YOU GET SHOT FOR MAKING A JOKE ABOUT THE LEADER (even though Stalin died in the 50's and the Enemy of the State policy...

>YOU GET SHOT FOR MAKING A JOKE ABOUT THE LEADER (even though Stalin died in the 50's and the Enemy of the State policy was abolished alongside with him)
>YOU STARVE TO DEATH (even though famines ended by the end of the 40's and food shortages ended by the mid 50's and did not return until the oil price collapse in the late 80's)
>IT COLLAPSED BECAUSE COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK (clearly the war in Afghanistan, constant military spending against western imperialist ambitions and aforementioned oil price plummeting had nothing to do with it)
>ALL FACTS PRESENTED BY SOVIET OFFICIALS ARE COMMIE LIES (but these western facts in which Stalin killed over 80 million in a country of 140 million are totally true!)
>MODERN RUSSIA IS BETTER NOW THAN IT WAS BACK WHEN IT WAS THE SOVIET UNION (enjoy your mafia oligarchs and Putin, Russia and the rest of the world!)
Uh, explain yourself Veeky Forums?

[COLAPSE]

Centralization. Which is a shame, because Marx' identification and analysis of the inherent instability of capitalism is one of the best analyses on any system ever. It's just sad that he made up absolutely retarded solutions for it

>stalin dindu nuffin
>stalin's propaganda said stalin's a good boy, that settles it
You want me to write an essay on Veeky Forums to prove this stupid opinion wrong? Look it up on the internet.

[COLAPSES INTERNALLY]

Stalin dindu dindu nuffin but he wasn't the genocidal uber-Hitler the west loves to make him out to be.

>:-D tru gomunism has neva bein tried yu faget :-DDD

what about the famines during the collectivization of agriculture when the USSR continued to export wheat?

Stalin did more good than bad.

there are more important things to be discussed than this bait thread.

leftist scumbags are as rabid as poltards

Tell that east europe.

The worst Soviet history meme is the misconception that communism means statist Marxist-Leninism rather than a stateless society with no class distinction

gr8 b8 comrade

>LOOK AT ME, ALL THE BAD THINGS ABOUT THE USSR WHERE FALSE
>LOOK HURR DUURR SOVIETS DINDU NUFFIN
>IT WAS PARADISE ON EARTH, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT LIVED IN IT AND CAN ATTEST TO HOW BAD IT WAS WHERE JUST EBIL CAPITALIST PIGS

>I'M A RETARD DUUUUURRRR
>LOOK! PAY ATTENTION TO ME! I'M CONTRARIAN! P-PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO ME!

Fuck off. I know older people who came from the USSR only a year after the collapse, it was a fucking shithole. Go to /leftypol/ if you want a contrarian circle jerk

>stateless society
>we need to forcefully redistribute wealth and revamp the whole system and implement central planning to be a stateless society
>this idea is so good, yet somehow, the workers haven't come together and started forming companies where they own the means to production en masse

Without Stalin it would be East Germany

Nigga's never heard of a co-op

>industrialize an agrarian shithole
>prevent it from turning into White India

>be remembered for a bunch of killings and fatal decisions that weren't even your doing

smfh @ western capitalist piggus

Nigga's never thought about people not wanting to co-operate.

>I know older people who came from the USSR only a year after the collapse, it was a fucking shithole
Balts and Ukrainians, correct?

The latter ones are the Jews of the slav world.

No. Orthodox Russians.
Though one of my friends moved here from eastern Ukraine(Speaks Russian though) he was born a year after the collapse however.

>baiting this hard

sad, really

USA also had a terrible war and an unusual amount of money spent on thwarting the opposition, but never came close to collapsing. Why's that? Surely the price of oil alone wasn't a tipping point for the USSR.

Yes, I'll tell that.

I'll tell that to Poles who don't have to deal with Banderites genociding their people and Germans wanting to join areas which are inhabited by German minority to Germany again.

I'll tell that to Slovaks, Romanians and Bulgarians who don't have Hungarians in the borderline regions doing the same.

And to Czechs who experienced this exact thing back in 1938.

