/rlg/ Roguelike General

Fasists everywhere these days.

I told you it wouldn't work against Gtits.

>figure I can kill smaug for my third book
>get hex 3 as his drop
Oh right. Probably the least fun thing about skillmasters is that your drops don't change based on your skill choices.

Ouch

STOP posting poschengband

I DO NOT WANT to play poschengband

>STOP DOING THING
>I DON'T WANT TO DO THING TOO

Did they take your free will user
that's a horrible thing

I've been watching a dude play crawl and right off the bat he throws on fighting and maces. I was always told that you should only do one at a time.

I've been just putting on my weapon until min/delay, should I stop doing this? (I don't typically live until min delay)

Also, as a GrGl I don't know if I should be leveling str or dex. And I don't know how heavy of armor I should be wearing early game.

>Human Fighter
>D:3
>Going down corridor
>Suddenly Jessica, orc priest
>try running out of the priest's LOS
>Jessica blinks ahead and cuts me off
>priest just smites my ass until I die in four turns because armor is fucking worthless against smite damage
>no health pots whatsoever found in that time

TOTAL FUCKING BULLSHIT

Why is it so goddamn hard for me to get a Human Fighter just into Lair, forget actually getting a rune

You level Armor and Shield and his damage output is garbage, but you level Axes and his shield and armor end up fucking up most of his attacks

and then you've left Fighting unattended, so you end up going from 70 to 15 hp in a round once you meet your first hydra or bee swarm or similarly strong opponent

This is fucking stupid as hell

one at a time is more efficient but doing both and not micromanaging them is easier/lazier

He did fighting+maces since gargoyles have shit-tier HP, probably.

You would do the opposite on a troll, which has so much HP, that you can just leave UC until 15 at the start.

My personal method is to get my weapon swinging at 1.0(for war axes, they start swinging at 1.0 auts at 10 skill) which is when I train fighting in tandem with weapon skill until min delay.

Just do Str on a GrGl.

Senpai why you would you ever level armour or shields earlygame, they barely make a difference at that point compared to the damage increases from weapon skill or HP from fighting.

Do Fighting/Axes 33% / 66%
and hydras are honestly nothing at all, switch to a mace and EXPAND DONG, or just run around a pillar until it lags behind.

By the time you got one level in weapon skill at high level you could instead get several levels in fighting/armor/dodging making your character decent fighter instead of glass cannon.
This is why you should pay attention to skill cost.

alright max str for better EV and throw on plate when i can find it?

Yeah go for heaviest armour, heaviest 2-hander and go for Makhleb. He only needs 4 invocations for lesser demon to be at 1% hostile rate and 15/16 Invo for greater demon to be at 1% hostile rate.

But the real reason you Makhleb is for the healing on kills, which is retardedly strong and makes it so your low HP doesn't get whittled down too easily in big fights.

i can definitely see this as a meme you'd find in a binding of isaac fan group on facebook or something. this is not a good thing

The laziest way is just going GrBe fighting/weapon/armour/dodging 25% each, never ever touching it again.

>leveling shields

user, what are you doing...

The regular shield that you get as a Fighter should be discarded for 99 out of 100 characters. It adds like 3-4 auts to all of your attacks (effectively killing you), and it takes a long fucking time to get Shields to 15.

Now, if it were a *buckler*, then that'd be different, since you just need to get Shields to 4. But a regular shield doesn't deserve your earlygame XP being dumped into it.

>You hear the crackle of arcane power
>Mennas comes into your view
how long does it take for portals to expire again
I don't think I can get away from him

Shields are good, and the penalty only really matters for spellcasters.

No one should train shields earlygame, but the shield is what makes fighter a great background as opposed to a good background, which is even more emphasised for Trolls/Nagas/Formicids who can use large shields at 15 skill.

well...god damnit. Never had this happen before I was d8. Is it gg for me?

Probably.

lame I got marked in a narrow hallway and got cut off from both directions, got banished. It was from the disruption weapon right?

