Post 5 things you like about your car, and 5 things you don't

Pros
>great shifting and steering
>lots of torque and picks up speed very fast
>great, responsive handling and hard to understeer
>low cost to own (fuel/insurance/0% interest)
>Recaro seats are fantastic

Cons
>doesn't look that good
>rear cargo area poorly designed
>panel gaps bad in some areas
>current rear motor mount sometimes rattles
>annoying tire size

>build quality
>aftermarket
>easy to work on
>good shape
>suits my needs of capability and space

>relatively low power (102hp/200nm, will be fixed)
>bare bones (no AC, ABS, outside temp gauge), altho last has been rectified
>wheels are too small (will be fixed)
>no rear locker (will be fixed)
>bed door and front bumper are rusty (will be replaced)

Ayy FiST Bro!
Pros:
>Recaros are snug as fuck
>Great aftermarket scene/plenty of tuning potential
>Very quirky and fun
>Looks great and aggressive
>plenty of space for my everyday needs

Cons:
>Quick but after about 50MPH kinda starts to lose its quickness
>Turbo lag is unreal sometimes
>4 doors
>Shit rattles all the time
>Gear changes are too loosey goosey

>so much fun to drive
>seats and steering wheel feel great
>voice commands actually work, stereo is good
>more economical than I expected (25 mpg average, 35 when not hooning)
>ride is just right for my tastes, not too firm (most of the time)

>turning circle is atrocious
>A pillar blocks view a lot
>very easy to lose traction in 1st and 2nd if you're not careful with the throttle, especially on wet roads
>torque steers like a motherfucker in 1st and 2nd
>not the greatest of cargo spaces for a wagon

Huh, I thought this would take off

pros:
comfy as fuck
looks good, i think. everyone thinks its fancy.
i have a lifetime powertrain warranty yay
american made
RWD master race
tons of space for my shit

cons
not the best gas mileage
fucking engine problems, if it werent for that warranty.. lol
some asshole scratched my bumped in the parking lot of the sears parts store 3 months after i had it repainted
kinda drives like a boat, slow with the 2.7 v6 that i have
fucking rear A/C blows dicks, never blows cold wtf

Pros -
>Cheap parts, 350 Chebby, could rebuild engine with 200 bucks
>Easy to work on, virtually zero electronics
>Fun to drive, spins tires ridiculously easy
>Comfortable, suspension isn't as hard as I expected when I got it
>Reliable, haven't gotten a single problem with it

Cons -
>Loud, grabs a lot of attention
>No A/C period
>Not very roomy on the inside, head scrapes the roof
>0.5 miles to the gallon thanks to the glorious 3 speed transmission
>Rust absolutely everywhere, car is falling apart

2001 Toyota Camry
Pros
>Reliability, never had any real problems with it
>Gas Mileage
>Smooth ride for how cheap and old it is
>Super comfy
>Styling has aged pretty well IMO
Cons
>So fucking slow
>Handling isn't great
>Small stuff like door handles are built cheaply and break easily
>It has fucking hubcaps
>I would say FWD but it snows alot here so that could go either way.

Pros
>Really responsive throttle, very torquey
>Smell of petrol and hot brakes
>Replacement parts are cheap
>Gets a lot of attention from it looks(designed by pinanforina)
>Comfortable setup with great viewing angles from the drivers and passengers seats.

Cons
>Electricals are messed up, only that that works electrically is the speedometer, headlights and interior lights; everything else is disabled
>Pad and Drum brake setup makes it hard to stop fast
>Not many people can me when I drive as the thing is very low to the ground and small
>Breaks down quite a lot due to electrical problems
>Dull paint job makes it look like a old turd

>they like the recaros
Are you guys manlets? I absolutely hate the seating position.
5'4'' girl at work loves it though.

>cheap
>v fun at lower speeds
>Recaros are lovely
>big aftermarket
>small and easy to park

>rear visibility is awful compared to my previous 04 Focus
>lots of wasted space in the trunk where the spare goes
>looses its oomph on the freeway
>weird wheel and tire sizes
>interior besides the Recaros is pretty shit

I'm 5'9 so yea I guess I am a manlet? Idk they're snug and just feel right

92 jetta
Pros:
>hella fuel effieciency (dieselfag here)
>hella reliable, 1992 with 180000km's on it
>comfy as fuck ride
>diesel sounds like a truck

cons:
>not a turbo, so literally the slowest car I have ever driven
>rattles like a mofo
>looks like a very well designed and stylish shipping container (doesn't attract the ladies)
>no cupholders

It's probably the bolsters and it's probably because you're overweight.

