Why aren't pushrods used in F1 racing if they're superior to OHC?

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Lel

I wonder how fucked up for life that dude is.
That's not how you lift heavy things.

OHC isn't even used in f1

Wankel owner here, least the pushrod works

Cuz muh big veeyate will be crippled by rotating assembly mass and piston ring friction long before the valvetrain can't keep up

>n/a ls/lt can run 600hp
Your full of shit, if flow was a problem it would not flow that good

4 valve OHC heads flow better than any OHV 2 valve out there, this is a fact

how the hell else would he lift it

Where do you think they keep the cams?

.

and yet ford is scrambling to keep up even with its cuckboost

checkmate DOHC fags

You are a dumbass

Seriously? It's fucking 3 in the morning.

*1:15

just wait till i turbo my v8 and ill blow u ford shitters the fuck out

That doesnt make a 2 valve head better than a 4 valve one

A 4 valve has a bigger valve area compared to a similar 2 valve, thats why it flows better

DURRRRRRRRR
but for what they are the old ls flow pretty well for a ancient design

So what does ford have to do with anything?

they championed the DOHC v8 and rub it in GM's face while trying to keep up, then push the v6 ecoturd meme

Because F1 specifically requires a 4valve DOHC setup, just like it requires a 1.5L turbo V6.

If they just gave the teams a 75x60x60cm box to work with, and say "alright, your engine has to fit in this', you might see pushrods. With a fixed internal displacement though, you're not going to see them.

You could destroke it though. Especially on a custom block (like they have in F1), you could lower the deck height, and get the cam higher up in the block (relatively speaking). All this would reduce piston speed (and thus ring friction), and it would also shorten the pushrods, which significantly reduces their reciprocating inertia.

Remember when Mercedes made a one-off pushrod V8 just to fuck with IndyCar rules? That was a great example of what it takes to make a pushrod engine competitive in a racing series restricted by displacement and boost.

Show me a single factory head that outflows a 6.4 Hemi head then.

I'll wait.

See And more valve area is useless when you have to cram two (heavily compromised) ports into the area where a single well-designed port used to be. Most of what you're doing is making the port bigger, which doesn't always show up in terms of performance.

>You might see pushrods
No, you might se sohc engines

Let me guess, the 6.4 Hemi head is good becajse of its cfm right?

The F1 regulations have this to say about camshafts:

> 5.17.5 Camshafts must be manufactured from an iron based alloy.

> Each camshaft and lobes must be machined from a single piece of material.

> No welding is allowed between the front and rear bearing journals.

and

> 5.17.7 Reciprocating and rotating components :
>a) Reciprocating and rotating components must not be manufactured from graphitic
matrix, metal matrix composites or ceramic materials, this restriction does not apply to
the clutch and any seals.
>b) Rolling elements of rolling element bearings must be manufactured from an iron based
alloy or from a ceramic material.
>c) All timing gears between the crankshaft and camshafts (including hubs) must be
manufactured from an iron based alloy.
>d) High pressure fuel pumps elements may be manufactured from a ceramic material.
>e) Torsional damper elements may be manufactured in a Tungsten based material.

There is no requirement to run DOHC apart from the fact it's superior.

Pushrod babies BTFO

BTFO

why would anyone make claims that can be easily destroyed by looking up some info

Oh wait pushrodcucks are that retarded

>The engine must also have six cylinders arranged in a 90-degree formation, with two inlet and two exhaust valves per cylinder and a single turbocharger.
Since you can't make a 4-valve pushrod V6, you're basically forced to use OHC.

There are 4 valve pushrod v8s from duramax, why couldnt you make a v6?

because it wouldn't fit in a fucking f1 car you dingus

Racing usually has a displacement limit faget.
OHC makes more power per litre than pushrods.
OHV engines make fine street engines where there are no such limits

>somebody made a pushrod 4 valve V engine with more than two cilinders
neat.jpg

I only knew of the CX500 (V2) and Cummins 24v, so I always thought you couldn't do a V with more than two cilinders, given how those two are designed. Apparently, you can.

Anyways, given both the Cummins and Duramax designs, they're handicapped in two ways. For one, you can't splay, angle the valves away from each other, they have to stay more or less parallel, and that's not going to be good for shrouding. Most modern F1 heads are almost (semi-)hemispherical with how much valve angle they've got going on. Second, holy mother of reciprocating inertia. I can understand how it'll work on a 6000RPM diesel, but there's no way that'll work on a 15K RPM F1 car. The only viable design for that would be Honda's CX500, but that can't scale - you can't add any more cilinders.

