You have exactly 10 seconds to explain why Universal Basic Income isn't the future

>It'll just come back to the government

Broken window fallacy. This is basic economics

at that cost the government would have to literally privatise everything in order to pay for UBI

nothing wrong with running a small deficit every year but with all government expenses + UBI on top of that? yeah nah

>It's basic economics

wew

>let's pay people to not work
>work doesn't get done
>nobody pays taxes
>oh no

Yes obtaining that amount of money would be extremely difficult and that is a problem. Maybe you can start out small? It doesn't have to be a big shock and pretending that UBI is impossible because you absolutely need all this money up front is silly.

Who pays you to shill for UBI on this forum? Kill your self

u mad bitch

Kys shill

a universal income means the people at the top of the economic foodchain will suddenly not have the ablity to influence markets for personal gain via inflation etc

the people with the power to do this never will, because it fucks up what theyve built after all these decades

well when people first started discussing UBI i assumed they were referring to giving the unemployed a living wage, and to give the underemployed enough money per week / fortnight to bring them above the poverty line

the Finnish government want to give everyone in the entire country the same amount, regardless of how much they earn, which is absolutely retarded. UBI would be paid out in weekly or fortnightly instalments, its not like people would receive their yearly allowance all at once, which would prevent excessive spending if citizens we able to get full time jobs, leave the country, ect (if the system functions like i described above).

in order for the government to pay for something like this they would have to nationalise a considerable amount of the countries industry and raise taxes across the board

If UBI was in place, would there be a need for a minimum wage? Food for thought.

Jobs give people something to do every day, it's not always about money. If you had ever held a job you'd understand.

most of the countries (nordic) that they keep talking about implementing UBI in dont actually have a mandated minimum wage, they have a strong union presence instead which succeeds in negotiating what would be considered a "reasonable" wage

It would be tougher for eurozone countries because they can't print their own money. And the people who didn't need UBI would probably be paying back what they get and more anyways.

At the end of the day UBI is going to need be paid for by the ultra rich, problem is no one has figured out a way to tax them fairly without dragging everyone else down.

I'd list every flaw with Capitalism, but it'd be too long.

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>no really guys it's not communism

Inflation will destroy any UBI scheme.

Also, personally I find it morally wrong, because some of the money will be used to buy drugs. So, we have my tax money directly subsidizing the cartels.

Why would anyone in power agree to give the poor people a stable income in which they gain nothing from them?

The closes thing i can see to UBI is maybe McBucks or Walmart $$, where you're only eligible to spend it at participating retailers.

Why do you think Obamacare is a thing and not UBH?

not if you made all drugs legal

politics, the reason basic income for everyone wouldn't work is that people want more.
look at the poverty line. you will be poor even if you made double that.
being house poor is a thing. people buy stupid shit to keep up aperiences I know people who fall in debt and buy shit at target instead of the little Mexican grocer on the bad part of town. you can buy the exact same shit for 75% less money. the quality may vary a little but wtf. I gess being poor makes you stupid.

This is the kind of thing that happens when being poor is shameful as a society. People will do anything to avoid being labelled poor.

As much as /pol/ wants to believe that poors are lazy and worthless, people are ultimately a product of their environment. If you keep withholding resources from them, lock them into the ghettos and constantly shame them for existing, they are just going to get stuck in a perpetual cycle for generations.

And at the end of the day, taxpayers are responsible for what happens to society. You can either pay up and keep everyone happy and productive or you can continue to have entire pockets of cities (and the countryside for that matter) be no-go Day-Z hellscapes.

>implying UBI wouldn't be fixed to the average rate of inflation and even then still be adjusted yearly

Stop being daft, newfag.

I'm afraid, 10 sec is not enou...

Some of this money will fund terrorism and people trafficking too. What next, Einstein, legalise those too?

>So, we have my tax money directly subsidizing the cartels

it already does

> the "everybody wants to work!" meme
People want to retire or do something cool like paint or camp or shoot guns or do competitive speedboat racing. There aren't enough people that want to actually do the boring jobs that need to be done.