'99 Acura Integra LS

Pros
>Looks good
>Honda reliability
>Handles nice for a FWD
>Fun car to hoon
>Feint drifting is a blast

Cons
>FWD
>No VTEC
>Automatic transmission
>Understeer if you fuck up your flick
>Burns oil

Pros
>fun to drive for commuter car
>looks good, exterior and interior
>good handling because its a mazda
>low cost to own (fuel/insurance/0% interest)
>driver seat is comfy

Cons
>base model so no leather wrapped steering wheel or anything
>its not a hatchback
>some scratches from previous owner
>not enough power
>automatic

As it sits.

Pros
>very comfortable seats
>aftermarket exhaust sounds excellent in the cab
>v8
>mods to the shifter and clutch have made shifts feel like butter
>really rips around the bends in spite of the pigfat

Cons
>exhaust is loud as fuck outside the car, mini vans think I want to race
>3.31 gearing feels slow on a regular take off.
>green is hard to keep looking clean.
>cop magnet, I get followed regularly
>few nitpick build quality things but nothing serious

1985 Toyota MR2 (AW11)

Pros:
>Good looks
>Pop ups!
>So easy and cheap to maintain/repair
>Dat sound
>Dat handling
>Dat steering
>Engine refuses to die

Cons:
>31 years old so bolts stuck everywhere
>Rust is my enemy
>31yo suspension is fucked
>Tin can safety
>Not very practical
>No AC (I need to recharge the system will the old and hard to find refrigerant)
>Leaks slightly at highway speeds during heavy rain (planning to fix soon)

To add on to this, I don't think I've ever driven a car more connected to the driver. You feel everything in a good way. The steering inspires so much confidence. The brake pedals tells you everything. Throttle is attached with a cable so super responsive.

1990 Miata NA

Pros:
>Fun as fuck
>Sexy Handling
>No roof
>Pop ups
>Cheap as fuck
>No driver aids, everything mechanical

Cons:
>Slow
>Road noise
>Rust
>Not practical
>No ABS, no airbags
>Roof leaking from time to time, no idea why or when

Which car to use:

1966 Imperial
1967 Rolls Royce
1978 Excalibur
1979 Lincoln Mark V
1981 DeLorean
1984 Fiero

omg wow you have multiple cars! you must be like successful or something XD. just pick one and quit being a faggot

2017 Taco, 6spd auto, 2.7 I4 2wd.

Pros:
>Decent mpg
>smooth ride
>great build quality
>lots of storage
>1st car with touch screen and back up camera

CONS
>6spd can't make up its mind sometime
>i4 is low on power (still plenty for what I need)
>cold lifeless interior plastic (it's a base model)
>dim head lights
>after market anything cost a fortune.

I'm asking so that I don't clutter up the thread with 6 outdated shitboxes.

3k civic

pick your favorite pls

Pros
>all the trim levels look the same, so no one knows its a v6
>seats are comfy as fuck
>aftermarket catback exhaust makes it sounds a lot better than stock
>the visibility out of this seems x2 as most modern "muscle" cars
>tfw 26mpg average

Cons
>v6 "muscle"
>plethora of dents and dings. I'm the 3rh owner ffs
>the hp figure is misleading. actually only produces like 230 at the crank or something like that
>eats break pads like no others
>most people think Im a nigger. I'm whiter than snow.

>dim headlights
>cold lifeless interior plastic (it's a base model)
These aren't any different between the SR and TRD models, are they? I thought the only interior difference are the seats? Close to picking up an SR myself

Pros
>Build Quality
>Old School German engineering
>34 mpg
>Cheap, as long as I'm doing the work
>Will likely live longer than I will

Cons
>83 hp at the crank when it was new
>Shifter is sloppy
>Central locking system could have been implemented better
>seats are from the 30s I think
>It dripped oil, when it was brand new.

Honestly love this thing though. I had to nitpick it pretty hard. Want a cheap daily? If you can find one well sorted, with a stick, aren't afraid of doing routine maintenance, I highly recommend a W123.