>You can't EASILY make a 4-valve pushrod V6 rev to 15K RPM
There, fixed it.

Of course a 6.6L diesel engine won't fit an F1 car, but making a 1.6L V6 with that head design would fit.

The displacement is calcul(french word)(a equation), the displacement equal a certain power, so you can have a ohc or a pushrod engine both really optimized with same power, its all in the dispplacement(2L. 5L. etc.) wankel are for wanker.

Not the duramax diesel you doubledingus

I'm now imagining a field of F1 car, powered by Duramax, Cummins and Powerstroke diesel engines, with all of them slathered in Big Three logos.

Fuck, I'd pay to watch that.

Cummins kinda did that

The displacement is a function of power that can be calculate on a sheet of paper, an optimized 2L. both OHC and pushrod equal a quantity of power than can be calculated by mathematic. If you optimized the air intake, the ignition, the gas exit of both the ohc and pushrod with the same CC the power will be same. The lighter motor will be faster but most likely less reliable(because of less metal).

>Since you can't make a 4-valve pushrod V6,

It's not that hard, even the skeptics can do it. If it was going to result in better power or efficiency it would be standard in F1.

See So apparently all of the big three make 4-valve pushrod diesels. It kinda makes sense, because it's great for packaging, and the reciprocating inertia doesn't hurt below 5-6K RPM. However, they'd be ill-suited for F1 use: I don't see any of those designs making 15K RPM. Also, airflow at high RPM will be bad because you can't splay/angle the valves correctly, like we see on modern F1 engines.

Pushrods simply can't work in the current F1 formula.

So pushrods cant compete???

Never have, never will.

>all of the big three

VW
Toyota
& GM

The Big Three are GM, Chrysler and Ford.

Chrysler and ford are tiny next to VW and Toyota, don't be so insular.

Isn't Chysler owned by Fiat?

Underrated

The three biggest car companies (globally) keep changing). In the context of the automotive industry, ''the Big Three'' usually refers to the three biggest automakers in the USA: GM,Ford and Chrysler.

No, by FCA, which is a Dutch company with their financial stuff in the UK, and they own Fiat, Chrysler, and a bunch of other companies. It's a mess, but Chrysler is still seen as an American company.

Despite having a smaller bore, the STOCK coyote heads only flow 10 percent less on intake and exhaust at .600 lift. The gt350 5.2 heads have been CNC ported, similar aftermarket ported heads show an increase putting them a percentage or two above the 6.4. You really can't beat an OHC intake runner as it's almost flat and the valves move away from the cylinder walls when they open. You can get close with hemp or canted designs but like user says they will just have 4 valves per cylinder to increase flow area

Stock Coyote heads flow 298cfm @ .600'' (intake), and stock 6.4 Hemi heads flow 339 at the same metric. Matter of fact, a 6.4 Hemi makes 312cfm @ .400'', so it's massively outperforming the Coyote.

>Despite having a smaller bore
Bore doesn't determine head flow, valve size does. The depending on what company you work at, the metric for head performance is usually the airflow at peak valve lift, divided by the valve skirt area. Since the Coyote's airflow is worse, it has a lower lift (.47x vs. 57x), and it has way more valve skirt area, by most companies' standards it's simply a lot worse.

>similar aftermarket ported heads show an increase putting them a percentage or two above the 6.4
So, what, 350cfm @.600''? Handporting a 6.4 head will get you up to 370.

does he drop that engine?

that's gotta be like 400 easy

.

and I'm imagining a rule in F1 whereby the driver has to be able to do 5 ATG squats with the engine at some point in the race

>The three biggest car companies (globally) keep changing).

The order of Toyota and VW may swap occasionally but they outstrip the minnows of Ford and Chysler by a long way.

>bore size doesn't determine air flow
Yes it does. It limits the size of the ports and valves you can put into a combustion chamber. I don't feel the need to correct you on everything else since you obviously have no idea what you're talking about

e

>Cfm determines if a head is good or not

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

A kawasaki zx10r is a shitty head because it only flows 200-ish cfm according to this guy

I was going to pull you up and tell you how flawed your post was, until I realised how on point it was.
>an engine 78% of the size has 90% of the flow