>Ford booked a record profit in 2016, yet its shares are down 30% over three years.
>Tesla has passed Ford in market cap.
>Investor pressure on the carmaker is cranking up.
finance.yahoo.com
thoughts?
What would you say Ford's problem is? How do you "fix" Ford?
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Ford took the easy road with the ecoboost. Ditching the V8 and normally aspirated engines so soon put them in a corner. And reality is the Ecoboost did not save them so much on mpgs as they thought.
Ford is great at appealing both to enthusiasts and normies, I don't see why they'd be having issues. Maybe they could work more on quality control/reliability to improve their image.
Ford doesn't have a problem, investors have a problem. They would rather chase pie in the sky dreams like Tesla.
Wallstreet uber users and metro riders don't know cars is the problem
Companies exist to make money, not to please your feelings
which doesn't make sense since Ford makes tons of money and Tesla makes nothing
Investors are ignorant shitheads with no common sense or taste who only see numbers when they observe the world, and they are literally the reason we can't have nice things, in ANY industry. Stocks were a mistake.
I cant wait for them massive discounts to get more sales. I guess I will be getting a Stang GT.
Shareholders are greedy fucks who only give a shit about short-term gains/dividends instead of long-term investments in R&D. David Brancaccio was talking about this on NPR this morning.
The mustang is the last enthusiast thing they got.
>FoST, FiST, FoRS, Raptor, GT
Focus RS too
Investors are waiting for electric cars and who takes that market.
Also, investors have been burned by shitty, worthless, uncompetitive US automakers subsidized by the US government.
Who cares if they are making profit selling their fat-ass fucking trucks during this economic upturn? They are bound for ruin and soon and every investor knows it.
Nvm I'm retarded. You mentioned it.
>Shareholders are greedy fucks who only give a shit about short-term gains/dividends instead of long-term investments in R&D
This is literally the exact opposite of the problem here. Everyone is foregoing short term profits from Ford because of the longterm dreams they have of Tesla one day ruling the world.
this
they pushed hard on shit that they could easily sell in Europe so they dont have to change as much between regions. that was fine when people wanted that, but interest in gas guzzlers has been rising since last summer, and they just dont deliver. They keep trying to appeal to european sensibilities in the US with shit like the new continental which is just a wannabe european luxury car.
and of course, the ecoboost meme which didn't really do much for mpgs.
Ford is the only company that always seems to know what the people want, and gives it to them. And they have the Fusion hybrid. Are shareholders so fucking stupid they think the company is falling behind because they aren't providing a 100% electric option? Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it a good idea. The Grand Tour episode about electrics was enough proof. You have to plan longer routes around charging stations and then wait hours for your car to charge, while gasoline users can find fuel on every corner and it only takes five minutes. It's full-retard to go electric until we get better battery capacities or near-instantaneous charging and vastly more common places to charge.
I wouldn't have minded buying a Focus RS later in life if the price was right. Initial pricing was $46,969 Canadian dollarydoos ([lolnospoiler]more like $52k now[/lolnospoiler). If I had that money, I could get a loaded 17 Mustang GT with the Perf Package and still have a few grand to spare. Versus what is essentially a 5-door hatchback. Vancouver doesn't get a lot of snow so I wouldn't need AWD very often unless I was driving to Manning Park/Whistler or something (but then I'd probably import a 92~95 Delica/Pajero for that)
Ford will most likely be the only US automaker still around 100 years from now, doesn't make them a good investment in the timespan investors look into.
They are fucked just like all the other shitty US automakers, in any
Not to say Tesla or someshit will out compete them, Tesla will go bankrupt or be purchased, just that the industry will no longer be profitable. Anyone can design and assemble an electric car.
they do provide a 100% electric option.
also
>Ford is the only company that always seems to know what the people want, and gives it to them
the problem is that consumer tastes never truly change, they just get put away when they become inconvenient, and then come back later.
when gas prices went sky high, people stopped buying gas guzzlers and wanted small econoboxes.
but once gas collapsed, people suddenly wanted gas guzzlers again, and the auto market just had nothing to offer them because they were all focusing on fuel efficient small engine shit, and only had niche shit like the token Muscle Cars and SUV's. So people went to the used car market instead to get their hummers and landbarges.
Ford bet on consumer tastes having changed in the hipster green direction, when American car tastes have never truly changed because we are still chasing the 50's and 60's mentality of bigger is better. It's simply shifted from sedans to SUV's. people simply got something more convenient while gas was expensive, while still lusting after something more wasteful like a mustang. And even there Ford has been trying to shill non-V8 mustangs so they can kill off the V8.
Ford is doing profitable in the short term, because they are still one of the most reliable brands,but it's clear they don't know what to do in the long term. They don't have any real vision
Worth noting the Focus RS in Canada comes with a second set of alloys with TPMS and winter tires, which is like 2000 CAD in itself
And I guess Bronco... whenever that comes out..
>What would you say Ford's problem is?
