What was the hardest weapon to master? I'm going with the halberd, since it was basically three in one

The written word.

It was a dueling weapon, its actually very hard to face with a sword unless you are experienced with it, the iron weight on the end can cause some serious wounds or even kill if it hits the head.

>Rush at the guy swinging the retard chain
>Retard chain wielder dies

Are you literally retarded?

>rush the guy with the chain and double sickle
>literally playing right into his hands

kek.

WEEEEEEEB

Kek. These exotic so-called weapons are the same as all Eastern "martial" arts. They're memetic and ineffective as fuck.

youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

Judo and old school karate are pretty good martial arts.
If you had an UFC in the early 80's, Yamashita would likely win without much problem.

Maybe yes or maybe no. MMA has evolved a lot, separating the meme from the real martial arts. Judo happens to be one of the legit martial arts. But back on topic. If that guy with the chain faced a medieval knight in a combat situation he would get hacked.

The chain has a iron weight on its end, when these guys go against kendoka they almost always win

its not a weapon for the battlefield or armored combat, its a dueling weapon

Possibly the dagger/knife. The margin of error is ridiculously small due to the close quarters, and it's pretty much impossible to be involved in a knife fight and not walk away injured.

>when these guys go against kendoka they almost always win

Meaningless. If you faced an olympic fencer with a length of chain and a knife, you'd probably win. That doesn't mean the chain is a good choice for tackling a trained swordsman, it means that you beat up on someone who is trained to play a game of tag that pretends it is swordsmanship.

Kendo is no different. It's a sport. A game.

What about sword and dagger?

Ah and how is the trained swordsmen gonig to do a better job defending himself from the flail than a kendoka would.

Unless you have trained against such a weapon you have know idea how to deal with it, which is exactly how the kusarigama was used historically.

as for kendo, sport kendo is a game yes. but that's a rather myopic view of kendo.

This or Rapier and Dagger.

It is considered by many to be an extremely effective combo, and possible the best for 1 on 1 dueling. However with such a light blade and limited parrying options you are open to a heavy blade paired with a shield.

Was sword & dagger ever used in combat, or was that more of a sports/fencing thing?

>Unless you have trained against such a weapon you have know idea how to deal with it, which is exactly how the kusarigama was used historically.
Post sources.

>as for kendo, sport kendo is a game yes. but that's a rather myopic view of kendo.
It's the fucking truth. The near total absence of thrusts is enough to make this apparent, ignoring all the other problems with it.

It's game, and so far divorced form actual swordsmanship as to be worthless.

>Ah and how is the trained swordsmen gonig to do a better job defending himself from the flail than a kendoka would.

Probably by stabbing the wielder to death.

Just fuck off. Nothing about the rapier is light.

Charge the idiot with the chain

I've done some workshops in Halberd and the weebs are right anything whip related is far harder to master. That's pretty much their point. They're not practical weapons.. functional when mastered maybe but practical fuck no. They exist in martial arts as a testiment of skill and the dedication to master something really fucking hard.

Halberd is just staff with some fencing fitting and that was nothing to write home about for the fighters guild of the middle ages. The Fechtbucher (to use the German term but I mean everything we have from Europe) dedicate very little space to it compared to swords and wrestling because there really isn't that much to master. Especially if you're already versed with a longsword.

The German school of Fencing certainly subscribes to the idea (or at least Meyer said) Longsword was the true art and maybe it's the hardest to master. Who knows but it's a cinch compared to fucking knife whip bullshit. Fuck that.

Well a longsword is about 1lb heavier than a rapier, and i should have less hefty blade, and the dagger offers less protection than a shield.

I would think a rapier might struggle against a larger cutting sword that carries its weight in the blade.

>range
check
>lethal
check
>multi-purpose
check
>horrifically intimidating
double check

Chain weapons absolutely require the most training to master, I mean just think about it for a second. move those gears. pretty much every other melee weapon is about stabbing, parrying, slashing and clubbing, and practicing these forms. Chains add an entirely new dynamic that is ten times as complicated. This, along with production complexity makes them absolutely impractical for military use, same reasons europeans used bows instead of atlatls.

Other than the diverse utility and control you get from being good with a chain weapon, it is obscenely intimidating to fight against, which is a huge deal. It would be difficult to know how in control your opponent feels when they're swinging a chain around, for all you know they might see you as a toy and are ready for anything you might try to do.

>Post sources.
Amdur, Ellis "Kusarigama: The Chain-and-Sickle
>how is the trained swordsmen gonig to do a better job defending himself from the flail than a kendoka would.
>Probably by stabbing the wielder to death.

I take it from this absurd post you have little to no training in any form of swordsmanship.

Good luck stabbing the guy to death after you've taken a few hits from an iron ball. It will break bones, it will knock you out. You are not going to blindly charge through it and get at the guy with the sickle unscathed.

>t's game, and so far divorced form actual swordsmanship as to be worthless.

Yes most modern kendo is very divorced, but not all of it, and even then I would not call it worthless.

>fencing fitting
Fancy fittings*

>Well a longsword is about 1lb heavier than a rapier.
Actually rapiers are heavier as a standard and feel much heavier as they're held at arms length. Longsword spread between both hands and especially held in a low guard is very easy on the arms and it's part of the reason fencing instructors... at least of traditional schools... insisted on it's study long past it's extinction in the duelling circuits let alone the battlefield because kids can train it quite comfortably.

