Becoming interested in Turkic people and Cacuases history

>Becoming interested in Turkic people and Cacuases history
>Get interested in Azerbaijan
What can Veeky Forums tell me about Azerbaijans history from all eras, significant moments and significant people from there or who were ethnically Azeri.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Magomayev_(musician)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_Massacre
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_volcanoes_in_Azerbaijan
youtube.com/watch?v=hRfQ52cz7TE
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_War
youtube.com/watch?v=L2j5KdNXaOs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag_Qoyunlu
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaznavids
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk_Empire
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazmian_dynasty
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_Empire
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Koyunlu
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty#Genealogy.E2.80.94ancestors_of_the_Safavids_and_its_multi-cultural_identity
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

I know they have cool folk music and try to claim every famous Central Asian as Azeri.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Magomayev_(musician)

Mizra Akhundov was Azeri ethnically, he was a great writer and strong advocate of secularism and atheism. He was very critical of Iran and Azerbaijan, Islam and eastern life.

So basically a semi cuckold ?

It's a fake country that got it's name from the Safavids that conquered it
Up until then it was ruled by an arab dynasty of persian wannabes called the Shirvanshahs and the nation "Azerbaijan" was known as Shirvan. The population are native to the Caucaus (obviously) were a mix of people with identity crisis caused by the different ruling dynasties but still spoke caucaus native languages.

However, when the turks and different persianate dynasties moved in things changed and they would start to develope the same identity crisis the Seljuks left behind in Anatolia.
Basically the Safavids took the name of the real region called Azerbaijan (which is in todays Northern Iran) and strapped it on there to make things simpler while the population gradually became "turkified" cause of the kebabflinging contest between them and the Ottomans.

However shit is even more complicated then that as to the origin of the name "Azerbaijan" itself and the azeri language but since you are just interested in the turkic part, I'll leave it at that.

> describe events spanning from 9th century to currents day
> "it's a fake country with no history!"

I ment in name

It's basically a colonial state of armenians in denial that jumped on the turkic bandwagon after they got conquered but share no real ethnic values with actual azeris

Aezeri word for weapon means dick in turkish.
So azerbeijan armed forces in turkish roughly means azerbeijan dicked forces.

Azerbaijani are not Turkic.

They have fantastic racist jokes, it's kind of strange that so much of their culture is based on racism and yet they have very peaceful race relations.

Any examples of Azeri racist jokes

They are Turks (or maybe Tatars, at least until the early 20th century everyone called Azeris Tatars) who follow Shiite Islam, but are very secular, more then Turkey. Fun fact: Ataturk largely based his ideology on the defunct Azerbaijani Musavat Party.

Most Azerbaijanis don't live in Azerbaijan, but in Northern Iran. However, the people in Azerbaijan don't really care about that clay, but they are still incredibly butthurt about a couple of mountains that they lost in the '90-s to Armenia.

I am Azeri, who lives in Azerbaijan, ask your questions

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_Massacre

Why do Azeris obsess over Karabakh, where only Armenians live nowdays, and don't focus on uniting with their compatriots in Northern Iran?

not him but >why were frenchies so assblasted about Alsace-Lorraine where only germans lived at all times

it's the same thing, it was rightfully their land and they got pretty much genocided by the armenians

Not him but you might aswell ask why azeris in northern Iran live peacefully with the nations biggest armenian community or why Khameini who himself is a azeri together with most of Iran's top military commanders don't give a fuck helping them in their war but rather keep close ties to Armenia.

Neither side cares about the others conflicts and this union meme was started during USSR times to agitate the locals and is used by Turkey today.

How close is the Azeri language to Armenian or Georgian? Is there still any relation like that user from before said or has it become completely turkified?

How important is religion in Azerbaijan?

What attitude towards the Armenian genocide/massacre/whatever of 1915 do you have?

