What are those high-end finance jobs like?

>markets
What do you mean by markets exactly? What kind of finance positions are involved in the market?

Also, what would you recommend I get my master's in? I'm going to be studying finance as an undergrad.

No offense but just check US News though its a bit shitty now its a good baseline. Probably UT>TT>Baylor

Cause you make alot more money for the firm. I sat on a STIR trading desk at one of the big investment banks.

The head of their desk (who was super young, made head of desk in late 20s/early 30s) made $90m for the firm in one year during the crisis, the whole rates team made $700m.

Like financial markets dude, bond markets, forex, interest rates, equity options, ABS, CDS, anything you can think of.

Any financial product that exists in the world today is driven by investment banks, they make this whole world work.

Dont do finance as an undergrad, do STEM.
Then do a masters in STEM too.

Alot of HFs dont hire finance ugrads, Renaissance Technologies (best HF in the world on par with Soroses Quantum Fund, 30% annualised returns possst fees for decades) has specifically said they dont hire economists or finance people.

pretty hellish if you've read any book ever written on them.

He probably means sales and trading, debt capital markets, equity capital markets etc.

who do they hire? what do you mean master in stem? why would a bank hire an engineer?

Finishing up an Aerospace bachelor's with a minor in CS. Have internship and research experience in data modeling. GPA is mediocre tho and my school is a decent US public school. What would my chances be of getting into the finance market?

Well the guy that founded it is a mathematician that used to work as a code breaker for the US goverment and has mathematical medals.

He decided to pass it on to the two brothers that used to run IBMs voice AI research project.

Banks like STEM people (like engineers) because markets side of finance ranges from high school level math to literal cutting edge pushing the envelope of human mathematical knowledge.

What type of degrees would be helpful to banks then?

Also thinking I might try and do a masters in data science. Is this a meme degree, or would that be attractive to banks?

Im gonna take a detour here and say study what you actually like (within reason) and if you want finance youll get it.

Ive seen division heads with Masters in Medieval history.

Finance doesnt lend itself to the mentality alot of other careers of 'study this thing you hate to make alot of money' like engineering or law or medicine, which is weird and counter intuitive I know.

A PhD in Math wont get you into a bank or make alot of money if you dont love and live and breath finance, youll make 'good' money (low $X00,000 per year) but you'll never make real money.

Soros studied philosophy, Kovner of Caxton Associates used to drive a cab, I worked with traders that hadn't gone to universsity at all (although thats almost completely died out now).

Low, you got a good degree but low GPA and non-target uni + no internships in finance.

Gonna have to make it up with genuine enthusiasm and passion about finance, hunger still goes for alot in this business.

>HF
Hudge fund?

Worth a shot I guess, how drastically to my chances improve if I get a STEM masters at a European uni like ETH?

Quite a fair bit, ETH is well recognised, but in Europe. Doesn't even have to be STEM, can be a softer transitionary subject.

If you wanna break into US you'd be better with a Masters from a top US school.

yep

forbes.com/hedge-fund-managers/

This is what I mean about about monopoly money. Thats how much they made IN ONE YEAR.

There is, an there has never been, any other industry in this world that will get you so rich in such a short amount of time at this probability of success.

Financially and gradewise my chances in the US are pretty low. Have EU citizenship so a EU masters is much more in reach. Might also just try to get into software development for 1-2 years in the US and try to do a masters after that.

>what is billionaire tech ceo

>500,000,000 on 2 paintings

Not saying he's obligated, but wouldn't it be cool to have everyone working toward advancing humanity into the technologically absurd as fast as possible?

Kinda embarrassing when people do shit like that. It's your money, doesn't belong to anyone else. But lol, man... Spend it on something worthwhile.

Maybe those paintings will be worth more in the future? It seems like a weird artisitic asset if that is the case.

>if you dont love and live and breath finance
Basically looking at financial websites?

Speaking of making money off tech, how much money did m00t make with Veeky Forums?

What? Analyst contractor? Starting salary something like 60-70k in europe in best paying banks like jpm or goldman

then it doubles + 100k annual bonus after about 3 years if you make it.

1/4 makes the first cut, for the rest it's over.

