Places like the TV, the internet, and Veeky Forums, all have a heavy misconception of Islam.
Did you guys know, that in real life, there are Muslims who wont try and convert you to Islam, but rather just want to talk about God with you?
Like, the media puffs up the violence and completely leaves out all the peace and knowledge Islam has to offer, not to convert us or die, but to simply discuss the most important thing, God.
4/10
Well yeah. You can't generalize a group of 1.2 billion people consisting of all races, nationalities and cultures like retarded Americans do
"From the excellence of a person's Islam is his leaving alone what does not concern him."
"He is in a good state who is occupied with his own faults rather than the faults of other people."
I don't agree with the teachings of Muhammad and the Qur'an. Care to explain why I should?
>who wont try and convert you to Islam, but rather just want to talk about God with you?
No difference, it's all apologetics.
Your individual faith is as valid as anyone else. What is important is your relationship to God. Religion is a burden to some, and a stepping stone for others. If it burdens you, it is because you are in submission to the leaders of the religion. If it is a stepping stone, God, manifest in your experience, can be understood more day by day.
Not all Muslims will be kind to your different faith, but in real life, you may find Muslims who have some knowledge to drop on you, without trying to convert you.
The problem is not with media, but with Islam unfortunately. You know how the saying goes, if you are at odds with everyone, it is you who might have a problem not everyone else.
The problem is that many many Muslims share views that are considered shocking or incompatible with modern world. How many of them believe that apostates from Islam should be punished or even killed? How many of them share views on women that are considered outdated at best? There's also that special snowflake attitude that so many Muslims have. Virtually all religions learned to accommodate to the secular laws of moden Western society, even if they don't agree with some of them. However, many Muslims believe that the secular law should accommodate to them, or at least shouldn't apply whenever they find it fit. You guys must understand that this causes resentment. People in the West feel that it is them who are expected to change their way of life, and it's because of some people who came to their own countries.
I am not even touching the issue of terrorism. But everyone has to admit that there's serious problems with Salafism. Saudi-funded mosques and Saudi-backed clerics spread hatred, simply put. The Muslim community does virtually nothing to prevent or counter that.
No muslim wants to talk about God with anyone.
They want to talk about allah, and try to convince you that allah is God.
Worse, they'll try to convince you that allah is just the arabic word for God.
It's a lie from the pit of hell. Allah is Hubal, aka Ba'al.
Even the photos you use to justify yourself are lies.
Islam is not peace.
Islam is submission.
Allah literally means God, try again
The problem is the media. There are millions of Muslims, just like you and me. We are all people, living in the present moment of 2016.
There are radical Muslims, radical Americans, etc, but the problem is not with all Americans, and the problem is not with all Muslims, ever. We are all equal in God's eyes.
Western law is not perfect, and should accommodate for all faiths, which it does to some degree. it is when the radicals want more, the radical Muslims want more power = problem. The radical American want more secularity and power? = problem.
Allah is God to the Arab.
To the internet, Allah is Ba'al, because of that one picture on google images and false prophet Christian Youtube channels
Islam is peaceful submission to God. Follow the Lord, and hear instruction.
"I look up to the mountains, and does my help come from there? My help comes from the Lord, who made the heavens and the earth." Psalm 121:1-2
Tying the Judaism and Islamic ideas together, submission to God is peace. God will help us. God loves us. Allahu Akbar
That "knowledge" is Islamic apologetics.
They don't read the Hebrew Bible, can't even get the would-be victim of the Binding of Isaac right, and believe Solomon had conversation with ants.
To your understanding, it is apologetics. That is fine, you are allowed to believe whatever you want and reason whatever you want.
Muslims are also allowed to draw their own conclusions. They can say "This Hebrew Bible, This Christian Bible, I can learn from it" or they can say "it's nonsense and not for me"
We are all the same. We all have the faculty of reason
In Arabic, the word “Islam” means submission or surrender – however, it was derived from the root word “salam”. From this root word, you can also derive the words peace and safety. Many people feel that Islam implies some sort of enslavement to Allah, but others find it more helpful to define the word “Islam” as surrender.
