Why do people think that "universal basic income" is possible and not just communism in capitalistic wrapping paper?
A dollar is supposed to signify labor. If you aren't actually doing labor and you're getting money for free, where does the value of the dollar come from?
If such a system were to be implemented, people would just go back to bartering because the dollar would be worth squat
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Fuck capitalism and fuck white people
I'm not even white
Capitalism works on inequality. You're very smart.
They aren't necessarily stupid though, we don't need quite this much inequality for it to work.
Death to the great satan
Hey OP - You know this adds to 1.00001
In a situation of an universal basic income most of the production would be mechanized therefore there would be only a small need for actual workforce also nobody would be rich but everyone would be given enough money to live and a little to spare
Universal basic income is usually independent from any party affilition or politics, it's a relatively broader question in the 21st century; what society do you want to live in?
Since automation and digitalisation progressively replace human work, a jobh offer nowadays is usually extended to another invisible contract in society, so this basic income renews it and ensures everyone can still live without jobs.
It's more of a fundamental question and debate on the actual value of labor, its relation to currency, growth, consumerism, closing the gap between poverty and wealth; essentially living a life which is decent and fulfilled independently from any market value, while participating in public life in the advantage of the whole population.
Universal basic income therefore replaces social welfare, allows greater freedom to choose a suitable profession, sustain a real economy and entrepreneurship as a form of microcredit, allows sharing work in working part-time with others or helping others find work, encourages family life, higher education, culture... It's social progress essentially on grounds of evolution; an interesting debate.
I agree with this dynamic consideration of the question instead of the usual captialism/communism stereotypes.
But the bottom line for it to work is: will societies with UBI be able to outperform societies without? And that is a difficult question.
>A dollar is supposed to signify labor. If you aren't actually doing labor and you're getting money for free, where does the value of the dollar come from?
>what is interest
>A dollar is supposed to signify labor. If you aren't actually doing labor and you're getting money for free, where does the value of the dollar come from?
Welcome to the communist party comrade, keep up that study of the labour theory of value
Ironically, capitalism will fail without UBI as automation climbs. This is the big catch for the greedy and shortsighted conservatives- will you go down with the sinking ship because you're too arrogant to accept the creeping reality or will it take seeing the system finally collapsing to realize that helping others actually helps yourself?
I dunno man. I mean everywhere people who don't work are going to get welfare, and it irks me that they get it and i don't, despite me being the productive member of society.
Having said that, I'm no a monster, so I don't want to take their welfare away from them.
the solution? Give me the welfare alongside my wages. Hey I'd love the extra cash and more cash into the spenders in an economy is always good
Lol. U just made Trump won and u gotta get a fucking job. Stop taking all my taxes faggot.
I do. After seeing all the money the gunmen the needs piss away while I have a plate in my foot and work overtime. Then respond to Republicans taking over by burning all their free shit. Fuck em. U plan for your shortcomings or suffer. If u die broken and alone it's because u are a cunt and nobody likes u. Fuck social programs and fuck the left.
Death tax property tax income tax sales tax I'm fucking done.
To anyone here without a job. SUCK MY FUCKING DICK.
I could see something akin to UBI working as a standard for people who are either medically unable to work (as it's not exactly right of us to take great grandma out back and shoot her for being too old to make Johnny Billionaire a little richer, nor is it right to let her be homeless and miserable for it), and for people who are actively working but are below a certain annual income (as they are working, and therefore not a leech on the system who just wants free shit, but aren't making enough to gain a foothold beyond mere subsistence).
Then again I think the concept of temp labor should be de-privatized (or at least more regulated). It should be a service where companies file for how many workers they need and, assuming those temps pass the minimum standard requirements put forth by the agency during their trial, they are mandated by the agency to hire those folks as full employees. The unfortunate fact that many places never hire temps even when listing themselves as "temp to hire" essentially screws the majority of folks looking for steady work through these systems.
That way someone who's looking for work but struggling doesn't get shit on like he was the same as some layabout who just idly passes the odd application in and forgets to check on it to shut his mom up while mooching off her income.
You do know that every country has a social safety net though, right? Even your precious US has welfare.
The commies won, my naive user.
central banks inject "made up" money in the economy over time for muh controlled inflation.
instead of giving that made up money to the banks, you give it to poorfags.
that said, it still wont work since banks tend to use the made up money for smart investing and poorfags will just give money to strippers and buy frozen pizzas thus giving rise to the fast-food strip clubs across the globe
What happens when I put money in stock that pays dividends?
I get these checks for thousands of dollars and I did no labor weird right?
you have no idea how money works
THE POINT
is that machines do all the work and everybody will fight to say they control the machines that do free labor and ultimately it's better if the government steps in and owns all the machines and pays people not to fight.
How would that work? YOU are paying for those people's welfare. If everyone gets welfare, who's paying for it?
And before you say "le evil 1% big corporation guiz", if they would have to pay 95% taxes on their profits in this hypothetical country literally filled with welfare recipients, guess what they are going to do?
All these literal autists
Basic income is a stupid idea and never going to work. Automation will change a lot of things but not the fact that work will always be in demand.
