How long will it be until we have affordable, long range electric cars...

governments are struggling to make up for lost fuel tax revenue due to electric vehicles

Will electric vehicles continue to get big tax benefits in addition to paying discounted electric rates?

electric cars are only viable in areas where it doesn't snow.

the oil industry sees the writing on the wall, a decent glut in the market and prices go fucked

they're diversifying assets into various other things, but still standing on oil pretty heavily.

Personally, I think we're at a total stalemate on all battery technology until we can integrate nuclear energy into the mix (safely).

So how long will it be? Maybe in our lifetime. Lol

And the oil industry isn't going to "push back" anything until they fucking run out.

Only people saying this are those who have something to gain from going all electric
Realistically within 3 years there won't have been much progress at all, and for a long time after that electric vehicles still won't be a viable choice for majority of families
Hybrid is what manufacturers should be focusing on (and are), is just lobbyists and greenies and ev manufacturers who keep pushing the all cars on road ev bullshit

Yep, electricity doesn't work in the snow

This, the worst of both worlds is clearly the best and the man is keeping it down

we already have fuel cells - just replace the gas stations with hydrogen stations. We should electrify freight transport (land and sea).

You always post sarcastic shit so I don't know what kind of reply this is meant to be

I'm my state, it costs extra to register a full electric car.

The issue is that even if super charging stations are more common, they still won't be able to really do road trips at all. And given a choice of more freedom and opportunities and less, people will almost always choose more.
It;s like if you have the choice between a house with a formal dining room and one without. Yeah you might not host a dinner party often, but if you get the house with the formal dining room you have the chance to do it.

They'll probably do something to diesel cars here in NZ where the fuel isn't taxed as such compared to petrol.
So to make up for it you pay for a road user charge for a set amount of mileage done, if you have gone over that distance paid then you can be fined.

wat

The rich oil arabs have bought pretty much all the patents for new battery tech

>How long will it be until we have affordable, long range electric cars?
FiveYears™
It's been FiveYears™ 15 years ago and 10 years ago and 5 years ago and it is FiveYears™ now.
Maybe they need to come up with a battery technology that isn't 40 years old first, I wish them good luck.

just get a nissan range extender.

why do you hate instant torque?

nuclear fusion is 50 years away.
>it's been 50 years.

>still won't be able to really do road trips at all
Don't know about you, after driving 4-5 hours i'm perfectly fine with dicking around with a nice lunch for an hour.

Maybe you should stop driving something invented in the 19th century then, fuckstick.

affordable =

>literally less than the all but the cheapest car.

Seriously by your standards internal combustion isn't feasible. Quite bieng so pathetically poor.

Also why before tax incentives? So even if you can afford a car after incentives it doesn't count just because you're a cunt?

This the battery swapping thing was a stunt, Tesla weigh 3 tons and half of that is just batteries

Why when the invention still works? electric motor + battery is another 100 years older and it has never been superior to the ICE at any time and it will never be.
But hey, keep falling for the meme, I'm sure Elon Musks Super Battery From The Future™ will change everything! Just give him a a few more years, like maybe 5 years and we will all be driving electric!

ride a bike if you enjoy instant torque so much.

Could easily be feasible if they wanted. Pack could slide out the back onto a cart and slide a new one in. Would be way easier than a motor swap if designed to do so and I've pulled several motors by myself. Two dudes with a dolly and well designed system could swap packs in less than a minute.

The truth is its not needed. Everyone makes the road trip argument but almost no one does that shit and you could just retain or rent a car for that once every 5 years occasion. This argument is like insisting on a minivan because you may have more kids over the coming years. Seriously no one should buy sedans I mean wtf will they do if the need to give 6 people a ride...sedans are simply unjustifiable.

no that's more like saying no one needs a bigger car than the original Mini because 90% of drivers drive around alone with next to no luggage. and that they can just rent a van if they need to move stuff.

Also true. Seriously though a mini does have some pretty serious limitations that would annoy most people several times a month likely. Unlike the road trip thing which is a once every 5th year thing for most. Obviously if you road trip every week it ain't for you but I'd bet less than 10% of the people on this board have been on a road trip that was unmanageable in a model s in the last 12 months and this is a god damn enthusiasts board.

Do what you want though I don't give a fuck. I personally have 4 cars and I drive the one that suits my needs for the trip at hand. Most of my freinds have at least 2 cars to pick from depending on their need for the day.

>just spend trillions on the hydrogen meme that still isn't working after billions more research than electric cars got

Leaks easily, corrodes everything, takes a lot of energy to process hydrogen, very inefficient..... But you knew all that before making such a retarded comment

>How much will the oil industry push back when we get to that point?

Since they own most gas station chain locations, they can re-gear a lot of those locations to have charging stations in order to maximize the value of their real estate. A lot of gas stations have wasted space and alcoves. The ability to put chargers and park cars in those locations for charging is lucrative. The store can then add a sort of cafe and lounge for customers to wait while their car charges up. There will be a profitable fee for re-charging of course. The bigger locations may even have jumper/recovery services and kiosks.