Any fun facts about your country that foreigners would not know?

tell me a racist joke

1) A lot of people had to immigrate to other cities of Azerbaijan and can't go bach home now
2) It's rightfully our land, even Armenia doesn't recognises NCR
3) Relatives of ones who died during war are still alive
4) Azeris in Iran live peacefully with persians and other minorities, very few conflicts happend during all these years
5) It's much easier to fight against Armenia than Iran, and even if we cloud fight with Iran we wouldn't do it

as a turk I always found azeri to be nearly exactly the same language, just pronounced and written oddly. you could compare it to german vs austrian / swiss

>How close is the Azeri language to Armenian or Georgian?
Not close at all, but armenians adopted a lot of turkish words during rule Ottoman Empire so sometimes you can meet an Azeri with second name "Balaev" and Armenian with second name "Balayan"
Also what this guy said is true
and same thing can be said about Turkmenian
>How important is religion in Azerbaijan?
In big cities people are mostly secular, but as you go further and further from big city you will meet more and more durkas.
I am an atheist and 70% of my friends are either atheists or agnostisc or deists and rest of them are secular muslims.
But sadly young generation gets more and more religoius beacuse of gulenists, nurchus and other similar movements. Our goverment fights against this tho, for example girls can't wear hijab in schools.
Also picrelated.
>What attitude towards the Armenian genocide/massacre/whatever of 1915 do you have?
We deny it.
>Any fun facts about your country that foreigners would not know?
Azerbaijan was the first Muslim country ever to enfranchise women.
Also this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mud_volcanoes_in_Azerbaijan
>Azerbaijan is in the first place in the world for the amount of mud volcanoes.

...

Thanks for the reply. Here are some more questions if you don't mind:

How is the Soviet Union remembered?

Do you consider yourself European or Caucasian, Persian, oriental, etc...?
I remember watching a tourism commercial on Euronews saying something about "European this and that near the Caspian Sea". Was that just a marketing slogan or does it reflect a general sentiment in the country?

What work sectors are the most common in Azerbaijan? Oil industry, tourism?

Because iranian azeris dont give a fuck about azerbaijan

Turks colonists

They displaced the albo niggers and took their territory.

>How is the Soviet Union remembered?
Depends on the person, but most of people prefer modern day Azerbaijan.
>Do you consider yourself European or Caucasian, Persian, oriental, etc...?
I remember watching a tourism commercial on Euronews saying something about "European this and that near the Caspian Sea". Was that just a marketing slogan or does it reflect a general sentiment in the country?
Turkic or caucsian.
But "the link between Europe and Asia" meme is quite common here.
>What work sectors are the most common in Azerbaijan? Oil industry, tourism?
Oil industry of course but tourism sector is also improving.

This explains so much holy shit

not all of them
youtube.com/watch?v=hRfQ52cz7TE

Is wearing a hijab seen as a taboo? Do you think there'll be more freedom regarding hijab in the future?

They have based literature.

>Is wearing a hijab seen as a taboo? Do you think there'll be more freedom regarding hijab in the future?
It's not a taboo but it's harder to find a job if you wear hijab and like i said before it's forbiden to wear hijab at school.
Not shure how it will be in future

Why would the gov bans a cloth? Any Madrassa in Azerbaijan?

Persian turks.
Persian outskirts until the 19th century.
After, russian outskirt.
After 1917 first secular islamic state in the history. Republic in USSR until 1991.
After 1991 "independent". Full of oil, but still poor.
Had a bloody anti-armenian genocide in 90s, and permanent war on west side.

A bunch of wannabe mongols squatting on historic Armenian lands. Because those Tatars had no history or identity of their own, they tried to co-op the identity of actual Azeris from Iran, to the point where they renamed the area they're squatting on to Azerbaijan.

Their entire national identity is based on butthurt from being BTFO in the Artsakh war, as a result they're trying to keep land inhabited by people who hate their guts and don't want to be a part of their country.

Their "people" pretty much hate everything that isn't Turkic, they also chimp out whenever they think they can get away with it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov. Not to mention their ethnic cleansing of Armenians in Baku and Ganja.