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For fuck's sake

The reason it won't work is because the people having to fund this (working people) will think "fucking hang on, this is dumb, why am I paying for other people to lounge about, while I slave at work every day trying to climb the corporate ladder"

Then again I guess you could make the same argument about benefits

I guess this idea is literally just benefits, but bigger. Bigger benefits.

People don't love benefits as it is so I don't think they'll love this idea. We've got stricter on benefits in this country (the UK) in the last few years so hopefully we'll get even stricter still. Loungers should be shot 2bh.

The reason why it will never work is tha

Look you commie faggots, you shit has failed again and again and again and this repacking will fail as well.

Take your gulag loving asses wad up a photo of stalin and choke to death

Practically: it will just devalue money. Goods and services (rent, utilities) will just get hiked in price as everyone can now afford it - and anybody who doesn't qualify for neetbux is now correspondingly poorer.

Morally: why the fuck is anybody entitled to what they didn't earn?

Then the boring jobs will pay more, become less boring, or get automated. Not like the free market is going away.

>UBI is going to pay for my speedboat and all my guns
Seriously dude? The key word we are looking for here is universal BASIC income.

Every leisure activity you mentioned there costs money. UBI wouldn't be enough to pay for this. Let's not pretend UBI is like winning the lottery and you are set for life, it would just be enough to pay for the basic necessities. You'd still need a job to pay for leisure.

Side note, if you are remotely successful in your hobby and you can figure out how to get people to pay you to do it, even in small sums it would help to diversify our society and perhaps create new industries. Think lower-tier athletics and e-sports, artists, cooks or any other very underpaid sector. It would also make entrepreneurship or running a small business more accessible because people wil know you can lose it all knowing you have a safety net.

The wonderful life of living in someone's basement apartment eating instant noodles. Damn I wish I could be that successful.

You fucking imbeciles, the whole point of UBI is that EVERYONE gets it, regardless of income. But hey this is Veeky Forums so why would I think anyone would be familiar with anything relating to economics?

If the min wage is not fixed to inflation, then ubi won't have a hope of that. Keep dreaming.

>You have exactly 10 seconds to explain why Universal Basic Income isn't the future

Because it's against human nature. A UBI would fail in the same ways that communism has failed throughout history.

Housing, healthcare and education will go up until the universal will only afford you them.

i would assume that if ever reaching UBI, we'd have everything else in a row as well. healthcare, education, social and foreign policy and etc.

i would think by then we'd have a more informed poor class and better ways to benefit.

Our money would become so worthless, they would just be giving out free toilet paper.

You can't give somebody something without first taking it from somebody else.

I feed my cats guaranteed and they catch less mice.

We already have a pilot program for UBI. It's called our private prison system.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

So you're saying they'll be motivated to work because they'll find the basement life so shitty that they'll aspire to something else?

Have you ever visited Veeky Forums?

>You fucking imbeciles, the whole point of UBI is that EVERYONE gets it, regardless of income.
Okay. But all that means is that working people will have to pay a massive chunk out of their salary, only for some of it to come back to them, right?

It will have to be a massive chunk, otherwise the economics of paying EVERYBODY won't stack up.

But hey this is Veeky Forums so why would I think anyone would be familiar with anything relating to economics? ;)

Well, most people on Veeky Forums want to do something productive with their lives but have landed in shitty situations or have fucked up in the past and are not content with their current situation. Or else they wouldn't be trying to escape their identity by posting on the most fucked up reject web forum in the planet. How new are you?

Not to mention that the plural of anecdote is not data.

>1 post by this ID

>fucked up situation
>>Has the ability and time to post on %chan, from a first world country

Huh really makes you think

>you live in a first world country, therefore you can't possibly be a fuck up

I mean it's easy to spout propaganda and all but have you ever had to think for yourself at any point in your life?

Universal basic income is NOT a "luxury".
Universal basic income is NOT a "socialist utopia".

UBI is an alternative to the poverty traps, that is the welfare and financial aid from the government.