>long range electric cars?
The electric car industry needs to develop standards for recharging connectors. Otherwise all those gas stations and 7/11, Last Mile, AM/PM, and Circle K type convenience stores won't be able to add recharging stations.

>Superchargers could charge your car at 80 % in more or less half an hour.

It shortens battery life to charge them that way though.

>dangerous ultra capacitors
No worse than LIon batteries.

>Superchargers could charge your car at 80 % in more or less half an hour.
This fucks the battery big time.

Someone will build a car with changeable batteries and a bunch of automated battery swap stations. You pay a nominal fee for a freshly charged battery and a robo swap that gets them back on the road in the same or even less time than filling a tank with gas. This will be the new norm in 10 years.

If Tesla is changing a faulty or worn out battery for free for the lifetime of the car, then I would buy it.
Otherwise: No.

t.
Prius-Driver

Since the current subsidy has limits based on car company prices will likely remain the same (after a counting for subsady) for 2 more years. Then as volume picks up and infrastructure is built, costs will drop to $5k premium over gas versions of the same car. They will likely stay at that point for a long time 10 years at least.

Which is why you get the Volt instead, it has the gas generator that extends range 300 miles. Charge every night, use the battery, then gas if battery runs out.

>Probably fucking never since battery technology involving energy density hasn't gotten cheaper in years
Are you joking? Batery cost has gone down and storage density up dramatic ly every year for the last decade.

Just look at the size and capacity of cell phone bateries over that period. And even tesla has significant gains in it's bateries from initial release to today.

>How long will it be until we have affordable, long range electric cars?
Until gasoline/diesel is unfeasibly expensive for the common man, whether by natural causes or government regulation
>How much will the oil industry push back when we get to that point?
If there isn't enough oil to supply a common man's vehicle then there won't really be an industry to push back. If it's due to government regulation, expect the oil industry to shove money in politician's faces until the benefit of reverting to oil-based propulsion isn't worth the cost of lobbying.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government started doing that just to get lobby money desu. Bureaucrats are scuzz.

They should just eliminate things like gas tax and increase income or sales tax instead.

Hydrogen is a dead end. We already have electricity every where and the tech to use it.

What? Cost of the average new car sold is closer to $30k. $25k is considred budget model tier.

Those incentives will wind down aftee a certain number of cars are sold, and tesla and chevy are almost at that limit. I think Nissan as well.

I thought base Nissan Versa was

Tesla doesn't pass those saving on to consumers but eats it up as profit.

When people buy the car, they don't even get all the capacity of the batteries that they paid for. If they want to use more of the battery pack, they have to pay an additional fee. That was in the news last year if even anyone remembers something that far in the past.

Or charge more to register you're vehicle....it is road taxes they are supposedly trying to collect after all.

So you're going to drive a ~$5K car if you're in the median income range? Not saying this is bad just that that means a vast majority of people won't be owning anything made in the last 5 years. I'm sorry to me under $30k is cheap for a car insisting that $15k is the limit for what a brand new car should cost is insane.

>How much will the oil industry push back when we get to that point?
Not much, you still need oil to do everything related to building the car

>it has never been superior to the ICE at any time and it will never be

Currently, they're better at efficency (gas cars are improving as well and new technology is sure to improve it even further, such as generating power from exhaust heat) and 0-60 (low end acceleration, not high end)...and that's it.

How the fuck do you even sell your car when the lifetime of the battery ran out?

Tesla model 3 is due out soon(tm); >200 mile range, 30K price tag.
That puts it into my band of the market, assuming there's still life in the batteries after three years of use.

Once that's established, it won't be long before people start competing. Maybe Ferrari will put out a wholly electric car as a halo model. Lamborghini might, and there'll definitely be an electric porch.

Once electric cars are viable, the days of gas guzzlers are numbered. ICE cars are already becoming more efficient, and electric cars will only accelerate that. Hybrids will become a default.

Eventually, either the electric grid will catch up to demand (unlikely) and car parks everywhere will have charge points in every space, or there will be nearly no pure electric vehicles in common use in favour of plug-in hybrids. Or maybe just compact highly-efficient oil-burning generators to charge your car as you drive.

I see a shift to having solar panels everywhere; sunlight is free and they also provide shade. Maybe your fancy electric car will have them in the upper surfaces. Costs will go down once there's enough being made.

>Probably fucking never since battery technology involving energy density hasn't gotten cheaper in years
I know for a fact you're fucking wrong.
I can't go into details because of NDAs, but you're fucking wrong.

High capacity battery technology exists in laboratories but it's still too sketchy and unstable for customer use.

Hopefully it's in the next 10 years or so, Li-ions were 20 years from lab experiments to being available for consumer use. If people started working on battery technology instead of making up new gender pronouns we might be somewhere by now.

Were not even remotely close to to running out of oil but they'll try to fight battery technology.

I'm not telling anybody "you have to drive cars worth only up to 20% of your annual income" - that's just for me/now because I like to live debt free and I have to save money.
OTOH, the "3-5k civic/corolla" meme fits perfect here, so it shouldn't be wrong after all.

If we're talking about electroeconobox cars being massively adopted, I thought that "affordability" would mean, not a lot more compared with it's ICE counterpart.

