So some illiterate jew gets shish-kebab'd in the capitol of buttfuck nowhere sheep-herderville like 7 million other...

Reminder that the Holy Shroud is authentic.

Keep mocking the "jew on a stick".

Christ truly rose from the dead.

You're in for a shock.

Claims require proof, friend.

The countries with the highest atheist population have either been the victim of forms of protestantism or forms of communism.

The world will never be atheist.

Stay delusional though.

>Something that is purely actual, with no unrealized potentials, must be omnipotent. To not Be able to do something is to have an unrealized potential.
If it existed before/outside the universe and therefore potential, then it no unrealized potential because it had no potential at all. Meaning rather that this omnipotence would be identical to impotance.

>As the grounding of all true propositions, it would not have knowledge but rather be knowledge itself. To lack knowledge is to have unrealized potential.

okay, so ignoring my last point which is also nullifies this one. This would mean that this pure actual would have to be the universe itself, therefore being all knowledge. However being knowledge is not omniscience, omniscience would be a sentience which knew all knowledge. And there's nothing here to suggest that the universe as a whole is sentient, and plenty to suggest it isn't. Therefore this actual is not God.

>Physical substances can change location, form, ect, all of which are unrealized potentials. So something purely actual must be non-physical.
Correct, in essence it would not be physical, it would be what the physical is made of. But some of it would have to be physical, otherwise it would have unrealized potential.

>A flaw or imperfection is a potentiality, and something purely actual would not have any imperfections and so would be perfect.

To be completely perfect, this actual would also have to contain every possible perceived imperfection also, because otherwise it would have the potential have these imperfections. Therefore it could not have the agency to judge as a whole, and would only be perfect as a whole. Therefore it could not be God.

Anyone see any flaws in my reasoning?

No it won't, it will just becaume irreligious, like large parts of Europe already are. Christinaity just will fade out, an no major religion will replace it.

Well, no writings form jebus, the earliest testaments are 30-50 years after he was nailed. And of course, everything is absolutely true in them, nothing added, nothing altered, because hey, what religious person would do such a thing ;-)

Fedoras seem to forget that most humans have an innate longing for the metaphysical regardless of whether they call themselves religious or not, that's why so many people who share "the Friendly Athiest" memes on goybook are into crystals and Wicca and non-sense like that.

Only the truly autistic have no desire for religion.

I'm imagining it. And its much better.

Until a crisis strikes and people return to the comfort of religion

You need to be 18 years old or more to post here kiddo

...

Bullshit. And not an argument.

>Only the truly autistic have no desire for religion.
Most people in Europe never go to church. In fact, organized religion hast lost most influence on society and politics in Europe long ago, there is now a religious minority, and it gest smaller every year. And you know what, life is still great, no one misses the bigott bastards.

Keep telling that yourself, it is your only hope. But then, if WW2 didn't help, what will?

>tfw atheism is linked to autism

Feels logical actually.

That I am.

Shame there's no requirement to have a brain, or you'd be unwelcome.

>bigott

Damn, sick comeback bro; be sure to tell your internet friends on /r/atheism all about it

>mad

...

>ITT christcucks on suicide watch
>no, it is all true, I know it sounds like every other religious scam, but this is the one true religion and I organized my whole life according to it.

>there's a lot of religions in the world!
Okay.

Nice, they started to sell churches where I live, apparently they don't need them anymore, because no one goes to church anymore. They are currently renovating one to become a nigth club, can't wait to go there, get a drink and toast to the ones that still think that Christianity is not declining.

>where I live
Where?

There is literaly thousands of believes and creeds out there, well maybe not in Kansas.
>lovely map, giving as 50% Christfag when they are in fact 80% Atheist or non-believer.
>No no no, it just can't be
>but every year, there are fewer and fewer religious people in the western world
Deal with it, you are going down

>They are currently renovating one to become a nigth club
I hope pic related happens.

Yurop, right in the middle

>they are in fact 80% Atheist or non-believer
?
>you are going down
Not me, the world.

Czech Republic?

Kek, and you think that the "non-religious" are just gonna be fine and not overtaken by Islam?

>Its that user who posts unsolicited images from /pol/ thinking its evidence.

I especially like how the first one has cropped 'The Daily Mail' out of view.

Why would one give up middle-eastern-bronze-age-fairtyle 2.0 for middle-eastern-bronze-age-fairtyle 3.0, this time just without booze and porkchops?