I've survived that at a similar level as a Gr of Chei,this is even easier for a Gr of Oka,, teleport at the first time of danger and haste if you can.

The biggest sources of spike damage(raijus) are mitigated by Gargoyle's rElec so you should really be good.

The bigger problem is why you're using a whip of flaming. Flaming is a multiplicative, not an additive brand like Electrocution, so that whip is doing about the same damage as a normal shitty whip. Should have used a normal flail or something.

>XL 10
Nigga you ded.

Start wandering and pray for imps and ufebutus to poach until you get a way out, because it's only a matter of time until some shit like a starcursed mass shows up to crap all over your day.

guys i picked the snail god by accident how do i do good with snail?

Distortion brand will do that, yeah. Was it Sonja or Psyche?

Punch things until you find statue form/blade hands

win

...I thought it was 5.6 for a buckler.

Depends on the size of your race, quoted from beem:
>You need 4/15/25 skill to eliminate evasion, melee speed, and casting penalties for bucklers/shields/large shields for normal races, 5.6/21/- for kobolds and halflings, 7.2/-/- for spriggans, 2.4/9/15 for nagas, centaurs, and formicids, -/9/15 for trolls and ogres.

>I was always told that you should only do one at a time.
You should, but it's not a bad idea to get a little more HP to avoid getting memed hard by Orc Priests, especially for a Gr

>should I stop doing this?
No, it's one of the first things you should aim for

>if I should be leveling str or dex
Str = Int > Dex (choose either Str or Int depending on your skill choices)

F

the wiki told me dex is just a better strength tho

the wiki is outdated, try not to rely on it too much

>Strength reduces penalties from wearing body armour; see aevp. Has a small impact on melee and launcher damage, roughly +25% of initial damage per 10 points of str above 10.

>Dex Increases accuracy by dex/2, chance of stabbing distracted mons and stealth as well. Plays a significant role in EV if you have dodging skill. Boosts ability to shield-block, especially for bucklers, less for large shields.
dgbe

Gargoyles are not really dodgy, if you need up to date information, check here (if you don't mind the awkward page):
crawl.develz.org/learndb/

Yeah but the grinding is *REALLY* fun

Just updated to PCB 5.0.5, can someone tell me how to get rid of all the grey x's that now take up unknown space, where before it was just black? It's fugly as fuck.
Also I think this is the earliest I ever found an artifact, Clvl 3 at 100ft, just a damn shame it was put on a broken sword, but it's still actually better that the standard katana. Such a waste of an awesome name for a weapon too...

thx

also anyone got advice on how to in general skill a char. ive never really understood it. i usually just pick a murder skill, train it and then occasionally a defensive skill if im killing hard enough

but then i run into something i cant kill hard enough and die

??famous last words

You're stupid!

>i run into something i cant kill hard enough and die
you are not supposed to kill everything, sometimes running for your life to the closest stairs is the best option, especially if you find Grinder, Edmund or fucking Purgy

Similarly, consumables are useless if you are dead, use them we all have gone through this

>but then i run into something i cant kill hard enough and die
Any specifics?

are you playing online?

Is it worth trying to branch into summoning late game as a tablord hillorc?

wrong thread, sorry
will delet

it's always worth to go with some magic into late game, pick your poison

summons will distract enemies, so it's a good choice

thanks
I was thinking either that or conjurations because of the books I found, but having a bigger wall for warlords to stab shit from behind might be more helpful

i usually fight things via sitting in corridors and run like a bitch at the slightest hint i need to

usually i die to things like my own ghost (which always seem to be far stronger than my own character even if we are literally the same. like they just dodge everything), trying to fight 1 goblin or something and then a ton just spawn out of nowhere. not really to uniques

usually i find i either die early on or i dont and i end up with such a ridic amount of movement options, los blockers, etc that im unlikely to ever die but forget to use them and die anyways

oh also forgot to mention im very fond of mage/melee chars. characters who use buffs, basically. but i always just end up feeling both bad at melee and magic

For almost all cases, specialization is the way to go until there's not much to gain from more training.