Many religions have a concept of surrender to God. In Jewish history, when the ancient Hebrews obeyed God’s commands, they had a long period of prosperity and stability.
In Christianity, surrendering to God is a way of putting your life into more capable hands – in fact, Jesus asked many of his disciples to surrender their livelihoods and follow him.
So, if we look at the word ‘Islam’ in this way, we can understand why obeying Allah’s commands and trusting in Allah’s wisdom could bring about peace for a Muslim.
The word does not represent a one-sided relationship, where the believer is enslaved to Allah. Rather, the word Islam indicates a covenant between Allah and his followers, where a Muslim surrenders his or her will to Allah in return for peace or safety.
>We all have the faculty of reason
This faculty of reason should get you to reject the latter fabrications, and get Hebrew stories from their original sources, as opposed to an illiterate man who could never read them.
>the faculty of reason should get you to reject the latter fabrications
According to your faculty of reason, that is your response.
Allah is everywhere, God is seated in the Jew, the Christian, Muslims, even in the atheist. You are all the temple of God, and respectable beings. Read books, the Bible, the Quran, the Gita, you are all here together.
why are you all shitheads constantly trying to stir shit up wherever one may find you? why do Muslim women take jobs as airline stewardesses where they are expected to serve alcohol as part of the job description, refuse to, get fired and then go on to sue for millions of dollars because of supposed discrimination? why are you all generally conniving welfare cheating scum without an inkling of respect for secular law and the western way of life?
I'm sorry but I don't want your people or your faith in my country
Those who decide to work have a reasonable need to earn money, for family or to keep their house. Even if they serve alcohol, God understands the content of their heart. It would be different if the Muslim woman got a man drunk without getting paid for it, what content is then in her heart? But whatever reason she needs to money, for her children? Allah understands the content of intention.
The media doesn't exist to project as many sides of life as can exist, but to project and criticize actions and ideologies. At the moment violent ideologues who loudly proclaim an Islamic identity are the only ones with the media's full attention, not because the media specifically cares about religious ideology but because it can use the subject to signal to as many Western viewers as possible on subjects they care about.
Anyone who lets news and social media influence their personal interactions with people they know, however, are literal plebeians.
>Allah is everywhere, God is seated in the Jew, the Christian, Muslims, even in the atheist. You are all the temple of God, and respectable beings. Read books, the Bible, the Quran, the Gita, you are all here together.
This is perennialist thinking.
The vast, vast majority of Muslims not only don't believe it, they oppose it, as it condones shirk. There's shirk going on in the New Testament and in the Gita, and Allah can't forgive shirk.
Muslims are exclusivist and believe only their religion provides salvation, despite Qur'anic verses supporting perennialism, because they care little for the Meccan surahs.
If they really had any tolerance for other beliefs, the holiest cities of Islam would have never been in Wahhabist hands, because there would have never been a Wahhabist movement in the first place.
There may be one Allah, but there is not one Islam, there are multiple Islams.
Hey OP, can you answer some of the points raised in this video:
youtube.com
If you can, then can you try your hand at these two as well:
youtube.com
youtube.com
I'm well aware there are some pacifist sects of Islam, and the vast majority of any religious following will never read their holy book and are just sheep to be exploited. But how is Islam any different to any other religion (except maybe Jainism) in that it makes no logical sense, advocates brutality, terrorism, paedophilia, and a whole host of other actions modern society considers immoral. Or should those acts be moral (and as such, society is in error), as they are advocated for by the Quran?
>There may be one Allah, but there is not one Islam, there are multiple Islams.
The real danger these days is that most Muslims have been led to believe there is only one Islam, and that it is a nationalist and fundamentalist faith from which other kinds have deviated from or abandoned in sin.
Who cares what kind of thinking it is. Who cares what books someone is reading or not reading. All religions provide salvation, all are from God.
Tolerance is in those who are not exposed by the media as terrorist.
There may be many sects of Islam and every other religion, but this is not a problem, because there are millions of different followers of every religion, all with something different to see in their perspective.
To say "there will never be peace" you fluctuate the idea that "there will never be peace", and it wont matter what religious ideas you have at that point, unless you decide that your ideas are important enough to make a difference.