And Eastern Europeans as a whole that their land wasn't taken by German colonists and that they weren't turned into 2nd class citizens.

Yes fucking Stalin man, what a fucking asshole.

Also tell that to Yugos, who didn't have Stalin doing his job there and see how it turned out in the 90's.

When you go ahead and occupy the same land after liberating them, its not really liberation.

America is't run by retarded ruskies whose economy relies primarily on oil money.

Tito's mistake was that he wasn't as ruthless as Stalin.

Had he killed all the nationalists and their relatives and erased all historical national heroes Yugoslavia would still exist to this day.

Okay so they exist now quit whining and join one

:^)

...

Most retarded thing people do on Veeky Forums
>If X didnt do Y then X would have won/not failed
No

But many people do? My uncle literally works for a non-profit communal grocery store in Philadelphia

Wonderful for him then! But what about the people who dont want to work for non-profit organizations? ( Most people)

I would never do that, neither would i voluntarily give away my wealth to people who feel like they deserve it simply for existing.

The big problem for the USSR was that it couldn't keep up with the West's military. Their massive expenditure undermined the socialist system by diverting funds away from the people's needs. In addition, the Cold War became such a focus of the Soviet government (particularly after Stalin) that building communism became a second or third priority.

America also benefited from better economic relationships with the third world. Because the USSR had fewer allies, it had fewer ways to acquire cheap oil and ore.

When the USSR could no longer serve as a competent rival to the US, bipolarity collapsed. Once bipolarity collapsed, a massive rise in external and internal pressures brought down the USSR.

What kind of work do you do?

Just FYI, non-profit doesn't mean your salaries would be lower.

Non-profit companies like NPR generally pay more to all workers except upper management, because wages aren't being sliced to make a profit for the shareholders or CEO.

In a for-profit company, bosses nearly always cut down their workers' wages to ensure that they make more money.

I'm an electrician. People voluntarily pay me to help them. Not willing to do it for free, and never will give away any of my money

[THIS THREAD COLAPSE AGAIN]

And also, isnt that wonderful for you. But i prefer to work in a for-profit company. What i'm getting at is that you cant convince people to voluntarily give away their income.

No one is entitled to my money, which i make through a voluntary deal with my company and customers

>Be Communist
>Collapse

>be russian
>despotism

If you're an independent worker you're already non-profit, my dude.

Non-profit means not extracting surplus value from labor.

Why would you want to work for a boss who takes 10% of your wages for himself? Are you a cuck?

If you are independent or work for a non-profit co-op, you get to keep the fruits of your labor.

I work for a company. Not an independent electrician. I couldn't handle the cost of all the equipment, transport and all that other jazz alone.

I work with other people ofc. The government takes most of my money, not the people who i work for. The difference is that one is voluntary and the other is not

You wouldn't rather keep all your earnings, as opposed to giving most to your boss and your government?

That's the whole point, i get to choose to get all the plusses and advantages of working in a company, in exchange for my income being skimmed off so that the people who runn the company make alot of money.

Or i can choose not too. BUT with government it's not a choice, but i dont see why what i do voluntary should concern you at all, it's my choice.

Unless you want to take away that choice?

What would you lose by working in a democratic co-op rather than for a capitalist?

You'd get the benefit of not having to pay for your own tools, without surrendering your money to your boss.

Well why dont you go ahead and start a democratic co-op business then?

I'm not arguing for which is more effective, i really dont care unless they start outcompeting everyone and they start popping up around me. Maybe then i'd join one, who the hell knows.

I'm asking if you want to take away my choice to voluntarily work in a capitalist company? Because if not, why do you give a shit?

>being communist
>Keeping 100% of your earnings
I'd say "pick one" but da gubment wouldn't allow #2.

>i get to choose to get all the plusses and advantages of working in a company, in exchange for my income being skimmed off so that the people who runn the company make alot of money.
You are retarded.

You have just an illusion of choice.

I'll tell you why. Let's say your boss wants you to stay for an hour longer or get lost. If you get fired, his productivity drops by some %. His department/company earns less money until they find a replacement for you. Not a big loss most of the times.

