/rlg/ - Roguelike General

>it's very slow to play
One thing I loved about Demon: Ferret obviously thought about what happens if 5 creatures act all at once.
Dredmor just kinda gives up at solving that

yes user, every character in crawl wants to train dodging
you might not take it as high as a character with a better apt, but you should still have SOME
probably dont do that super early in the game though; on the first few dlvls you're better off focusing on all-out offense

demon is kind of shitty about that too actually
like some monster casts that one holy spell that damages all enemies in an area and it plays the white-run-falling-on-them-from-the-sky animation in series, one-at-a-time for each demon it hits. there's no way to skip this shit except by entering a command and skipping the entire turn's animations

Yes, aptitudes tend to decide what you character does and doesn't do, but core ones like dodging/fighting/armour don't since you'll want at least some every singe game, because they're really,really good.

Skipping is good enough. The only thing that really matters is the end state.
Though Demon isn't very good at displaying the end state.

i didn't play the game too much but i remember it being a huge pain in the ass to actually see which status effects a demon had

rather than being in a list they would all flash one-at-a-time in the corner of its character sheet or something

Yeah, that's most of the issue.
That's not all, though. Effects aren't properly timed in the UI. There is no effect duration displayed (not even some "effect power" measure).

Even something as bad as Brogue's effect display would be better. Now, Brogue is quite bad at it too, but at least it tries.

Did the dude die of laughter? Was he having too much giggle at a diggle?

He got all the dank memes at once

>he doesn't giggle at diggles
I bet you don't even cummy in tummies

That is your based armor realm.

why won't my minireactor (powered on, filled with fuel) charge the battery in my car

as if armor wasn't stacked enough already!

>no artifact blade of chaos with chaos brand and (wild)

It was changed to work as the backup.
This makes it useless for charging other vehicles, but makes it more useful when working with alternators and solars.

that makes no sense

it's a nuclear reactor, it should fucking power the vehicle always, not just on backup

is replacing all my windows in my car with boards and cameras a bad idea

Realism is the reason for everything that is wrong with DDA.

The only problem here is that you can't use it to charge batteries even when you want to do that.
For one vehicle usage, it's much better that you don't need to manually turn the reactor on/off to conserve plutonium while solars are running.

Cameras have less range and you need to sit on the control panel for it to work.

Would you do it in real life?

Does less range mean it explores less of the overworld map too

Not sure. There are two mechanics for overmap exploration: one checks actually seen tiles, other is pure range based.
The range based ones will not be affected, but the one that sees tiles certainly will be.

you can just put curtains over the windows so you can close them when you're not driving

when you ARE in motion you don't care as much about zombies noticing you because you can just run them over

>Realism is the reason for everything that is wrong with DDA.

Are you saying the game being too realistic is a problem? Or that the game isn't realistic enough

Necro is amazing, I think I've found my new favourite god.

Anyway, should I try and wear heavier armour, since I'm barely blasting stuff anymore with my undead slaves destroying everything.

I want to make a tank and drive up to other tanks / military turrets and hack them without them seeing me

well you can still do windows with curtains + cameras so in non-hacky situations you can get proper vision

The realism being ever considered more important than gameplay.

This is the direct reason for all the bloat and an indirect reason for lack of balance, "oops you slipped you're dead now" combat, multiple kinds of UI shittiness and tedium.

And ironically, also for lack of realism, when "realistic" bullet damage means NPCs shooting at you would be instadeath, yet NPCs have all the reasons to shoot you before asking you to get angry.

Seriously, if you ever think
>this is retarded. what the fuck were they thinking?
the reason is most likely realism.
Conversely, when you actually have fun, the reason is most likely someone deciding to make things less realistic and just going sci-fi and action movie.

The 'attempt' at realism is the best thing about cataclysm. Why don't you play any of the million other roguelikes if you just want pure gameplay above all else?

Well that stinks

It's not that hot. The enchantment alters each turn, so it can plummet to negatives.

Also, it is chaos-branded - which can backfire really badly.

Realism:
>vitamins
>morale penalty for wetness
>morale penalty for filthy clothing
>item damage
>grab attacks fucking you over
>good armor making you immune to most shit

Anti-realism:
>being able to craft vehicles as efficient as factory ones
>being able to repair vehicles without raping their efficiency
>CBMs existing
>being able to install CBMs and not just start with them
>infections being curable without risk of instadeath
>regeneration not taking months
>crafting clothing not taking hours per attempt
>radiation not being delayed instadeath with no warning

Spells that you can use and are actually useful for the entire duration of the game anywhere you go are better than something that is only useful for a 3 rune.

