Why do people assume capitalism is a perfect or is the best or is the more desirable system?

why do people assume capitalism is a perfect or is the best or is the more desirable system?

>best system
>has a minor crisis every 7 years
>currently is collapsing
wow, best and perfect system.

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It's flawed but that doesn't mean it isn't better than the alternatives

because it rewards people for doing better and outsmarting the next person. improving humans well being such as finding medicines and getting that medicine to people for cheap.

unlike socialism that doesn't give any incentive to do better in life, thus dragging society down in long term due to not discovering anything new and advance.

that's a huge generalization though. There are forms of socialism that work quite well. For instance a business run by it's employees. China's socialism seems to be working okay for them. Sweden is the most socialist country in terms of equality of wages and they are doing just fine. It really depends on how things are managed. I think it's hard to say X is the best system for X country because there are many factors that determine what is the best system for each and every country. There are some countries that are "too socialist" and some that are "too capitalist". It isn't really black and white like many people make it to be.

>china today
>socialism
you're so funny user

To be honest modern China has a great deal of similarities with Nazi Germany's economy.

Since the German one died in war and not actual economics, we will have to see how the Chinese one plays out.

If they are top dog in 2050 then yeah... Their version of capitalism is better.

economists agree that a mixture of socialism and capitalism is by far the best system. See: the U.S., nordic countries, China, etc.

...

>implying any state in the world actually runs capitalism

Politics usually involves clusturfucking 2 or 3 different economical/political ideals mixed in with incompetence and corruption. So no, you'll never see pure capitalism, or pure anything, not even close.

>socialism doesn't give any incentive to do better in life
From my limited understanding of leftist theory, much emphasis is put on the idea that money, although being an excellent motive, is not the only motive. People will innovate and create because they want to do so, not because they will starve if they do not. I think that it'd be interesting to see whether this would actually happen or not

>a mixture of socialism and capitalism
How will this work when the means of production are different within the two systems?

You're right, but watered down capitalism still counts as a form of 'capitalism' imo. What would you say we live in otherwise?

They have no regulations at all (look at the pollution) and are corrupt as fuck
they are some kind of mixture of anarcho capitaliam and a weird of king of the hill battle for the best political position combined with police brutality and persecution of christians and other minorities

This china is superior meme needs to go away

China is fucked. Sure the economy is going well (largely due to the capitalism based other economies in the world that trade with them) but so many people have horrible lives there. There's little freedom and you're pretty much forced to do what your told or starve. Sure GDP rates sound good but quality of life in China is not

>he thinks America is still a capitalist nation

Cold war

real innovators and geniuses don't make it for the money you mong

im not saying a viable alternative to capitalism exists tho, most people are subhumans that will do nothing unless you promise them material stuff

fuck off commie

>currently is collapsing
Way to assume your conclusion, retard.

he could just be a capitalist that thinks that self-reflection and critique is a positive thing

just because you believe in something doesn't mean you cant be critical of it lmao

explain to me how it's not currently collapsing.

explain how it is, retard

the dynamics of the system.
the system stopped working in the 70's when outsourcing and computers were invented, except they invented credit.

plus there's others big issues such as natural resources.
most natural resources will be depleted in less than 20 years if consumption isn't stopped.

you can't sustain infinite growth in a finite planet.
also, global pollution in the enviroment and global warming.

we hit the physical limits.
unless you wanna kill all humans for the year 2050, capitalism will have to end.

t. college freshman

>explain to me how it's not currently collapsing.
It's your shitty bait post, asshole. Defend your premise, and then I'll debate you. Until then, you're not worth the effort.

When was the last famine in your country? The last civil war?

explain to me how do you solve the end of cheap resources.

even if we invent space mining, that's just another step towards post scarcity.

currently prices of everything are going down, from clothes to computers.

currently we have an oversaturation of production while having a decrease of consumption.

most thirld world nations can't sustain first world rates of consumption and first world nations are too endebted.

see
>capitalism is perfect
>infinite growth in a finite planet

>the system stopped working in the 70's
False. Opinions aren't facts, especially dumb opinions.