Now try to spin it in the other way - try to tell your boss that you will be late every day by 15 minutes because you need to sleep better. You offer working overtime to make up for it. If he doesn't agree you tell him - haha fucker, fire me! Come on!

If he fires you, you'll lose 100% of your income until you find another job. That's a huge loss for you.

That's all the choice wagecucks have.


And besides - message to commies. Kill yourself.

>live in a liberal country
>because of red scare social democracy is demonized as a gateway to socialism and communism
>pay money to get fixed for breaking your arm
>try to ask for leave because your arm is broken,get fired and don't get payed reparations for being fired
>try to tell people about it but get branded as a marxist and a communist
>ask unions for help non-socialist(yellow) unions don't give a fuck
>lose your house because you couldn't pay the rent
>"AT LEAST IM NOT LIVIN' IN A GOMMIE SHITHOLE"

>being THIS delusional.

Either you are a neck beard parasite in your moms basement using her internet. Or you are a good little capitalist with a job and you pay for internet.

Which is it?

There is always going to be a government, and paying the boss compensates for his property and the organization he build/owns.

It might surprise you but sometimes its more efficient to work with a middle man if he has the stuff you need

>Your choice isnt a real choice because it has consequences

Are you mentally retarded? Are you shomehow surprised that if you voluntary engage in a contract that is so important it makes up all your earnings, and then proceed to break it. The other partner ends the contract?

Jesus fuck. Grow up lad. Welcome to the real world

How is that bad?

Next time don't break your arm faggot.

communism didnt collapse because it was communism

it collapsed because it was run by incompetent uneducated bastards - this was largely due to war and revolution, and the militaey cadres that took over immediately after - oh dimitry you prooved yourself in that charge against the white guard, here you get to run this factory, oh zdravko, you shoved yourself as a hero aginst those panzer, here, you get to be commisar of agriculture for this whole region...

also the type of totalitarism into which it all devolved favoured the usefull idiots and the pshichopaths among the party cadre

the one sure way for a true faithful communist to get killed in that system was to actualy care and do something, to actualy be capable of something and to actualy believe things can be done for the better of the people, to actualy believe in communism and try to do something about it, those kinds of people got ended by the incompetent corrupt shits that floated to the top of the party

in other words no one killed more true communists than the soviet party, no one fucked up more true communist refiorms and worker managment plans than the yugoslav party, no one stifled more do-it-yourself communist economic development than the cuban party, and so on...

thats what fucked communism

Didn't Stalin forbid the German communist party from allying with the Social Democrats to stop the Nazis=

you mean

>Without Hitler it would be East Germany

Was Stalin a nationalist?

There doesn't have to be a government that you call your boss. Or any other bosses for that matter.

Fuck the marxism-leninism tho.

> FACTS PRESENTED BY SOVIET OFFICIALS
The lie was so deep into nomenclature that people like Brezhnev wouldn't even bother to look up for numbers, user.

trotcky ahd the idea of a permanent international revolution, meaning every commie party in every corner of the world gets support and even military help if possible, which was what the first couple of internacionale were about basicaly

people didnt like this cause it meant constant war and accused trotrcky of being ''bonapartist'' as in, he wants to conquer the world (this was before 39 so they only had napoleon to default on)

stalin on the other hand had the idea of ''socialism in one country'' which translated into a complete negation of the internacinale, and basicaly forbiding any foreign comunist party from actualy doing anything unless moscow explicitly orders it so

so in the spanish civil war when spanish communists and anarchists tried to do something, the everpresent soviests would find a way to sabotage them, even to the point of ratting them out to the francists

this went on all trough the cold war, only shit that was approwed by moscow went, othervise it was ''counterrevolutionary''

There's no government under full communism

(dubs x2)
(dubs x2)
Is this the birth of an epic new meme?

>Your choice isnt a real choice because it has consequences
That's not what they said. Their argument is that it isn't a "real choice" because the other party has much more power than they do.