If the torque steer and loss of traction is too much for you now. Dont start modifying it. Especially don't put a bigger turbo on it.

>34 mpg
Ahahaha. No. You'd be lucky to get 21. Even the baby benz diesels only got high 20s.

Pros
>stunning looks
>fucking incredible ergonomics- steering, shifter, clutch, interior
>sounds like a whispering banshee with the weird exhaust I have on it
>fast as h*ck
>unmatched handling
Cons
>fuel economy
>fuel economy
>fuel economy
>slightly more expensive to mod
>gets bad MPGs

I really can't find anything else wrong with it. It's a little pricey to own.

Then my trip is lying. It's highway cruising, but I just went 120 miles on 3.5 gallons. I don't know what to tell you man. It's a low mileage motor that's set up right, maybe the wind was at my back? It's kicking ass in the MPG department.

My brother has a 91 turbo diesel and it's hilariously beat to shit. 700,000 km and he hasn't changed the oil in 50,000, the shift linkage feels like stirring a bowl of oatmeal, everything keeps falling apart that isn't the engine, and Christ they are ugly as sin. However, as long as you let it warm up 5-10 minutes before driving it, they will go forever without a rebuild. Just don't warp the block.

There's a huge chance that you measured it wrong. Plus, you can't measure MPGs on just highway cruising alone. Even then, I would estimate it at 28 highway in ideal conditions, and they suck more around town

is that a focus? what edition is it?

2015 Camry

Pros
>it just works
>got it for very cheap
>still under warranty
>AC is excellent
>better MPG than advertised

Cons
>first car I've ever had with computer bullshit and I don't like it, pretty sure the government is monitoring how fast I go
>car is fat/big
>if anything related to the onboard computer ever gets fucked up I won't be able to fix it
>too afraid to drift in it because of computer spyware and it being so new
>insurance went up by about $10/year

Pros
>"""Simple""" enough to fix
>Can handle start it
>Very cheap parts
>Rather compact for a 4x4
>Everyone likes it

Cons
>Has the fuel economy of a a medium sized warship
>Sometimes makes horrible horrible noises
>Max speed of 82mph
>0 to 60 at present is 27.4 seconds
>Spooky brakes

Minden NV to Sacramento.
119 miles
I topped the car off in minden. (till the pump shut off automatically)

I drove home. Went a mile or two down the road to the grocery, stopped at the pump and topped off again. Charge was $7.34. Diesel, right now, is $2.77 at that pump.

$7.34 / $2.77/gal = 2.65gal
120mi / 2.65gal = 45.28 mpg, actually. That's going up a mountain pass on NV207, and then hauling across US50. So I mean, I'll keep keeping an eye on it, but I got one that is running on hopes and dreams. That's bank statement, google maps, and gas buddy numbers.

>cheap to fill up and only have to fill up at about two week intervals, even with pretty much very low distance city driving
>its a turbo diesel so it sounds good even though its a little ass car
>fairly smooth ride besides when im stopped and it rattles like a true diesel
>lots of space for shit i dont even have
fairly fun to drive, slow ass acceleration but it has the potential for a decent top speed

>car is a fucking noise factory, the alternator pulley or one of those pulleys or tensioners or the serpentine belt itself makes a fucking annoying ass chirp that can be heard in the cabin at times
>acceleration is absolutely slow as shit
>the transmission wont move when i shift into reverse like 8/10 times, only way to fix it is to wait an indefinite amount of time or shift into park and then back into reverse. when i take off its a little slow, lurches a little bit and then gets going(dont know if thats bad was told if i change the fluid it could make things worse, dont know when it was changed last)
>the cup holders are those shitty vw ones that pop out above the radio so not only are they flimsy but they block half the radio
>kinda weird looking from the side, should probably add a spoiler or something

2004 mkiv golf tdi variant
>turbo, when you ignore the lag, it's pretty sensual
>can spin tires in 4th gear on wet road with just 100hp
>room for days
>muh empeegees
>the sweet sound of a PD tdi and turbo, also, reliable af, and simple to maintain

Cons
>lower than my mk3, so high curbs with parking are a nono
>only 100hp,even tho that's my highest power car so far (yurocuckistan)
>want harder shocks
>the battery needs changing
>frequency of dying headlight bulbs