True Islam is in the heart. True religion, is in the heart. True Christianity is in the heart. If you separate from this, you will follow Islam, the way everyone else believes and tells you how to follow, and this is not what is taught
>Who cares what kind of thinking it is
Imams.
Do Christians who believe in the contents of the Nicene Creed, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and Wiccans commit shirk?
If not, why? If yes, why and why should they repent?
Not really big on YouTube channels and their "this is why I don't agree with this" videos.
David is a war hero to the Hebrews, so is Muhamed to the Arabs. When it comes to his young wife, we are not to make any judgments to harsh, nor are we to ignore it entirely. There is one part in the Mahabarata where there is a woman with five husbands, because of an incident in her past life, where she asks Lord Siva for a husband with five qualities.
What does this say for the seven year old wife? Who knows for sure.
It is how you look at these groups and people. You can look through a window, but are you outside? We can look at different faiths of religion, but are we that faith? if no, then we do not truly understand that faith and their belief.
There are also Muslims who don't know the quaran
But I ask you in Sunni and Shia Islam how is one excommunicated there is no overarching ruling council like Catholicism, there are merely imams here and there
If Hindus are allowed to make statues of Durga and bow down to her, and it's okay because "all religion is for God", and shirk and idolatry aren't really sins, what did Muhammad go to the Arabs for?
Pre-Islamic paganism is a religion from God too, they even knew him as Allah already.
Again, what is being described in this thread is not what Islam is.
It's something even the perennialists that wrote The Study Quran would be unconfortable with. One thing is to say all forms of monotheism is Islam, another thing is to say all the religions in the world with their differences bring salvation.
But that is not what is Islam teaches and believes.
That level of unity of religion is called Baha'i Faith.
Every person can resolve religious disputes for themselves and see the duality of two sides.
>When it comes to his young wife, we are not to make any judgments to harsh, nor are we to ignore it entirely.
That's not how religion works bro.
The ONLY legitimacy the Quran (same with most holy books) has is that it was claimed to be the word of god, and Muhammed was supposed to be the perfect man.
Either what he did was righteous and should be imitated, or it was not, and he is fallible, and as such the Quran is not the word of god but of man, and the religion loses all legitimacy.
So did he fuck a 9 year old and permit intercourse with children of any age, or didn't he?
And if he did, the position of Islam is that this is the behaviour of the perfect man, inspired by god, and everyone should copy him.
Yes, it's called Taqiyya
t. Clinton
How's that pneumonia goin?
Who cares why Muhammed went after Pagan Arabia. What is important is the teachings left. Durga is not an idol, but an angel. If you believe "pagan goddess" then sure, now it is an idol, but not to pagans.
What is truly important is your self in the present day. Where do you stand. What does your relationship to God tell you? Why get lost in teachings from thousands of years ago if you can't believe in the present moment, that God is manifests much today as He is then.
If you understand the Quran, read it, if yo do not understand, you are not a Muslim. "That means I go to hell according to the Quran" no, Because God is not the Quran, God is above the Quran, God wants to see our content in our heart and in our mind, and what actions we take. Only people persecute others. God wants to judge our content for Himself, and not have others decide our Judgement
Islam is submission, and everyone submits to God.
All religions have the Words of God. People are not perfect, God is perfect. The religions, all serve as a step on a staircase, because everyone is going to experience God for themselves.
Ask God for your insight, not someone online.
As for his young wife, this is not our judgment, it is for God to judge, who already has.
>Who cares why Muhammed went after Pagan Arabia.
It was a religion from God too, the pagans' salvation was not in jeopardy, why would a prophet fight and condemn them when all religion comes from God?
>Durga is not an idol, but an angel
Where are you getting this from? Were al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat not angels?
>God is above the Quran
How can Allah be "above" the Qur'an when both Allah and the Qur'an are eternal and uncreated?