I'd hate to be on welfare- if I needed it I would take it but it's only enough to get by and where do you even go from there? Hang out all day like a loser drinking 40s with your loser friends? Better to work my ass off than be the lowest common denominator
UBI would just make interest worst in a death spiral until we're wimar tier
>what is welfare
Universal basic income, or preferably a negative income tax, is just welfare with less horseshit and hoops to jump through.
Here in Australia there's so much fucking nonsense to get through and a gazillion people working on helping your do it that I assume just giving people below a certain income bracket free money must be a cheaper alternative.
If you'd like to get rid of welfare then fine, you can have that view, but if you're being realistic and acknowledge that that will never happen it is certainly preferable.
>the dollar would be worth squat
This would be only be true if every dollar in circulation (aka all the value in the economy) represented value decreed from government checks people receive
That's not what universal basic income means. The whole point of it is providing people with a with a baseline amount of spending without going full communism. The free market exists and people continue to be free and incentivized to engage in productive private economic activity. Value would continue to be created and traded more or less as it is now.
Communism was just a red herring
amen
Do you really think that if we implemented UBI today, the plebs would stop bitching and be like "we did it, we are totally content and don't want anymore welfare"
Fuck no, they would start bitching about how they want their UBI checks to double or triple. The news would run a story about how poor Tyrone can't get by on his UBI checks and how they need mo money fo dem programs.
Every decade/generation there is a "Solution to resolve the world's problems". The problems always seem to be people left behind by capitalism and the solution is always something socialist in nature. We had social security, medicare, welfare, the war on poverty. Tons of programs that just inject the poor with cash. I guess for this generation it will be basic income.
At some point we have to understand that we've tried some flavor of every socialist policy out there somewhere in the world. It really doesn't solve "the problem" the way people want it to.
All it really does is make society less productive as a whole and create massive bureaucracies and corruption.
The idea that you can raise the standard of living through forcible redistribution is one of the most harmful and popular illusions afflicting the free world. The illusion is a product of demagoguery and has to date resulted in an average 30% of GDP in developed democratic countries being commandeered for social welfare spending, with terrifying effects on everything from productivity growth and dwindling measures of self-reliance (e.g. personal savings).
Your argument is only valid if you think poor stupid "cunts" just go "oh i fucked up now i am broke and alone, time to lie down and die".
Poor broken lonely people are volatile, crazy and do not shy away from violence. This is why it's better to take care of the "cunts", at least on a basic level.
It's not an interesting debate at all. People are fucking shitbags and are just going to spend their money on weed and booze and play video games. It's a retarded idea that wont work. All this trash you hear about saying "yeah man, I wont have to worry about bills and I can pursue my other passions like making music" are from people living in a fairytale land. That isn't how the real world works. Go leave a fucking bowl of candy outside on Halloween with a sign that says take 1 only.
>Go leave a fucking bowl of candy outside on Halloween with a sign that says take 1 only
kek I remember a few houses that did this
I was a shitbird and took like 4 or 5
No, it would actually serve as a flat tax cut for all. But since poor faggots value money more, they'd be the ones to notice it more.
Are right wingers really this stupid?
Thanks for making Trump possible, thank you
>nobody would be rich but everyone would be given enough money to live and a little to spare
literally communism
No, it isn't. Let them rot. We just need constitutional carry.
90% of them need shot in the fucking face or a pair of work boots. The other 10% may legitimately need help or a job and are actively seeking 1. I am sick and goddammed tired of this shit. When I was a kid I saw a guy steal 3 trailer house axles from my dad. I have seen them hang out before and assumed he just sold them to him. Dad worked odd hours and a friend and I were camping in the back 40 near there. When dad asked if I saw anyone take them we loaded up with the cops and drove on out to his house where they were found under a tarp. He paid his fines by stealing more shit presumably and using disability money for his back. He runs a dozer for cash and I have seen him break a semi tire down after 3 guys failed. Have u swung a sledge or rode a dozer (Muh back.)
There is a disabled guy in town. Did so much dope he has heart problems. On disability and makes regular trips out of state to buy and sell pot and mechanics for cash.
My cousin has anot her car every month while him, my aunt, my grandma, and my other cousin are all on disability. One is retarded and needs help so I could see a couple not working. BUT fuck. My cousin pulls wells for cash and my aunt somehow is anot Avon PRO. They are rolling in cash money andown yet stealing my tax money.
I could go on for fucking days. Sacking groceries with a metal plate in the foot I dreaded the 2nd. Food stamps day. Tweaker abounder come in and buy shit to sell to their friends cheap or get cash and buy cigarettesome with it. I got fired for telling that bitch no cogs and go get a fucking job.
Fuck social programs and nazis ass Bernie sanders.
I bought pumpkins last month by putting 20 bucks in a pickle jar with hundreds on the side of the road. Used to drive a truck. Park 3 miles away and walk to my car every month. Did it about 10 times and never made the hole way on foot.
I dreaded the day my little town becomes a shithole like the surrounding places
Real shit bird would have snatched the bowl. U may be a little greedy but at least u have a soul
I'm not. And I'm right wing enough I'm about to fall off the edge.
KEK.
NO SHIT. HAIL THE EMPORER
Perfect communism works fine on paper.
Sadly people are cocksuckers and will ruin it. Hybrid system or die.
AMEN user.