Any good roguelikes with combat like Dwarf fortress adventure mode? I fucking love chopping limbs off in that game and stabbing eyes out. So far most RL just have normal HP style combat.

IVAN has critters and player losing limbs left and right.

This is a bad thing, right?

This baby is on sale for like 2000 gold but Zin is jewing all my gold away.

How do I make fast gold?

There's no real way to get a ton of gold, unless you're with Gozag and by the time you'll have enough money to blow on that, you'll have a billion dragon armours laying around the dungeon anyway.

>playing more than 3 runes
its like you want to somehow have even LESS fun in dcss

...

always acquire gold

Cleared the lair, the upper dungeon and the orcish mines.
Where to now, depths?

nah the *tele will help reduce your turncount and get you a higher score

Nevermind just splatted at the depths, tried running for what I'm guessing was a wizard lab and got chased by 3 troll shamans and an ice dragon.

lair branches
easiest from hardest:
swamp
spider
snake
shoals

then vaults 1-4
then all of depths

I wish I hadn't gotten greedy about that lab.
I didn't think I'd be so unprepared, apparently two of those trolls were actually earth mages and before I stopped moving back to the entrance I noticed i got hit by 3 LRC in a row.
I was 2 tiles away from escaping, I'm upset now.

It's not fun for you because you're bad.

At least you know the branch order for next time, depths enemies are far,far stronger than the stuff in the lair branches.

Hold on, enemy LCS can be cast directly on top of the player character if they are a gargoyle, correct?

LCS is Lehudibs crystal spear which anyone can get hit by, I assume you meant LRD, so the answer is yes, you can get directly hit by LRD if you are a gargoyle.

Shucks, should have expected that. I was liking that guy, tons of AC for a spellcaster.

How can I choose which monster to reach attack with polearms online?

eVoke it

Thanks. Would you like a kissu or a peench? :)

have slex with me instead :)

wtf that's like 90 damage!

RP is allowed there, not /rlg/.

>8 AC
>taking on a 5+ headed Hydra up close

You were asking for it.

rekt

>using chaos weapons at all

is cogmind any good yet?

The only people I have seen saying good things about it are people whose opinions I wholly disregard as worthless.

This doesn't seem safe at all.

Actually, it's probably good the death knights are there, as otherwise I'd try to fight it.

i love when rooms spawn with monster formations

Shall I just quit roguelikes?
Why do people say this genre is fucking easy? It's so goddamn difficult. I can't even beat DCSS again, and apparently that's the easiest one.
Seriously, it's too heartbreaking to put multiple hours into a character just to die.
I'm just not cut out for this shit.

The only people who think roguelikes are easy are people who spend too much time playing them.
Like the people here, for example.

>Why do people say this genre is fucking easy? It's so goddamn difficult. I can't even beat DCSS again, and apparently that's the easiest one.

DCSS is easy as shit though.
Play overpowered combo like Minotaur Berserker, or worship better gods like Trog, Okawaru or Gozag.

>Seriously, it's too heartbreaking to put multiple hours into a character just to die.
That's the appeal of roguelike.
Just like in real life, you can't reload your save when you're doing something wrong.

Anyway, play online so we can watch or give advice to you.

>dying as MiBe
>2017
You're kidding right ?

it's easy in that with perfect, cautious, thoughtful, non-hoarding play you usually win, but it's really damn hard to have the patience and self-control to avoid making a move before considering the situation fully, or to avoid playing on when you know you should go to bed. And the moment you think "I'm doing well" you lose the caution and often immediately go and do something stupid.

It took me like 10 years before I beat vanilla Angband for the first time, but then the second win came easliy. Part of it is game knowledge, part of it is getting into an appropriately-calibrated groove, etc.

There really are "eureka!" moments that come after you win and things start falling into place. Part of it is just comfort with game progression, part of it is realizing to value absolutely no item so highly as the survival of the character (because you end [win or lose] most roguelikes with an abundance of shit you were so sure you'd use someday)

When you feel that irritable grumpy sensation when playing a character of "I deserve to get back to where my last guy was before dying, when I was just getting to the good part" or realizing you'll actually go bonkers after a fatal misstep, it's time to take a step back and do something else, maybe even meditate or go to bed.