I get where you are coming from. I agree many Muslims share primitive views and seem very hypocritical when they live in the west and are capable of great mischief to others or themselves in their own lands, even recently in the west. I think one of the issues many Muslims in the world suffer is hypocrisy. You have people outraged by a burqa ban, but these same people defend Saudi Arabia and will gladly shill for them. Or when Israel bombs the fuck out of Gaza, they will shed tears and criticize, but when bombs hit Yemen, or those pesky Shias or children on the wrong side of the battlefield you will get silence. I guarantee you if Israel was Muslim no one would give two shits about Palestine. And yes Saudi sponsored Salafism is a problem(though I want to refrain from calling every Salafist the same believe it or not there are different opinions among them too,a minority, but still there. I hate blunt generalisation like peaceful Sufi, ebil Salafie). The Saudis have influence on a gullible, ignorant youth, they convince them the world is against them, and western involvement in the Middle East does not help. They shill them Muslim rule throughout history(an even there they use hypocrisy) as some sort of utopia of sunshine and rainbows, an believe me I know it was not. They fail to realize that they are tools. They don't ask them selves if Shayk Abu Birmingham shills suicide bombing as a easy way to paradise then why doesn't he do it himself? If he so praises what he calls "Sharia", why doesn't he just fuck off to Saudi Arabia? Why does he stay in the "land of kufr"? Dawah?Ha! Don't make me laugh. They bring more hate towards Islam and Muslims than the most bitter crusaderfag or fedora-blogger could ever do. The average hate preach... I mean "Dawah carrier" and Sharia4X guy is the reason people dislike us, not the terrorists. As someone has mentioned Islam has become more like (ironically) nationalism and a political tool to some than religion.
Some Pagans have very evil practices. Some are peaceful.
Allah is above the Quran. God is not a book. God does not write. Allah is not the Quran. God is the Source of everything, more importantly, God is the Source of every human soul.
Ask God for your answers from this point, because another thing people do is ask all these questions to people sitting behind a computer screen rather than trust their own inner being and God to solve their questions
Fuck off. Muslims are more generalizing and intolerant of non believers and other things than us.
It's human nature not to want these fuckers around. Stop trying to change our nature
>God is not a book. God does not write.
According to Islam, the Quran is the DIRECT word of god, transcribed by Mohammed.
So either you are not a Muslim, or you are extremely ignorant of your own scripture.
My money is on you being a troll.
Not all Muslims are the same person. Everyone generalizes the evil terrorists and associates all Muslims with them, but the reality is they are people just like you and I.
It is propaganda, to say they are all, evil.
>durr Islam is a religion of WAR
>hurr no you idiot, Islam is a religion of PEACE
How about it's a fucking religion and therefore can be manipulated for any kind of justification possible?
It's even worse when Christfags try attacking Islam when Christianity is the cancer that held the West back for centuries.
God does not write. All religions are the DIRECT word of God., translated by every hand and mind transferring their experience.
There is no religious barrier, it is a false wall. You, personally, you don't need to agree with anything or anyone, because it is just a book at that point, if you don't understand it. My advice to you is to trust yourself. If you spend all day believing what everyone else has to say about religion, Christianity, Islam, etc, then you are not experiencing it for yourself. Experience it for yourself to decide, otherwise, you will just repeat what everyone else has to say, and everyone else is simply repeating everything else someone else has to say
Your life, is a manifestation of the Word of God.
They are not like me or you. Even they know this. You are delusional if you think otherwise. All pure mentality is cause social strife, division and suffering for both.
not all Muslims are terrorists but the majority of them are low iq, cousin marrying regressive fucks
Reminder that muslims hate dogs because God's angels fear dogs.
nope, it means "the god".
It's a title.
If anything "the media" taken as a whole is the one defending and apologizing for Islam and the actions of its adherents.
We are all the same. Muslims, Christians, internet dwellers, are all people, living life, right now, in this moment, knowing jack shit just like everyone else.
Pure mentality does not cause social strife or division or suffering. If there was a pure mentality on both sides, then, this conversation would be pure, with no means for insult.
Not all Muslims will believe in the same thing
>God does not write. All religions are the DIRECT word of God., translated by every hand and mind transferring their experience.
