Read every single one of his books religiously when I was 12 years old

Some guy I met at a gym sent me a book of his in the hopes that I would go under his wing and let him "mentor" me. It was some bullshit about network marketing which sounded like MLM and when you look it up, it's not even legal in some countries.

it's not bias user, i'm saying i don't see the real business success there. all i see is a crook that fleeced a hell of a lot of people and gained some capital but ran out of steam.

That doesn't address my point.
He is not responsible for what you do with the info.
Anyone can read books then put them on the shelf and take action.

The sad thing is, over 80% of readers won't even read past the first chapter of any book, unless they are engaged in it. Of the remaining 20%, 10-15% will take some action or guidance, but not all. Maybe 5-10% will follow all the principles, but of course, their results may vary, as with any advice or guidance. How many graduates in a college course got into the job or the industry they wanted?
How many parlayed that into a career or self-Employment?
many ditched that path altogether within a year or two of graduating?

Here's simple advice - want to stay trim and healthier than 80% of people?
OK, avoid all or at least minimal intake of illegal drugs, sugar and alcohol intake.
Also don’t live in a city and avoid inflammation, or stressful environments/people/tasks too often.
Now how many people know this advice, versus how many take it?

There's a behaviour gap between what we should do, and what we do.
And people can be very smart, rational or controlled in one domain and irrational and erratic at another. They have their own weaknesses.
You could follow all the advice, but it doesn't tell you to not rape, murder, steal, embezzle, defraud, etc or do coke every day or neglect your wife, or insult your employees or pay them too little, etc

Yet 'successful' people are doing those things right now, and may hit a peak early before their irrational behaviour hits a tipping point.

That you have ethics is implied in the book.
But it isn't tacit approval to do whatever you want or that his advice is the final word.
He encourages further reading and to become financially literate, amongst other habits.
So I could follow his advice, arguably, and set up a pyramid scheme or evade take, get caught, etc
Is that his fault? Or mine?

you think he made $60-$80 million LARPing as a rich dude?

Veeky Forums might have a path to wealth after all....

>That doesn't address my point
of course it does.

If nobody follows his advice to success, his advice is objectively worthless.

beyond worthless since it costs money to read it.

i read somewhere his wealth is estimated to that, it's the upper cap possible i think personally it's less he probably has some badly over inflated assets.

i think it's no coincidence he still actively trying to rip people off with his franchise. partly he is expected to be there as the guru of the cult but partly he doesn't have as much liquid or money producing asset as he pretends to have.

The only good advice he gives is to work on building up assets, and his definition of an asset is something that generates cash flow. Your home doesn't count as an asset since once you live in it, you're paying every month to live in it, and you only make money after you sell it (at which point you will probably buy another house). Your car doesn't count as an asset since it continues to depreciate in value and is also a money sink.

>and his definition of an asset is something that generates cash flow
almost every asset generates cash flow be it positive or negative. aside from a few curiosities like bitcoin assets cost you to hold them.

you know it's really the worst thing kiyosaki did: he butchered the definition of asset and liability and then went on demonizing liability when liability is the foundation upon which business is built.

he is a fucking moron and he did a lot of harm.

>successful businessman
>uses comic sans

U dun goofed my friend

now this pic shows you how cashflow really works. kiyosakis meme magic how he butchered the traditional cash flow obfuscate a few important points.

both assets and liabilities generate expenses, but assets generate more income. in business your assets would be limited by your capital unless there was a way to balance them out with liabilities.

if you have a product or service that has more demand than you can meet, it would be really stupid to limit your growth to your capital gains. really fucking stupid. liability comes to the rescue tho and let's you achieve your market potential.

The second argument you made also doesn't scan.

People can get rich and successful, either knowing or not knowing the principles in his books, having read them or not, but will they remain successful?
Will they keep their wealth?
And does that mean the advice is flawed?
They may follow those principles unknowingly, and there are always outliers who succeed in spite of certain 'rules', creating their own 'survivorship bias' - I know millionaires who say get credit at all costs, and others who say always avoid debt or loans. Their perception or experience affects their views.

You also don't know their FULL life story until they are dead and buried!
They could be a millionaire next week, or dead, or bankrupt!

Will Smith was a millionaire as a musician early in life.
He lost all of it.
Then a TV star, then a movie star.
He was even more successful after reading Rich Dad, and has become one of the most bankable movie stars for a huge profit. He makes his kids read it too.

He was successful in spite of not reading those books, but he was still financially illiterate before he did.

Firstly, how many would be 'self-reporting' testimonials in your survey?
Do they really follow the principles laid out, or justify it to themselves and fool themselves?
Did they read it, but don’t want to admit it?

If someone tells you he read Kiyosaki's books, but never got anywhere, we don't know the rest of that story, are they gonna say they blew it on their crippling coke and gambling addiction? Or they would have been ten times as successful if they didn’t watch porn and gameshows for 6 hours a day? We can't know the effect of that.

Tl;dr - 'single-cause fallacy' - 'I read and took said advice, I am not rich, ergo Kiyosaki is a faggot amirite'

you are really hung up on these fallacies and biases did you just take some debate 101 or something? in the real world out there people know their fallacies and not afraid to use them. not using fallacies doesn't make your argument any more true or even valid than using them would make it false or invalid. so take a chill pill nigga!

>Will Smith
are we talking about the scientologist will smith? there is hardly any other more representative measure for human stupidity than being member of the church.
>He makes his kids read it too.
yeah his kid is not the sharpest tool in the shed either. in fact he is a fucking embarrassment for the entire human race.

No it doesn't.
I just gave you an example of how to be healthier than 80% of people on this planet,
Most people will never follow that short list of 3 or 4 things, will you?
You probably don't follow even one, statistically speaking.

If I told a few million people that advice, I doubt +2% would follow it. They're not following it now.

The World Health Organization has a recommended daily limit for sugar. Their audience is the entire world. Their reviews of studies have implicated sugar as responsible for millions of deaths, and the evidence is now overwhelming. It has drastically cut it's previous allowances in half, and now maintains that sugar should be eliminated wherever possible. Now that's pretty fucking straightforward advice.

How many are following this advice? I would bet it is less than 2%.

So, is their advice worthless?

Lol if your really think the basic principles in Rich Dad Poor Dad are bad.. you will never be wealthy.

This book changed my life when I read it at 16. I'm 26 and so far ahead of my peers it's ridiculous.

Hospital finance director here, MBA/CPA/CFP.

3 kids, married.

Twenty fucking six years old.

I owe it to this book sparking my interest in success, business and wealth.

Ask any questions you wish.

I also have several side businesses wife runs from essential oils to real estate.

Mindset is everything; sure alot of what he says is BS, but as with life, you take the information in, retain the good, discard the bad.

