Does anybody here drive a Ford Explorer or a Jeep Cherokee...

Does anybody here drive a Ford Explorer or a Jeep Cherokee? I'm looking for a 1998-2005 SUV and those are my two main choices so far. Any comments on which one would be beter suited as a daily driver? I'd also like to do some light off roading.

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neither

1st gen crv

why either?

I like how they look. Why shouldn't I get either of those?
No thanks

My mother has had a 2003 Explorer since it was new and still drives it today. There has been the usual rusting of suspension parts (Michigan winters) but it's laster longer than I thought it would. Last I drove it, it had an issue with it thinking one of the rear doors was open or something if I recall correctly, but engine has been solid (the V6 model)

Don't buy a post 2002 explorer, they're garbage.

>doesn't elaborate

I have a 2001 jeep Cherokee as well as a 2001 grand chero AMA

>doesn't use google
Their numerous problems are well documented, look it up.

Brother has a 2001 Grand Cherokee with 540,000km on it. v8, not the straight 6

Cool, I'm considering a grand cherokee as well.
Which one do you use as daily? How's the mileage? How many miles on both of them? Do you off road in them? Any specific problems I should be aware of?

Have you owned one?

The third gen explorer you posted is trash. The second gen explorers are god tier. Look for 98-01 and try to get one with the V8.

Yeah I'm aware I can look why they're trash, but "just look it up" can be said for every second thread on Veeky Forums. I'm asking for first hand experience here or at least a quick rundown, assuming you guys actually own(ed) these cars.

Avoid 02-05 Explorer/Mountaineer unless it's an absolutely mint V8 one.

V6 motors shit timing chain guides, dumbass engine design has chains on both sides of the motor, rear one is an engine out job.
Prematurely failing wheel bearings, front ball joints, rear diffs, transmissions, and transfer cases. Just a whole lot of common failure points, in no way justifiable for a boring mainstream American car. I will recommend a previous gen 95-01 truck however. They did come with the same SOHC 4.0L in later years, and the 5R55 transmission is known for solenoid issues, and the front ends are still pretty prone to wearing out balljoints, but overall they are better in terms of reliability, and easier to work on. Maybe find a V8 of that gen, that avoids the timing chain issues, gets you a stronger transmission, while not really losing much MPG.

XJ Cherokees tend to be overpriced for very rusty ones these days IMO. Strong transmissions, engines are a bit hit or miss IMO despite what the Veeky Forums and internet hivemind might say about the "legenrady" I6. Nowhere as comfy to commute in as an explorer, or Grand Cherokee.

ZJ Grand Cherokee is worth considering, just confirm that the transmission and t-case have life left in them.

What is your budget anyways? Are you in a northern climate? Post local craigslist and I can vicariously car shop for you.

I have a 2002 Mercury Mountaineer. ~170k miles. Got it at 90k miles, with a salvaged title. It's been a great SUV. I've taken it all over with my off road buddies. It's been stuck, buried to the axles, high centered, all that. It's made it up everywhere my buddies Land Cruiser has been. Of course, no real gnarly trails here though. The transmission went out around 120k miles, but I drive it HARD and really abuse it. That's what the 3rd gen explorers are known for, shit trannies and wheel bearings.

...

I mean, I probably couldn't get $2,000 for mine, but for a 4Runner or Tahoe or similar year/ mileage, you're going to pay 2x-3x for a similarly working vehicle.

I wouldn't suggest one for a commuter, but for a cheap beater, it's the perfect tool.

I'm curious, how much was it to rebuild the trans? Or did you swap in a used one?

Thanks for your constructive post, my budget would be 5-6k euros. And as you can tell, I'm a europoor, from the Netherlands to be precise. So I can't link craigslist.

Anyway, you sound like you know your shit. Now I understand why the 3rd gen explorers should be avoided. Probably going to chose between a 2nd gen explorer and a grand cherokee going by your post. Would you suggest the ZJ or WJ?

One thing nice about the Explorer/ Mountaineer is the buttery smooth power steering. I take mine out hooning in sand and loose dirt, and the steering is awesome. Yeah yeah my buddies Tacoma is a better suited vehicle, but the power steering sucks compared to it, and it's so much harder to control your slides.

The factory thermostat housing's are also a weak part. $30 and that fixes it.