>There is no religious barrier, it is a false wall. You, personally, you don't need to agree with anything or anyone, because it is just a book at that point, if you don't understand it. My advice to you is to trust yourself. If you spend all day believing what everyone else has to say about religion, Christianity, Islam, etc, then you are not experiencing it for yourself. Experience it for yourself to decide, otherwise, you will just repeat what everyone else has to say, and everyone else is simply repeating everything else someone else has to say
>Your life, is a manifestation of the Word of God.
So you are not advocating for Islam or defending Islam in any way and this entire discussion is fucking pointless.
Lmao.
to your own conclusion, sure. There is only one God, and in Arab, it is a translation, to Allah.
If you want to believe, that God is separate for some reason, you can falsely assume this. God is everywhere, for every person. Don't let your prejudice get in the way of your mind.
>All religions provide salvation, all are from God.
Even the ones that outright deny the existence of God and the idea of salvation as valid?
You idiot.
What is being advocating is that instead of making fun of people on the internet, you could go seek out God for yourself.
If you want more information about Islam, please read the Quran.
>According to Islam
Which Islam, and why is it more right than the other Islams that exist and have existed?
Everyone is allowed to believe in whatever they want. This is called using reason.
God gave you free will.
>Christianity is the cancer that held the West back for centuries
I disagree, Catholicism is the reason western civilization survived past the fall of the Roman Empire.
>Everyone is allowed to believe in whatever they want
Then why does Quran advocate waging war on infidels?
"This" mentality. Not pure. Auto correct
Also you are delusional if you think all humans are the same. We are different breeds. Different genetics, different cultures.
Diversity+proximity=conflict
Where there are multiple races or religious groups you create more racism and bigotry. If you want peace, you advocate for them to return to their nations. Most peaceful societies are those with religious and ethnic cohesion. Not different people clashing for their own tribal interests.
>Everyone generalizes the evil terrorists and associates all Muslims with them, but the reality is they are people just like you and I.
The scarier thought that I think most people consciously avoid in order to talk about the rest of the Muslim world for good or ill is that the evil terrorists are the most like you or I.
>There is only one God
not to the Arab pagans who Mohammad ethnically cleansed, and from whom the word has it's origin.
>God is everywhere, for every person.
not for the people who don't want him there
He doesn't force himself on people you know.
>Don't let your prejudice get in the way of your mind.
shut the fuck up faggot
you think you're deep, like some sort of fucking prophet
deep inside your own ass maybe
Because they want to
But, we are al the same, living in the present, being a person, in our conditions of life. Many illusions separate us, especially culture and identity. We are all the same, all souls in bodies, coming from God.
We are all human beings.
God is everywhere. There is only God. If you don't want Him, then He doesn't need to make Himself known.
Don't let your prejudice get in the way of your mind, because anger will trade discussion for insult
>Because they want to
Nah this isnt about them, this is about the Quran, the holy book, the word of god.
It tells Muslims to kill infidels.
Either this is god telling them to do this or its some bullshit made up by a con artist.
Which is it?
yeah jup ok yeah
>Because they want to
So you agree that Islam preaches the exact opposite of what you're saying, then?
>There is only God.
now you're even claiming to be God.
As if God isn't powerful enough to create separate entities of a divine seed.
Most Muslims respect human life.
>This common translation is wrong. The verse doesn’t actually mention “infidels” but rather refers to “those who join other gods with God”—which is to say, polytheists. So, bin Laden notwithstanding, the “Sword verse” isn’t the strongest imaginable basis for attacking Christians and Jews.
Also, go back fourteen hundred years, you have life in a different circumstance. Just like every other age, war, imperialization, dramatics. It is all the same
Culture and identity are not illusions but the results of thousands of years of evolution.
You are ignorant of history if you think Muslims will simply co exist in a nation of non believers. They belong in their own lands
No agree, no disagree.
This thread is because there are Muslims in real life who are against all of this violence, and actually teach you the Word of God without converting you.
There is only one God above me, and you, and all, He is in all of us. God is all powerful. He makes even the ignorant understand.
HAHAH thats fuckin cool, look up that verse holy shit. Cudos.