Pros
>quick-ish
>engine is fucking bulletproof
>RWD
>vee ate
>stock sound system is impressive

Cons
>drinks gas like my alcoholic mother drinks wine
>transmission sucks dick
>autotragic only
>electrical gremlins out the ass
>is a grandpa car

I love it still, even with all its faults

The DeLorean of course

we share the same car except mine is an 02. mine only has 90 hp but id kill for just 10 more. its a pretty decent car, send pics if you have them

Will find some when i get home.
The PD engine really seems to kick more than standard bosch pump or even common rail. I drove a 2.0 140hp common rail TDI and it felt so lazy compared to the 100hp PD TDI.
I absolutely love that i can spin the tires ij 3rd and in the right conditions in 4th. Plus it looks so good in dark pearl green.

mines the blue one about 5 posts up, i dont think i have the pump deuse system but im not sure, i honestly have looked into it and never really found straight up answers. all i know is its an alh engine

>tfw bought a FiST without the recaros

JUST

WK/WL Statesman

Pros:
>comfy
>spacious
>5.7L of ls1 fury
>plenty of aftermarket available
>goes hard when manually shifted and in power mode
>goes sideways like a mad cunt, lsd works well
>stable
>no cop attention
>good bass from stock stereo

Cons:
>big
>boat
>seats not comfy
>not enough headroom
>steering has little feeling
>body roll for days
>no aux capability (have to solder wires or get a new head unit)
>nobody expects me to be fast
>4 speed auto, annoying to cruise at more than 110
>lots of fuel

Fuck your 5 things

04 civic

Pros
>Reliable, reliable, reliable, reliable, reliable
>Taken it from 80 - 160k miles now and have never had unforeseen repairs
>All electronics and features still work, nothing has broken in the interior
>Easy to work on

Cons
>Slow af, floor it to get on the HW
>Ugly and unsexy
>Have to buy expensive tires to get volume to a reasonable level on the HW
>Not cozy, no window tint, AC struggles in TX summer, hard not to smell musty

Pros
>I have a second, much faster, vehicle
>manual
>coilovers so it can handle breddy good
>can fit a 12ft ladder in it
>cost me, initially, $1000 for a running vehicle with 0 problems

Cons
>I need a longer list
>triggers everyone
>not a v8
>exhaust manifold leak
>2nd gear started grinding when downshifting

Like
>best feeling gear box I've ever shifted
>seats feel like they're a custom fit
>ride and steering feels like an extension of myself
>a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports cost me 480 bucks in stock dimensions
>corners as if it was driving on rails

Don't
>2nd gear is clunky at low RPMs when it's cold
>girls are indifferent about it
>teenage boys break their necks to stare at it
>wind noise gets stupidly loud upward of 120 mph
>paint chips way too easily

Actually, girls aren't really indifferent, literally every single one comments with "wow, you must impress a lot of girls with that car" and when I ask "you like it?" they reply with "no, I'm more into SUVs and German cars".

i always assumed that civics werent that slow, im 99% positive you have more hp than me and even i dont have to floor it to get on the highway and i have only 90 hp. then again i never floor my car and never have so im not exactly sure if i am.

My car had 115hp new. I'd buy you a beer if it had >90 left in it now

ive always wanted one, at least an 05, or a seventh gen civic (they look the best) but i never found one that didnt look god awful. i had an 05 accord (the dreaded v6 auto model) and you guessed it the trans shit out. so after that i didnt trust honda but i recently discovered only those accords had shit trannies, so ive been trying to get a civic or something since.

Imperial please, fuck the plebes.

>lots of shit hauling space
>engine rebuilt, should be reliable when its registered
>sounds alright for a 6
>comfy
>decent towing capacity for a unibody of up to 2 tonnes

>acceleration sucks
>v8 fuel economy, i4 performance
>easy to steal, always a target for thieves
>boomers
>spare parts are expensive

Everytime I see ST owners complain about "not enougb power at highway speeds" I die inside knowing I own an SE Fiesta with almost half the torque and horsepower.