>most natural resources will be depleted in less than 20 years if consumption isn't stopped.
Demonstrably false. Science is a thing. You can't contradict scientific fact by fiat.

>you can't sustain infinite growth in a finite planet.
>also, global pollution in the enviroment and global warming.
Slippery slop fallacy. Just because a system might fail in the future does not mean it is failing now or will in the lifetimes of our children's children's children.

>we hit the physical limits.
Wut? Is this some meme you invented.

Bullshit
Dino times were 10 degrees warmer than now and life thrived
And people are shitting theor pants because 2 degrees in 100 years
Do you realise how mich land there is in russia and canada

Also water vapor is a more potent greenhouse gas than co2 and until now we only now of a correlation of co2 and temperatur not a causation
Also warmer water means it can hold less gas (e.g. co2) and that would explain the correlation

In summary: climate changes all the time and life survived in a lot warmer circumstances and humans being the most adaptable species would make it work
And we don't have enough knowledge and data to say who is to blame
(Btw. The poles on mars are melting faster than ours and the sun is getting warmer because of increased aolar activity)

So stop with the fear mongering and spreading of globalist and communist nonsense

>false
not my opinions, richard d. wolf and santiago niño becerra hold this opinion, both are economics with PHD.

>false
natural resources aren't infinite.
>science
science can't invent new resources, it has to use what is available.

>does not mean is failing now
is failing and collapsing now, read about santiago niño becerra.

>is this some meme
acording to most pesimist and even some realistic stimations, we will hit the physical limit of science in a few years or decades at best.

physics is already solved and no new particles have been found in the last two years.

>he's not aware of the state of pollution in the enviroment
we're fucked bro.

not just from global warming, but from pollution in the enviroment.

>explain to me how do you solve the end of cheap resources

they would get more expensive, obviously. at which point consumers and producer would be forced to explore viable alternatives

socialism (which I presume is where you're going with this) has benefits and cons. but it only works in small homogenous countries. the answer to problems in the USA is not more free shit and importing the 3rd world in through the front door

I'm not even a socialist.

you can't sustain a first world comsuption rates if africa, latinoamerica, china and india start consuming at the same rate of first world people.

also, how do first world people will compete with much cheaper thirld world wages?

big problems, and capitalism has no answer for them.

Not even a commie or sucialist.

Citing isolated authorities is not an argument.

Don't change your arguments mid-discussion.

Stop assuming your conclusion.

Stop using specious and pseudo-scientific arguments.

>Step up your game or we're done here, retard.

>if africa, latinoamerica, china and india start consuming at the same rate of first world people

well, that's never going to happen so you can stop worrying your pretty little head

>how do first world people will compete with much cheaper thirld world wages

by using incentives like massively lower corporate taxes and the threat of tariffs to punish companies that ship jobs overseas

I'm telling you they're not my opinions, but the opinions from some economics, I gave you two names so you can google them and see they're not arguments I made from my ass.

except they're developing.

nah bro, you can't compete with china in terms of cheaper wages, they have like 1 billion farmers ready to work for slave wages, some even work just to eat.

you can't compete with slave wages.

this

If you are in a class of 20 people, half the people got F's and half the people got A's the teachers says, we will just average out everyones grade and gives all 20 students C's do you think anyone is going to try to get A's anymore?
Slowly over time the grades will sink down further and further because, hey i can just ride the good grade of someone else.

Thats how socialism and communism work, im a business and economics major. if you don't understand how this works you are retarded and probably still 19

China is not socialism you tard, it's communism and the only reason why China is doing ok is because of other Capitalist societys handing work over to china for cheap labor, THATS WHAT CAPTIALISM IS. you find the cheapest and most efficient way to make something to get it to the people ALOT cheaper.

btw some of those companies aren't even american, they have no incentive to move jobs to america because they're not american companies.

there's too much people already without jobs and too much people willing to work for slave wages.