No, just that psychology is fundamental.
I didn't succeed without it.
Biases and fallacies are valid.
Your opinion is probably not.
Everybody has an opinion.
It doesn't make my argument any stronger, but pointing out others using them can help them understand my issue with it, of which there are many.
I could have chosen other angles, but I rarely talk to anyone who doesn't avoid the common fallacies and biases anymore. I've been trying to avoid making these fallacies for a few years now, so I prefer to talk to people who both don't use them, and also call me out on my usage of fallacies and biases.
Do you prefer talking to those who use them often?

Yes, that Will Smith.
I agree, he's not an academic or intellectual.
I'm sure he's aware of that weakness too.
And I disagree, most people cannot see their own bias, precisely because they are biased.
Somebody who is arrogant, will not see that they are arrogant, or necessarily accept that you see them as arrogant, because, well they are arrogant, so they think they are right anyway.

Will Smith enjoys entertaining people, he's creative and talented, arguably, and is a natural comedian and storyteller and he's friendly, positive.
So those strengths outweigh his weaknesses.

And yet, there he is, probably more successful than 99.9% of people, rich, famous, fit, charming, well groomed, humble, and welcome almost anywhere.

Maybe he got his kid to read it for that very reason.
Kiyosaki said he deliberately wrote it so it could be understood by a 9-year old.

Your results may vary.

>3 kids, married.
>Twenty fucking six years old.
You say that like it is a good thing.
Enjoy your divorce.

>Do you prefer talking to those who use them often?
i would avoid Veeky Forums like fire if i was user.

Lol been with my wife since freshman year of high school.

God I love how people think divorce is "normal" now

I am in the top 8% of wealth regardless of age, and top 1% for my age group.

I think you should look up statistics on divorce rates by wealth and education.

Lol... the plebeian mindset

Ha, was about to say the same thing!

This dude is surrounded by people who have divorced. It's his reality.... which ties to your thought on wealth, education, and marital success.

>Lol if your really think the basic principles in Rich Dad Poor Dad are bad..

they are outright wrong user, but of course i can't know what you mean by basic principles exactly. he is a snake oil salesman that makes a mess of economics and the terms used by economists.

a book motivating you is not the same as a book being explicitly helpful.

>Mindset is everything; sure alot of what he says is BS, but as with life, you take the information in, retain the good, discard the bad.
well i guess you should write a book about that user. he is full of bs. and there is some gold to find in that book but it would fit on a single page which makes the book a huge waste of time and a net garbage in my eyes.

Haha ya that's true, I only ever read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I stemmed away from him because it was so basic, but the wealth management logic and using companies to offset tax are sound. I guess I would say 80% shilling and 20% good logic... But at the same time... Sparking my interest and leading me to continued research were causation of this book.

-Hospital Guy

>Lol if your really think the basic principles in Rich Dad Poor Dad are bad..
>they are outright wrong user

I'm not the same user but the takeaway principles from RDPD are literally
Don't waste money on frivolous rubbish
Don't buy expensive liabilities
Do spend your money on income-generating assets

Yep well said... Basically what I meant.

And yes, can absolutely be summed up on one page of notebook paper haha.

-Hospital Guy

If you worked on building your sales network since that age you might not be rich but you have huge potential. It's your own fault you're a failure, Elliot

>Lol been with my wife since freshman year of high school.
Zigackly why you will fail. You are a child that has never played. Besides. You are probably lying.

Sigs exist, you same-fagging virgin NEET idiot.

Statistically that isn't true. The made up people you know don't mean its fact.

my problem with that is what he tries to redefine assets and liabilities and fucks it up, then he says "look at poor people (people that can't even save up a grand living paycheck to paycheck) how stupid they are! they actually work for money lol! they should have their money working for them! right?! so stupid!" and that is about as helpful as telling a fish that it's much safer on the shore from the sharks where he could run away from them.

i think the basic: frugality -> savings ->investment ->early retirement principle has much better books and literature about it, and much more concretely presented with calculations and suggestions elsewhere than in his book.

but again that is problematic it only applies to upper middle class more specifically to people that work high income jobs. because let's face it, a couple of grands even if you invest them or spend them on stupid shit won't take you anywhere. you need to have hundreds of thousands off dollars worth of savings to really take advantage of compound interest and investment in a meaningful way. if you have that you are not really poor now are you?

and here is the illustration that really makes you think. if you have the amount of money to even consider meaningful investments you are in the top 7% of the population. you are already lucky and chosen. already upper class.

I have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
I didn’t understand your example.
I understand Kiyosaki, every single time.
I agree with him 80-90% of the time.
But then you are not a bestselling author.
Kiyosaki simplified things, which allowed a mental leap over that roadblock.

If the first thing is too complicated, a potential student will not bother learning the second thing.
The fact remains without Kiyosaki,
I would have zero financial literacy.
It's not the last word, as hospital guy said,
The story draws you in, his personality, etc however well crafted.

Assets, liabilities, cashflow, etc these would not even be in my vocabulary.
It was designed for the masses, and yet academics are mad because he doesn't spend 100 hours or 100 pages talking about economics.

Newsflash - nobody cares.
They are sick of those kind of experts and their amazing predictions and forecasts which are wrong more often than not.
Nobody wants to read a boring ass 700 page textbook on economic theories and another 700 page textbook on corporate finance.

He is not an economics or finance lecturer.
He doesn't claim to be.
Neither does he ever claim to be a financial advisor, etc.
His angle is lessons most people can understand.
By the way, nobody ever points out that Kiyosaki is the CEO of Rich Dad, an education (ok, info marketing would be more accurate) but all the advice he sanctions is written in collaboration.

Rich Dad Poor Dad's financial advice was contributed by Sharon Lechter, and she does have finance credentials, the same with his real estate books.

He has over 20 books that I have read in the Rich Dad branded library, and each is written with or by an expert in that field he trusts.

That's the genius part - over 80% of people will ask 'but what assets can I acquire?'
- you're looking at it! His brand, his books, courses, a board game, a computer game, an app, a site, a platform, YouTube videos, this is all sorted of a business, and IP assets too.

how much real estate have you bought?

>Kiyosaki simplified things, which allowed a mental leap over that roadblock.
he butchered concepts and mangled them and they lost their integrity.
if you dumb evolution down all you get is a statement "the strongest dog fucks" will this statement allow you really understand the world and will it really teach you the lessons darwin intended to teach you? i don't think so. he does this a lot tho in his book. and repeats himself a lot too.

>The fact remains without Kiyosaki,
>I would have zero financial literacy.
i don't know if reading kiyosaki counts as financial literacy user. but i hope you actually read other books on the subject.
>That's the genius part - over 80% of people will ask 'but what assets can I acquire?'
>- you're looking at it! His brand, his books, courses, a board game, a computer game, an app, a site, a platform, YouTube videos, this is all sorted of a business, and IP assets too.

exactly my greatest problem it's quiet cynical... if i tell a guy that i can show him how to make money out of rocks if he buys a rock from me, and then when he asks "now how do i make money out of it?" "silly goy i just showed you!".