Many such aids have criteria such as not working a job more than x hours, or not making more than y dollars. People get afraid of losing their benefits permanently, e.g. while still in a part-time or unstable work environment, or, it can simply become a matter of time vs reward. People don't want to work more if it means getting less benefits.

For example: if the scenario is a) either work for 10 hours one day for $50, or b) work 0 hours for $25, that puts your de facto hourly wage at just $2,5. That makes most people choose b). In the most extreme cases, they'll even lose money if choosing to work.

It's a function to get people to work as much as they can, without fear of the loss in benefits.

But they would magically get over their personal problems if you gave them MORE money to sit at home and shitpost? Please tell me what mental disabilities you have? I think they are severe.

I've been on Veeky Forums since around 2007, cunt.

>Not to mention that the plural of anecdote is not data.
Christ you are a fucking pretentious twat.

This. Really don't see how throwing more money at them is going to give them any more incentive to get off their asses.

>BUT THROWING MONEY AT LAYABOUTS IS *DEFINITELY* GOING TO MEAN THEY OVERCOME THEIR LACK OF CONFIDENCE / LACK OF SALEABLE SKILLS / SHITTY FAMILY SITUATION!

>IT DEFINITELY ISN'T GOING TO MEAN THEY SPEND IT ON DRUGS AND BOOZE AND PARTYING AND INTERNET GAMES!

You fucking moron.

Yeah, just like how food stamps and child support money could mathematically never be spent on McDonalds, iPhones and lottery tickets... oh, wait.

The kind of dumb mother fucker most likely to qualify for your magical poverty-destroying panacea is also the exact same demographic who is provably most likely to abuse it.

Fine, so you can disregard the one sentence in my post relating to the have-nots being relatively worse off. Now address the issue of currency devaluation.

Not an argument

Statistically welfare cheats and abusers are a minority.

Because if you give $X to everyone, the cost of living will rise by $X.

Well if you are taking all of the funding through taxes you aren't printing additional money so the currency doesn't get devalued.

But welfare dependency isn't

If are taxing less people than you are giving money to then how would you be able to give out enough money to supply everyone with a base livable wadge ? you cant just take the money from taxes and give back more than you take, where would the money come from? you would need to increase the amount of money in circulation decreasing the value, or tax people way too much which would defeat the purpose of giving them the money in the first place.

cause its shit and a fad

Because you are better off staying on welfare once you get it because of the hoops you have to jump through to get it, which UBI would fix.

take 318.9 m people and give each one 1000 dollars per month to live on. Now assuming they spend every penny of that every month at the end of the year it would cost the government more then they make in collecting taxes each year, not even including the additional expenses that the government is responsible for. you would need to print more money to maintain thus devaluing the money.

because basic income is nothing more than communism which has been tried and failed. it will do nothing but create shortages and price increases.

if you weren't a brain dead commie faggot you'd realize that. a better question is why we don't turn worthless wastes like you into fertilizer?

I know it can be difficult to understand economics but please try to remember that things you buy have to be supplied from somewhere and typically the supplier, the rest of the supply chain, the income of the workers and the owners get from their activities get taxed. There's probably more that I'm missing.

The additional demand would result in more jobs too and serve as a stimulating factor to the economy.

>any sort of government action in the market is brutal communism
Strange how such a gross lie can enrage a man to the point where he wants to kill his own brothers.

Please continue to cry so I can drink your tears while I exercise my first amendment rights.

>commie faggot that wants to starve his own people has the nerve to call anyone his brother
i hope to live to see the day when you leftists parasites take your rightful place hanging from light posts.

Yes! More! Let the hate consume you.

>UBI gets instituted
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize UBI
>prices go up to subsidize increased corporate taxes
>UBI goes up to subsidize increased prices
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize increasing UBI
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize UBI
>prices go up to subsidize increased corporate taxes
>UBI goes up to subsidize increased prices
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize increasing UBI
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize UBI
>prices go up to subsidize increased corporate taxes
>UBI goes up to subsidize increased prices
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize increasing UBI
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize UBI
>prices go up to subsidize increased corporate taxes
>UBI goes up to subsidize increased prices
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize increasing UBI
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize UBI
>prices go up to subsidize increased corporate taxes
>UBI goes up to subsidize increased prices
>corporate taxes go up to subsidize increasing UBI
>corporate taxes go up to...