>China is Communist
>I'm an economics major

I still don't get why being critical of capitalism, because it has some big problems, like really big problems, means you're a commie.

we need to stop consumption or basically kill all human life in 50 years because of global pollution.

You can;t make a statement like

>the system stopped working in the 70's

and support it by citing a couple isolated authorities. You actually have to make an argument (or at least cut-and-paste theirs) if you intend to have an adult conversation.

Not to mention, you seem to concede that the rest of your arguments are complete bullshit, as I've pointed out twice.

This'll be your last (You), kid. Hope you enjoyed them.

its the best of the current hyper-materialist systems available, better than communism for sure and can very easily adopt all the good parts of socialism while leaving the nasty bits behind.

then why is Apple asking Foxconn to research the possibility of producing stuff in the US then? not being able to compete with Chinese labor prices is in no way indicative of the failures of capitalism

>currently is collapsing
no it's been slowly going toward socialism, thats why it's "collapsing" you are getting a glimpse of socialism. what this user said is correctcaptalism can leave the slackers very poor, so they need government intervention once in awhile to help the useless people of their country out. they may not say it like that do to being PC but thats what it is...

youtube.com/watch?v=qcbptH-LLjs
here's a video of richard d wolff where he explains this argument.

if you're interested, the video will explain it.

solve this problem: how do you compete with non american companies that use slave labour?

sure, you can get apple, but apple isn't the only company in the economy.

You have a point, but current ecological concerns will make the transition towards a system where there's not the same rate of consumption today.

>but ecology can suck dicks
planned obsolence and fashion will have to go by example.

>solve this problem: how do you compete with non american companies that use slave labour?

you don't. that's why you can't buy a television made in the USA anymore. but what you can do is set up tax incentives to keep what domestic production you do have, and get rid of regulations that prevent new production from ever beginning.

you're not really providing any viable solutions to these imaginary scenarios you're projecting either. just ranting about Malthusian crap and normal commie babble you usually get from college freshman. but hey, what can you expect from a poster sharing youtube videos of a fucking marxist economist who wrote some of Obama's books

in the U.S. the government is getting involved and fucking it all up. they are helping out big corporations that outsource everything, and then every mom and pop shop that comes up they tax it heavy and make sure certain permits or liscenses are hard to get.
This is because they want a socialist/communist society which puts big corporations and government on the very top and ordinary citizens on the bottom.
it's not hard to see that too much government intervention is not good, but not enough isn't good either.

so, you're not really addresing my points, but simply insulting me?

pretty childish of your part.

you haven't addressed the global pollution problem and discarding it as if it wasn't real.

bro, there's even shit like 3D printers, imagine manufacturing when cheap shops can 3D prints cars or some shit in africa.

the solution to the global pollution problem is to get China and India to play nicely, but you're a fucking Marxist idiot who's too naive to even realize his entire worldview is hellbent on taking the West down so of course the US should be the ones cutting emissions and production to prevent MUH CLIMATE CHANGE

yeah too bad the government is pusing toward socialism.. too much socialism will lead to a country being 3rd world

I'm not even a marxists or commie, fucking retard, stop projecting.

I still wonder why the only alternatives are capitalism or socialism.

how bout putting the enviroment or science first or some shit like that.

this is true
poo in the loo

Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion
-Peter Drucker

new to all of this, and want to move from youtube documentaries to books.

any recomendation?

i also wonder why its always democratic and republican

>putting the enviroment or science first
you must forget there are poor people that don't care to educate themselfs in environment or science. They destroy the earth and then hope the government and people will take care of them and thats where socialism comes into play. Take a walk in any ghetto, you will see trash everywhere, oil left on the curb and parking lots. NONE of those people are scientist but yet for some odd reason people seem to always want to help them. So instead of putting our countries capital toward making the environment and sciences better all of our efforts are going into helping the useless lazy people.