XJ's seemed to be "MOST RELIABLE CAR I'VE EVER HAD" or "So glad I got rid of that POS, always breaking down or overheating" No in between

>them
My grand has 159xxx on the clock and gets about 13 highway, my xj has 97xxx and gets about the same, ive only wheeled the grand but she did fine on the beach/ light trails

I paid $1,500 at a small hole in the wall mexican transmission repair shop. AAMCO quoted like ~$2,600. Ford wanted $2,500 for a remanufactured.

My brother's still laughs at me for paying for a rebuild, it's only 3rd gear that slips on them. He paid $1,400 for a brand new 4L60 transmission for his Chevy C1500, directly from GM, shipped a crate to his front door. They still make those things.

13 mpg? Some reason that's makes me think 4x4 with 35" tires, or maybe 5.9L. But probably not....

If you're Euro, what's the going price for a Prado 90? Pajero II? Isuzu Bighorn/Trooper? Older Pathfinder? Any of those would be my pick by a country mile. Or are you after an American SUV in particular? Here in the States the domestic stuff makes a lot of sense since parts and junkyards are everywhere so they're cheap to run.

Between the two, the biggest day-to-day difference IMO is that the ZJ's cargo are ends up being rather tight since the spare is stored there and eats up a ton of room. I'd avoid really luxed-up WJs, a lot more electrical crap to go wrong inside. I know of at least 3 people that have taken WJs to 200k+ miles on original engines/transmissions without any particular care or special maintenance regimens, although the suspensions and such were totally shot by that point.

Also no serious issue other than maintenance and poorly thought out aftermarket mods on my end

Close, 30's and a 3.7 6 cyl

I have a ford ranger and it's basically the same as the 95-01 ford explorers. It's been a great truck, the problems I've had were minor maintenance things like new ball joints at 150k, new shocks to replace the OEM ones, the intake manifold gasket failed causing the computer to throw lean codes, and the crankshaft position sensor went causing it to stall randomly but it was only a 10 dollar part. I have the 4.0 V6, but it is the OHV version that makes less power but doesn't have timing chain issues like the SOHC version.

How old are you? If you're in school or don't make a lot of money just shut up and buy a civic

Don't go for a 2002-2005 explorer unless you want to be in the shop with wheel bearing and transmission problems all the time

At least based on personal experience

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not after american SUV's in particular, I just like how they look.

I've looked into your alternatives. I can't find any Isuzu's or Prado's here, but there are plenty of pajero's. There are enough pathfinders as well, but they either have 200k+ miles on them or are outside of my budget. It seems like an american SUV(either the WJ or 2nd gen explorer) would actually be the cheaper option, because the older models are more popular here. But I'll keep an eye out on the models you mentioned, maybe something will come up. Any reason why you think they're a better pick for me?

I'm in uni, but buying a 5k car won't make me broke, even if we take the horrible mileage and possible repairs into account. Don't worry about me.

Thanks, duly noted.

The Pajero II in particular is just a stupendously overbuilt beast of a 4wd. One step short of an 80 series Land Cruiser IMO. My friend here in the US has had really good luck with is, that he bought for $1000 as a desert beater, has put minimal money into some basic maintenance, and it's just taken him and all his belongings across the entire country to the Carolinas.

Really sturdy frames, very big rear axles, hardy suspension, strong and long lived transmissions (Aisin) and t-cases. Engines I'd rate as better than average in reliability, although they like to leak and burn oil as the miles climb (speaking of gas V6). I do wonder what getting parts in your country might be like for one, I have no idea about your particular market. In the US Mitsu V6 motors were really common so general tune up parts are easy to find and cheap. Most other stuff like suspension isn't bad either, albeit not as cheap as domestics and less support that Toyota.

where do you live?

Another question user, what sort of skills/resources do you have onhand for maintaining an old SUV? I should warn you than an SUV has many more moving parts/components than your everyday FWD econo-car: front and rear diff with 2 sets of axles, a transfer case, two driveshafts. All need fluid changes and/or greasing. Depending on the model, the t-case and hubs/axles might have electric/pneumatic actuators that can and will break or need tinkering with.

>The Pajero II
Thanks man, I didn't even know this car existed before I made this thread. I'll definitely be on the lookout for it. Have you got any experience with the 3rd gen Pajero's? They are within my budget as well.
I'm wondering about the parts myself, I'm driving a volkswagen polo right now. They're really common here, so I never really had to deal with expensive parts.
The Netherlands
I'll be honest, I've got no experience maintaining an older car. As I said my DD is a volkswagen polo and there hasn't really been a need for heavy maintenance so far. But I mean I've got to learn somehow. I'm aware that certain skill is required, but I'd like to think that in time I would be able to learn said skill. It can't be that hard, right? And I've got the time.