>He drives a base Nissan Versa

I feel sorry for you senpai.

>dicking around with a nice lunch for an hour.

>nice lunch
>at a gas station / truck stop diner

You don't, new battery is probably worth more than the car at that point so you just scrap it and buy a new one.

That's why people called the early hybrid vehicles "disposable cars" because by the time someone drove them until the battery pack was on its last legs then the car wasn't even worth putting a new battery pack in. Automakers don't want people driving around in 10+ year old vehicles anyway, they'd rather everyone just buy a new vehicle every 5-10 years.

actually i have a base fit and my wife a spark

Electric cars will never be manufactured in the quantities of gasoline cars...

Electric cars and autonomous cars are really about ride sharing... Ford even admitted it: media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/08/16/ford-targets-fully-autonomous-vehicle-for-ride-sharing-in-2021.html

Not only do they want to take away our ICE engines and ability to drive ourselves, they want to take away private car ownership and rent "transportation services" to us, because ultimately services are more profitable than manufacturing.

The average person would be fine with having an autonomous uber-like service that would just send a car to the front of their house on request and drop them off wherever they needed to go.

I wonder how long it'll be before an autonomous vehicle could properly back itself up to my boat trailer, haul the boat to the lake, and position the trailer in the right spot on the boat ramp so I could unload/load the boat into and out of the water?

That will only work if batteries are universal.

Idk I bough a used insight with a toast battery. Picked up a bumblebee unit better than factory equipment. Got a 70mpg+ car on the cheap.

I remember when the early citron Berlingo EVs came round to 4 years and all the lithium batteries packed up, they were going for under £500 on ebay compared to £5k for the derv ones that had been £3k cheaper to begin with.

What kind of liberal arts campus fantasy world do you live in?
Even the normiest of clerks takes pride in having a car

Never because just replacing the battery every 10 years when charge range suddenly becomes only 50 miles or less will be the norm if you have not bought another one already. They would never be used cars that way, even if they had minimal use.

>Battery packing would be the future of car consumerism.

How long did it take us to standardize micro USB for charging mobile devices?

I'll let you know when it's been standardized.

>German government willing to pay you 5k when you decide to get an electric car
>no one buys them anyway
It's fun to watch ideologies getting shattered by reality.

Can we use mini-usb instead? The 2mm width of micro really stinks of planned obsolescence. Too much stress for a tiny port to handle

car engines are more efficient than the coal power plants that charge your batteries.

Because the car will be still fine, so they can just get a newer unit shoved in that's better than the initial battery ever was.

>autonomous uber-like service that would just send a car to the front of their house on request and drop them off wherever they needed to go
I would love that.
It'd mean that the roads would be WAY clearer, no parked cars to dodge constantly, and it's a wonderful way to get places cheaper than public transport.
I'd still own and run my own car, though.

>Too much stress for a tiny port to handle
Have you tried not abusing your phone?

Have you considered not being an autist who babies everything? I don't abuse my phone but it's an unfortunate fact of life that once in a while you will fumble and accidentally drop your phone for any number of reasons.

My phone can take drops into concrete. So can my MP3 player, portable speaker, and basically every other electronic item I own.

Have you tried not buying fragile electronics? Or, failing that, have you tried not abusing your fragile expensive iphone?

I meant the connectors, as in the dick part.

your autism is showing

Of course they don't. If they did the price would drop so fast that people wouldn't buy their cars due to lack of resale value.

If instead they keep the price the same, they get to eat up the profits, keep value of older models higher, and let inflatiron slowly bring the price down in a more controlled manner.

States prefer gas or sales tax as it also apply to people visiting or driving through. Registration fees/tax only comes from residents.

I really want to see more plugin hybrids. The Volt is perfect for the average user. 50 mile electric and 300 gas means almost everyone can comuter to work and back using only electric and still have the gas for longer trips. The alternative would be to own two cars. Something like a model 3 and a gas only car for longer trips.

They just need to start making plug in hybrid suv/crossovers that get 50 miles on the electric. Those would sell like hot cakes. And given how big those vehicles are I am suprized they don't exist.

You could fit the entire model 3 batery in one with little modification.

>No worse than LIon batteries
They will literally under go conflagration if they get too hot. Why do you think every car still uses a lead acid battery?

>>Probably fucking never since battery technology involving energy density hasn't gotten cheaper in years
>I know for a fact you're fucking wrong.
>I can't go into details because of NDAs, but you're fucking wrong.
You're fucking retarded if you think battery energy density has beaten out gasoline. It's the primary reason why electric cars don't have the range of gasoline vehicles

I'm not the one that breaks phones, butterfingers.

>300 gas
My car has like 400 just on petrol. American cars in general need to improve, that shows.

Batteries have gotten significantly better over the last few years, and battery energy density is getting cheaper.
I did not say 'cheaper than gasoline'. You're the illiterate retard.

>cheaper
Energy density has nothing to do with cost

Energy density is the amount of energy per volume you can achieve. Gasoline has amazing energy density

The only reason why batteries have "gotten better" is because the services that use them have become more efficient and use less energy