>grow up in a capitalist country
>assume its the best
>oh x doesn't work oh y won't work either

Ever think that we are just told its the best like how America is amazing great country?

ITT: people try and argue about Socialism without reading any theory

I'm not even a commie but come on

these debates are being held purely on memes

...

>haha, reading books and learning is for neckbeards!!!

do you think we should cut off welfare such as food stamps, housing, and other welfare benfits and put that money toward finding better renewable energy? subsidize companys building renewable energy and looking for ways to make the environment better while providing jobs or should we just keep giving money to the poor and useless?

I do think the welfare system is not a good idea because of niggers, maybe instead of giving welfare make more jobs, I dunno.

just how you pop in and go about it

>China is communist
Opinion discarded

From what i had been studying (i may be wrong), the reason Capitalism is a little bit unstable is because our "money" isn't backed up by gold and they just keep printing it like crazy. When that happens, the economy crumbles sooner or later (like it happened in France a century or two ago. Germany decades ago. Centuries ago to Rome & Greece ). And since all currency in earth is backed up by dollars, we all get fucked when something happens around the world

Still, i prefer "fucked up" capitalism over Communism or socialism any day

Crony-capitalism is not true capitalism.

The crisis are caused by a failure of government, not a failure if capitalism.

It's beaten all the others. By Darwinian standards, it's objectively the best system until a better one comes along.

China is communist, the elite are moving it to capitalism to help government and only government achieve higher goals while leaving the citizens in the shitter...

look it up moron, anyone in the market for more than 2 years knows that

>china is communist
Are you mentally handicapped?

People nitpick and look for perfection, whilst taking things for granted.

Ultimately, capitalism has been of great benefit to mankind and built entire nations. Market demands spur innovation and efficiency, applies scarce resources where needed.

Looking at real examples, the Soviet Union representative of Socialism/Communism was a disaster. Barns full of perfectly edible food where routinely destroyed due to oversupply. Quality of goods where horrendous. Incentives to improve didn't exist. Black markets formed whilst legal buyers replaced brands with barcodes as they looked for produce from factories that tended to do better.

Then in terms of mixed economies, you can look somewhere like modern day France. France has a huge welfare system and numerous owned or part owned state companies, most of which are largely inefficient. It's regulations are ridiculously overbearing. I think it has the worst labour laws in any of the major developed countries. It's 10.5% unemployment rate is double that of Germany. The French nature is so lethargic, that even with all it's riches and resources, it's productivity is woeful.

America is the capitalist success story, you don't need me to tell you that. Ills have come out of it, two great depressions (the 'Great' one hurt massively by Government interference), a concern for the morality of the system, the 'degeneration' of citizens swallowed up by greed and over consumption. I understand people despise these things, I do also.

I'm British, and live in a slightly secluded area. I can walk maybe 2 minutes down the road and buy bread for 80p and milk for £1, there is no waiting time. Capitalism is efficiency, no other system will ever match it. Let other people's dreams/greed work for you.

>le sweden is a socialist utopia meme

fuck off

Capitalism is not for money printing. In my experience, most capitalists are actually pro full reserve banks and gold backing the dollar to stop the money creation and increasing stability.

>Ills have come out of it, two great depressions (the 'Great' one hurt massively by Government interference)

Conservative Intellectuals, everyone!

>What would you say we live in otherwise?

A really fucked up Black Mirror special episode.

I agree, but I think european countries went too far with the government aid and ended up bloating the public machine

it is

Maybe because it lasted for so long. Sure, it may be failing somewhat now, but you have to give it some credit for how long it lasted compared to other systems.

>today's china : you don't work, you don't eat
>today's murrika : muh assburger, ples gib welfare plox
As sad as it is, today's murrika is more socialistic than china.

Yeah, i know, sorry. I used the word "capitalism" instead of "economy" by mistake

I'm not adding explanations for the Great Depression and 2008 financial crisis to my already multiple paragraph long answer.

Introducing Smoot-Hawley is a good example though.