IIRC a tire's maximum peak force implies that it needs to have a little bit of a slip. Barely existant, a drift in a light way can "supposedly" increase the lateral force of a tire compared to the same tire at the same speed with full grip for about 5% or 10% increase. This number was much bigger in older tires, which some people say that's why old race car drivers drifted their cars in the exits.
If this is correct, its also the reason why it was explained GodHand beat takumi in a "its not drifting but not griping either" way. Using a VERY faint drift to increase the lateral force the tire could sustain with no lose of grip or forward grip. Of course, this could slightly increase tirewear.
Is it true that if it gets past that point you start hearing the screech? that if you are driving in a perfect circle in a certain speed, the optimal lateral force is the angle RIGHT BEFORE the screen starts to be heard in at least a tire?
Look at the top gear reasonably-priced car lap times. The most "boring" are usually the fastest.
But in high performance cars with low pro tires like 30 series there is such little deflection the faint drift technique doesn't work.
Anthony Carter
Yeah i think with F1 tires the peak lateral force of slip its like well under 5% and that's why they dont try to drift jack shit anymore.
But what i really wanted to know was if the screen appeared right after you went past the peak point. As a way to notice when you turn the tires too much or you are giving the rear too much gas.
I recall in a /r/eddit post that the screech appeared due to something about the air between the tires and the ground doing something weird, and i just wanted to confirm that.
Grayson Sanchez
I am not sure this works with today's tires at all, as they are about a foot wide, and have no sidewall.
Now that I think about it though, isn't drifting better for an awd setup? The idea being to get the rear tire out past the front so it gets more weight on it from the g-forces.
Blake Myers
Hell if I know but my assumption is if the vehicle is turning say left the forces will cause the deflection in the but they are also rubber and elastic. If there's not enough downward force keeping that car planted the tires will screech and what I guess, is vibrate as they slide sideways ever so slightly. This produces the speech.
Blake Nguyen
Yeah but i am SURE that i recall a good explanation about how before the tires vibrated due to the skid with the ground they would produce increased lateral force while maintaining front grip/speed
Juan Fisher
No there's no fixed correlation between noise and slip angle - in other words "it depends", on the tyre and the surface.
David Ross
Are you sure about that?
Lucas Walker
>Physics in a fucking weeaboo anime
Jesus christ, Veeky Forums, shut the fuck about about initial dicks.
There is no number, but there's a slight point of minimal drifting in which the contact patch both gets full traction ahead and a slight lateral force too, which helps with cornerin a little bit faster.
The reason why AWD cars are better on this subject its because with a FWD car the slip angle fucks up a little bit and the rear throws you off. With a RWD car you CAN get the optimal slip angle, but you will work hard to maintain it, while AWD will both stabilize itself when drifting and will avoid a lot of oversteer, making it easier to obtain that slip.
The reason why F1 cars dont do that its because either the tires they use dont have a slip coefficient, making it just faster to go full grip, or because they lose a lot of aerodynamic force with the slip, or both.
Look at old F1 cars before the tire tech was there, though, you'll see the semi-drift. Especially watch Senna. He had mastered slip and lateral translation - it's why he was the fastest in the rain.
Henry Stewart
Not exactly, slip angle as illustrated there is purely the mechanical deformation of the tyre between the rim of the wheel and the contact patch due to lateral force. This causes the tyre to "walk" across the track as the next part of the tyre to become the contact patch is slightly further out than the current contact patch. Despite the name there is no slippage involved and the tyre is still gripping up to the slip angle. Wide high profile tyres with a soft sidewall and low fill pressure have a higher slip angle than thin, or low profile tyres with a higher operating pressure. Apart from the increased life this is the major benefit of running wide tyres in race use. You can actually see the walking happening if you watch the super slow mo shots of the rear on F1 cars on high speed corners, especially from the Michelin early Pirelli days. It is very clear from some of the shots that the contact patch isn't sliding but the car is traveling sideways.
This is independent to the tractive wheelslip percent that is about 5% which is there you will get the greatest tractive force inline with the wheels rotation and bizarrely seems to be independent of the friction material pairing.
Joseph Robinson
So so far even scientists aren't fully aware of why the extra lateral force slip happens other than "it just happens and the more modern/higher tech the tire the less the coeficcient will be"?
Hudson Long
the sidewall having to deform so often will generate allot of heat in addition to this the contact patch is also grow and shrink and change position when the tire rolls
the lack of constant heat and grip is why this kind of thing is not done any more also the high risk of the tire de beading
Gavin Fisher
Can I get some source/background info on this?
I always thought the scene in Initial D showing it was pure bullshit, but I pulled it off earlier in DiRT: Rally which is admittedly not the best simulator, this picture is giving me second thoughts about levels of bullshit, however.
I need a video or something showing it preferably, but understand that prolly won't happen.
Am I correct in thinking it's probably easier/more feasible to do in midships where there's very little weight on the front end anyway?
Anthony Torres
Dirt rally as i understand is slightly better than RBR in terms of driving physics and as good as it will get for rally.
Its not just a deal about front vs rear but also a deal about left vs right. You are turning right and most of the weight is on the left side
Dylan Ross
Right.. that's pretty much what I did, ripped through a 90 degree left turn with a pretty big angle that I wasn't supposed to cut through. Had tried holding a similar line through the same corner twice before but failed, just magically got it to work somehow.
Guess I hit it with just the right angle and just the right speed.
Josiah Cruz
I think its just a matter of lateral Gs and how much movement was being made to the side.
Ideally in a flat track a harder suspension is better. It makes you lose as little speed as possible when cornering but too hard suspension will make your wheels skate. You wnat the opposite in these cases. A soft suspension will make a bigger effort to shift the weight balance of the car with less resistance, and in this case you would be able to keep the heavier parts of the car on the side that its in the road.