Avoid the WJ Grand Cherokee at all costs. I have no input on the ZJ but I'd assume they're just as bad on gas as the WJ, possibly without the ultra cheap interior plastics and secondary mechanical issues.

3rd gen Exploders are complete trash
2nd gen Exploders have a lot of electrical issues and have cramped, uncomfortable seats even for someone under 6' and under 200lbs.

XJ Cherokees are similarly uncomfortable but also have terrible suspension geometry that makes them death traps on the highway.

CRVs are, well.. CRVs. Avoid them as well.

Any other options?

>Any other options?
Well, feel free to suggest some. Those are just the SUV's I liked the most from the sticky. If you got cool sleeper cars I haven't considered yet in this thread I'd like to hear them.

I'd recommend II over the III, the third gen is a nice on-road car, but the suspension is just not as overbuilt and more expensive to work on (price out a pair of front lower control arms to see what I mean). Also the 5spd autos used on many IIIs are rather picky to fluid type and many have been messed up by people using the wrong non-Mitsu ATF. Also IIIs can have LSD rear ends, which likewise need Mitsubishi's unicorn tear rear fluid with LSD additive. So for a newbie 4wd owner on a limited budget, the II's simple solid rear axle and body on frame construction is the way to go.

In regards to learning all the ins and outs of an old 4wd, as long as you're willing to learn and spend at least a bit of money on tools and have a place to wrench, I'm sure you could figure it out.

Here's a neat comparison of a Pajero II with and without a rear diff lock doing some offroading:
youtu.be/LhKf8EpQBEw?t=1745

I have a 2005 explorer, it's been dead reliable at 140,000 miles. Needed a new rear axle shaft at 100k, a turn signal flasher (Did that myself) and maintenance stuff. 4x4 works great.

I have an 89 XJ and I have never seen anything more true then this. The seats are awesome until you do some off reading, they left my ribs bruised. And I get the death wobble at about 55 mph but it clears up after 55

Tahoe/Yukon/Fullsize Blazer and Suburban 1500 are fantastic, save for the rear axle and transmission. Suburban 2500 takes care of those but they're not easy to find in all areas.

Fullsize Broncos are pretty good but working on them can be a pain in the dick, especially in contrast to the GM options. A lot of stuff just wasn't designed to come apart easily.

4Runners are decent on interior space considering their size, but they often price themselves out of the equation. They're reliable, but not significantly more than most options and they aren't the MOST reliable under equal conditions either. Definitely not enough to justify spending more than a few hundred extra vs a competitor.

Montero could be an option, I've never been in one and have no experience with them so no input for you there.

There's the S10 based GM SUVs, but at that point you can often get a fullsize with a better drivetrain for a little more if not the same price, so I personally don't see much point in buying one unless it's significantly underpriced. The 90s "fullsize" GMs were closer to midsize in overall dimensions so there's not much of a size difference.

Durangos are.. okay I suppose. Not great but not terrible either. I'd probably prefer one over a 2nd or 3rd gen Explorer.

I had a Mazda Tribute ES V6. Had a 3.0 Curated, 4WD, power seats, leather, it was nice. Paid just over $2000 and it had under 100,000 miles when I bought it.

get a panda or some shit. nothing american.

I mean Duratec, not curated. Autocorrect.

>They're reliable, but not significantly more than most options and they aren't the MOST reliable under equal conditions either. Definitely not enough to justify spending more than a few hundred extra vs a competitor.

I'd argue the market has spoken loud and clear on what's less troublesome in long term ownership. I agree that for handy DIYers that a domestic here in the States can be kept running in good repair at a low cost in terms of parts. But as far as how the vehicle holds up as the sum of its parts and taking into account all accessories (ancillary engine components, interior stuff, trim, as well as major things like transmissions) I'd say there's a reason for the big gap in retained value. Now, it totally might not be worth it to many, but I'm just emphasizing that the difference didn't turn up out of the blue.

IMO the pajero II strikes the best balance if they are common in OP's locale: Build quality close to the 'yota and well above the mid 90s US domestics, durability/ruggedness exceeding that of a 4Runner, and without the Toyota-tax.