So yeah they're just batshit insane, the lot of them.

Iranian Azeris are ethnically still the same, Azerbaijani Azeris are Turkified (as in their language is largely Turkic and similar to modern Turkish but Russian propaganda in the late 19th and early 20th century brainwashed them into thinking they were always Turks).

Yet no azeri from iran joined azerbaijan in the armenia-azerbaijan wars while armenian iranians did. The people in your video are some hools looking for trouble. Many iranian azeris visit armenia because of the more liberal laws and they dont seem to care at all

Iranian Azeris are not "ethnic" Tuks, what is this retarded /pol/ bullshit with that video.

We don't have any Madrassas yet, but one is being build in Baku.
t.butthurt armenians
I personally know one iranian azeri who fought in armenian-azerbaijani war during 90's.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_War

Doesnt seem like it. All the volunteers were grey wolves and mercenaries

>butthurt armenians

Not as butthurt as you monkeys get over Artsakh.

Probably there wasn't a lot of valunteers from Iran beacuse the goverment supported Armenia. But still there were some.
Also a lot of iranian Azeris visit Azerbaijan during Novruz or summer holidaysand many people here have relatives in Iran, including me.

Lel I didn't even write any bad things about armenians or armenia and you came here and started bitching about us.

There's no proof that the caucasian albania was related to the modern european albania, same as there's no proof that caucasian iberia is related to spain or portugal. Armenians and persians who ruled or neighboured it never called it Albania, it's just greek retardness in naming places.

In an ideal world it would join Iran while maintaining some autonomy (the khanates of the area already had it before the russians arrived) and be the main spearhead of secularism and modernity inside the country.

Not happening any time soon if ever though. Pan-turkism in Azerbaijan and political islam in Iran make it not only unlikely but also undesirable.

Well i have also azeri heritage but i never encountered much seperatistic tendencies there. Most of them cant even speak azeri. They share the same struggle like any other ethnicity living under the ayatollahs which also have prominent azeri figures. I even doubt that azerbaijan azeris and iranian ones have much common. I mean they were seperated for more than 200 years under completely different ideologies and governments.

Also the government couldnt really stop anyone from going to azerbaijan.

Gonna contribute my personal anecdotal knowledge:

I met an azeri girl from Orumieh in Barcelona and, since in Barcelona sooner or later you end up talking about separatism, we talked about this a little. From what I gathered the concern was more over azeri being marginalized by persian than an actual desire to seek independence, she mentioned separatists exist but they're not a majority.

Another azeri girl I met in Tehran couldn't even speak the language and, while she mentioned he would like to understand it, she didn't seem to actually care much.

Yeah, I already said that azeris live peacefully with persians and other minorities in Iran, but that doesn't mean that we don't care about each other.
>I even doubt that azerbaijan azeris and iranian ones have much common. I mean they were seperated for more than 200 years under completely different ideologies and governments.
Yup, you are most likely right about this

One persian on /int/ talled me that you wan't get an answer in Tabriz if you ask in persian.
Not sure if it's true because last time I've been in Tabriz I was 6

Yeah, when you look at the actual situation in Iran you find that it's really just Azeris worried that their language will die out.

You actually are seeing this happen with smaller languages like Gilaki and Mazdaki.

The issue is that Pan-Turkists (99% of them all from Turkey or Azerbaijan Republic) who exaggerate the issue to ridiculous amounts, claim that the situation of Azeris in Iran is like Kurds in Turkey, that there are "35 million Azeri Turks in Iran" that are waiting to revolt and join a "Greater Azerbaijan", and that Iran will balkanize in 20 years. You see Turks claiming that Iran could never fight against Turkey, because then the Azeris will all suddenly rise up and fight against Iran.

You see this quite often from Turk and Azerbaijani posters in /sg/ for instance, or on plebbit from Turks and Azeris.