How many of those are there versus how many billionaires and centi-millionaires finance has made, go on do the numbers, I know the answer, I already have.

Its also a number of relative probabilities.

Hedgefunds pay better, the ladder is easier, the jobs are more fun. It's actually investing unlike "investment bank" jobs. They even receice application way less because most people do not know shit about investing they just go to school and then apply to the major banks.

No, like being able to talk intelligently to a PM about multiple asset markets globally, like having views where US 2s5s10s swap is going, what you think will happen with EUR/CZK and if playing a 1y ATMF put vs buying the 6mnth/1y fwd is a good or bad idea.
If vols on USD/CNH are fair given deval risks.

I mean being able to impress someone who does this for a living, not reguritate the half chewed crap some journo writes on a finance website, thats a given, you have to go above and beyond that.

Ken's crazy

Dude rented out the fucking Versailles Palace for his wedding.
No one has ever done that.

You hate that job anyway. Your father practically owns the company I don't know why you don't just quit

Also your money as a finance guy is much more liquid than your money as a tech billionaire CEO which is locked up in the shares of your company.

Crystallising that means potentially losing control of your company or crashing the share price. Paper billionaire is very different to liquid billionaire.

Elon Musk may be a billionaire but he's had liquidity issues in the past. Alot of IPO based billionaires do.

Probably not a lot. He wanted out and wanted to sell to a very specific person so he took whatever was offered.
>Ken's crazy
Obviously. I mean fucking look at him. Not to mention that he's divorced now.

>advancing humanity
Precisely the opposite of what (((they))) want.

First of all: ''In 1947, Soros immigrated to England and became a student at the London School of Economics''.

Second, how is getting a degree ''died out now''. I don't see a lawyer, doktor or engineer skipping the uni.

I think he was saying it used to be possible to get hired as a trader without a degree, now you have to have a degree

How do you find Hedge Fund jobs? Don't you need to be well connected? Could you go into more detail?

What degrees (e.g. BA/BS or graduate) and field of studies are required?

I realize that most of this is google-able (and I've been researching it), but it sounds as though you speak from experience or know someone who has gone this route.

Yeah that, also he went to the London School of Economics to study Philosophy

I graduated from LSE, its not all economics don.

>you sound like you speak from expirience
>that post

The dude doesnt even know the difference between volatility funds and volatility targetting funds.

How much of a chance do I have to get into IBD or capital markets if my shitty state uni only has alumni in corporate, government, private banking and shitty sales/wagecuck or risk management positions in major national banks?

Should I get an MBA or go to a private school for another degree?

I'm not American nor European btw

Where do you learn about such things?

It amazes me how moot managed not to make a good amount of money even with a popular app and website.

>The dude doesnt even know the difference between volatility funds and volatility targetting funds.
What is the difference?

good resources to learn finance? been watching shkreli's finance lessons... but i doubt that will cut it

you sound like you know your shit, unlike most 18 year old roleplayers (who probably get all their knowledge from mergers and inquisitions)

i truly find all this interesting. thanks a lot for your contributions to Veeky Forums

>How do you find Hedge Fund jobs? Don't you need to be well connected? Could you go into more detail?

Well, that's exactly the thing. Majority of hf companies are not known for the public, like in a complete dark. And many might prefer it that way. But hey, Everybody knows the banks tho.

>The dude

yo dude

Most of a hedge funds consist a handful of people. It's not a bulge bank with 50k employees and the global presence.

IBD?

Investment Banking Division.
He meant Mergers and Acquisitions.

Sales and Trading (aka markets) is a part of IBD too.

If you consider the hours you work you are paid a hourly wage less than a nurse. Even less if you factor in overtime hours.

This was my idea of them and I long considered them not even a viable option as a career path. Looks like I fell for the meme trap he layed. Regardless, I appreciate the replies.

>Wishful thinking: the post
You don't post "top 25 biggest earning Music stars" and then expect simple people with a music degree to make as much.

You will most likely have a wageslave shit job.

being head of a trading desk and making 5 mil is not 'Top 25 biggest earners'

I posted top 25 biggest earners in HFs and they make something more like 500 mil.

Thats the point, even making it avg in the industry is multiple millions.