Yeah that's what happens when you hybridize. I recommend trying transmuters.

An shame. I wanted to do scald and do good at swords with magic on them

Transmuters are my most played start that I've yet to win on. No one really seems to know how to raise them. I've had the most luck basically just playing a monk (ie ignoring transmuting until unarmed is maxed) but then I got bored because I was playing a monk who just didn't start as a monk

>I wanted to do scald and do good at swords with magic on them

You could maybe train Short Swords instead, since they're faster and require less training to be mostly OK.

Eh I'll try that why not

Beats rolling another easy boring class like Mino berserker and dying of sheer boredom

Spider form and blade hands are overpowered as shit, jump on that train as early as possible
Or at least, they were

Waste of EXP desu. Stabbing becomes very difficult later on, and short blades are very bad at things that aren't stabbing.

I always end up just using spidder form to run. For some reason its absurdly easily killed by poison and by the time I'm not running into poison much I have ice form which just seems to perform better

Blade Hands I've never actually managed to get up and running. If I raise transmut to use it my damage sucks and I die. If I raise unarmed I never end up being able to raise transmut much before getting bored because I'm basically playing a monk

In both cases my defensive skills suck

I don't remember the exact option name but hit = to open options and go into, I think, visual? Not "interact with visuals" (that's tweak tiles). One of the ones in there, it has to do with traps.

Stop being bad. D:4 and D:5 is well within the range of where skill allocation doesn't matter the most

28% failure is not acceptable for a spell as shitty as earlygame blade hands. It is a good way to waste your mp though.

Good news! Whenever you run out of MP you can just... hold your breath... walk away! Pretty neat right, I bet you haven't thought of that cheat before huh?

>13 mana
>28% fail
You have a ~7% chance (which, since it's DCSS, will happen 100% of the time when you can't afford it to) to run out of mana every time you try to cast it from full mana, not to mention it costs all your food.

Sounds pretty terrible.

except for those times when you can't

Uhh, how exactly would you do this anyway? D4 to D6 is mostly cannon fodder and that is more than enough to get another failure rate decrease and some points in UC and you'll just keep on exponentially getting stronger because bladehands is dumb.

>walking away already by D5
>miscasts put you practically in the red for food

I bet you have starved to death more than zero times in DCSS, and that's proof enough you're a shitter. Spider form easily can get even a retard like you to lair, meanwhile ice form can clean up lair just as easily. Blade hands without chei is a meme, and an octopode using blade hands that early if ever is a double meme.

>food ever mattering
>on D:5

now THIS is what you call a meme

Most non-retards don't cast level 5 spells with 25% failure rates ;)

>walk away when OOM
>come back with full mana
turncount and food literally dont matter, so there's no downside to doing this in the rather rare possibility that you miscast bladehands enough to go oom

that's because they're using non-buff spells user
25% fail on fireball is awful
25% fail on spiderform is fine and dandy, unless maybe you're a naga

25% on spiderform is a lot different from 25% on bladehands at clvl 7, 4 casts compared to 2. 1% effective fail rate vs 12%.

>rare possibility
>12.5%

oh boy here we go

walking away is a lot different than not walking away

Walking away won't solve all your problems

and least that's what the people who love you would tell me if they existed!

so wait, do I wear it? Also what should I try and get for a weapon, going into mace and flails

Probably not. You're a Gargoyle, so your AC (if you don't fault) will eventually be high as fuck. You already have terrible EV with just chain mail and a shield, so gold dragon scales would put that at like 1-2 EV. The rPois would be nice for Lair (I'm assuming you haven't gone to Orc/Lair yet), but not really necessary.