Really though the best thing for Iran to do is just let Azerbaijani and Kurdish be taught at schools, even if they're just singular Azeri-language courses with the rest of the curriculum in Persian, that alone would shut up half of the activists.

Personally I would be in favor of minority languages being taught in public school in their region the same way Arabic is taught from 6th grade in all Iranian schools (and it's a mandatory course too), along with letting them have some universities that are primarily in their own language. There doesn't need to be extremes, just give these concessions and make it the red line, it ends the problem right there and removes any shred of legitimacy from foreign Pan-Turkists.

>colonial state of persians in denial
Fixed.

I'm not an Armenian you cuck.

Wouldnt they gradually demand more and more?

Unlikely.

How are you so sure?

Why did they call Azeris Tatars? Is there an actual connection to the Crimean or Central-Asian Tatars, or was it just a misunderstanding by outsiders?

>Azeris worried that their language will die out.
The irony is that it pretty much already has.

The original azeri language was an indo-iranian language related to pahlavi persian.
It died out around the time of the Qajar dynasty but what killed it was the mass migration of turkish expats during the Safavid era from Ottoman lands.

Are there any traces of the language left?

So azeris are basically caucasians that got turked hard and now they're mullato turks?

in tabriz-persian probably

modern azeri has alot of persian loan words so there could be that also

Its just caucasians LARPing as steppe warlords. Pretty pathetic desu

Again, if we want to understand who a true Azeri is and untie some of the turkish confusion we have to go back to the origin of the name which is a long history lesson:

First of the name "Azerbaijan" is a turkic/arabic corruption of Atropatene, which was at first a vassal state to the Seleucids back when Alexander conquered Persia but when he died it became a independent kingdom. The name Atropatene ment and still does in its new form "The Land of Fire", which is evident cause Persians had a thing for fire back then.
Before that it was a Satrapy to the Achaemenids and part of the former Medes region (hence the name Media Atropatene was given to it by the greeks).

Now fast forward a few centuries after the Parthians, after the Sassanids, after the Arabs and the Turks would turn Iran into a metropolitan expressway on how to create your own Persianate state and you still got this region but it's called Azebaijan.
From that region a guy was born that was called Ismail and whom would establish the Safavid dynasty. Now him and his heirs would go out of their way to conquer a bunch of shit.
One place in particular is Shirvan, which is pretty much the region of the modern Republic of Azerbaijan.
Now Shirvan, which was the former artist known as Caucaus Albania and Arran was a nation of your average different ethnic groups from the Caucaus region with other colonizers through the Iranian expressway and ruled by a arab/persian dynasty.
When one of the Safavid kings conquered the place he thought it would be a great idea to call it Azerbaijan, cause of it's close proximity with to Northern Iran and the fact that everyone would speak more or less turkish that didn't already thanks to their wars with the Ottomans.

And in conclussion you could say that they are basically caucasians that got azeri'd hard.
But again, if you look into the history they and azeri's are basically iranians/caucasians that all got turk'd hard and are causing a enigma of confusion today.

But before they got, t*rked, they got armo'd. Their original Caucasian language was most likely an Eastern-Caucasian language, they even had an own writing system that looked pretty cool, but Armenian slowly displaced it, sadly. Btw for some strange reason the region was known as Caucasian Albania in the ancient times.

The Talysh probably are the only Iranic-speaking descendants left in that region.

No, they're not even mulattos, they have as much Turk admixture as the Spanish have Moor admixture.

It's basically the result of Turkic-speaking rulers (though not necessarily Turkic in race) ruling Iran for approx. 800 or so years, since their power base was primarily in northeastern Iran and Shirvan (the region in modern-day Azerbaijan), the result was the cultural "Turkification" of the local Iranian and Armenian population, as the rulers imposed their culture and language on to the locals. The same way a sizeable numbers of Turkish "Turks" are literally Greeks/Slavs/Circassians (these are the white-looking "Turks") that converted to Islam and adopted the Turkish language.

