How did Italian Mafia turned into the most influential crime organization in history?

literally jews
im not even /pol/ing

Organisations like the Mafia and Colombian/Mexican cartels seem like their members (at least the foot troops) are heavily and quite genuinely Catholic. How do they reconcile the stuff they do with their religious beliefs? Is it just a case of following an old school 'confess and you'll be right' brand of Catholicism?

They were heavily subsidized in the US for over a decade when the government decided to ban fun.

Locally yes.
Regionwide, it's the triads that run underworld shit now in Asia.

The same way those animals raise families and have children?

They turn a blind eye towards it.

>How do they reconcile the stuff they do with their religious beliefs?
>implying religious people aren't deluded morons who act selfishly and violently like everyone else

Maybe, but there's usually at least some sort of justification based on defending the faith or killing heretics or something along those lines. I'm far from having any sort of expertise when it comes to theology, but it seems like if you genuinely believed in the religion (and I don't know, perhaps they don't actually) and believed in things like hell, you'd be hard pressed to find a justification for the things they do when the only motive is self-enrichment.

Better yet, it's an anti-state, an entity that works against the nation that is hosting it, but has no intention to become a nation-state itself because it would be inconvenient.

And eradicating the Mafia was one of theo nly two things Mussolini did right. Had the Americans decided to keep their emigrated gangsters in, this problem would have been solved.

P.S. : Before you say "but then we Americans would have that problem." The Mafia works and worked because the Italian state has been felt far away and oppressive. Long story short, the early Italian government cured a fever and created a tumor by eliminating banditism and treating ex-Two Sicilians as subhumans. All of this wouldn't have worked in the USA mostly because the Mob would have no leverage whatsoever on the outsiders and no proper justification for fucking up shit.

>Organisations like the Mafia and Colombian/Mexican cartels seem like their members (at least the foot troops) are heavily and quite genuinely Catholic.
I wouldn't know about the Latin American cartels, but mafiosi are Catholic insofar as they undergo the sacraments and funerals out of tradition - like everyone else in Italy, my family is secular but each of us still received the sacraments.

A most terrible problem between mafia and Catholicism is processions where the icon is made to bow in front of the house of the local mafia boss; this defies both the State and the Church as they are deliberately made a fool of and shown to be powerless from preventing these things.

For an English article on similar shit:
bbc.com/news/world-europe-28257442

I recall John Paul II saying "mafiosi are excommunicated", but it's just empty words with no corresponding actions.

Catholicism doesn't have a good track recod when it comes to opposing the people who actually wield power, sacraments and funerals are performed by the priests out of a vain hope for redemption and salvation, and out of fear.

>How do they reconcile the stuff they do with their religious beliefs?
A priest was commenting that they pray that they won't get caught and similar things not out of religiosity but out of (what a priest would call) superstition.

The mafia has no respect for any institution, be it religious and secular, other than its family, they don't have to reconcile anything, they're not theologians, all they understand is violence and coercion.

Supersition is a very powerful factor in these kind of things. And what's what it is.

Thanks, that was an excellent summary

This. The Yakuza are pretty much just sleazy porn directors and club owners in weird suits.

No. Take a good hard look at just how deep the Mafia in Italy had entrenched themselves to the point that they effectively are the power in certain areas in Italy.

Christianity is the perfect religion for sinners because it teaches that you don't have to take any responsibility for what you do, just confess and Jesus will magic it all away. It's why so many Christians claim atheists "just love their sins too much to admit they know god is real", they see sin in everyone because they are themselves morally weak people whose religion does nothing to teach them ethics.

Is it possible for a state to reverse endemic corruption and the presence of these sort of criminal groups? Are groups like the mafia and cartels entirely modern phenomena, or are there historical examples of similar things?

Yes but it's a long-term process. The key is to set up good new institutions with the necessary powers to take the profit out of crime.

>Are groups like the mafia and cartels entirely modern phenomena, or are there historical examples of similar things?