Seriously, you must be from the US, no one here is so hysteric about the mudslimes, sure, no one likes them, but then, most of them turn irreligous anyways and the other are an even smaller minority than the christcucks.

>Canada has irreligous majority, so does Australia.
>And the trendline is clear

I don't browse /pol/.

Yep.

>Spain
>50% irreligious
I don't think so.

>Canada
>Australia
Because of protestantism.

hmm

You know that image is mocking you right?

Yes, they are, at least to the Gallup poll. They have many churches, it is true, just no one goes there anymore. Most people have turned their backs on organized religion.

not being a part of an organized religion =/= irreligious my fedora friend

Atheism != Irreligion
If they never go to church, never believe in some organize religion, and and also vote like that, I can live with it perfectly fine that you do not call them atheists.

>Persons with Developmental Disabilities Edmonton Community Board
>the sodomite flag
Nah, they're ridiculing themselves my nu-male friend.

Yes, I know that, and so does Gallup, but if people say they do no practize a religion, are not member of a religion and do not believe, than that makes them irreligious.
You'd know if you'd live in Europe, most people her simply do not give a shit about religion anymore, yet they still live good lifes.

>Lot of cropping going on there CNS.
>Its like you don't want us to know where these screencaps are coming from.

>Yes, they are
No they're not and even if they were it would be a reaction to the fascist regime.

As I said, what causes atheism in historically Christian societies is always either forms of protestantism and/or forms of communism (or just liberalism). Ex: France, Czech Republic, 1st Portuguese Republic, Soviet countries, Scandinavia, Germany, etc.

Because you can't be certain that when you die you will be in an terrible place for not listening, who knows? The rides been awful so far, why shouldn't I believe the one responsible for creation is nuts?
You can see the process of how only a story, a meme, can capture minds, making them submit.

Obviously now we're more able to find similar threats made by 'other gods', and less inclined to stay subscribed as a result.

Maybe the tale began as a metaphor, and was mostly lost in translation.

>Even the disabled look down on religautists.
Kek

See Nice try.

That statistic has been confirmed by others as well; your stubborn denial puts me in the mind of zealots
I do live in Europe, and I can tell you that at least in my city I've seen people slowly become more religious

>tale began as a metaphor, and was mostly lost in translation
There is no tale and see Nothing has been lost.

>I do live in Europe, and I can tell you that at least in my city I've seen people slowly become more religious
Nice, where do you live?

>People turning there backs on Christianity is always caused by people turning there backs on Christianity

Wow. No shit user.

>he still doesn't get that he's being mocked

Maybe the autistic link is correct after all

Poland

Yes. Even the Muslims themselves become increasingly irreligious, depending on which generation of an immigrant they are.

>Because you can't be certain that when you die you will be in an terrible place for not listening, who knows?
Better pray to the correct of the 2.917.511 versions of god(s) people came up with, then. Loki and Shiva won't be pleased to hear that you sinned by praying to YHWH, and maybe God even wants you to be an Atheist.
Your chances to win the gamble are close to 0.

I've already replied to both of them user.

>Even the Muslims themselves become increasingly irreligious, depending on which generation of an immigrant they are.
Completely incorrect.

If anything, it's been found out that the sons and grandsons of migrants are more traditionalist and religious than their forefathers.

>and maybe God even wants you to be an Atheist.

That doesn't even make sense

>I can't read

See

>I can't comprehend.

>I put words in the mouths of my opponents so I can strawman like an autist and fool myself into thinking I'm winning the argument
It's time to stop posting buddy.

>That doesn't even make sense
Deism.

>tips mitre

Wasn't a strawman, it was a logical deduction of meaning.

>n-n-no I swear I wa-wa-was just...
ok kid

What's wrong with tipping a mitre, my plebeian trilby-wearing atheist nu-male friend?

Edgy

Because your beliefs are based on feels, not reals.

Wrong.

>Sorry to break it to you kid, but morality isn't relative.
Yes it is you simplistic retard.

And I can find first editions of the Book of Mormon and the Book of the Law.

Now that is a strawman.

So what? There still are a gajillion conceptions of God, even if they aren't majority positions.

>Completely incorrect.
Nope, fully depends on the group.
zfs-online.org/index.php/zfs/article/viewFile/1305/842

>That doesn't even make sense
Maybe there's a God of rationality that sees virtue in not being believed in. God isn't dependent on your faith like a crack whore.