Depends, are you talking about Iranian Azerbaijan or Caucasian Azerbaijan?

I know a particular man by the name of Ahmad Kasravi managed to compile lots of historical sources to prove Iranian Azeris used to speak a Northwestern Iranian language.

Caucasian Azerbaijanis are probably just Armenians who got culturally Turkified, though.

Pic related shows Caucasus Azeris to be literally the same as their neighbors.

>Azeris are the most dominant and significant Iranian people in Iran after Persians.
>Azeris have massive standing in the civil and military branches of the government.
>Current supreme leader is an Azeri.
>Most Azeris do not support separatism or a new Azeri nation away from Iran.
>Even most Azeris in Tabriz and northern Iran and Iranian Azerbaijan want little to do with Azerbaijan.
I feel pretty confident, admittingly I'm half-Persian and my family in Iran are all Persian (with a bit of Mandazarani) but none of the Azeris I know care about anything but preserving their language.

Not Iranian Azeris, Azerbaijani Azeris but sort of yes.

Turks never ruled Iran for 800 years.

I heard zoroaster might had originate from there is this true?

nah, he was from eastern Iran/transoxiana since he spoke Avesta, which was a language native to eastern Iran

or Russia, if you believe Putin

youtube.com/watch?v=L2j5KdNXaOs

Wew

The area around which Zoroaster/Zaruthusthra originated from is most likely between northeastern Iran, somewhere in Tajikistan, or central or northern Afghanistan.

sogdiana, bactria, oxus

it is Turkic..

*turkified

same thing

...

As a native North Caucasian I don't like Azerbaijan desu. It is a state which should not exist.
Northern Azeris are Natives, which are partly turkified. The Southern Part are Armenians and Iranians who speak a turkish language. There is not really a ethnicity Azeri.
It is similar to Turkey. Just turkified people, not really Turkic tho.

Azerbaijani Azeris are Turkified, not Iranian Azeris who still retain their original culture and customs/traditions. Another thing pointed out correctly is Shirvan ! = is not the real Azerbaijan, Iranian Azerbaijan is. Like how explained here:

>turkic = turkish
>seljuks
>later mongol generations
>tamerlane
>turkic safavid dynasty
kinda adds up m8

Circassian?

>Seljuk Empire
Barely a century.
>Mongols
Not Turkic. Also under the unified Mongols, about from 1259 to 1294, under the Ilkhanate less then 80 years.
>Tamerlane
Tamerlane's Empire was extremely shortlived: by 1500-1501, they had already lost most of Iran to Ishamil the Great. So barely a century there as well.
>Safavids
>Turkic
Don't be fucking retarded, the Safavoids were a Persian-Azeri-Kurdish dynasty, entirely Iranic and Persianized.

Azerbaijan is northwestern Iran. They speak a Turkic language but other than that differ in no way from Persians. In fact, they practically created the modern Iranian nation. Ethno-linguitsic nationalism, which seeks to separate people based on language alone, was alien to the Muslim world until the 20th century. Trying to apply European concepts of ethnic nationalism onto Middle Eastern peoples is what's created so much confusion here, with this retarded 'Turks vs Iranians' idea; in reality, throughout Iran and Central Asia the main distinction was historically between nomads and farmers/urbanites, regardless of language. For example, what we today call Uzbeks were historically called Tajiks despite speaking Uzbek Turkic because they farmed and lived in cities. Only the nomadic ruling class were called Uzbeks.

What we call Azerbaijan today is Shirvan, a separate region that ended up speaking the same language and being renamed by the Russians.

Some Shirvani architecture.

...

There are a lot of these small castles.

Shirvan was literally an Azerbijani-Araboo nation. Iranian Azerbaijan = real Azerbaijan.

Safavids weren't Turkic, you silly guy. The Safavoids were like said, a Persian dynasty which has its actually genelogy and lineage known to us from Ishamil, his father, and grandfather from Kurds and Azeris and potentially a small admixture of Pontic Greeks. They were never Turkic or Turkish.