I believe he simplifies things.
It will get 80% + closer to a better understanding, and may help them to achieve more, if they use it.

It’s not a magic pill that solves everything.
If you know of one book that is, tell me.
It doesn't exist, since each person will have their own unique flaws, good or bad luck, mental or physical health, drive, contacts, creditworthiness, etc

I also call bullshit.
You use non-accurate quotes, not even close.
Your understanding of his principles seem flawed.
You are aware there is more than one book?
I have watched over 20 hours of his content,
Read over 20 of his books, reread, took notes, and...drumroll please...took action, and kept going.

He is more contrarian than most personal finance authors from what I have since read.

And I would wager $1000 right now most read his books only once, in between movies and sitcoms.
Not good enough.
Did you take notes, carry those notes on the one page you mentioned, keep going until you tick some off?

>You use non-accurate quotes
you know what paraphrasing and irony is right?
>Your understanding of his principles seem flawed.
oh please do tell me more!
>I have watched over 20 hours of his content,
that's a lot of emotional investment.

there was only one phrase that really struck me when i read his books the rest not all but mostly is just bullshitting and fiction.

"if you want to be rich you have think like a rich person first"

i have to admit i can't find any fault in this yet. it's arguably hard enough to change the entire way you think (almost all people will fail at this step) and if you fail his bases are covered. it's the only stroke of genius i could detect in his book, but i'm absolutely not sure if he is not just quoting someone i don't know.

it's kinda like "to do miracles you have to have strong faith!" if you can't do miracles your faith is not strong enough simple as that right? absolutely fucking genius! it's of course a fallacy but never mind that.

No I wouldn't understand evolution from that -
But seeing an infographic is less info than reading a textbook, and I would get 80% of the understanding from a few examples of animals evolving on a timeline, and a few paragraphs.

Maybe the wikipedia page, which is less info than Kiyosaki's back catalogue.

Shit, even 'survival of the fittest' would get me halfway there, or maybe 'animals adapt over time to their environment. The more adaptable, generally the more successful an animal is. Humans are very adaptable, thus are found on every continent'

No, I have read many books since, but I avoid overly technical ones, my point was Kiyosaki realised most people prefer stories, and the most successful books are all stories. Nobody gives a shit about textbooks. They are for 'A Students' and 'B Students', not 'C Students' like me who have to hustle because we can't rely on academic qualifications.

So, yes, in that respect, I am exposing my own bias here - I'm not academically gifted, and I can't stand deep technical or accounting subjects, I have a short attention span.

Gimme a book with a story,
I'll fill in the blanks.

For the other stuff, I'll hire the experts, like he does and advises.
I don’t study accounting, I hire accountants, I don't study law, I hire lawyers.
I don’t know how to drive either, I hire a driver.

He was once quoted as saying he went into business because he's not that smart and he's lazy. If you're not smart and lazy, that pretty much leaves out academia and hard work, it only leaves business.

There is a video on YouTube of Richard Branson saying he gets confused between net profits and gross profits.
I could give more examples like that, many more, but you can succeed in spite of not knowing some hallowed financial or economic theory or formula.

I think being smart is overrated, and being bold is underrated.

My cousin is a director for a huge real estate firm, he couldn't calculate amortization to save his life.

>this attitude

enjoy being dumb, l'm not Jesus if I read the bible 5 times

to be honest i'm struggling with finance books myself. i try to read them, but i catch myself doing just about anything else (like now shitposting here). right now try to read intelligent investor, because it looks like a good counter to the "can't beat/time the market" retardation. and also i want to get into stocks in the future. i have been doing my research and calcs on the early retirement thing, and the fact is it's fucking hard unless you got lucky and can save well above 50% of your income. and even there there are no guarantees. investment and finance is a fucking minefield in turmoil. so far i could up my savings to 40% and now try to read and educate myself as many of these get rich guys advised.

but i'm a programmer i choose this profession because humans baffle me and i'm more comfortable with machines. the entire investment market thing seems to be about humany psychology and needs shifting around on a global scale making local vortexes. it's completely hysteria driven and not deterministic. it's hard for my mind to process. i find accounting the most boring thing ever and simply can't make sense of a companies quarterly report.

so it's a long road i guess no hurry. but the more i read (and vids i watch) from others the more wrong kiyosaki looks. i think the rich dad poor dad was one of the first books i read in the topic.

not Veeky Forums topic

>humans baffle me and i'm more comfortable with machines

I make approximately $4 a day. Does this this hold true for me compared to a man that makes $1000 a day? No.

That image is just utopian bullshit.

>irony
Yes, but you genuinely seem to repeat the same views that many of his alleged readers do, who upon further cross-examination, do not appear to have read any of his books, or perhaps it is poor reading comprehension on their part. Not to mention recall of a book or video, etc needs notetaking and review period/revising it, testing it, taking action, and not running away at the first sign of a setback or failure.

Because as he says 'most people are pussies'

>tell me more
OK, I can only go by what you have said so
>i think the basic: frugality -> savings ->investment ->early retirement principle has much better books and literature about it, and much more concretely presented with calculations and suggestions elsewhere than in his book.

Frugality?
He said him and his wife did their first big real estate deals based on being able to get a BMW and a Mercedes, although they were renting at the time. He doesn’t say look for things not to buy, he says the rich think differently, they don't justify why they shouldn't have something or spend something, they justify why they should and work back from there to his and why they should get it.

Savings?
There is little advice about saving, it's more about deciding what you want and dreaming bigger and what you are willing to sacrifice and a timeline for those goals.

Investment?
You claim he recommends financial products, investments, whereas he recommends them as the last piece of the puzzle.
You focus on cashflow and wealth creation first, and the primary asset he recommends is a business first. Owning real estate and stocks, bonds, gold, etc and other investments or assets come much later.
He claims to own oil wells but I don't know if it's BS. He does mention his books as assets too.

>Early retirement
He never says this, he just says, like him, focus your effort on higher yield activities. Find things you enjoy. He hasn't retired.

woah stop there dude... i never said ksyosaki advised that line, i said that is what actually works for poorfags not kiyosakis bullshit lol.

frugality is a weird word but kisoyakis main advice is spend below your means just as well it's the same advice you receive elsewhere covered under the philosophy of frugality. you forgo luxuries to acquire assets that will make you money same shit.
>what you are willing to sacrifice
that is basically saving usually you either put in more work and not increase your spending or cut back on things you want to enjoy.

i know kiyosaki is not exactly the same example as the millionaire next door of the mr money mustache dude. but he actually tries to sell the same dream. that you can sit back and let your money work for you. that's what most people call retirement not doing nothing. the terminology is different the focus is different and that is why you are confused probably. kiyosaki is a fucking crook he doesn't really have the numbers or the exact method laid down to reach financial independence in a reproducible working way and that is why you should avoid listening to his advice.

if you want to "escape the rat race" you need to be financially independent which means in most cases there is no point for you to be in the workforce anymore as it adds negligible amount to your wealth thus you are retired from the _workforce_. not that you have to stop doing business or anything. different terminology same shit.

