What were they thinking? Did they actually design this and think "yes...

it adds up though, 36 cents times a million vehicles is 36 million cents

>People wanted an excuse to sue 2bh
i would sue too if it was against GMC

>$360,000

they probably have that in old tools at one plant

now they're getting fucked for hundreds of millions

>they probably have that in old tools at one plant
Auto manufacturers don't leave old tools around.

i believe the real problem was a spring that acted on a detent ball in the ignition switch. The spring was too weak

I don't understand why this is a sueable thing? Just an inconvenience. "Well fuck my car turned off and I have to crank it again, or take all my keychains off"

>I don't understand why this is a sueable thing?
because the airbags wouldn't go off unless the ignition was on.

>There will come a time where the sun is in your eyes so you decide to fold down the visor. It will hit the rearview mirror
jesus fuck
Even the shittiest Chinese and Malaysian cars I've been in haven't been this bad

I didn't know that. Makes sense, thanks user.

You mean because dumb fucking whore hang 17 lbs of trinkets from their fucking key chain instead of house key, car key, key fob.

about 110 people died as a result.

Yep as a GM tech they have 2 recalls for this. 14350 and 14299 are issued and it pays .4 of an hour to do 2 keys when we do it in 5 mins

>people
>americans
not the same

That's right, Americans are Gods

go be european somewhere else, The americans are enjoying their invention known as the internet, talking about another american invention, the automobile

$360k isn't much money when you sell new cars, that's only like twenty cars.

>talking about another american invention, the automobile

As an American, I'd like to say you're retarded.

>idiots think it's acceptable to have 15 pounds of shit on their lanyard

My roommate and his wife bought a Cruze a couple years ago with the turbo engine. Turbo took a dump and it was under warranty luckily at the time. After talking to the service manager for a bit the guy said they all pretty much fail around 60,000 miles and never addressed the issue. So my roommate is now stuck with a vehicle that has a high potential to fail right after the warranty is up and that's pretty fucked that a new replacement part has yet to be made

Wow, you guys are smart you should work at gm

GM trucks are at least somewhat not so bad. GM put all their effort into trucks and just phoned it in on cars from 1980's-2010.

>Americans making turbocharged engines

Never worked in the past, won't ever work.

All the American cars I've been in have a shitty, babbys-first-model-car quality interior. I visited the Ford factory once and they literally just snap in the plastic interior parts. I rented a 2016 Focus this year and everything was already coming apart. Never felt that way with Jap cars outside of shitty Mitsubishis and Hyundais.

Ford did kinda the same thing. In the 90s and 00s, the majority of their small cars were worthless but the F-Series and SUVs were built well.

t. gm cuck

Mass production automobile

You are retarded.

>what were they thinking?
they were thinking "what kind of faggot puts 20lbs of keychains and shit on their car keychain"

>defending jewish practices
hi gm's marketing team

lol my visor doesn't even do that with my broadway mirror

check'd the dubs though

You shouldn't be doing that in any car... Unless you want your hello kitty trinkets embedded in your kneecap when you crash.

gm>nissan

The major root cause of the ignition failures was the culture at GM.

The specific event that lead to these failures was in the design phase, when they performed a Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (FMEA)

This is the stage where, in designing a particular component, and engineer/risk analyst needs to use their imagination. The goal is to identify everything that could feasibly go wrong with a system, how bad it would be if that happened, how likely it is to happen, how easy it is to identify before it happens, and how easy it is to mitigate the failure, or mitigate the effects of the failure (See chart)

For the GM ignition problems, the FMEA had an entry for "ignition disconnects while vehicle is in motion". Where they got it terribly wrong was the "severity" of this event: the designers stated that "in the event of ignition failure, the car will coast to a stop" (since brakes still work)

They did not consider power steering becoming too difficult to move or locking up altogether, or airbags failing to deploy.

And thats where it went wrong.

>blaming the victim for GM's fuckup
can you ride their nuts any harder?

no, I'm just tired of this constant
>we must recall anything that gets popular
with the exception of a real issue, like the Takata airbags, a lot of recent recalls have been from idiots doing inappropriate things to their cars
>Lincoln recalling cars because delusional old people would press AND HOLD the Start/Stop button which was near the "S" for selectshift, as if they knew what "S" meant
>FCA (as stupid as they are) recalling ZF-designed shifters (that Audi also uses) that require you to hold it up to put it fully into Park that ignored bells and whistles and dash messages saying "hey idiot its not in park"
>Toyota recalling cars because people would ram floormats into their accelerators and not know how to shift into Neutral

the list goes on and on of these recent recalls of companies terrified of getting GM'd because they made the wrong assumption that people were generally smart enough to just listen and do what the manufacturer said. When they found out that the issue was caused by weight on the ignition they said "stop putting shit there" but that wasn't good enough - congress found out and they wanted blood, in order to look like they're actually doing something and defending the people.