Even the rulers of the Ottoman Empire at the time acknowledged the ethnic nature of the Safavids being Iranian while addressing Ishmail and his successors as heirs of Kai Khosrow. Safavids are to modern Persians in the same way the Samanids were to the ancient Persians like the Sassanids.

...

That looks quite cool

>Azerbaijan is in the first place in the world for the amount of mud volcanoes.

you forgot to mention
>Khwarazmian empire
>Qara Qoyunlu dynasty
>Ağ Qoyunlu dynasty
>Afsharid Dynasty
>Qajar Dynasty
>They were never Turkic or Turkish.
Ismail's grandfather was Uzun Hassan and he wrote most of his poetry in turkic.

The Safavids were not Turkic you fucking retard. They hailed from Ardabil, a region famous for Georgians, Circassians, Persians, Greeks, Kurds, and Azeris, Richard Fry's information is outdated and completely invalidated by the Safavid's recorded genealogical tree, stemming from a Kurdish Sufist. Stop with your Turanist bullshit.

Also

>Khwarazmian dynasty
48 years.
>Qara Qoyunlu dynasty
Less then a century and on top of that only controlled a nominal area in the lower Caucasus and a small part of Iran, try again.
>Ağ Qoyunlu dynasty
A confederation of the above meme Turkic dynasty. And most of their history they were vassals, not rulers of only a part of Iran. Try again.
>Afsharid dynasty
Nader Shah and that's it, barely sixty years and really not relevant after Nader died.
>Qajars
132 years.

Where is this 800 years meme you keep making up? The Safavids weren't Turks ever and the Khwarazmians were garbage and the Mongols are not Turks. And I want to see proof of Hassan being a Turk.

>The Safavids were not Turkic you fucking retard. They hailed from Ardabil, a region famous for Georgians, Circassians, Persians, Greeks, Kurds, and Azeris, Richard Fry's information is outdated and completely invalidated by the Safavid's recorded genealogical tree, stemming from a Kurdish Sufist. Stop with your Turanist bullshit.
Are you fucking blind? I didn't write that Ismail was Turkic, i said he was related to Turkics throught his grandfather.
> And I want to see proof of Hassan being a Turk.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag_Qoyunlu
>The Ağ Qoyunlu or Ak Koyunlu, also called the White Sheep Turkomans (Persian: آق قویونلو Āq Quyūnlū), was a Sunni[1] Oghuz Turkic tribal federation
>Where is this 800 years meme you keep making up?
He probably meant that for 800 years Iran was cucked by diffrent Turkic dynasties and thats truth

and I guess
Iran was literally the whore of the middle east, being passed around from ruler to ruler. I could list all the fucking different rulers and you could tell me how "iranic and persianized" they were, but the fact that they were so asshurt and desperate that they turned to Shia Islam out of their special snowflake complex kinda tells enough. Regardless, the unified Greater Seljuk Empire didnt last long, correct, but its successor states did, and even long before them large parts of Iran were being conquered and fought over by central asian steppes. You have to be really delusional to think there were any significant periods in which they were ruled by actual Iranians.

Besides that, the Safavids are direct descendants of the turkish Ak Koyunlu horde, which also ruled over Persia, just like their predecessors, the Kara Koyunlu horde, so your "entirely Iranic and Persianized" meme is just wrong

Nice (You) but the Safavids were never Turkics, Hassyan is not an attested historical figure and the Safavid family tree is well known.

>direct descendants of the Ak Konyulu
No they weren't.
>Iran was cucked for 800 years by Turkic dynasties
No they weren't, you retarded Turanist. Stop lying, everyone already knows you Turkshits have nothing, your revisionism doesn't work.

>Being Turkic is defined purely on your language

I guess the Mughals must have been Persian then, given that they spoke Persian and it was the official language of their empire.