There are alot of HFs out there, if you're good you will make it into one, if you're really good youll raise your own capital.

Actually M&A is a subset of IBD in most banks as IBD also includes DCM and ECM

The sales and trading side is usually called 'Global Markets' or similar hence why i called it generically markets

Hedge Funds are not THAT secretive, Citadel (Ken Griffins fund), AQR, Winton, Bridgewater, CQS, I could go on

All these places run grad schemes that hire straight out of university and also post jobs on their websites

Theres also hundreds of small places that may just be a website but theres enough big funds out there

Well Ive worked both buy side and sell side in markets and had my head in the game for atleast half a decade, but I'm still a complete noob.
Its a mixture of books, websites like you said, trading your own money. Mainly books though.

Its a slow process, you have to learn how to think like an investor.
The steps are kind of, understanding financial markets, then reading about succesful investors and how they think about investing, then a long process of trial and error in developing your own views that never really ends.

Vol targetting funds run an asset mixture where an asset classes weight is decided by its desired contribution to an overall risk profile.

e.g a bond equity mix where your weights are decided by having equal vol contributions from equities and bonds (means typically youll lever up on bond allocation as bonds are less volatile)

Vol funds are funds that actually trade volatility as an asset class (VIX futures and associated VIX ETFs, variance and dispersion swaps etc).

What do you think the best performers in 2017 will be?

I'm bullish on oil, corp bonds and property.
IMO higher inflation expectations will drive rotation into riskier assets with higher yield. But all could get instantly nixed by a single tweet from Trump.

>I'm bullish on oil

Short Mexican oil. Only good way to have a significant investment in a commodity this quarter.

>But all could get instantly nixed by a single tweet from Trump.

Oh yeah. Fucking madman drove boeing to hell

IBD analyst (M&A) here. It's a hellhole, but my total comp for my first year was $150,000 at age 23. Pic related is my bonus deposit after taxes.

It is a fucking hellhole

>99% of humanity has no idea how easily the real money is made

Alot of us know.

Why the fuck do you think bankers are called leeches and are hated by all da niggers?

What degree and qualifications did you Acquire to help you get the job?

Why short Mexican oil?

2nding
Having trouble getting any traction. I've sent in a couple dozen applications but no results.

The Job market is so competitive, get amazing grades and you need to work your ass off. I have a bachelors in Finance and I couldn't land a Finance related job other than being stock broker a AXA. People with MBA's are the ones getting the Entry level positions. at the legit companies

Whats the thoughts on investment opeations side of stuff? More back room stuff

This. In all honesty it's all just luck and who you know. The chances improve if you go to a better school, network a ton, and get great grades.

Anybody with a good work ethic can succeed as a junior banker - it's not challenging work, just demanding. Just understand how a cash flow statement works and be able to answer technical questions regarding this (google investment banking interview questions) and you'll do fine in a technical interview. They know you're clueless as an analyst - the bank basically teaches you everything.

But I'm small town small school with no network. How do I even get the interview

Nurses make 200k a year doing 50 hours a week?

Establish a good LinkedIn profile, message employers etc.. You really want to drive views to your profile.

Any links on how to do that? I really hate networking so I'm not good at it

threads on wallstreetoasis cover this topic in great detail. Don't know the success rate though.

Being Jewish helps. They have deep networks.

Every thread I've ever seen tehre is just like, "Bro, just cold call random people at banks, it totally works!" without any kind of follow up on who to contact or what to say when you do.

Well fuck I don't know start your life over and go to Harvard/Princeton/Wharton and get a shitty job in finance working 25 hours a day for a dickhead kike of a boss making less than minimum wage.

Then hope to christ you're one in a thousand analysts that get an offer to go into a shitty PE firm or a hedge fund before your 2 year contract expires otherwise you'll be put on the next plane to Idaho where you'll be making $50k a year at some wagecuck job with a fat wife, 3 kids, and a mortgage.

Shit man figure it out I dont know. sharks

Yeah see that's not helpful and is basically what I'm talking about. They say something abstract and never offer any details. If I knew who to contact or what to say I wouldn't be asking for help in the first place.

That's because 90% of them are parroting things they've read instead of offering advice based on experience.