So when I see these recalls, if it's not for pure negligence or an actual failure or something that's not user-driven like "retard can't watch 2:50 video on youtube explaining how their 5000lb Jeep works", I get worried because it's only a matter of time where the NHTSA requires all cars to have X shifter and Y steering and Z ignition and they must all be functionally the same, thus raping any sort of ingenuity out of existence.

Pic related - your new government mandated shifter mechanism, since everyone knows how to use it. Also, manuals are illegal now.

Let me guess... You feel compassion for people who die from getting their accelerator stuck too?

>false equivalence
try again buddy

>"stop putting shit there"

this was a common practice before GM ever launched the cars with ignition problems. the threshold was also very low; a set of house/work/car keys could cause the ignition to turn off

You can't communicate a behavior change to hundreds of thousands of customers all at once and expect them all to hear it, understand it, and immediately change their behavior that works in all of their other cars

This dumb image needs to die. The R32 ran the burger king in 8:22.

While GM did fuck up, let's face it, the only people who had this issue have so much shit on their keys that they'd fatigue any ignition over enough time. I used to own an 02 impala, it got a recall notice in 2015 for the ignition problem, after the thing already had 230,000 or so miles and never once had an issue with it's ignition.

Why? Because I had the key and the fob on the keyring, no other shit. I put that thing over 265,000 before the trans fucked up on me one time and I parked it and sold it to pick n pull because it wasn't worth the fix.

>never had the timing chain done
>never had the trans fluid changed
>never flushed the radiator
>never needed any engine work

Fuck, all I did was run basic bitch oil and a Bosch filter and that thing took a ton of abuse.

>change their behavior that works in all of their other cars
with this mindset, we might we well force in the era of self-driving-cars-only.
If a user of a 3000+ pound shitbox can't be held responsible for learning how to use and the downfalls of their vehicle, which requires insurance, registration, and often safety inspections on a regular basis then I don't see how there's any way out.

You can't make a design consumer-proof in its entirety, and when you consider GM's original position:
>hey someone's complaining that they put too much weight on their key and it turned off
>how often has it happened?
>like 10 times for the 30 million cars we've sold that have this ignition cylinder
>oh, well, whatever
As time went on they blamed 100 or so deaths, a good bit of which I would argue were questionable at best, and they got railroaded. But do you think the following scenario was/is that far away?

>hey boss someone is complaining that they turned off their car while driving by turning the key
>well, yeah, that's how it works
>yeah but then they dagumi'd into oncoming traffic and their airbags didn't work
>but they turned the car off themselves, right?
>yeah, but they want us to put back on those lock buttons you have to press to turn off the car and make it so you can't turn it off when moving
>but then what happens when someone needs to shut down their motor in an emergency? fuck it, accelerate the self-driving program

Am I denying that car manufacturers can and will cheap out on a part that lasts a 1/3 as long to save literally 3 pennies per model? Absolutely not. They're cheap bastards. But I want them to be held responsible for real shit breaking, like "my brakes failed" or "my electronic steering stopped" or "why the fuck are there still shallow 1/2" tall cupholders"

>the only people who had this issue have so much shit on their keys that they'd fatigue any ignition over enough time

wrong, GM is the only manufacturer that exhibited this problem

Better than putting down the sun visor and it doesn't block the sun at all because it's between the visor and mirror.

yee my friend has so many fucking trinkets on his keychain (literally weighs 5lbs) and his LS400 won't randomly shut off and kill him on the highway lmao

>LS400 won't randomly shut off and kill him on the highway lmao

But his gas pedal will stick down and kill him lmao

>downfalls of their vehicle

theres a difference between predicted behavior and failure

this was not an intentional design, GM's engineers failed to make the system robust enough.

Its not like turning off traction control or something designed to make the car behave different, this was a design failure.

youtube.com/watch?v=wIdmkETuWeM

Try reading that again

>While GM did fuck up
>the only people

>they'd fatigue any ignition over enough time

can't read your own sentences?

Was the LS400 made by ford?

The LS400 never had that problem and you can literally switch to neutral and nothing will happen.

plebs driving around with their keys in the ignition deserve to die tbqh

>you can literally switch to neutral and nothing will happen.
to quote someone above
"You can't communicate a behavior change to hundreds of thousands of customers all at once and expect them all to hear it, understand it, and immediately change their behavior that works in all of their other cars"

this

don't pull a muscle stretching

How many Toyota actually had stuck gas pedals or was that just dealer installed floor mats?

as the author of that statement:

I agree, if the LS400 did experience that problem, simply telling people to shift into neutral would not have been sufficient

I think it would be slightly less of an issue because the "shift into neutral to disengage engine" is something many (I might even say most) drivers understand

quite different from "react to power steering seizing, brakes weaker, and no airbags"

When you plan to manufacture a million cars, $1 suddenly becomes $1 million. Cut costs anywhere that you think you can.