What's your burn rate?
Do you spend $2 and save $2?
By contrast, the guy earning $1k a day may be spending the whole $1k, or even worse,
$1,100 a day, in credit, IOU's, notes, tabs, liabilities, bills, etc
The first guy is better off.
The second guy will eventually learn personal finance, but the hard way.

When I got my first job earning over $500 per week, I started spending $6-700 a week.
Interest isn't the only thing that compounds.
Debt does too.
When you're earning $500 a week and you're spending is $400, that $25 monthly credit card interest is no biggie, it's only -$200 owed, but then you got a new phone plan and some new clothes this month, so next month is $50 in bills plus -$500 owed, and it's rent day nigga. Then your phone gets lost or broken and you hit the card again. And so on. Next month you owe $100 and your balance is -$500 and so on.
That wasn’t in intelligence issue with me,
That was a habits issue, and a self-control issue.
That's one of my main point ts here.

If information was all we needed,
Everyone on Veeky Forums would have a six-pack, a banging GF or FB or Waifu, and be a millionaire.

My bad, nigga.
That was what I took away from what you were saying.
What books or sources are you recommending?
I have my own.
I am financially independent, I could stop working but why?
I do what i enjoy now.
I'm not rich, but wealthy as in I could stop working for a couple years if I need or want.
I have passive income streams, assets, businesses.
The frugality thing though?
No, and this is what I mean when I say I think you maybe skimmed this book once,
Then confused it with some general advice that was paraphrased or out of context.
He does not advocate savings until you have something worth saving.
He says 'pay yourself first'.

No, the conventional view of saving is saving not for assets, but for the car, or the house.
The car has utility value, the house many perceive as an asset.

Their first asset was business and real estate deals, and the cashflow from that, allowed the car purchase - they leased initially, to live the lifestyle but at affordable means, but just slightly out of their comfort zone, so they had to aim higher - They weren't clipping coupons and taking the bus or buying a beaner.

Leasing higher end model cars, clothes, jewellery before they could technically afford it, while working on their deals, gave them the proper mindset, they just would avoid personal debt for things like that, but their efforts were focused on wealth creation - increasing cashflow, and any reading shit about mortgage rates, savings plans, investments, corporate structure, etc they didn't study that shit deeply.
They would pick up a Barron's dictionary, hire some experts to set things up, they do the rest.

The building a business and assets are still fundamentals missing from most financial advice and there is still way too much emphasis on boring shit and financial products

The advice aren't his concepts, mostly they are are those of Sharon Lechter, as I said. She could-authored 14 of his books, and is partner CEO of Rich Dad.
She's on wiki.

lol, I dunno, have you seen The Big Short?
The guy that Bale played, Michael Burry, who made millions, is apparently only investing in water now.

What you said about local vlrtexes, and it being hysteria driven and not deterministic.

Well, for one thing, the Echo Chamber and Network Effect of an interconnected world does mean less signal and more noise, and we will see more unpredictable events like a few months back when billions disappeared in a second, only to be immediately restored.

Multiple layers of botnets and ETF's and robotraders all leveraged against each other, caused a temporary blip, remember that?

so, what can we determine?
We can determine water will be a scarcer resource according to current projections, and those with easy water rights will have an advantage.

The fact is, most success is not borne of academia or being the smartest or the most knowledgeable, and technical info has a mostly low ROI.
It reaches a point to of diminishing returns for most people at the academic level.

It's borne of hustling, guts, taking risks, influence, intuition, amongst other things.

As for the markets, lol, I'd rather gamble and bet, at least I have fun. You will never have the inside info.

Also angel / seed / early stage investing.
For fun and profit, negotiate perks too.
The returns are just way bigger...

>He says 'pay yourself first'.
that's actually a line from "the richest man in babylon"

>What books or sources are you recommending?
if you reached financial independence i have nothing at this moment. i'm still working on mine. frugality is not a concept for someone that already is financially independent. it's for starters. but the live below your means save and invest is i think good advice unless you are about to kick the bucket. in which case i advise "hookers and cocain"

interesting view, but like i said our situation is different. i'm more cautious because it took me 10 years to save up my investment funds. and losing them would literally waste years of my life. that is how i see money years of my life it took. if only that nice exponential growth would kick in but it only grows linearly yet.

>So, is their advice worthless?
If some significant fraction of the population pays to hear their advice, and 0% follow it,

yes, it's worthless.

but in this case you can't ascribe failure solely to the reader. We have to assume that some percent of his audience does their best to follow his advice and still fails to get rich.

because his advice while perhaps reflective of the paradigms of wealthy people, is not the reason they became wealthy.

>The second guy will eventually learn personal finance, but the hard way.
this is what Veeky Forums actually believes

businesses don't stay within a budget, and the person making $1k/day will always be wealthier.

finance has almost nothing to do with business.

His wife uses that quote more than him,
But yes, they do say it.

Yes, but I tried the frugal route before, and while being humble is a virtue, it only works up to a point and is more about smart choices and habits.
Here's what I mean - Robert & Kim would pay double for a nice car on lease each month because it reflects upon them - nobody wants to do deals with the realtor in a shitty old car and part of your job may involve transporting out of town clients or investors.

Get real, the majority of people making money in the stock market have leverage - other people's money - and time - they don't work a job-type-job.
They get dividends and fees.

The Kiyosaki's applied the same principle to business and real estate to shield corporate assets and avoid tax liability. They set up deals, they didn't flip houses.

Jesus, Kiyosaki doesn't save unless he has $100k + and passive income, dividends,
He often demonstrates the declining dollar value.
It's losing real value faster than you can save it.
That's not exponential, the compound interest / richest man in babylon ideal is based on 1950's banking models, not the fractional reserve FIAT money we have now. Inflation and living costs eat that up unless you wanna live like a monk.

So, you read Kiyosaki's but have a cautious saving approach? So you are not thinking rich, and you do not have a rich mindset?
For all your studies, I could hire you and you'd take it, you'd sell your time.
You couldn't even hire me now.
That seems like a lifetime ago, and it was only 5 years.
Exponential growth has to come from adding something new, not adding the same elements (10% of income or more)
Nigga, have you read The Millionaire Fastlane?
Now that is the real deal.