There are many historical organisations that compare, they tended to be more localised than the Mafia, tho. Where you find crime, you find criminal organisations.

How euphoric.

>I posted it again mommy!

Hollywood and Los Vegas

>Are groups like the mafia and cartels entirely modern phenomena, or are there historical examples of similar things?
Modern? The mafia is dated to the beginning of the 19th Century when the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was transitioning out of feudalism, it was basically founded by people in-between the peasants and the aristocracy, "sects, fraternities, parties, gangs."

The very earliest mention of mafia in its contemporary sense of what we'd call organizzazione di stampo mafioso is from 1837.

>The very earliest mention of mafia in its contemporary sense of what we'd call organizzazione di stampo mafioso is from 1837

Most people would class that as Modern, though.

What are these institutions? I suppose I've just never read anything that came close to resembling a solution to, say, the Mexican cartels. They all seem to posit solutions that aren't politically achievable, such as legalising drugs and undercutting the cartels. I understand setting up institutions, but how do you set up these institutions when the people who hold power and can influence the state will simply stop that from happening before it gains any traction?

I suppose what I'm really asking is whether the state can actually solve these issues, or you need the people to turn against cartels or grow so frustrated with corruption they turn on the government?

I wasn't very clear in my post, what I meant was whether criminal groups that are so powerful that they are virtually untouchable by the state are modern.

>Yeah fuck you dad, I don't need your magic sky fairy to tell me what to do!
>People? More like sheeple haha amirite?
>P-please notice me d-daddy ;(((

>What are these institutions?

Chiefly, a fully independent court system, coupled with the will to enforce it's rulings. But it's a generational strategy, you'll never stop existing criminals from remaining criminals even if you throw them all in jail, the idea is to show the next generation that crime is a loosing game and simultaneously to offer them an alternative, government make-work projects like the New Deal are great for this.

When there was Him, he sent the army and they stopped every activity. And people still say he was bad for Italy.

Well, you're talking about people who barely function as rational human beings to be honest. For example, just so you can understand how out of touch they are: one of the most important illegal activities they practice is to bury the waste businesses produce in their lands. Now this is a great business move for them because since they don't pay taxes for these activities, they can easily demand far lower prices than the ones that legal activities ask for, attracting an incredible amount of revenue. On the other hand, lands are becoming shit, people are starting to stumble upon wastes, the stench is unsustainable in sone places and to top this off, many products made in these lands are sold to big companies to make finished products. What I'm trying to say is, these guys preach love for their families when the very land they live on and the very things they eat are toxic and dangerous to the sons they are raising. In the same way, they don't bother too much with killing priests, despite being so religious and loving the word of God so much. They don't actually have any contact with reality anymore, they are trying to profit off of their activities as much as they can before some gang war starts or the police gets on their ass.

I take your point, but you'd think getting to the level of power they've achieved requires at least a bit of rational thinking. I hate to seem cynical, but surely you need to put what these people do down to the context in which they live - are cartel bosses just the same sort of people who'd have been amoral businessmen had they grown up in a developed country?

Criminals in general are a low-iq population but of course there are smart ones and they are the ones who establish lasting criminal syndicates.

But yes, there has to be an alternative if you want to fight crime, it's no good just arresting them all because a new crop of bosses will spring up, you have to strike at their roots and at the same time provide an alternative for local communities.

I think you should perceive them as businessmen in the first place. They run a business. The catch is that they don't follow the same rules normal business have to follow.
Honestly, rational business thinking, especially when you have no rules to follow, doesn't mean you are a rational human being. Maybe I kinda worded it wrong, but what I'm trying to say is that they don't really think of their consequences, as long as they're trying to reach for that highest profit attainable. They just have no empathy. Also, level of power generally means where you are in the mafia hierarchy. They generally follow a pyramidal scheme and for lower guys to raise to more prominent if not even the highest parts of the hierarchy they just need to make a gang war once they feel their business has become large enough and they have the right connection.

With backing from the Vatican, the Vatican Bank, aka the Bank of America.