>Ismail's grandfather was Uzun Hassan and he wrote most of his poetry in turkic

His grandmother was also a Pontic Greek, and he had significant Kurdish ancestry as well.

Not to mention that he also wrote quite a few poems in Persian, and named all three of his sons after Shahnameh characters.

> 800 years Iran was cucked by diffrent Turkic dynasties

Didn't you claim that Ismail wasn't Turkic? How would his dynasty be Turkic then?

If you're going by lineage, couldn't you also claim that the Ottomans were a Greek and Balkan Slav empire, given that only 3 out of the 26 or so Turkish sultans had Turkish mothers?

>they were so asshurt and desperate that they turned to Shia Islam

No worse than the Turks turning to Islam instead of their native Tengriism.

>special snowflake complex

Pretty sure roleplaying as an Asiatic Mongol is far worse than any "special snowflake complex".

>Besides that, the Safavids are direct descendants of the turkish Ak Koyunlu horde, which also ruled over Persia, just like their predecessors, the Kara Koyunlu horde, so your "entirely Iranic and Persianized" meme is just wrong

That doesn't make them a Turkic dynasty though, Ismail was a direct descendant of the last king of Trebizond, as well as the king of Georgia. I don't see anyone claiming the Safavids as a Greek, Kurdish, or Georgian dynasty.

>so your "entirely Iranic and Persianized" meme is just wrong

You seem to define being Turkic on some pretty vague terms. Does simply speaking a Turkic language make the empire a "Turkic dynasty"? Does simply having a few Turkic ancestors suddenly make a person and his empire completely Turkic?

It seems your definition of "Turkic" switches between ancestry and language in every one of your posts. So which one is it?

Alright fine, I'll waste my time listing this shit for you butthurt Iranians.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaznavids
>The Ghaznavid dynasty (Persian: غزنویان ġaznaviyān) was a Persianate[10] Muslim dynasty of Turkic mamluk origin.
>977-1186

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk_Empire
>The Seljuk Empire or Great Seljuk Empire (also spelled Seljuq) was a medieval Turko-Persian[15] Sunni Muslim empire, originating from the Qynyq branch of Oghuz Turks.
>1037–1194

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazmian_dynasty
>The Khwarazmian dynasty (IPA: [kwəˈræzmiːən];[7] also known as the Khwarezmid dynasty, dynasty of Khwarazm Shahs, and other spelling variants; from (Persian: خوارزمشاهیان, translit. Khwārazmshāhiyān "Kings of Khwarezmia") was a Persianate[8][9][10] Sunni Muslim dynasty of Turkic mamluk origin.
>1077–1231

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_Empire
>The Timurid Empire (Persian: تیموریان), self-designated as Gurkani (Persian: گورکانیان, Gūrkāniyān), was a Persianate[4][5] Turco-Mongol empire comprising modern-day Iran, the Caucasus, Mesopotamia, Afghanistan, much of Central Asia, as well as parts of contemporary Pakistan, Syria, and Turkey.
>1370-1507

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Koyunlu
>The Kara Koyunlu or Qara Qoyunlu, also called the Black Sheep Turkomans (Persian: قرا قویونلو), were a Shi'a[2] Oghuz Turkic tribal federation[...]
>1375–1468

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag_Qoyunlu
>The Ağ Qoyunlu or Ak Koyunlu, also called the White Sheep Turkomans (Persian: آق قویونلو Āq Quyūnlū), was a Sunni[1] Oghuz Turkic tribal federation that ruled present-day Azerbaijan, Armenia, Eastern Turkey, part of Iran, and northern Iraq from 1378 to 1501.[2]

pic related should show you regarding the safavid stuff

">Being Turkic is defined purely on your language

I guess the Mughals must have been Persian then, given that they spoke Persian and it was the official language of their empire. "
>If I ignore half your argument and pretend to be retarded maybe you will agree with me

"Didn't you claim that Ismail wasn't Turkic? How would his dynasty be Turkic then?" he didn't

"No worse than the Turks turning to Islam instead of their native Tengriism."
Yes, because turning to the major religion of the time makes you such a special little snowflake

"Pretty sure roleplaying as an Asiatic Mongol is far worse than any "special snowflake complex"."
Except they were an asiatic horde long before they knew of mongols and abandoned the tribal life

"You seem to define being Turkic on some pretty vague terms. Does simply speaking a Turkic language make the empire a "Turkic dynasty"? Does simply having a few Turkic ancestors suddenly make a person and his empire completely Turkic?