I like M&F because they're quite versatile and usually pretty numerous. For 1H setups, you'll want an eveningstar, although you'll be more likely to find a morningstar (which is also halfway decent). The best standard 2H mace would be the great mace, which is extremely common in The Vaults. Demon whips and sacred scourges (most likely to find in the Depths) can be used to quickly take out enemies with crappy AC; with good brands (holy wrath against evil monsters; electrocution for everything else), they actually work as great standard weapons.

Being numerous is M/Fs only redeeming feature. In the end you'll just be a smart player and invest in either Long Blades or Axes because they're objectively better even with their reduced apts on a gargoyle.

thanks, also is it okay to finish dungeon before lair? Or is lair easier than the rest of dungeon i found lair late d11.

also, what should I start training? My EV is still low as fuck (5EV)

forgot pic

I 1-hit antaeus, Ereshkigal, and Lom Lobon, while a mighted Dragon, I couldn't believe it

Late Dungeon can sometimes be crazy, so you should do Lair beforehand. Especially as a Gargoyle, you should have no real problems in Lair besides the heavy hitters (elephants, death yaks) since you're immune to poison.

Armor would probably give you the most bang for your buck, since it would ease a little bit of the EV, too.

Dodging would be next, although you don't have to go crazy with it: just make sure its cost level is roughly the same as Armour's after you're done leveling it. You're likely not going to get your Dodging (and, thus, your EV) to a high number, but being able to outright avoid attacks is always nice.

Invocations also deserves some attention, since that's more offensive firepower for you.

guys I'm nervous as fuck about my ascension
I dont want to fuck up after I came this far
care to share some of your protips for me before I visit my stash for one last time and snatch the orb?

have you already punched the oofs between you and orb to death

because that's the most dangerous part, not the escape afterwards

already fucked up everything between me and the orb before I left for my stash
I'm nervous because I heard big monsters pop out of thin air and block your way as soon as you pick up the orb and this keeps happening until you leave the dungeon

well yeah that does happen
use some hastes and teles if a spooky panlord shows up

Whoa, since when does the black market sometimes only stock items you can equip?

Pan Lords and the somewhat rarer holy versions of them (Seraphim). Tier-1 demons and torment-users are fairly rare, although that shouldn't give you an excuse to dawdle around.

If you have a Holy Wrath branded weapon, it might not be a terrible idea to have it on you. You, of course, shouldn't *try* to fight Pan Lords -- or anything you see on the Orb run, for that matter. But if you find yourself about to get fucked, it's nice to have an offensive option.

For the truly paranoid, you might also want to use your wands of digging to create the quickest path to ascension on every floor from Zot to D:1 before grabbing the orb.

nah fuck it
the worst case scenario is that I die the heroes death and become the legend of the "arch wizard that almost had it all"
here we go boys

And of course, don't be afraid to teleport yourself (scroll/wand/etc.) if you run into trouble. It'll be delayed, sure, but if you've already cleared and mapped out the floors beforehand, it'll be worth the effort.

See how good Gargoyles are at Long Blades? This is truly the greatest optimal choice right here until you get bored because it's too strong.

>kill the son of a bitch
That's not really ladylike.

and its over, the legendary artifact orb of zot along with four runes are mine
first time that I actually got this far and its really satisfying
honestly this ascension was the most thrilling part of the dungeon and I went below 20 HP three times
oh by the way

>By the way you're playing, I'm surprised you got this far
TAKE THAT user AHAHA I GOT THE ORB and thanks again for the advice

grat

>4 runes
which 4?
did you do vaults + abyss?

I've seen this happen before as well, and it seems to affect random quest drops as well. Playing a centipede and a random quest reward was literally 4 exceptional pairs of boots, and I must have read 4-5 scrolls of acquirement and they were all either boots or rings. No idea what causes it though. I think when it happened to me it was just the regular armor shop though, not the black market.

yes I did vaults and abyss with swamps and spider nest
abyss fucked me up with mutations so I decided to go for the orb before my luck runs out

random quest rewards and acquirement are guaranteed to always give you usable shit

it's quite nice on a ring mimic when you just get a pile of 5 high-level rings with maybe an artifact in there