1978 Excalibur

Pros:
>454 V8
>Corvette suspension, steering, and running gear
>Drop top
>Fast
>Relatively low maintenance costs

Cons:
>Cannot be driven in bad weather
>No security whatsoever
>Impractical
>Some routine maintenance sucks
>Everyone thinks it's a VW kit car

1981 DeLorean

Pros:
>No body rust/paint to deal with
>29 MPG highway
>Lotus chassis
>Cool doors
>5-speed

Cons:
>That fucking movie...
>Some parts are NLA
>Bosch K-Jet
>Shit construction
>It's essentially a Fiero with a body kit

ST wagon

Yurop only I think

>cop magnet, I get followed regularly

This would make me sell the car.
I know to be polite to cops when there's an issue, and that most of them aren't a real problem, but I can't deal with worrying about them too much and being watched/profiled. It's a load of bullshit and takes me away from enjoying the drive.

Ok; 1966 Imperial

Pros:
>440 Magnum/727 transmission
>EXCELLENT build quality
>Bulletproof reliability
>So tough it's banned from demo derbies
>Low maintenance costs

Cons:
>Spare parts are virtually nonexistent
>Drum brakes
>Factory options don't work; probably never will
>No hazard lights
>AM only stereo I will never wire up properly

Ye, you can get a faster civic. They go up to 160HP with different models, and that thing would be pretty quick.

Rip that tranny. So you're looking for 06 civic body? That was a sweet body, it's aged pretty well

You don't, yours is a classic bosch pump system. Like my old mk3. Thats virtually bulletproof, as long as you take care of it.
Got 496k km on the mk3, 270k on the mk4. Loving both of em.
The hatchback mk4 looks good in dark blue, the Variant version is dark green or bust.

i have 165k miles (265 k km) on mine atm, bought it a few months ago with about 163k miles, recently got the right and left ball joints and axles replaced and did a full synthetic oil change, slowly repairing things on it. i recently heard about dpfs, never heard of them but thats my new main worry, as i have been told that very low distance driving (which i do) is bad if you have them.

I just got a 260 dollar ticket last week. The cop said my vehicle wasn't fully out of the intersection when the yellow light went red. Refused to even discuss it just gave me the ticket.

>not enough power

weird, my 2012 mazda 3 feels like it has more than adequate power. I can pass people at highway speeds while going uphill.

yeah the 05 is great but the 06-08 civic rears are the absolute best. every other rear and body save a few are really ugly in my opinion, but ive heard nothing but good things about honda really, i guess i just had bad luck with my purchase even if it really cost me. its a shame because it was a really nice car despite a few problems. lately ive wanted somehing japanese, like a toyota, honda or especially a subaru. they seem to be the most reliable

also what do you mean by take care of it? like clean or replace it and what not? and how do i take care of it?

Pros:
>Small enough to weave in and out of traffic with no problem
>Really fun to drive around the city
>Easy to find parking
>Back seats fold flat to make a large cargo area
>Paddle shifters are neat
>Large front windshield for pretty nice visibility

Cons:
>Underpowered for highway travel
>Car is sluggish if you have 2-3 adults in the car
>Paddle shifters won't let you redline in 1st
>People will shit on your car constantly. At least 3 people, none of whom know each other, all referred to it as a "vagina on wheels."
>Cup holders are too small to hold the new Gatorade bottles

Engine wise, of course, just be on schedule with oil changes, and use good oil. Same with belts and pulleys. The regular stuff.
Dont baby it either, diesels like a trip to the rev heaven every so often. Since i drive country roads and regularly do overtakes topping out in third and fourth gear this is not a problem for me.

Just a note on the oil, with my mk3 we first tried Shell oil which it was consuming a lot of, tnen switched to Valvoline, which was about the same.
Started using Mobil 1 and its a world of difference, uses virtually no oil now.
I got Mobil 1 for the mk4 now too, and it seems to like it.

Also avoid shitty fuel. I have a few trusted pumps, which i regularly use. My mk3 helps with noticing which fuel is worse, because its rougher, so a change in its sound and vibration is very easy to notice.

I just did a full synthetic oil change using quaker state. however fuel wise, i just move around between whats cheapest in the area. its generally BP, Sunoco, or WaWa here. I havent noticed a difference in fuels yet, I just assumed all the rattles are normal from a diesel.

What's your mpg? And is it the 155 hp one or the 184 hp?