It seems your definition of "Turkic" switches between ancestry and language in every one of your posts. So which one is it?"


The Turkic peoples are a collection of ethnic groups that live in central, eastern, northern, and western Asia as well as parts of eastern Europe. They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family.[24] They share, to varying degrees, certain cultural traits and historical backgrounds. The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of peoples including existing societies such as Altai, Azerbaijanis, Balkars, Bashkirs, Chuvashes, Crimean Karaites, Gagauz, Karachays, Karakalpaks, Kazakhs, Khakas, Krymchaks, Kyrgyz people, Nogais, Qashqai, Tatars, Turkmens, Turks, Tuvans, Uyghurs, Uzbeks, and Yakuts and as well as ancient and medieval states such as Dingling, Bulgars, Chuban, Göktürks, Khazars, Khiljis, Kipchaks, Kumans, Ottoman Turks, Seljuk Turks, Tiele, Timurids, Turgeshes, Yenisei Kirghiz, and possibly Huns, Tuoba, Wusun, and the Xiongnu

Since you're listing Wikipedia, here's something from the wikipedia page on the Safavids:

>The Safavid Kings themselves claimed to be Seyyeds,[32] family descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, although many scholars have cast doubt on this claim.[33] There seems now to be a consensus among scholars that the Safavid family hailed from Persian Kurdistan,[23] and later moved to Azerbaijan, finally settling in the 11th century CE at Ardabil. Traditional pre-1501 Safavid manuscripts trace the lineage of the Safavids to the Kurdish dignitary, Firuz Shah Zarin-Kulah.[24][34]

According to some historians,[35][36] including Richard Frye, the Safavids were of Turkicized Iranian origin:[25]

The Turkish speakers of Azerbaijan are mainly descended from the earlier Iranian speakers, several pockets of whom still exist in the region. A massive migration of Oghuz Turks in the 11th and 12th centuries not only Turkified Azerbaijan but also Anatolia. The Azeri Turks are Shiʿites and were founders of the Safavid dynasty.

Other historians, such as Vladimir Minorsky[37] and Roger Savory, support this idea:[38]

From the evidence available at the present time, it is certain that the Safavid family was of indigenous Iranian stock, and not of Turkish ancestry as it is sometimes claimed. It is probable that the family originated in Persian Kurdistan, and later moved to Azerbaijan, where they adopted the Azari form of Turkish spoken there, and eventually settled in the small town of Ardabil sometimes during the eleventh century.

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>By the time of the establishment of the Safavid empire, the members of the family were native Turkish-speaking and Turkicized,[11][39] and some of the Shahs composed poems in their native Turkish language. Concurrently, the Shahs themselves also supported Persian literature, poetry and art projects including the grand Shahnameh of Shah Tahmasp,[40][41] while members of the family and some Shahs composed Persian poetry as well.[42][43] The authority of the Safavids was religiously based, and their claim to legitimacy was founded on being direct male descendants of the Ali,[44] the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, and regarded by Shi'ites as the first Imam.

>Furthermore, the dynasty was from the very start thoroughly intermarried with both Pontic Greek as well as Georgian lines.[45] In addition, from the official establishment of the dynasty in 1501, the dynasty would continue to have many intermarriages with both Circassian as well as again Georgian dignitaries, especially with the advent of king Tahmasp I.[27][28]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty#Genealogy.E2.80.94ancestors_of_the_Safavids_and_its_multi-cultural_identity

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