Timing Belts

>were

I literally put one on a Renault Clio about twelve hours ago

typical yank

>timing belts are too hard
>shifting gears is too hard
>my seats are too small

Go be European somewhere else.

>timing belts are too hard
clearly you've never had a hungry engine
fiat sohc loves to eat valves and belts in haste

No it's not you fucking sperg. There's no tension because it's running low on oil.

>Will definitely destroy the chain.
I'd be more worried about timing, oil pump, guides, block, etc. Fuck the chain, that's (usually) the least of your worries. But shavings in the oil pump? Bad mojo.

From experience with BMW M62 (timing chain and tensioner) - You're retarded.

If the tensioner can't fill because the spring is worn, then the chain will slap around, no matter what the oil level is.

meeknet.co.uk/E31/BMW_M60_M62_M62TU_Engine_Scary_Noises.html

Slapping, rattling and other scary noises during a cold-start

"The timing-chain tensioner shown above works in a similar way to the hydraulic lifters, the internal spring provides enough pressure to move
the piston outwards and allow oil into the cylinder. It is not the spring tension that provides pressure on the timing-chain guide, it is the
hydraulic action that holds the piston in a fixed position."

From experience with BMW M62 (timing chain and tensioner)

My only experience was on my v6 frontier. Can't say I enjoyed it. Had to remove radiator then everything off the front of the engine then the covers. It was cheap but still an all day affair. It's always been quite noisy as well. Sounds like I have a supercharger.

I don't get why they're an issue desu, get it replaced when it needs doing and you'll never have any problems.

This. I hope Free Valve will be in more affordable cars soon.

Is there any actual evidence of chains destroying engine components when they snap or is it just lore?

I know supercharger chains will and that's why they are not used.

My motorcycle uses geared cams, like most i guess.

>sounds like it's supercharged at low rpms

>Is there any actual evidence of chains destroying engine components when they snap or is it just lore?
There was an episode of All Girls Garage where they were working on an Ecotec Chevy Cavalier that had the timing chain fuck up, which bent the valves and destroyed the head (season 1, episode 9)
Basically the same thing that happens when a timing belt snaps.
Not a myth. Actually happens.
youtube.com/watch?v=dsNZzBt1ZpQ

>50 years ahead of you

There is literally nothing wrong with timing belts. If you're not a troglodyte idiot you'll have your car serviced once every 100,000mi and have it changed.

VW TSI engines that have timing chains tend to lenghten because they used shitty oil and the chain tensioner was oil pressure operated so the chain might damage the engine

But i mean like if a timing chain were to snap, would it cut some wires around the engine or knock a sensor out of place or something?

generally no. They always have a metal covering of some sort to prevent that

At least a dying timing chain makes noise when its starting to fail, unlike the silent death of a belt.

Baby nissan engines too, the belt gets longer as it wears and the cam and crank sensor no longer correlate and it bounces revs at idle like you wouldn't believe.

Timing chains are sealed inside the engine because they run in engine oil. No escape for them.

hurr, I meant nissan chains not belts.

Lol

>Timing belt replacement: $20
>installation: $150~300
>Timing Chain replacement: $1500+
>Installation: $900+

>replacing timing belts every 100 miles.

You do know you're supposed to replace them every 40k or less LOL

depends on the car. My old Chevy Monte Carlo specified every 60k, and my step-mom's Toyota Avalon specified every 90k. My sister's old Chrysler Concorde stated every 100k.

>>Timing Chain replacement: $1500+
>>Installation: $900+
>implying $2400 to replace a timing chain
Are you high?

>100k on one belt
the horror

I'd be scared to drive a car that has more than 50k on one belt tb.h

honda recommends 105k miles

40k is subaru?

Subaru recommends 100k as well

welp. You're retarded then.
>implying you know more than the fucking engineers.

They're durable yes, but they sound like shit. They sound like driving a car with a bad power steering pump

Cost me £90 to do my chain
£60 for febi bilstein chain, the rest for the timing tools

>anime poster
figures

Timing belts are better. You change them every 75-100k like clockwork. It doesn't matter if the oil was changed on time and the car was designed to have it changed unlike some cars with chains.

Belts are superior to chains, in my opinion. Big deal, you have to replace it every 100k miles. It's not that hard.

You want to know what its like to replace a chain tensioner? Chains need to be replaced too eventually

>You want to know what its like to replace a chain tensioner?

I know how, unscrew it and put the new one in, literally a 5 min job.

>the fucking engineers.

You ever tried working with an engineer?

>we need x here, to send y to the unit
>okay, here's this, which will take y and send out x, will that work?
>sure!
>orders $10k component
>oh wait, that's the wrong one, that won't work
>turns out we need xy here, to send e to the unit, so the unit can backfeed with f to the component
>they don't make that
>well that's what we need
>does the unit have inputs for that?
>we don't know, just get it here

I mean, if you're looking to get a toaster designed or something, sure, they're probably great people for that. But I swear to god, it takes them 10 tries to figure out a system that works after the project is 2/3 of the way done.

Look, the intern is butthurt that his most important job is to get coffee.

Not necessarily. Depends on the engine. VW TSI engines with chain usually have half a second of bad noise until it gets oiled properly. It's normal.

But VW also says up until 3-4 seconds of noise is normal. So who knows.

When the chain snaps it will of course damage the engine? The timing will be no more and then the pistons will smash into the valves. I suppose it's possible for the chain to fall down into the oilpump chain and mess that up as well.