The successful analysts are spending their time with 17 year olds on wall street oasis lmao.

Kind of what I always figured. I feel like I'm going to be stuck working retail the rest of my life at this point. I couldn't even get a damn internship.

Best if you live in a densely populated area close to a city, best example is somewhere near NYC. But honestly just go into engineering, mathematics, or computer science. You can go into Finance related career with those majors, and you will guaranteed be much more intelligent than any business grad.

Look man bend don't break, get a decent office job. I majored in Finance now I work at a marketing research company. It's nothing to brag about because my job is a joke but it's a foot in the door of a good company. I always wanted to be a investment analyst, instead they have "Industry Analysts" at my company.

I might go into mathematics if that can help my career. Or would engineering be a more safer option?

You definitely know what you're talking about. I archived your advice. What specific resources would you recommend to a college student?

Big company? Operations is a dead end job.

Small company? Go for it. You'lI sit together with the dealmakers. Show that you're good and they will help you make a steady transition into their role.

Not a chance. On JPM's website it literally says 3.2+ from a LEADING university. Unless your going to Berk your state school isnt shit and wont get you into IBD. However if you get top grades and go for your MBA at a top school you can def break in, if you network.

come on man he literally just told you to use linkedin. Its almost a given that bankers will have a Linkedin due to the nature of their role and if you cant figure out how to contact them dont bother trying to go into IBD.

Very rarely will a finance major pull 200k. Senior analysts don't even make that where I work and we are a 1.8B AUM firm. Even new grad analysts at big firms only make 60-80k plus bonus which rarely brings them to 150k tops but 90-110k all in is the normal. At least here in NYC. And 60 hours? Keep dreaming alice.

The 'reflation/Trump' trade as its called on the street has already been playing since the election, alot of people would argue its overplayed if anything.
Youve seen equity sector rotations, 3m LIBOR at 100bps, 10s have sold off deccently.
I think anyone thinking this is behind the curve, whats the next steps ?

Sending a couple of apps wont cut it, one year when I was trying to get my foot through the door I cold emailed 150 HFs, got about 10 tractable replies.

I interviewed with most big investment banks multiple times before I even got an internship.

As I've said before, you've got to love the game, following of which.

I personally would never do IBD even if you put a gun to my head. If you truly like finance you have a better chance to make more money for less work on the markets side, IF you're good (which you will become if you truly love it, if you just see finance as 'a job to make alot of money' you will never make it big). Worst case atleast go DCM or something.

If you're making 90-110k at entry level idk where you're working where this doesnt ramp up to over 200k easily after a few years.
Senior analysts in HFs (which is usually the title of anyone other than PM) can pull in multiple millions because theyre the same level as PM but just dont pull the trigger.

I personally have never seen someone from the entry level get an offer anywhere remotely decent via LinkedIn.
If you're senior it helps because head hunters will look for you having a role to fill, in the entry level its best case useful for being able to send a cold LinkedIn message, but at the same time its a given you have to have one.

>Also everyone whos anyone in IBD jumps over to an HF in a few years
>tfw senior positions at IBDs are going begging because VPs and MDs are inching ever closer to retirement and all the young talent goes there for the CV cred and disappears back through the revolving door

Because I want to fit in.

Because I want to fit in.

All of these opinions aren't facts.

>use linkedin
Except LinkedIn is garbage design and doesn't seem to do anything. "Using" linkedin to me would just be logging on and seeing, nothing. What do people mean when they say, use linkedin? I don't know anyone in industry because I went to a meme, small, stem school with nothing but foreign nationals that all go back to china once they graduate. I don't know how to 'use' linkedin. That's why I'm asking for help.

>I personally have never seen someone from the entry level get an offer anywhere remotely decent via LinkedIn.
>If you're senior it helps because head hunters will look for you having a role to fill, in the entry level its best case useful for being able to send a cold LinkedIn message, but at the same time its a given you have to have one.
So what can I do to get my foot in the door then? Do firms even look at their online applications that I'm submitting or am I wasting my time?

Literally just search Goldman Sachs and it will show people who work there.

IB in my country. Not in America

>all the internship programs are on America!

Only for two bulge bracket banks. I want to go into boutique

lol