Also people overstate how easy shit is because they know it's objectively easy, even when in their own practical games they often ignore the above and do stupid shit when they *know* better than to do that.

and to add: taking a 1% risk a lot of times ultimately culminates in dying almost 100% of the time, even if each individual dice roll is highly in your favor. You get away unpunished for a lot of shit, which leads to dangerous habits. Then the hydra does 90 damage in a turn or whatever and the harsh lesson comes down: those other times you went unpunished because you were lucky.

Holy shit my weapon literally disappeared in the Abyss when I was teleported once. Goddamnit IJC

I spawned inside a Abyss Rune vault in Abyss:3, surrounded by monsters. I managed to escape with cBlink, but I got teleported away (whole map reset) before I could get the rune. Do I need to leave the Abyss and come back again before I can find another rune?

I guess you're right. I think I've been listening to too many retards on /v/.

I dislike playing cookie cutter overpowered combos like that, even if it leads to frustration due to the added difficulty.
The way I see it is, I'd rather struggle through an interesting playthrough using a combo I enjoy even if it is suboptimal rather than breezing my way through the game and tabbing to victory as a minotaur berserker.

>it's easy in that with perfect, cautious, thoughtful, non-hoarding play you usually win, but it's really damn hard to have the patience and self-control to avoid making a move before considering the situation fully, or to avoid playing on when you know you should go to bed. And the moment you think "I'm doing well" you lose the caution and often immediately go and do something stupid.

Gonna be honest, every single thing you said there rings so true for me. When I'm playing slow a methodical, everything usually goes fine. As soon as I start to get impatient and overconfident, I get punished for it.
I'm also guilty of playing when tired, when I know I should just put it down and pick it up the next day, but I keep saying to myself "I'll just make it to 'x' then I'll stop...", and a good 75% of the time this leads to my death.

99% of the time, part of you is internally screaming the correct play, and another part of you, generally the part directly attached to your real or metaphorical testicles, says "yeah nah fuck you imma do this instead"

Honestly, one of the best ways to play is to just unbind tab.

>Seriously, it's too heartbreaking to put multiple hours into a character just to die.

That's half the fun, though. You fuck up, you learn a little, you try again but under different circumstances.

It's like life, but it's most similar to a relationship. You try to make things work and to work with what's in front of you, rather than constantly dreaming of an older/more ideal relationship.

when you think of it from a neurochemical reward perspective it makes a lot of sense
taking (small, cumulative) risks by yoloing through monsters, gaining levels and loot, releases dopamine and the like in the brain to make you feel rewarded, even though it's wrong play. But taking caution and playing to the worst case scenario has no such attendant reward, at least until the (inevitably underwhelming) win itself. So you have this perverse incentive structure where the player is encouraged to do (even if just marginally) stupid shit, with the deserved punishment only rarely actually manifesting, and with the reward of an actual win being extremely delayed. On top of that, often a bad choice won't actually punish you until much later (e.g. "if only I had one more scroll of blink left"). Thus both the rewards for correct play and punishments for bad play are divorced from the things that brought them about, if they're invoked at all.

No, it generates.

Is the bezotted update already on trunk?

What's the next bloat race that is going to be purged from DCSS?

In DCSS, should one ever level their weapon skill past the min delay level when there is nothing important to level?

>giant club of chaos
>on a troll

Fault, but I would have used it too

No, it's still in branch "dpegs_dynamic_monsters"

s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/dpegs_dynamic_monsters

Human

There's no such thing as "nothing important to level", unless your Fighting / Dodging / Armor is already at 27, you'll want to branch into magic.

Nah

If you aren't murdering shit quite well at min delay you need a different weapon, not more weapon skill

And if you are ALREADY murdering shit quite well, you can train basically anything else for more benefit than weapon skill will give you.

I only go above mindelay in niche cases of huge weapon apts where it's not a big XP drain, or the 'lol 27 fighting and casting firestorm in GDA train literally whatever senpai' stage of the game

Depends on what level is required for min delay. If it's 20 or higher, you won't get much/anything by training more. But if it's lower than 15, you'll get a little extra damage/accuracy with more training, although you'll be better off switching to a stronger weapon. Pound for pound, min delay is all you need.

Poor little Oremorj

could afford 5,000 rockets to shoot at players but couldn't afford swimming lessons

i hate magic

...

Hello level 50, haven't seen you in awhile

congratulations! I'm waiting on the good times now myself.
welcome to the final third of the game

If I don't have a numpad is there anyway to rebind the vi-keys for movement? It's set up in the most awful way.

use mouse