Taoist metaphysics? It's fun.

>calls OP nu-male
>worships the most nu-male looking of all messiahs

topheh

Protip: only /pol/fags unironically use the word 'nu-male'.

Do everyone a favor and refrain from swinging around your professional tip

I find labelling yourself as dudeist is a bit redundant. Although I definitely agree with it's message.

...

>Christ
>nu-male

t. nu-male

I despise /pol/ btw.

This. Taoist history is filled with thousands of Taoist alchemists accidentally killing themselves because they were experimenting with trying to find a formula for immortality and testing it on themselves.

>Confucianism
>Literally bullshitted togeather from disparate sources to foster compliant populace
> Top Tier Philosophy

>Snake was the Satan
>Devil in the Hebrew Bible
>Conception of the Devil before 150BC

...

>westerns like "eastern religion" because no muh God
>find out there's magic potions and ghosts and shit

Really? I found Ass Akira spoke to me more.

>literally follows the teachings of a based Kongzi who followed the example of based Duke of Zhou in creating the perfect society, a social harmony between heaven and earth
>not top tier
You're just mad because you failed your civil exams.

Move Theravada down and replace it with Zoroastrianism.

Paganism is not nearly as dualistic as Christianity. What is this bullshit?

Butthurt Yangist detected

It's not the lack of Yahweh, it's that the system is coherent and based on doctrine and logic rather than divine command.

Proof of Jesus never existing makes Christianity null and void. Proof of Confucius never existing does not make Confucianism null and void.