>And is it the 155 hp one or the 184 hp?
nvm it's the base model so I assume its 155 hp

Pros:
>good low end torque which makes the car feel faster than it really is
>pretty light for modern standards
>great handling
>light clutch and good shifter feel which makes it a good for daily driving

Cons:
>no recaros for me :(
>tiny turbo so the no real top end power
>the tiny turbo also means you can't get that much more power out of it with simple mods
>suspension is pretty stiff

Focus ST estate, only yurop got it. They also got a diesel focus st

Pros:
>incredible mpg
>good city car
>cup holder
>can't spill cup no matter how much you try
>cheap

Cons:
>slow af
>can't spill cup, you'll rather spill car
>horrible vision blocker to the left
>parking is awful
>limited space for how big it is

Automatic, too.

Unrelated but did I go full ricer with these new wheels?

I'm not a fan.

2008 PT Cruiser

>tons of room inside
>comfy as hell (seats comfy, good ride)
>insurance cheap as fuck
>Great visibility
>AC/heat work like fucking magic

>rattles. EVERYWHERE.
>ugly
>no power at all, must turn off AC/radio/fan to merge or climb steep hills
>horrible in snow
>torque steers like a motherfucker despite having no power

Currently needs bushings up front, probably could use new suspension too.

To add more things
Pros:
>can hit 118mph on flat ground
>local track lets me run it without a cage, makes a surprisingly decent rally shitbox


Cons:
>tan cloth interior (super easy to stain)
>turning radius is approximately 1 Astronomical Unit.
>fuel economy of a fucking steamroller

Yes. The mud flaps aren't helping either.

Ive been getting like 26 mpg city driving, mostly to work and home. Its rated at 30 in the city. Highway wise a trip from my house to LA (about 4 hours) gave me 38mpg.

>turbo lag
Maybe it's because it's only the second turbo car I've owned after my 02 WRX but I don't feel this at all. Everything else I agree on

Is this /ourcar/?

yes. the red stripe really fucks the entire thing.

dont mind me, just forgot how to count and format

pros
>sounds insane despite the unassuming exterior
>aftermarket short shifter feels great to use
>old fashioned clutch/cable throttle feel great to use
>can walk ricers with ease, definitely a sleeper
>all of my car friends laugh and smile when they drive it

cons
>fwd
>looks like microwaved poo
>interior is classic jap 90s utilitarian
>the opposite of an attention grabber, never get questions, never get comments, not even at meets
>its a 20 year old car that comes with 20 year old car problems

im just going to kill myself

pros
>sounds insane despite the unassuming exterior
>aftermarket short shifter feels great to use
>old fashioned clutch/cable throttle feel great to use
>can walk ricers with ease, definitely a sleeper
>all of my car friends laugh and smile when they drive it

cons
>fwd
>looks like microwaved poo
>interior is classic jap 90s utilitarian
>the opposite of an attention grabber, never get questions, never get comments, not even at meets
>its a 20 year old car that comes with 20 year old car problems

2004 1.2l base model Fiesta (first car)
Pros:
>fun to drive considering its size, feels quick round corners
>nice gearbox for non-major roads, likes fast changes
>very low mileage (25k miles for a 13 year-old car)
>reasonably comfy
>simple car, no frills or computer shit
Cons
>incredibly anaemic in a straight line
>shitload of travel on the brake pedal
>very noisy at anything above 2,500-3,000 revs
>gearing is all fucked up, it's happy to be in 5th at 40mph so when you get up to motorway speeds you constantly feel like there should be another cog

>e36
Clean simple interior
Boxy looks
I6
Future classic
People who know what it is thinks it's cool, to everyone else it's just a 20 year bmw

Gutless american version
Tiny, I can't fit inside with a helmet negating the reason I bought it
Fingers touch and smudge the windshield if I use my palm to turn wheel
Silver, not based yellow
Don't really like the wheels

wow just wow

clearly something is amiss

nice copy-paste skills user

What is that

put the Gatorade bottles top down in the cupholder. I am an avid Gatorade enthusiast so I have had this problem many times in my Mustang.

I don't really like Motegi wheels senpai.

I'm looking at Rota Grids or OZ Superturismos for my FiST famalam.

>rotas

It's probably the cheapest turboed car in NA. That's relatively newer and reliable.

Volk doesn't make TE37s in 4x108 and I don't wanna pay a fortune buying blanks and getting them done at a machine shop or something. 4x108 wheels are scarce. I also don't want to buy wheels with a bunch of wholes for 4x108 and 4x100 or something.