What's so special about your religion? Do you have actual scientific evidence for it besides "muh degeneracy, muh tradition, billions of people can't be wrong?"

>No they're not and even if they were it would be a reaction to the fascist regime.
According to the Gallup poll form 2014, 20% of Spaniards identify as coonvinced atheists, and another 35% as "not a religious person"
wingia.com/web/files/richeditor/filemanager/Spain_Tables_V3_a.pdf
Table 10. And the facist regime is gone for 35 years now.

Must suck when relaity differs from your little book. Now you can pray and peach fire and brimstone and so on, but when the 2016 polls come, more people will be irreligious, less people will go to church and the influence of religion on society and politics will diminish even further. Best thing for me, I do not even have to do anything, just sit back and enjoy the show. And before long, Christianity in Europe will just be another small sect amongst many others that sell spirituality for the masses.

>comparing the book of mormon to the Holy Bible
bait?

cesletter.com/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf

So do you take every insane verse bible literally or do you pick and choose from the feel good parts?

They have a book, and that books says that that book is universaly true.
End of scientific evidence.

>Do you have actual scientific evidence
Of course I do!

youtube.com/watch?v=EZKocFGQf24
youtube.com/watch?v=Hp8AF7i9A3U

Summary of scientific and historical evidence supporting the authenticity of the Shroud:
newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

Shroud-like coloration of linen by nanosecond laser pulses in the vacuum ultraviolet (it explains that they replicated the shroud's qualities using laser pulsations, which so far is the only way anyone has been able the replicate the shroud's qualities):
sindone.info/DILAZZA3.pdf

Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of Turin:
shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF

Nuclear imaging:
shroud.com/pdfs/whanger.pdf
shroud.com/pdfs/accett2.pdf

Raymond N. Rogers' observations and conclusions:
shroudnm.com/docs/2013-01-10-Yannick-Clément-Reflections-on-Ray-Rogers-Shroud-Work.pdf

Also, here's some secular peer-reviewed scientific journal articles on the Shroud of Turin:
shroud.typepad.com/topics/2005/10/secular_peerrev.html

The book of Mormon is to the Bible what the Bible is to the Tanach. Fan fiction.

I'm not proddy so I know which stories are not meant to be taken as history.
>do you pick and choose from the feel good parts?
I'm also not a liberal "Christian" so I have no problem accepting every single biblical teaching including that homosexuality is in fact an abomination and that homosexuals deserve to be put to death.

>Shroud of Turin
Interesting enough, most scientific research indicates it is indeed a forgey from the 14th century. But Christcucks want to believe. And to do that, you gotta come up with some pseudo science.
>shroud.com/nature.htm

Not really since jews do not deny the existence of Christ and at the time didn't even deny His miracles, they just called Him a magician. Try again. Oh and what happened in AD 70 actually happened, as Christ prophesied.

>most scientific research
Quite the contrary.

Also:

The 1988 Carbon-14 tests done at Oxford, Zurich and Arizona Labs used pieces of the same sample cut from a corner.

1. A paper published in Jan 20, 2005 in the journal Thermochimica Acta by Dr. Ray Rogers, retired Fellow with the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory and lead chemist with the original STURP science team (the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project, involving approximately 35 scientists directly examining the Shroud for five days), has shown conclusively that the sample cut from The Shroud of Turin in 1988 was taken from an area of the cloth that was re-woven during the middle ages. Here are some excerpts:

"Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area, coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations, prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon date was thus not valid for determining the true age of the shroud."

"As part of the Shroud of Turin research project (STURP), I took 32 adhesive-tape samples from all areas of the shroud and associated textiles in 1978." "It enabled direct chemical testing on recovered linen fibers and particulates".

"If the shroud had been produced between 1260 and 1390 AD, as indicated by the radiocarbon analyses, lignin should be easy to detect. A linen produced in 1260 AD would have retained about 37% of its vanillin in 1978…The Holland cloth, and all other medieval linens, gave the test [i.e. tested positive] for vanillin wherever lignin could be observed on growth nodes. The disappearance of all traces of vanillin from the lignin in the shroud indicates a much older age than the radiocarbon laboratories reported."