Disappointing guidance of late. Ford cited "higher costs (including commodities, warranty, and investments in emerging opportunities); lower volume (primarily fleet); and unfavorable exchange" as reasons for their first quarter revision.
Apparently management sees op costs as an area for improvement,, hence the recent layoffs.
Also the whole peak auto thing that auto investors don't believe but is most definitely true.
>How do you "fix" Ford?
Apparently you lay off 30,000 people
t. Ford fanboy (6gen Stang GT owner), professional trader (stay away from auto stock, Tesla included) , and someone whose time is way too valuable to enlighten you plebs of such basic information
How would you guys feel about an electric Mustang?
what the fuck is peak auto, that commie bullshit about private auto ownership going the way of the dinosaur thanks to self driving cars?
>electric
>mustang
pick one
I would be more inclined to an RS if I wasn't living on the coast, where those extra sets of alloys and winter tires would be OP. How often does Vancouver get a major snowfall? Once every couple of years? Back east or in the Prairies though it's an attractive option if you don't want to risk driving an RWD pony car in the snow. It's one of the reasons I think the A45 M135i and 308GTi would sell really well in Canada as a matter of fact
>picks both
Google "peak auto sales"
Why can't you be like Eli Black and throw your suitcase through the window, then follow suit
I would feel like how I felt when Ford switched out the V10 for an Ecoboost V6 in the 2017 GT and got rid of the manual
VAG will absorb Tesla.
Now is the time to buy Ford stock with the Ranger/Bronco on the horizon.
>VAG will absorb Tesla
unsure how I feel about this idea
>Ford doesn't have a problem, investors have a problem.
The real problem is just the small perception problem in the thread. Serious investors look at the future performance of Ford and not the past. Sure, past history is used as data, but this is not what I or the investors are concerned about. The future performance is based upon Ford's future lineup as well as how it will compete against the anticipated future lineups of its competitors. If Tesla is going to cannibalize part of Ford's future market share, then of course Tesla will be partially chased.
Tesla is a different sort of company that is very close to being a dangerous investment. Not all investors in Tesla are at an equal footing as one expects with investments in MSFT or some other normal stock. Tesla investments are more like how you'd invest in chinese companies. The top people who can dictate how cash flow occurs within the company use technically legal means to steer profits. Thus, even though Tesla is continually a money-losing company on paper, investors such as Elon Musk are billionaires already. And not all of his money is from straight sales of stock shares.
Corporations are allowed to treat payments as business expenses. Thus, there can be lucrative internal compensation contracts signed which provide certain investors with huge dividends upon contract maturity. The little investors such as you or me that buy shares would not get such payments.
Because these are paid as business expenses, they never appear on the record books as profit being disbursed to the investors. That's why if you invest in chinese companies that promise to give dividends to stock holders, you can often get cheated. The real and controlling investors get their lucrative payments out of the system before you do, thus a company that would actually have profit will not show any profit.
Simple investors are retards.
Fords new V8 is good and the tech behind the v6tt is good.
Tesla is a meme company who are quickly becoming a techy fad company like 1999-2010 apple.
They will have their time in the sun then wither and die
Ford isn't reliable and this is a shill thread
It would be sold as a side model while the gas versions continue to exist
>Fords new V8 is good
be nice if they'd put it in something outside of the mustang and maybe some of their trucks.
Like, I don't know, a full size sedan
Investors like memes. Ford has no positive meme equity.
We had the old one in a fpv and xr8 falcon and didn't export it.
Not happening gungadin
it'll never happen. who the fuck would the market be? The kind of people who buy electric cars don't care about Muscle cars, and if they did, they'd buy an actual muscle car. And the kind of people who care about muscle cars dont care about electric cars, much less an electric ''muscle" car. there's just absolutely no point in it other than WANTING to get laughed at
Not happening. Ford's pushing their ecoboost in almost all their cars like crazy. Everything but the Super Duty trucks.
I'd be damn if they resort back to putting V8s in everything again but this time more fuel efficient.
At worst it could be a neat concept to gauge interest. An electric muscle car with enough power and torque to do burnouts and lay down some competitive 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
I think everyone has more faith in Tesla than Ford because millennials all think Tesla is the future while Ford is synonymous with gasoline cars. In a shrinking consumer car market where young people will soon make up the majority of car buyers, it's going to get harder for traditional car brands to grab the attention of vapid young buyers that think Tesla is saving the world.
>shareholders
Go get real jobs you worthless cucks, and don't be surprised when you fail at "investing" because your high school stats course should have taught you that you are statistically unlikely to win in the investment world.
FUCKING dumbass Americans, this is why your shitty culture is so unsustainable.
>Fwd
>Fwd
>AWD hatch
>Automatic V6
>Automatic V6
Are you even trying?
honestly i think that would be the failing. instead of trying to latch on to the muscle car identity to which it does not belong, why not create a new sporty electric car identity. Muscle cars did not exist before someone thought it up. it was new.