We're kind of going in the opposite direction, stores are full but people have no money to buy.

screw basic income.. freemarkets should decide the fate of personal income. Abolish minimum wage and gibbedats.

Lolbertarians is the future

>abolish minimum wage
>all employers drop wages to 25c/day
Great plan

>give everyone a bunch of free money
>expect prices to stay the same on everything
Great plan

I think I love you. Idc if you're a man.

So a doctor earns as much as a burger flipper? I'm pretty familiar with how this economy shit works. No, I'm not a cupcake. Are you from Russia?

Oh burn

Yeah, they're mostly minorities, but pointing that out is "racist".

You'd be amazed how many people on a finance forum are unable to grasp this.

The *global* economy maybe, when we're discussing acountry that imports most of its goods. The wealth created by UBI will be gratefully received by millions of Chinamen. I bet you're anti-Trump too, right?

what a dire view of humanity.
some of the greatest advances in humanity were came from rich bum trustfund kids who did the cutting edge work because they had the time and enjoyed it.

>the Veeky Forums brain trust
if you want to abolish the minimum wage the first step is introducing basic income.

ITT: A lot of people who think they are "productive". And can "earn" their keep.

You are not. You are slow, weak, stupid and expensive. We just haven't gotten around to automating you yet. We were busy working on the stock traders, managers, programmers, doctors and lawyers: the expensive people.

If you drive a car, operate machinery, work as clerk, analyze financial data, read or generate reports of any kind, create websites, write news articles, or manage people who do any of these things (etc. etc.), your "career" will not last longer than a couple decades.

If you plan on having a job for longer than that, you need a new plan. UBI is one, an hero is another, but the idea that things can go on as they have, or even go back to how they were, is laughable.

>tfw the better society fairs the better my industry fairs
UBI em all.

Ultra expensive but gov gets nothing in return.

Far better to have a universal right to a government job.

You need a little more zip on this to really sell it.
Something like "All will cower before me and obey my brutal commands! The horizon of eternal bloodshed approaches!"
You know, kinda Conan-esque.

It exists, it's called women in the workplace.

The point is moot. They're trying it in canada soon so we'll see how this works.

My bet is that UBI is better than general welfare systems, but that's like not being in last place at the special Olympics.

Hitler's universal employment was a much better idea.

Universal employment was not a concept created to compete against automation.
While you could argue that america would benefit immensely from autobahn like projects, roads last much longer than their construction period.

>Everybody suddenly has more money
>Prices increase

Mansa Musa single-handedly crashed the economies of Saharan Africa on his way to Mecca by handing out gold to anyone and everyone, especially the poor. It devalued gold coinage and prices inflated, so nobody could afford anything.

In a UBI system, everybody having more money would inflate prices and we'd be right back at square one, nobody would be able to afford shit.

>Comparing Saharan levels of scarcity with American economy
Maybe next time Trevor.

its the same argument as

>workers wages rise
>prices of goods increase

no its not. a for profit company can pay you as much as they want and it has nothing to do with the prices of goods and services. whats the difference between a rich man spending money and a poor one. its the same shit.

This is not about a single company, a single rich man, or a single poor man. This is about literally every single person in the economy being handed money. All of it devalues. The market can bear higher prices, so prices will rise. And if the money supply remains the same such that it's just a redistribution from the rich to everyone, then the economy stagnates to boot. But the money supply is always increasing, so we get it all. Double inflation plus stagnation. People's UBI will be worthless once it reaches their checking accounts.

Exactly. With UBI, the main source of inflation BY FAR will be UBI itself. So the gov't will have to spend more to counteract the inflation, which will just make it worse.

It's like bidding against yourself at an auction.

>the point
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