More that the sparky is upset the Mech E. can't differentiate between delta and wye, so now I have to haul a 400 lb transformer back out of the basement and put a new one in. Not out of my pocket though, so I guess it could be worse.

Car producers today say the chain will be functional for the duration of the car's lifespan. What they don't tell you is that the manufacturer expects the car to live for nothing more than 250 000 kilometers. This is why we have bullshit like no-change gear oil and stuff like that.

But if you want your car to go 500k, then it definitely needs changing.

1hz has a belt

That was the first pic I found. My motorcycle has gears and was fucking great

Only if your car was designed by someone who gave a shit about serviceability. Modern timing chain systems are a CLUSTERFUCK

With a lot of the modern DOHC engines there isn't a lot of difference between having a belt or a chain. Your still going to have to change the thing around 100k miles either due to chain stretch or the belt wear. Whether an chain or belt is best really depends on how the engine is laid out.

Trying to replace the chain on an audi 4.2 v8 is a nightmare that requires pulling the whole engine out because it's on the backside of the motor, but replacing the belt on a DOHC subaru engine is pretty easy so long as you have the tool to hold the right side cams in place and can be done in less then 2 hours.

>Why the fuck were these used for so long?
Quieter and cheaper

>All Girls Garage
What a complete joke of a show.

>Using a mechanical engineer when you needed an electrical engineer
You should all be fired.

When Chains break. it could break shit in your bay

Shouldn't they be shut down for discrimination?

>He wants bicycle technology turning his cams

what is this from?

never heard of timing gears

race cars occasionally get converted to them. They're more reliable than belts or chains but holy shit are they loud.

I always worry about the belt snapping when I see a 2JZ meme engine spinning at 9000 RPM.

would it be possible to swap out the fan belt on a diesel with a gear set up?

i like the sound, and think it would be great if it overlapped my little 4 cylinders natural thump.

>it takes them 10 tries to figure out a system that works after the project is 2/3 of the way done.

literally every engineering project ever. engineering is iteration and educated guess work.

>guys buy our car with timing chain, it will last forever
>your engine exploded after 70k miles? lol tough luck pal, looks like you got a lemon. that'll be 10 grand plus tips, sir.

>decide to do an overdue timing belt on my civic (at 120k)
>this should be easy
>ended up taking all 3 belts off and the harmonic balancer
>had to remove 2 engine mounts and jack up the engine
>had to whip up a 7ft breaker bar for the bolt off the crankshaft
>sat on the end of the bar and nothing budged
>600ft/lb impact guns wouldn't touch it
>new to wrenching and it took me 2-3 days
>get everything re-assembled
>off by a tooth
If I could get a chain or gears and never have to maintain them beyond a tensioner that would be great

Literally the only purpose of belts and chains is to generate servicing costs.
Gears are best.

>muh noise!
What are helical gears?

>muh cost!
The car comes with a box full of gears, but adding a few extra idler gears is now too expensive?

>muh complexity!?
So a few idler gears sitting on short axles in the engine is more complex than the fuckery of oil pressurised tensioners, multiple guides and sprockets?

>Never need to touch them
They'll wear and require adjustment of some kind in OHC applications, because of how many damn gears you need to run from the crank to the cam.

Chains cost more, are noisier, prone to stretching, the guides wear out, and poor lubrication (in shitboxes who see an oil change once every ~20,000 miles) will make all that even worse.

Timing belts are quiet, cheap to manufacture, don't require any kind of lubrication, hell they even weigh less. It's easier to engineer a good timing belt than a timing chain.

Sure, you have to change them every so often, but most of them aren't too bad to do - they're designed to be replaced, unlike the chains, guides, and tensioners that will typically require a lot more fucking around to replace.

Chains wear out, they just take more time to.

No one cares Ahmed.

>wear out
about the same time the entire fucking engine is worn out, yes.
>poor lubrication
see above
>noisier
fair observation
>cost more
yes

>Chains wear out, they just take more time to.

Oh.

You've never worked on a 2.2 ecotec before have you?

>about the same time the entire fucking engine is worn out
You'd be surprised, most of the older timing chain engines I've seen die were because of a timing failure. Skipping a few teeth because the chain is stretched, or the guides wear out.

Hell, just look at the GM 3.6L V6, those things bring engine lights on at 90,000 kms because the chains stretch so damn much.

>Hell, just look at the GM 3.6L V6, those things bring engine lights on at 90,000 kms because the chains stretch so damn much.
They fixed the problem in 2009.

Yes, it's just an example highlighting the difficulty that manufacturers have with chains, and why they don't use them on every single engine.

Hell, VW and Renault have already moved on to a new technology called 'timing belt in oil', which is exactly what it says on the tin.

Timing belts, submersed in engine oil. Quieter, more efficient, and the longevity is (supposedly) on par with timing chains.

My engine is up to 80k KMs without touching them, considering it revs up to about 19K they are very hardy. However it only needs a few gears to transfer the power up as its a fucking tiny engine

Ah, yeah, I don't know jack about bike engines, I was only speaking from experience on car engines. Pic related.

Holy shit, what engine is this? I am fully erect just looking at it

Nissan L-block I think, maybe an L28?

>VW also say
>Trusting anything that comes from VAG

Yeah, same type of tensioner as the bmw one I posted.
Although you have to unspring it before fitting it if you don't want to take the valve cover off.

why would they alter harmonics? gears aren't inherently unbalanced.