They will cohabitate, because all forms of identity will be destroyed. All races and nations and religions will all becomes realized soon enough.
>This thread is because there are Muslims in real life who are against all of this violence, and actually teach you the Word of God without converting you.
The thing is that a)those are in the minority and b)they go against the teachings of the Quran and are therefore not real muslims.
They are a minority for sure, and they are not literalists, but if they call themselves muslim but are liberal secular fukin normal people i couldn't care less desu. If they start sayin shit like the Quran is totally perfect and wise, then they're idiots and enemies of mankind.
According to your ideas, they aren't Muslims but neither are you so how would you understand what is real and who is not
The only identies being destroyed are Western European ethnicities. All others groups are increasing ethnicentric.
Muslims are very clear about this
Someone who claims to be part of a religion but doesn't do his best to follow its tenets is nothing but a fraud.
cool shit tho, sure yeah lying about whats causing this global insurgency shit is totally gonna help and build trust and respect yes
>He is in all of us.
Suppose one person were to ask him to leave.
He is all powerful, that's why he can grant their request.
All forms of seperation don't exist, so when everyone remembers this we will have be peace
Not always, that is why there are sects, all claiming to be the "one" when everyone is
We will have peace when Muslims get too cocky and we fucking purge them form our countries
>Muslims are exclusivist and believe only their religion provides salvation
Uh no. All good people get to go to heaven, senpai. It even says in their book that people of the book and the righteous go to heaven.
>are therefore not real members of x faith
I don't understand why you pseudo-intellectuals like to spout this meme. Nobody carries around the contents of their religion's book in the head. Nobody adheres to their faith perfectly.
If someone tells me they're a member of a particular faith, all I get from it is,
>they have dietary requirements
>they may or may not have certain restrictions on what they can do
>they've been brought up with a system of morals
And how exactly does that make them any different to anyone else?
Look at this guy, for instance.
>Someone who claims to be part of a religion but doesn't do his best to follow its tenets is nothing but a fraud.
Do you follow all of the laws of your country? You don't know all of them, right? And yet, you try to live as a good citizen. Does that make you a fraud, too?
/pol/'s "arguments" are just tension creating emotional arguments. & Humanities doesn't mean you can bring your trashy debates here. OP can fuck off, too, for baiting them and making them feel at home in Veeky Forums.
That is the opposite to peace and a reason for them to fight back. Only love defeats hate
>Not always, that is why there are sects, all claiming to be the "one" when everyone is
Either you follow a religion or you don't, it's that simple. Sometimes there are differences in interpretation, but if your holy book says "do x" and you don't think you should do x, then you're a fraud.
yes the love of my own people will defeat their hate of western civilization.
>Nobody carries around the contents of their religion's book in the head. Nobody adheres to their faith perfectly.
That's why I said "doesn't do his best to follow its tenets" not "doesn't follow the tenets perfectly to the letter, always and without exception." No-one is perfect.
It's more than that. You have to practice and cultivate from all faiths.
Abrogated
Someone following your ideals of a religion doesn't mean they are following a religion.
>Psalm 121:1-2
That's a Judeo-Christian scripture you retard
>but doesn't do his best to follow its tenets
'its tenets' being things another sect has popularized and which polemicists have attacked as being the one true Islam.
Allah =/= God
Allah = Satan
If the quran is eternal and perfect and handed down from Jibril perfectly, why are there abrogated suras?
Oh, that's right. It's because it's the writings of (certain) followers of a madman listening to the devil.
Islam is submission to allah, aka the devil.
Islam has nothing to do with the Jew God.
You can say that your god is allah, but that does not make allah into God.
YHWH is God; allah is the devil.
Allah is Hubal is Ba'al is the god of the arabs from centuries past.
The Jew God has never been the god of the arabs.
allah is not great; he is a liar and a thief and a murderer, from the beginning.
And yes, much of the bible was plagiarized into the quran.
You're making the case that the devil does not persecute his own.
Agreed.
Every religion is an interpretation of some religious text where they say "The Holy _____ says _____ which really means _____ because of _____ tradition." The only difference is some sects have memed their views to present their interpretation as the direct word.