(1/2)

"The fire of 1532 could not have greatly affected the vanillin content of lignin in all parts of the shroud equally. The thermal conductivity of linen is very low… therefore, the unscorched parts of the folded cloth could not have become very hot." "The cloth's center would not have heated at all in the time available. The rapid change in color from black to white at the margins of the scorches illustrates this fact." "Different amounts of vanillin would have been lost in different areas. No samples from any location on the shroud gave the vanillin test [i.e. tested positive]." "The lignin on shroud samples and on samples from the Dead Sea scrolls does not give the test [i.e. tests negative]."

"Because the shroud and other very old linens do not give the vanillin test [i.e. test negative], the cloth must be quite old." "A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests that the shroud is between 1300- and 3000- years old. Even allowing for errors in the measurements and assumptions about storage conditions, the cloth is unlikely to be as young as 840 years."

"A gum/dye/mordant [(for affixing dye)] coating is easy to observe on…radiocarbon [sample] yarns. No other part of the shroud shows such a
coating." "The radiocarbon sample had been dyed. Dyeing was probably done intentionally on pristine replacement material to match the color of the older, sepia-colored cloth." "The dye found on the radiocarbon sample was not used in Europe before about 1291 AD and was not common until more than 100 years later."

"Specifically, the color and distribution of the coating implies that repairs were made at an unknown time with foreign linen dyed to match the older original material." "The consequence of this conclusion is that the radiocarbon sample was not representative of the original cloth."

(2/3)

"The combined evidence from chemical kinetics, analytical chemistry, cotton content, and pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry proves that the material from the radiocarbon area of the shroud is significantly different from that of the main cloth. The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the shroud."

"A significant amount of charred cellulose was removed during a restoration of the shroud in 2002." "A new radiocarbon analysis should be done on the charred material retained from the 2002 restoration."

Raymond N. Rogers. 20 January 2005. Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of turin. Thermochimica Acta, Vol. 425, Issue 1-2, Pages 189-194.

2. The Fire-Model Tests of Dr. Dmitri Kouznetsov in 1994 and Drs. John Jackson and Propp in 1998, which replicated the famous Fire of 1532,
demonstrated that the fire added carbon isotopes to the linen.

Dmitri Kouznetsov, Andrey Ivanov, Pavel Veletsky. 5 January 1996. Effects of fires and biofractionation of carbon isotopes on results of radiocarbon dating of old textiles: the Shroud of Turin. Journal of Archaeological Science, Volume 23, Issue 1, Pages 109-121. doi:10.1006/jasc.1996.0009

Jackson, John P. and Propp, Keith. 1997. On the evidence that the radiocarbon date of the Turin Shroud was significantly affected by the 1532 fire. Actes du III Symposium Scientifique International du CIELT, Nice, France.

(3/3)

newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

New experiments date the Shroud of Turin to the 1st century AD. They comprise three tests; two chemical and one mechanical. The chemical tests were done with Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR) and Raman spectroscopy, examining the relationship between age and a spectral property of ancient flax textiles. The mechanical test measured several micro-mechanical characteristics of flax fibers, such as tensile strength.

The results were compared to similar tests on samples of cloth from between 3250 BC and 2000 AD whose dates are accurately known. FTIR identifies chemical bonds in a molecule by producing an infrared absorption spectrum. The spectra produce a profile of the sample, a distinctive molecular fingerprint that can be used to identify its components. Raman Spectroscopy uses the light scattered off of a sample as opposed to the light absorbed by a sample. It is a very sensitive method of identifying specific chemicals.

The tests on fibers from the Shroud of Turin produced the following dates:

FTIR = 300 BC ± 400 years; Raman spectroscopy = 200 BC ± 500 years; and multi-parametric mechanical = 400 AD ± 400 years. All the dates have a 95% certainty.

The average of all three dates is 33 BC ± 250 years (the collective uncertainty is less than the individual test uncertainties). The average date is compatible with the historic date of Jesus’ death on the cross in 30 AD, and is far older than the medieval dates obtained with the flawed Carbon-14 sample in 1988. The range of uncertainty for each test is high because the number of sample cloths used for comparison was low; 8 for FTIR, 11 for Raman, and 12 for the mechanical test.

The scientists note that “future calibrations based on a greater number of samples and coupled with ad hoc cleaning procedures could significantly improve its accuracy, though it is not easy to find ancient samples adequate for the test.”