Then most doctors and CPA's advice must be worthless

I don't even get your point.
Did you get mine?
I meant people don’t necessarily budget or use an income statement or balance sheet, etc or an app to track it, or hire an accountant. or CFA, they generally leave it until either they get promoted or get a raise, etc and they look for a mortgage or car loan or something stupid and then they start looking to their finances or tracking them.
Or, as in my example, they get into debt, $10k in my case, and they realize they have not only bad habits but a poor mindset and rising debts. They start economizing and cost-cutting and saving way too late, yes, but their habits were poor too.
I watched too much TV, spent too much time in the gym, played vidya, surfed mindless shit, spent way beyond my means.
I mean, in terms of my wardrobe and frivolous shit, I probably spent more on stupid shit in an average week or month than the cost of a nice car leased.
By comparison, Robert and Kim would rather go to a restaurant than buy video games, since you gotta eat anyway, and they would pay double for a better car, I would pay double for better weed a day better porn and a better cable package.

As Jim Rohn said - he asked his neighbours how much his new TV cost, he said $500.
Jim said he forgot to look at the receipt.
Subtract all the mindless hours of unproductive time you will 'spend' on it.
I was literally spending time, to earn money then using that money to buy future blocks of unproductive time.

You need to use money to create wealth vehicles or platforms,.or leverage.
Other people's time and money can be used for exponential growth.

>It's losing real value faster than you can save it.
>Exponential growth has to come from adding something new, not adding the same elements (10% of income or more)
nah let's not make bullshit claims here. i'm aware of the effect of inflation but even a single percent yield above inflation will make your wealth grow exponentially. i think it's reasonable to shoot for 5% above inflation with fairly safe investments (long term).

now you are just boasting, but here is the deal. interest almost always is proportional to risk taken. if you come out of a business with huge interest and downplay the risks you took sure makes others look stupid, but what it really does is makes you a liar.

my plan is the following: keep on working and saving and investing until the yield of my investments is less than what i can scrape by with. if i can already live off my investments quit my job and freelance and also look for business opportunities in my freed up time.

the only problem is the projected date where i can finally quit keeps slipping out. my father got sick last year (cancer) so i had to pitch in on his treatment. etc. didn't had very good years. it's a miracle i could continue growing my savings accounts.

i know a dozen guys btw that really have this outlook at life and business kiyosaki advocates. none of them got rich tho. they always have something, they always sell something or flip one of them opened a fucking shop. but not one of them got rich. because not only you need the mindset you need the opportunity and the luck and trial and error.

i want to do it a little better when the time comes. with more thought into business and advantage. but it's so fucking far away.

This user gets it, I bet you OP just read and did nothing

>just read and did nothing
now i'm curious, please tell me what did you do after you read it!

It's not a bullshit claim.
It's the wool pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Inflation is mostly shown as affecting interest rates, mortgage repayments, taxes, salaries, the boring shit that barely even register if you have a rich mindset.
I know successful guys now, they have a TV so they can put on Bloomberg or CNN on mute while they do other shit - like business all day, nigga.
That shit takes focus away from doing real deals.

I signed up.to the top 3 financial advice sites in the country - after 3 months of them I felt sick to my stomach - the same pleb bullshit.

What inflation rates typically don't include is your real dollar-cost average and spending power, compared to 20 years ago. You don’t notice the creep of stealth taxes until it's eating away your savings. Or you don't notice the knock-on effects.
Your electricity just crept up 5%, or your gas prices, combined, or the water or property tax.
I rented an apartment and the inflation costs were factored in at 6% a year, but I gotta pay for that in other ways too! A chocolate bar, a coffee, goes up, because business rates go up to adjust. In my town,.you can't get a coffee for less than $5 because business rates doubled in ten years.

>What inflation rates typically don't include is your real dollar-cost average and spending power, compared to 20 years ago. You don’t notice the creep of stealth taxes until it's eating away your savings.
you are talking about shadow stats on inflation? i'm aware of that but there is no clear cut way to define them, as the relative prices of goods and consumer habits change all the time. everyone with an axe to grind can make up these baskets however he likes.

i rent my apartment for the same price i did like 5 years ago. but yeah real inflation is not objective it's subjective. i think i should take my time to try to measure and log it better.

Really, that book I mentioned, TheMilionaireFastlane buy it borrow it steal it torrent the it I don’t give a shit and to be honest the author doesn't either these days.

He would rather you read it and drop him a line or review if ya liked it.
It basically expands on what I long suspected but couldn’t put into words - that stocks, investments, savings, even real estate is all bullshit unless you have a foundation of cashflow.

>it's so fucking far away
Because you allow it to be,
because you won't act or take risks.
I took risks initially that were 'win-win' and nothing to lose.
I didn’t say I bankrolled $10k on a laundromat.
I said I upskilled, increasing earning potential, I sold more, I made more deals - I make at least 5 offers a week. That doesn’t take money - it takes action.

Kiyosaki and Trump do the same.
Kiyosaki got there first by shielding corporate assets. Trump learned corporate finance the hard way, his earlier deals exposed him to personal bankruptcy, he personally guaranteed them, after that he only did corporate deals with limited liability - financial risk and tax-wise.

Once a deal or venture pays off, you can make more profit centers around it and more cashflow with that leverage. Savings and typical investments don't have enough potential return.

Honestly, I can predict you don’t succeed because -
1) you don't ask for the money.
2) you aren't selling anything, you have no inventory
3) you have joined network or team in place, of partners, peers, investors, biz people, etc
4) any unplanned expense or costs rise eats into that savings pool.
5) you have no deals on the table, you can't sell or negotiate, you have no leverage.
6) you haven't studied even basic psychology deeply enough. If you understand people, you understand business. I think you believe people are more rational than they are, and they will see through your bullshit.

>It basically expands on what I long suspected but couldn’t put into words - that stocks, investments, savings, even real estate is all bullshit unless you have a foundation of cashflow.
everyone has a cashflow user, and these things generate additional cashflow usually. could you make more precise points?

>I took risks initially that were 'win-win' and nothing to lose.
i don't know where you are from user but a win-win nothing to lose situation is not called risky around here.

>1) you don't ask for the money.
hmm...
>2) you aren't selling anything, you have no inventory
i'm not a merchant obviously i'm selling my skills for now
>3) you have joined network or team in place, of partners, peers, investors, biz people, etc
of course not 99.999% of the population doesn't have that either.
>4) any unplanned expense or costs rise eats into that savings pool.
that would be true for anyone. that's why they are called unplanned expenses. obviously the bigger the pool the less impact it has. it's a work in progress.
>5) you have no deals on the table, you can't sell or negotiate, you have no leverage.
i have no idea what you are talking about here frankly, why would i do these things? it's expressly not on my to-do list.
>6) you haven't studied even basic psychology deeply enough. If you understand people, you understand business. I think you believe people are more rational than they are, and they will see through your bullshit.
nobody ever accused me before with projecting too much rationality on my fellow humans user. ever. as for psychology sure, i have no aptitude whatsoever for people skills. zero or more likely negative. i can't work with something i don't have i will work around it.

Didn't read the whole thread. But I kinahave to disgaree on the hate on him. Well, he may be a shady person and his books maybe simple. But they did influence me positively in my youth.