>Not turning your ignition off on a long downhill to go full race car mode

surprising how many people find "GM is just cheap" is an acceptable answer when the truth is much, much deeper than that

see

>Also, manuals are illegal now.
Oh please, they are not. You don't see them because they're eight-tenths of a percent of new car purchases. Auto makers save money by not having the manual choice at all because then they pay for government certification and testing on only the automatic versions. They also know it wont hurt 99% of sales despite increasing the base model price by whatever amount extra it used to cost to buy the automatic. The American consumer is a particular brand of stupid and willfully ignorant.

>mfw i'm American and he's completely right about us as a whole

the concern is that you're dealing with people who effectively throw the owners manual into the trash when they buy the car. In this modern world, we cannot assume that "common sense" dictates what people do in the face of an emergency.
My argument here is that there are many people who don't take proper precautions to the dangerous activity of driving, and many people who would love to find someone to blame for their loved one plowing their car into another.
When I see GM 'at fault' for 140 fatal accidents I often wonder of the situation leading up to the accident. Road conditions, the speed of the GM vehicle, etc. There were thousands of claims that the ignition was at fault and most got dismissed due to complete lack of evidence at the ignition was the problem.
usnews.com/news/business/articles/2016-08-25/jury-gm-cars-ignition-switch-not-to-blame-in-fatal-crash

I mean I've had my car turn off before... an early 90's blazer. The rotor ignition system had burned out contacts and it caused the SUV to stall. I lost power steering and brakes but I did manage to keep it on the road, despite going way over the speed limit (lol high school) and going into a corner. It was hard, but it was a valuable lesson that could have killed me or someone else that I should know how a car handles when the assists go away. It was a 20 year old truck and the cap and rotor is not in the scheduled maintenance in the owners manual. Should GM be at fault for that?

>you'll take the choice we give you and like it

that bit with the "government mandated shifter" and the manuals being illegal was sarcasm
my concern is that they could be in the future because certain Americans cannot stand being responsible for their own actions

Those were trips

So an unimaginative company that makes unimaginative cars, designed shit unimaginatively and it killed people.

That reason enough not to buy a honda.

Unless you buy some top of the line shit that isn't a corvette, american cars are leasemobiles.

Drive for a year and then get a new one. Don't like it? Terminate the lease early.

Pretty much this. A lot of dealerships do 2 year leases on cars and trucks.

>shift into neutral to disengage engine
You could use the clutch instanly, if you need to stop your car from accelerating.

>react to power steering seizing, brakes weaker
If you don´t drive a fucking Tank, that doesn´t change much.
I once drove a ~7 ton vehicle without power steering, it isn´t even hard as long as you move.
Weaker brakes aren´t much of a deal, WRC drivers often deactivate their brake booster to have better controll over their brakes.

>I once drove a ~7 ton vehicle without power steering, it isn´t even hard as long as you move.
non-powered steering=/=manual steering rack.

As long as it is electrical power steering, the difference is minimal, if it is hydraulic, you have the hydraulic assembly on the steering shaft and a bit more friction.

>completely missing the fact that fomoco cars will shit itself in continental climaate

>live in australia
>See old people in tiny red GMs all the time
>be driving down princes highway in South Australia
>breddy hot day, like 38 degrees celcius or something
>Broken GM pulled to the side of the road

My uncle once told me they look good, but the engine will fall out if you drive them on a day hotter than 20 degrees C

>GM
>Auto manufacturer

user, theyre a toy car company.

GM Management is an absolute joke, hourly side isn't much better. Nepotism and lack of accountability is destroying the company from within.

thats the lap time of a R34 with 180kmh speed governor still activated

They didnt know people put 10 pounds of useless bullshit on their keyrings then put it in the ignition.

>Americans making turbocharged engines
What is the GNX?
What is every good diesel?
What is eco-tec?
What is ecoboost?

...

>dealer installed floor mats?
that was the lie toyota told to cover their asses

they weren't thinking

>its only $1!
Now factor in retooling all the production lines and updating all of the material on the car relating to that part and system.

Consider that the new ignition switches shared the same PN with the older faulty ones.

>He gets this much of a kick out of posting fake lap times

Hyundai is Korean, user.

>"""why the fuck are there still shallow 1/2" tall cupholders"""
If you want to solve this problem, just get the new cruize. it has fucking 14 to make up for it.

It's retarded. Anyone with cursory knowledge would know that the R34 GT-R is at least on par with the Evo IX.

>Americans

still faster than ford