The correlation isn't even close to what most people make it out to be and the little actual correlation there is can easily be explained by a difference in usage and maintenance.

I'd say if you were to buy a 90s 4Runner and 90s Tahoe at random without seeing either one, the 4Runner would be more likely to have been taken care of thus far and be more reliable over the next year or two as a result.

However if you had bought both of them new off the lot, used them the same way, drove them the same way, for the same number of miles, and maintained them the same way, I'd wager they'd be nearly identical in terms of reliability and condition.

The price difference should reflect the condition far more than the model, but it doesn't.

>Tahoe/Yukon/Fullsize Blazer and Suburban 1500 are fantastic
Damn I totally forgot about those. I've heard about the good quality of those before. I've done some searching and it seems that the blazer is the only one here that people are willing to sell. This might be a very good option for me. Thank you. As for the other options in your post, I can't really find those. It seems like they simply don't exist here.
This seems like a fairly good option as well. Plenty of those here and for a good price.

>IMO the pajero II strikes the best balance if they are common in OP's locale
They are.

Can anybody else recommend Blazers or the mazda tribute? Right now the most viable option seems to be the Pajero II followed by the Mazda tribute, 2nd gen explorer and the Chevrolet Blazer.
II it is.

I don't know man, all these people ITT sort of scared me off.

Tahoe would for sure need the 4L60E rebuilt by now, probably a fuel pump too. And interior/exterior trim/power accessories would be worse for the wear, and in general just a bunch of squeaks and rattles (doesn't affect reliability). I agree that maintenance makes a huge difference and you're right that GMs end up in the hands of negligent 3rd/4th/5th owners more frequently than Toyotas that people seem to hang onto for longer and take care of.

> the little actual correlation there is can easily be explained by a difference in usage and maintenance.

I agree that many people oversell the difference in Toyota vs others, but you are most certainly going disproportionately in the other direction.

Almost forgot lower intake manifold gaskets, and 4wd actuator issues if its the push-button system.

Early model tributes with the automatic have a totally shitty Ford CD4E transmission. Also very rust prone in places where they salt the roads.

My original (1997, 190k mile) fuel pump got weak to the point it needed to be replaced for reliable starting. Other than that, mine's needed a starter and an idler pulley, and the stock head unit stopped playing CDs while the previous owner still had it.

Interior plastics are in great shape and there was no squeaking or rattling until I put the Escalade console in, and that's only because it's not bolted down.

I think maybe the damage done by those abusive 3rd/4th/5th owners has convinced you that the stuff falls apart on it's own. The only thing you have to worry about with interior plastics is the rear fold down cupholder on the 99/00 Escalade and Denali.

2004 V8 Explorer w/200k miles. Confirmed for just replacing the ball joints. Wheel bearings will be soon. Transmission is OK but bangs into reverse. It's a comfy for a DD, but I think for any off-roading I would prefer a 95-01. Maybe that's because the 99 I test drove reminded me of my DD Ranger. I bought the 04 to pull a camper and the 99 had the 4.0, so I bought the 04 because of the 4.6 and the 3rd row seats.

>Can anybody else recommend Blazers or the mazda tribute? Right now the most viable option seems to be the Pajero II followed by the Mazda tribute, 2nd gen explorer and the Chevrolet Blazer.

The Mazda Tribute is a Ford Escape and really doesn't compare to a full-size Blazer. For a DD I'd take the Tribute on MPG alone, and S-10 Blazers are shit compared to 2G or even 3G Explorers

>Bought a 1/4 ton SUV with specific intention of towing

Those are the worst years for explorers 99-05 unless you get it in the v8

>S-10 Blazers are shit compared to 2G or even 3G Explorers

Then why are there so many S10 trucks and blazers still on the roads? I can't remember the last time I've seen a 2G or 3G explorer. Yeah S10's are shitty but even they can outlive a Ford. The 4.3 is a God if maintained properly.

Wut? I see 5 Explorers to every S10 Blazer. The early ones may live but after they get a taste of the Dethcool the 4.3 dies the same LIM and head gasket death of the rest of the GM V6s. Not to mention it had to have to have a balance shaft so it didn't make the Iron Duke look silky smooth. At least you can get a 4.3 at the junkyard from something that had the 4L60 go tits up in it.

>Then why are there so many S10 trucks and blazers still on the roads

are you fucking insane man? for every s10 there is at least 10 rangers/2nd gen explorers out there. those this are everywhere

bump