Just this year I was able to break into financial independance. I bought a multi family house, where I can live without paying rent, which even generates income and will be paid of after only ten years. Instead of working as a wage cuck I have only worked self employed or tried out businesses. One of them took off quite well and is now my mainsource of income. Due to my living situation I can safe even more now and focus on buying my next property within the next 5 years.

Due to this I am living a very happy life and am quite well ahead networth wise.

All this would not be possible If I hadn't read his books as a teen.

So, no matter if his rich dad was a lie or if he shit on many people...at lease his stuff made my life quite a bit better in the end. So I have to thank him for that.

>I make at least 5 offers a week.
what do you do btw?

i tried half hardheartedly negotiate a domain sell we had low stakes i just gave it a try but botched it up so bad it was painful. when the jig was up that the fucker lied about why he acquired the domain and was actually trying to capitalize on it from the start and asked for an exorbitant price or more like he hinted really i got fed up and told him the fuck off an hung up on him. i still wonder if i shouldn't give it an other go just to practice keeping my cool a bit.

I took risks, but
All I risked was embarrassment, time lost, opportunity cost, limited liability, but not much real cash upfront.

I don’t mean cashflow from income as such, once that that is coming in, then you do deals then you do business, then further ventures, then you build assets, then conventional and alternative investments, you build multiple income streams - Millionaires have at least 7 different income streams.

But arguably business is the first asset and negotiating, dealmaking are essential. That's why psychology is essential.

1) expanding on this, who have you asked for money in the last year, month, week, day?
What is stopping you from asking for more?
Raising capital is essential to being rich or an entrepreneur.
Don't you have any plans? Bigger ideas?
Ask for more from clients, investors, banks, your boss,.anyone, and deliver more.
2) so you are an 'S' or an 'E' in Kiyosaki's cashflow quadrant? Employed or self-employed? You sell your time,.it's impossible to get rich this way.
Productization is key.
3) and what prevents you from acquiring that? Could you invite the most successful guy or gal you know to lunch? Pick their brains?
4) if you're of a rich mindset, credit or insurance or tax writeoffs can help.
5) then why read the book? You don't wanna be rich. There is no reason anybody shouldn't be negotiating on a regular basis and making offers or deals. Wtf are you saving for? Negotiate a pay rise, higher fees for your services, put an offer on something for half the price, negotiate lower bills, better service, whether it is your phone plan, cable bill, it adds up.
7) neither do I, I'm impatient and introverted and awkward. And as you probably figured, I'm confrontational and stubborn. It's cost me jobs and relationships. No matter. You can get further working on your strengths than your weaknesses. But selling is fundamental if you are selling your skills.

I'm going to bed, I'll expand on this if you're around tomorrow.

>All I risked was embarrassment, time lost, opportunity cost, limited liability, but not much real cash upfront.
that's not risk as we talk about on this board. when i speak of risk i speak of loss of investment partial or total. "risk of losing face" a fucking laugh man! time is money that's an other matter.

i will probably have a partner and sales guys dealing with this kind of bullshit if i ever have my own business.

>What is stopping you from asking for more?
i'm stuck on ideas, i think i could actually get loans for starting a business if i had one in my mind with solid market advantage that is durable.
>Productization is key.
that is what i have been telling these fucktards at my firm too... i guess i could apply it myself if they don't listen.
>and what prevents you from acquiring that?
well i find it hard enough to call someone up and ask "what's up?" but interestingly i actually tried this once. didn't work out. i'm still trying to have a beer with an other guy a childhood friend we have been mailing for like months now and nothing yet.
>then why read the book? You don't wanna be rich.
that's a pretty hasty conclusion. just accept it there are different styles and approaches. great many geeks and shut-ins made it in my field of expertise.
>Negotiate a pay rise, higher fees for your services
that is actually something i have decided already. i have postponed it to this new year, but yeah on this we agree it's fundamental to my plans.

>Then most doctors and CPA's advice must be worthless
if nobody follows it, yes.
>I don't even get your point
my point is that all your discussion of personal finance has nothing to do with business.

and business is how people become wealthy, not personal finance. As a general rule staying within a budget and working frugally are failed ideas for business.

growth costs money. Usually borrowed money.

The problem with self help books and programs is if you take them all as gospel. You must continue to read and learn through others experiences and ask questions and take everything they say with a pinch of salt.

Veeky Forums is filled with get rich quick schemes and everyone is looking for a sure thing. Kiyosaki's books are very basic and the first steps to a bigger world, but you must seek out that path for yourself.

>probably lying
BECAUSE NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN SUCCESSFUL BEFORE THUS HAS TO LIE ON THE INTERNET
kys

I've heard about him and just purchased the joint Trump-Kiyosaki book "Midas Touch".
It's packed with typos and lousy, near-pointless allegories Will never buy another Kiyosaki and I'm suddenly skeptical about paying for "The Art of the Deal".

We do talk about it on this board.
Depends who is in the thread.
I have had many conversations about opportunity cost in particular.

Look, this sounds flippant but you have to go in with the mindset that you have nothing to lose.
Ironically, the $10k fallback may hold you back if you just sit on it.
I literally had nothing to lose, I was in fact penniless and homeless.
So I realized the worst thing that could happen already has.
Anything I would get is all gain.
Opportunity cost didn't factor into it.
But I still say working a McJob, for example, is worthless once you have a couple grand, or a fallback of say 2-3 months living expenses.
From there, you should move straight to self-employed or business.

If you are not scared of losing a little money ($100 or so) on a venture or losing face what is stopping you from having inventory now? From asking for the money?

This is why I say you think people are rational.
As in -
'if it was that easy, everyone would do it'
'I need a stellar, original business idea to succeed'
Bullshit.
Everyone would not do it, they'd rather spend it on booze, drugs, porn, vidya, gambling, trinkets, whatever, at least they know the results, rather than being $100 down that month and possibly looking stupid.
Most people are terrified of looking stupid.
I remember reading about a guru/coach who would start a workshop by asking the attendees who would like $100.
Everyone puts their hand up.
So he takes a $100 bill out and holds it up.
He asks repeatedly who wants it.
More hands, some ask for it.
He holds it out.
He tells them whoever wants it can have it.
People start asking for it, but nobody moves.
He keeps asking, and eventually, one person will stand up, walk over and take it from his hand.
Nothing was holding back the others from the money.
But most wouldn't even ask, and when offered it, all but one would actually take it - Go and get it.

You need to throw more shit at the wall and see what sticks.

I

sometimes there is a diamond in the piles of shit.

this post is such a thing. Also makes me wonder how often the homeless become wealthy. There's a bias in who becomes homeless, but there's also a bias in who becomes wealthy.

Why can't it be tested in theory and why does it need capital? Can it be microtested in reality? I rarely take mega-risks or liability without prototyping a beta. Most things can be hacked for $100 or less, and I'm talking total costs.