I'm all for electric cars, my biggest issue being they are just not interesting outside of appealing to liberals
and putting an electric motor in a mustang isn't going to change that view. That would just reek of laziness, and no real view of what kind of audience they want.
>this mad he's too poor and stupid to make ez money
Lmao
Analysts this year have been shilling hardcore companies that have had a growth of 10% minimum
You can literally open the new York times and have a dozen stocks in front of your face that are guaranteed to make you money
All you need is money to start with :^)
Volkswagen makes good on the turbo promise. MPG and power. Ford chose to use less sophisticated ECU. Volkwsgen runs what was once considered impossibly lean under full boost and full load. They run high level ECU that can stay open loop with wideband control. And have ultra fast knock control algo. Eccoboost goes pig rich 11:1-10:1 at any hint of load, thus using gay amounts of fuel and seeing no real advantage in many cases.
Yeah. Thats why Tesla will be a memory in 10 years.
>guaranteed to make you money
Oy vey. I bet you have money in Tesla
Tesla is a meme
I invested in panasonic though
They could literally just build the focus, f series, and mustang and be okay
Man you're so smart. So much smarter than those idiots in Berkshire Hathaway or any of those billion dollar investment institutions.
>BH
TOP KEK, I actually had dinner with the President, former President, and some of their board members by complete accident.
My favorite part - the fat Australian gal on the board who I didn't realize was Aus, I talked shit about Australia and in a very pronounced Victoria accent she AGREED that Aus a shite :))))
Tesla will be chewed up and spit out by the concept of capitalism in no more than 10 years
You need crossovers to make it today. Every successful brand has at least one crossover, even Lamborghini is getting one I think.
I just dont get the appeal of crossovers
Thats because you dont have 2 kids and a dog
What's the point of forced induction if you're gonna run it lean?
A crossover would be terrible for 2 kids and a dog.
A suv, truck, or wagon would be way better.
>tesla
>make money
Their normie cars are what really matter and makes the money, but if the could come up with a couple good looking luxury cars their public image would improve.
If I worked for ford I would advise cashing in the best engineering german meme, people worlwide still regard american made cars as quality, normies and petrol heads alike like ford, but they're dull when compared to audi for example, they need to make a head turning suv or sedan, won't be as profitable as their normie cars but it will boost their reputation.
I think they're doing well with the hybrids, soon most buyers will want electric and they will be in a good position.
Work on quality control. Thats their biggest problem.
>soon most buyers will want electric
nice meme
people only care about electric when gas prices are high. the moment they drop people stop caring
Then why is tesla's market cap higher than fords?
>replace that with shitty uncompetitive US EV automakers who are subsidized by the US government
ah yes very nice
Ford is to American auto as Honda is to Japanese motorcycles.
A good range of reliable, effective, well designed products that fit nearly every role but don't get anybody very excited because they don't have meme features.
All you're saying is that Ford offers an enthusiast option in every common drivetrain/engine combination
Do you think the current low gas prices are sustainable? People want gas guzzlers again because they're idiots and gas got COMPARATIVELY cheap for a while versus a few years ago. It's not gonna stay this way. By the time they start manufacturing the gas guzzlers people supposedly want, they won't want them anymore. Plus, stupid fucking normies don't even know what they want. They think they want a gas guzzler but they'll be trading it in when they realize they're paying twice as much for fuel as they did when they owned a smaller car.
Suddenly making a bunch of inefficient cars because of a bunch of MAGA rednecks celebrating the temporary defeat of liberals is the worst decision they could make.
there is never a time to buy auto stock
This.
Gas isn't going to stay cheap, retards. We're in a temporary lull and prices are already starting the creep.
t. oil industry worker
>hatchback
>hatchback
>hatchback
>truck
>supercar
The mustang is the last enthusiast car they have.
because tesla is running on dreams and fantasies, not to mention government subsidies
how is fist and fost and especially fors not an enthusiast car?
Raptor is such a good truck it is almost an enthusiast car
>boomermobile
>enthusiast
>how is fist and fost and especially fors not an enthusiast car?
By being hatchbacks and not cars.
>11:1-10:1
yea except i consistently stay in the 13-14:1 ratio range in load on mine...
Dont spew bullshit you dont know anything about
>hatchbacks and trucks can't be enthusiast car
>all the old hatches that show up at drag strips and autocross tracks because they're low weight
>offroad enthusiasts and trophy trucks exist
>supercars aren't enthusiast cars
give me some of whatever he's smokin jesus fuck
>hatchbacks and trucks can't be enthusiast car
Because they're not cars!
>supercars aren't enthusiast cars
Because they're super cars!
Is any of this getting through to you?
No because you're not explaining your opinion at all.
I guess YOU GOT ME with trucks, technically the raptor is an enthusiast TRUCK, not a CAR. Faggot.
But a hatchback most definitely is a fucking car you moron. And how in the fuck could you possibly think a supercar is not made with enthusiasts in mind?