Genocide is wrong, user

you need to go back

i'm pretty sure OP is a russian right wing shitposter

How's he a right wing?

I'd say so, although I'm not sure if he believed Soviet culture was actually greater than French or Japanese culture

Veeky Forums has a far greater share of Marxists than Reddit does

Sort of. During his reign begins a sort of a patriotic rise, for example, the state politics towards church was softened, the immigrants have started to come back, the movie makers are going for older historical themes (like "Alexander Nevsky").

Most of the self-proclaimed marxists just admire the common definition and never tried to read some theory. And that's just sad

What makes you say so? I've read the Manifesto obviously, as well as the German Ideologies and the Theses on Feuerbach. In addition, I've read some Gramsci, Lenin, Luxemburg, and lots of the meme Slovene.

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the majority. I've seen a lot of people claiming to be communists, yet many of them couldn't explain any details on their beliefs. They join their partied and movements, yet nobody does gives them a proper theoretical education.

>Georgian
>a Russian nationalist

>american schoolkids defending the Soviet Union
every time

>yeah man liberal capitalism is absolutely the only possible societal arrangement no I've never read marx but capitalism is infallible trust me on this

>no mom, you don't understand, we're- [collapses]

>keeping all your pay

ok. But you're not allowed to use the roads your government builds and maintains, the school system, etc.

You're retarded.

You'll probably reply that government is Inefficient or some shit. I've worked extensively in both public and private sectors. Their level of inefficiency is about equal.

Anybody who opposes the idea of full communism is either stupid or evil

Communism is so difficult to implement that there are many legitimate reasons to be wary of a communist transition

Why are there no mass movements of people from capitalist nations to communist nations? Fuck off to Best Korea

>LOL your mom's basement. You got WREKT!!! Look guys, I made funny meme argument xD

Not even him, but I have worked for the department of defense and the level of bullshit was unreal.

>lareesha quadranaeasheea hired and works for 40 years despite pretty much not speaking english and reading at a 4th grade level
>that asshole paper pusher that is firmly convinced his shit smells like roses retires from the military and then runs an entire section of the VA
>civilians who stay while elected officials go, basically being the secret government behind the throne
>billions of dollars hemmoraged over retarded shit and buddy buddy connections
>given a briefing over not raping people every month because actually doing something about it costs "too much money"
>the only volunteers of any decent quality (military) you basically use up like toilet paper and use them as a voluntold force to prove all your shitty social theories you wrote about in gender studies while your rich northeastern mummy and daddy paid you 100,000 a year

And on and on. Fuck the government

Im ready for my robot overlords. We are too stupid for humans to run the world.

When will you autistic sovietboo larping neckbeards go back to your containment board?

>80+ posts
>no one explicitly refuting ANY of the OP's points
:^)

Go fuck yourself, there were living Hungarians, Germans and other minorities in those territories since like a 1000 years.
And they couldn't even deport most of them.
Fuck Benes, fuck Ceausescu, fuck Stalin, fuck communism, socialism and marxism. I bet you never lived either under socialism, or in a post-socialist, post-Warsaw-Pact country.

>Western spoiled white kids praising the Soviet union
They'd shoot you first. Privileged little fucks

The Soviet Union was the best thing to happen to Russia but the worst thing to happen to Europe.

That's not Nazi Germany

The USSR and Nazi Germany were the best things to happen to these countries but the worst things to happen to Europe.

This is true for monarchists and fascists too

>implying there are societies other than the capitalist West that tolerate NEETs

They're not. You wont find many rich white spoiled kids being fascist or Monarchist.

Mostly met poor white kids who are fascists, not rich ones. As being a commie/socialist is popular among hipster teens/Millennials

>Implying rich white western spoiled kids arent almost all leftists.

You can't be NEET under soviets. Job will be just assigned to you by force.

>"""""""""western imperialist ambitions"""""""""

80% of the territories outside of europe are uninhabit deserts and tundras

>even though famines ended by the end of the 40's and food shortages ended by the mid 50's and did not return until the oil price collapse in the late 80's)
Wow, a whole 30 years without famine, impressive. Stopped reading there.

...