All comes down to the fencers. Common opinion is the Longsword is at a disadvantage because of the massive reach defecit. It's not top trumps i can go either way.

>Well a longsword is about 1lb heavier than a rapier,
No.

>I would think a rapier might struggle against a larger cutting sword that carries its weight in the blade.
You're wrong, and the widespread adoption of the rapier for unarmored combat in the face of cutting swords should have been enough to clue you into that fact.

it can go either way*

look at me correcting my posts on Veeky Forums. Time to die.

>You are not going to blindly charge through it and get at the guy with the sickle unscathed.
I'm not the guy you're arguing with, I posted I fully recognize chain weapons as the most complex to master, but charging into somebody with a chain weapon is the answer to fighting against them. Large amounts of a chain weapons practicality come from controlling your opponents movements through intimidation and threat of injury or entanglement, and if someone with a sword or something utilizes pure willpower they can just charge you full speed at an opportune moment and angle and fuck your shit up. The other option is to use a second appendage to tangle someone using an individual chain, making their chain end less useful. According to legend, this is what miyamoto did in the duel with baiken to defeat him, katana + wakazashi vs chain sickle.

Words.

How can you block with them?

Fair enough, i was incorrect.

If reach is a significant factor in the success of a duel would something like a partisan be the best option?

But charging like that poses some serious risks, one risk is that with a short chain you can do multiple strikes

ideally you entangle instead of block, followed by either martial arts or a sickle depending on the weapon to finish them. this weapon is not similar to other melee weapons, like 80% of it's usefulness is in controlling your opponents movements and injuring their confidence.

I am a well-practiced fencer, and I would not want to get close to this guy. I don't understand the full extent of what he can do.

youtube.com/watch?v=9hOL8juiy1w

yep. that's what makes chain weapons good. they're scary as fuck.

Oh reach is ALMOST everything in a duel. Certainly an unarmoured one.

Note this thread isn't The best weapon in a duel. That would be a silly thread not worth posting in. We're discussing hardest weapons to master but yes. A spear or polearm is the best option in an unarmoured duel. Simply because of the reach and the leverage of having your hands spread futher along the shaft makes the point faster and dexterous.

Swords are way cooler tho and take more skill. I mean any old dickhead could take on the best swordsmen with a spear. Not always a guaranteed win tho. Here's a shitty example pic. There are better of the sword guy alone succeeding.

>halberd
Certainly not since a lot of people used them.

The weapon that is hardest to master was probably rarely if ever used.

That's why I hate spears. They're boring as fuck and an average infantryman with a spear that understands the art of poking is probably just as effective as a practiced swordsman.

Hardest weapon to master is something that would require a lot of effort or time to get good at. A sling could take a long time to get proficient at, it has such an un-reliable projectile that if you were able to hit your target at distance 10 times in a row it would be a feat.

I say un-reliable in that there are many variables, such as weight and shape of a rock, direction and speed of wind. It is also difficult to throw something the exact same way each time.

Yes. In a vacuum, spears will usually fuck anything that isn't a greatsword.

As a rule of thumb, if they can strike you and you cannot at least threaten their hands, you are in trouble.

came for this.... this post is done

Why has nobody mentioned Indian weapons here? Those whip-swords, flying disks, and Katar's or whatever they're called are some of the most exotic and difficult looking weapons to master

Urumi, Indian flexible sword a.k.a whip sword

youtube.com/watch?v=fMz_Z0Xq-2I

Is a phallanx a weapon? Need to master sustainable multi-generation economics & subsistence, navigation, terrain, logistics, groupthink, etc etc

>Militia
Literally the most basic trooper ever.

Chakram India

youtu.be/B_cX1SwiC1Y

Madu

Haladi

FINALLY A WEAPON STRONGER THAN METAL GEAR

Katar

Scissor Katar

Talwar

Pata

Bagh Nakh, used as a concealed claw.

Khanda

Gada, A solid Iron mace.

It was taught for emergency self-defense, as a dagger is easier to carry and conceal than shields/bucklers.

What's with Indians and meme weapons?

Wouldn't swinging the chain and iron ball constantly be pretty tiring? How long is a practitioner expected to move it?

Indian weapons

Kek. One hit of that will destroy your ribs.

The bow

In the case of rapier and dagger, the dagger also compensated for the fact that rapier was difficult to use offensively when the opponent got close because of the length and poor cutting ability. Also against rapier, dagger is arguably better defense than a buckler, I've heard some argue.

Wouldn't it destroy the inner organs too? It would be pretty horrible if your armor is dented and it pressed towards your broken organs ribs.

And the same can be said for a single good hit with a standard mace. Trouble is you would never be hit with that giant mace because it's so slow and unwieldy.

The guy would fling the thing around, miss and get stabbed in a duel.

That's is why it was used as a training weapon, to build stronger grip and strengthen arms which is also why the wrestler is training with it.

Yup, a good hit can do that.

To be honest, I don't think disarming an opponent with a sword is as easy as that video makes it out to be. The person wielding the chain is just as likely to loose his grip of his opponent is of any worth.

Many practitioners actually agree with you, but kata were always meant as training exercises rather than "stories" of how a fight would go