I used to work for UPS, the biggest parcel carrier in the world, that started with $200.

Does it need a loan? Also, I have read about entrepreneurs not qualifying for a biz loan, but they could get a car loan.
So they got a car loan, then conveniently 'changed their mind' and used it for startup capital.

Any thoughts? Software? Apps? Cyber security? I have a wild idea about the last one, but I don't like anything too techy, you can have the idea for free if ya want it.

There are legit networks you can join, but the less you know them, the better it may be, sometimes people you know, know you TOO well. They can’t dissociate their view of you becoming a version 2.0. Most people can't process it. I have met people from my past and I just feel embarrassed, I don't even know what to day to them, I just say I'm working for X company still, but I'm an executive now. The real truth would be too surreal.
Take your boss for a meal.

Look, you may want to get rich, but Kiyosaki has another Quadrant, not the Cashflow one, another one - based on priorities - it has four squares - Safe/Secure, Right, Liked/Loved, Rich.

You can want all of those things, but most won't achieve all of those, and will have a bias towards one of those squares as a priority.
Aiming for all of them, especially at the same time, drains energy from the other areas, I have noticed since from studying rich people, that they simply prioritize being rich, way above those other areas.
They are going to have to take risks, they will be wrong at times, they will have haters, they may lose family or friends.
This concept changed my life, I carry it drawn on a card.

Like many others, what held me back was prioritizing the other things more.

>they got a car loan, then conveniently 'changed their mind' and used it for startup capital
this will usually land you in prison in the US. Loan fraud, stolen collateral.

It's how the Deputy Mayor of London and Business Tsar, Rajesh Agrawal, started his first business,
A forex firm - Rational FX.
He maxed out his credit cards, and tried to get a bank biz loan for £20k. He was turned down. So he asked for £20k to buy a car. They said 'no problem.

I'm not sure if the law is different there, but who's gonna check? It's only a problem if they come to repo a car and don’t find one. How they gonna prove you didn't buy a car?

>but who's gonna check?
yeah, here they keep the title of the car as collateral. If you don't give them the title you asked for the loan for you go to prison.

that's cool you can do that in UK though.

>From there, you should move straight to self-employed or business.
shouldn't you actually know how to run or build a business? i know some people are literally born with a sense, i'm gonna have to learn it. i have no business sense i always try to get a fair price for shit i try to sell instead of get what i could possible get for it. bad reflex.

i remember i saw a business opportunity, i was playing this mmorpg and i needed scrap materials to build bad i barely found any, high level players found tons and sold them in bulk i never in a hundred years needed that much. so i bought the bulk packets portioned them out to smaller units sold them with horrifying profit like 10x margin. it was a pretty solid business plan as literally nothing could go wrong once i proved it works. in the game you see i don't have to employ anyone to manage the sells i didn't had warehousing costs and risks my inventory didn't get raided by gypsies and there was no way for my capital to be lost in fraud or my merchandise lost in transit. because it was a fucking game. and more importantly i bought a commodity that even if nobody wanted i would use up eventually myself and it was nonperishable. that was very good business i always had money for stuff. i started buying stuff with it that players sold for irl money like tickets to new acts. i bought them low and sold them high when there was a shortage. again i had no costs and risks involved. if you try this online you gonna get fucked 1 out of 10 transactions.

life is not as easy as a game, and i don't even know all the risks just the very apparent ones.

i had a friend who saved up for years and years he bought a house with a shop, this shop was the only one of it's kind for miles, his entire family pitched in and maxed out their loans, and he didn't even finish renovating his house, when a similar shop opened not 100 meters from his with more capital more energy more aggressive approach of new business.

>Why can't it be tested in theory and why does it need capital?
i'm a software dev. more like an architect really. problem with software is you can't sell it really. it doesn't work piracy is so rampant it's the default approach especially here.

you can only sell service not software. all the big players figured this out. i'm not into apps but even apps more likely go for free with ads which i find entirely distasteful and not my world. service is business in the traditional sense. but it has to be good service for people to use it.

i can also think about opening an office where i rent out developer time and doing custom developments to clients. this is what i'm the most familiar with. but the market is very competitive even tho far from saturated tens of thousands of existing firms i have to compete with.

so the risks of losing capital investment are significant. i could build it up from a loan and i could possibly make it so that when it all falls apart i would not lose much money and not get out of it with debt. altho options are limited and the good loans for startups around here go out on the usual corrupt and familiar ways i'm not privy to. getting loans from the market would guarantee the company folds over or not generate profit for like 10 years.

Why did you stop doing this?

Why is life not like a game?
These are not life-or-death decisions for the most part.
They are recoverable and reversible.
Imagine the worst case scenario.
Get comfortable with it.
Now realise how unlikely it is.
You're not going all in on a $100k house hoping you can flip it.

Every business is different.
So how can you take a course to run a unique business with a unique person - you?
You can look at case studies, get an MBA, but you can only look at what other people are doing or have done, for so long.
What matters is what YOU do, and how you do it.
Entrepreneurship is a set of habits and a mindset that can be learned, and it might take a few years, so why not start now?

>you can't sell software
Tell that to the billion dollar software companies.
What is PayPal for the most part except a front-end portal with backend software and limited 'service' staff?
Their startup story is one of the best. PayPal was originally a beta test page, set up to showcase the startups main product - encryption. There was no business plan, even when they were in business almost by accident because people started using it to send money anyway. Their funding came after the fact, and they were PayPal before they had offices, employees, a CEO, or any real capital.

So, games, apps, maybe? have you read Appilionaires by Chris Stevens? ad-supported is only one business model, there are new ones evolving all the time.

Are you interested in the cyber security thing? I don’t know of anyone doing this yet, but I'm not an industry insider. I know I would use it and would pay $100 a year or so. Piracy will not be an issue, it would be a combo of SAAS/IAAS/PAAS I am sure if you could prototype or even wireframe it I could fund it I guess, or you could run with it.
It would maybe need a million or so to do it right, but I don't see why a beta couldn't be hashed out for $100 if it stitched existing elements or outsourced them.

>Tell that to the billion dollar software companies.
exactly even they realized it's futile but what there is like a 100 of those (maybe 10 really relevant) and there is like billions of failed software startups and independent devs in the same timeframe?

it's horrible odds, obviously if you don't even try you won't get lucky i get it. i just want to do it right as much as possible.

>Are you interested in the cyber security thing?
i'm very interested in cryptography and security, i have a very good understanding of ig and wrote several cryptographic apps i was involved in the WASTE development (probably never heard of it but whatever) but what people call "cyber security" today is a fucking meme filled to the brim with snakes oil salesmen. so my answer would be a maybe?