(1/2)

They used tiny fibers extracted from the Shroud by micro-analyst Giovanni Riggi di Numana, who gave them to Fanti. Riggi passed away in 2008, but he had been involved in the intensive scientific examination of the Shroud of Turin by the STURP group in 1978, and on April 21, 1988 was the man who cut from the Shroud the thin 7 x 1 cm sliver of linen that was used for carbon dating.

These tests were carried out in University of Padua laboratories by professors from various Italian universities, led by Giulio Fanti, Italian professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at the University of Padua’s engineering faculty. He co-authored reports of the findings in 1) a paper in the journal Vibrational Spectroscopy, July 2013, “Non-destructive dating of ancient flax textiles by means of vibrational spectroscopy” by Giulio Fanti, Pietro Baraldi, Roberto Basso, and Anna Tinti, Volume 67, pages 61-70; 2) a paper titled “A new cyclic-loads machine for the measurement of micro-mechanical properties of single flax fibers coming from the Turin Shroud” by Giulio Fanti and Pierandrea Malfi for the XXI AIMETA (Italian Association of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics) congress in 2013, and 3) the 2013 book “Il Mistero della Sindone” (The Mystery of the Shroud), written by Giulio Fanti and Saverio Gaeta in Italian.

(2/2)

newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

The cool thing is, in 50 years you likely be still telling the same bullshit stories, just that there are no more than 15-20% of Christians around for your given population. And the others will do the same as I do, shrug, do the 180° and enjoy live without religion.

>I'm not proddy so I know which stories are not meant to be taken as history.

How do you know which ones are which? Why has the Catholic church repeadedly flip flopped on what parts are literal? Could it be that the clergy is not divine, but humans changing their religion to be more palatable to current social and scientific sensibilities? Why would the disciples make it totally unclear which parts of the bible are literal anyway?

>no argument
As always. Those "stories" (history) have been told for two millenia and will be told until the end of time. Deal with it my fedora friend.

This paradigm assumes that the radiocarbonists’ claim that the Shroud of Turin is a 14th century forgery is correct. It is based on what that conclusion tells us about the forger. It tells us that:

1. The forger first painted the bloodstains before he painted the image.

2. The forger integrated forensic qualities to his image that would only be known 20th century science.

3. The forger duplicated blood flow patterns in perfect forensic agreement to blood flow from the wrists at 65° from vertical to suggest the exact crucifixion position of the arms.

4. The forger "painted" the blood flows with genuine group AB blood that he had "spiked" with excessive amounts of bilirubin since the forger knew that severe concussive scourging with a Roman flagrum would cause erythrocyte hemolysis and jaundice.

5. The forger "plotted" the scourge marks on the body of the "man in the shroud" to be consistent under forensic examination with two scourgers of varying height.

6. The forger also duplicated abrasion and compression marks on the scourge wounds of the shoulders to suggest to 20th century forensic examiners that the "man in the shroud" had carried a heavy weight following the scourging.

7. The forger, against all convention of medieval artistry, painted the body he was "hoaxing" as Jesus of Nazareth, nude to conform to genuine Roman crucifixions.

8. The forger, as the forensic genius he was, illustrated the nails of crucifixion accurately through the wrists rather than the hands as in all other conventional medieval representations. He also took into account that the thumbs of a crucified victim would rotate inward as a result of median nerve damage as the nails passed through the spaces of Destot.

9. The forger was clever enough to "salt" the linen with the pollens of plants indigenous only to the environs of Jerusalem in anticipation of 20th century palynological analysis.

10. The forger was an artist who surpassed the talents of all known artists to the present day, being able to "paint" an anatomically and photographically perfect human image in a photographic negative manner, centuries before photography, and be able to do so without being able to check his work, close up, as he progressed.

11. The forger was able to paint this image with some unknown medium using an unknown technique, 30-40 feet away in order to discern the shadowy image as he continued.

12. The forger was clever enough to depict an adult with an unplaited pony-tail, sidelocks and a beard style consistent with a Jewish male of the 1st century.

13. The forger thought of such minute details as incorporating dirt from the bare feet of the "man in the shroud" consistent with the calcium carbonate soil of the environs of Jerusalem.

14. This forger was such an expert in 20th century biochemistry, medicine, forensic pathology and anatomy, botany, photography and 3-D computer analysis that he has foiled all the efforts of modern science. His unknown and historically unduplicated artistic technique surpasses all great historical artists, making the pale efforts of DaVinci, Michaelangelo, Raphael and Botticelli appear as infantile scribblings.