Also, I say fuck the service and productize first.
Sell existing products first if you want.
Is there anything stopping you from selling or cross-selling content, guides, software, apps, from others?
As a broker or affiliate?
One site I own takes in $10k a month alone, and it's pretty basic, but makes the sales. Early on, it seemed worthless, but once it's matured over 5 years and backlinks, authority, it becomes a nice little piece of Internet real estate.
I could sell it as it's totally residual, bar some housekeeping once a month, and a VA does that.

Service is only good as a business using other people’s time and money as leverage points, but why not have an MVP (minimum viable product) that can be bought worldwide, 24/7? That's the ultimate goal. How many clients can you serve once business becomes complex? Sometimes you will have too much work, other times not enough.
People could buy a thousand of a product worldwide, before you could even offer a client a coffee.

Your friend is a loser. He picked a destination sale point in bricks and mortar, rather than using existing Low-cost virtual networks, platforms, and infrastructure first to create 'profit centers'.

>Is there anything stopping you from selling or cross-selling content, guides, software, apps, from others?
well usually the problem with this kind of redistribution is as follows:

>find a nice site where the software is laid out good reviews help support staff
>okay fine i want to buy this (after some considerations)
>next move: google where i can find the software cheapest
>oh hes not only the maker of the software sells it cheaper there are some second hand options that are even cheaper!
>feel sorry for the suckers for a tiny fraction of your time as you buy elsewhere

>Service is only good as a business using other people’s time and money as leverage points, but why not have an MVP (minimum viable product) that can be bought worldwide, 24/7? That's the ultimate goal.
yes but any data including software is infinitely copy-able with little to no resource use. thus inherently worthless and it's very very expensive and time consuming to make and maintain them. i know this very well because i'm a dev for like 10 years now. we sell custom software to pharma companies and we barely break even because the costs of development are constantly underestimated and we always get jewed out. the custom software market is nice because you don't have to have a product to sell it. it's bad because you are not really selling a product but services man hours. even tho everyone pretends you are selling a product and you get shafted on deadlines and scope constantly. it's a nightmare.

as for different areas it's even worse. for software used by the masses the competition is sky high markets are saturated and already established brands have 20 years of development advantage. you need to find a singular moment in history where a new software is needed and do it well and somehow be able to capitalize on it. because people will do everything in their power not to buy your stuff.

The cyber security idea -
OK, you're the tech guy, tell me - do you know anyone doing this, and why can't it work?
Password master key and dynamic password buffer, link to optional encrypted VPN from anywhere.
Biometrics - retina, fingerprint, faceprint, voiceprint - I have sent all these being used by banks, etc but still no product which combines all four.
It could have different settings determined by B2B client, such as 'all four prints needed' or 'two/three prints needed'
Could have different versions and special purposes - one is like a firewall check-in, for all your devices, one is B2C, one that is a B2B platform, etc businesses don't pirate software, nigga, neither do professionals.
Look at Concur, that was basic shit and SAP bought it for 5 Billion or something because they already had a massive user base. That was all basic design concepts and good selling, plus the network effects of marketing it to C-Level execs and selling them corporate solutions - tracking expenses, which also helps the employees.

I know a guy built a courier company with 15 clients, multi million nationwide company, based on one agreement from a card issuer to deliver their credit cards cheaper and more securely than anyone else. He got a million dollar loan based on the letter from one client. That's what I'm talking about, the offer came first, the deal came first, the company was built later. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both did variations on this theme.

I currently subscribed to 3 different software services -

One is $50 a year.
One is $500 a year.
One is $2k a year.
None are complicated.
Some campaigns I run may cost $10k in services.
Most of that expense is leveraged on the back end.

I use other services and businesses.
They are rarely the cheapest.

I pay a guy $150 to scan five books, digitize them, and he returns them, I don't know if this is a good price or not. I don't care. He made the sale, he advertised the service. I spent about 2 minutes comparing the price on page one. I don’t even know if he does it, or just brokers it, I could care less.

There you go again with that rational shit, nigga.
The first expense is Dropbox.

Now, given your rundown of how tough it is out there, and the competition has a head start, explain PayPal to me. Besides a custom encryption buildout, they had no product or business model.

Explain Concur.
SAP could have built that in a week.

Explain Dropbox.
Why did they excel when the big boys had a 'head start'? They were still having committees about what color the logo should be, and what to call it, etc when Dropbox launched outta nowhere with a simple, clean design and straightforward solution.

There are imitators, but an installed subscriber base is cashflow, and a residual asset.

What do I do?
That's becoming increasingly hard to answer.
I'm pretty far removed from what I 'do' now.
I guess I look for opportunities, leverage, how I can profit from more things I enjoy.
At this point, I don’t get paid so much for what I do, but what I've done.

>do you know anyone doing this, and why can't it work?
in my country no real demand, and the same applies as to software spending on security seems like a frivolous expense to most companies. so inn the future i will keep an eye on this market yes, maybe even go work for a cyber security company to gain experience and contacts, but this local market is not ready yet.

what i learned about security in my many years of working in the industry and pharma production is nobody wants real security. they could care less about real security issues (like plain text passwords for the central database in configuration files) they want paper they have security that is adherent to xyz standard. that's all they want. cheap as they can get it. nothing else matters. i'm not going to be the part of that business. if i do security i want to do it right.

How can you not start a successful business in 10 years?
When I started a webshop it took me 6 months or so before it took off.

>leverage
>The amount of debt used to finance a firm's assets.
i sure as hell can't imagine what would be the good in that.

i bet that was in the 2000's well before 2008. try that shit now! i was making a landslide from freelancing webdev in that time. i was a lazy cunt i only worked a few days a month. but i was living well from that.

I started a webshop in personal hygiene products in 2015. My initial sales were from stores who I approached and bought my (imported) products offline, but later I stopped approaching businesses offline, but the online sales kept going. Both new and repeat orders.

That sounds like that one King of the Hill episode

oh sorry i thought web dev shop my mistake!

That's not necessarily what I mean by leverage, I mean as in negotiations.
For example, somebody needs to sell or finance an asset, right NOW, their deadline is short, I, however, do not, and can take it or leave it.
That is a form of leverage.
Exclusivity rights - if you sold X items in ax amount of time, you have a track record, you can negotiate exclusivity in a territory for reaching a target of X sales, that requires no risk or large capital investment. If you succeed, it's all upside potential and future leverage, you can keep.the rights or sell them back to the owner or to someone else. You can pitch to stores, distributors, etc these kinds of deals can be worth more than any business.

No offence, nigga, but you seem 'book smart but not street smart' you're the A or B student working for C students with more hustle Robert always talks about.

You say there's no market and I would pay it, and I would finance it and sell it, this is win-win and you are already talking yourself out of it.
There are 10 guys here who would jump on my dick if I offered to finance a venture at no loss to them.

If not that, why not selling anything? I didn’t say limit it to software. Why can't you be building an MMORPG or app, not fucking around with them.

Also selling memberships or freemium signups for other games. A game review site that links into affiliates?