What are atheists theories about life after death? Surely...

What about what I said was false?

To materialist, life can only be defined as "stuff that makes more of itself, sort of. kinda. but you know what I mean. sort of thing"

If a materialist is terrified of death, but isn't terrified of going to sleep, he hasn't thought about his position.

>To materialist, life can only be defined as "stuff that makes more of itself, sort of. kinda. but you know what I mean. sort of thing"

Whereas a non-materialist would simply assert some soul and be done with thinking.

The definition of life is tricky for the same reason the definition of a species is tricky. There exists a continuum between what we would definitely define as life, and definitely define as not life, the same way there exists a continuum a current species and an ancestor species.

unfortunately you can't. Thanks to decomposition, the information in the brain starts deteriorating within hours or even minutes after death. Stopping that from happening is the main goal of cryonics

I meant to greentext the part about einstein

In case the analogy didn't land, think of the spectrum of colors between "yellow" and "blue". It contains the colors "green" and "teal" somewhere in between, but you'd be hard pressed to define a specific point where the color becomes, say, "NOT yellow".

The same goes for what we classify as life and not-life. "Guy with brain" is definitely life, "rock rolling down a hill" is definitely not life, and in between you have everything from "dog" to "mollusk" to "virus".

The definition of life is an actual philosophical problem, I'd love to see your solution to it.

Life is anything made up of one or more cells undergoing metabolism.

Should I fuck off to Veeky Forums?

There might be an afterlife without a God.
Maybe the mind persists on some other plane of existence.

Probably not though.

So... Viruses aren't alive?

They aren't - and it's like no one finished high school biology around here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life#Definitions

Works better if you scan them while they are still alive.
youtube.com/watch?v=u4aaXzbsuMo

Perhaps this isn't exactly related, but how can one persist through life holding on to the belief that all of it is meaningless or devoid of purpose?

How does one cope with countless cases of suffering, the deaths of numberless children, injustice, ambitions and frustrations, hope and perseverance and legacies?

Why would someone rather hold on to the daunting truth of materialistic, spiritual void, rather than hoping for some kind of meaning and comfort?

This can't be -it- anons... Right?

> daunting truth of materialistic void
Non-materialistic believes could be as horrible and even more horrible than materialistic ones. Simple example, in materialistic void pain would go away, as you would die sooner or later, but for a spiritual cases, anything goes. In death by void, in entropy of absurd, there is always salvation or conclusion. Maybe not the best, but it is merciful and have no exceptions. It doesn't matter is a powerful phrase. What are you trying to accomplish by believe that all that suffering wasn't just meaningless, not only serves high purpose, but going as far with it, as to proudly declare, that your entire life should revolve around the very same purpose that used all of this suffering, as stepping stone for being the crown of all existent things in your life? It's glorified slavery.

There's a disorder called congenital analgesia. People affected by it can't feel physical pain; a form of suffering.

They aren't better off than you and me, in fact, it's quite a problem for them. Hence why it's a dangerous disease.

The analogy isn't ideal, but I believe that suffering is in fact necessary - even beneficial. Humans, although capable of intricate philosophical thinking, respond better to simple stimuli like pain or suffering. Without it, concepts like empathy or guilt or charity would have a hard time existing. Therefore, suffering isn't meaningless even in the absence of a higher meaning, rather serving social purpose.

The salvation of the materialistic void from suffering is no salvation at all. It's just an eraser.

>how can one persist through life holding on to the belief that all of it is meaningless or devoid of purpose?
it's really fucking easy. Here's how:

Understand that "meaning" and "purpose" are things that the observer superimposes onto the universe when they view it. If you can't wrap your head around this concept, you're an idiot, but that's okay. Rational thinking is for qualified adults.

I forgot to add that purpose doesn't necessarily "justify" suffering. The problem should be sought at the roots; and in this case much suffering is caused by lack of virtue, or some kind of base decency.

Material nihilism doesn't provide a basis for goodwill or social benefactors. If all is senseless in a pointless existence, you can do anything you damn well please, the end result is the same. Most other philosophies place emphasis on virtue and justice.

The problem arises when we face the daunting possibility of this materialistic void. It seems so probable, factual and true. It's almost unavoidable. What then?

You make a valid point, but fuck you nonetheless for not delving any further in its implications.

>how can one persist through life holding on to the belief that all of it is meaningless or devoid of purpose?
Same way anyone else does. Are you asking specifically or in general.

>How does one cope with countless cases of suffering, the deaths of numberless children, injustice, ambitions and frustrations, hope and perseverance and legacies?
I don't see why those would be any more acceptable with the assumption that somebody planned that on purpose.

>Why would someone rather hold on to the daunting truth of materialistic, spiritual void, rather than hoping for some kind of meaning and comfort?
It's not a choice, any more than it's a choice to see the sky as being blue. If you are able to force yourself to "believe" in something that gives you comfort then fair play. I'm not, though I haven't really tried and don't really care enough to try.

There is no such thing as the after life. If you want to answer this, just take a look on relativity.

Death is like an event horizon. Observers will see you dead, you will experience unconciousness, maybe even dream, forever. Because you only exist as long as your brain works your conscience. Since you cannot feel death itself because you lack a way to do so (ie: being dead implies your sense are shut off), you will forever trap on your last moment, on the last seconds.

It's just as simple as that. Now, stop thinking about afterlife. There is no such a thing.

The main counter to such reasoning is that even if suffering justified by meanings or purpose it is still here. All sensations are still kinda the same, so it isn't like rationalization really solved anything. In a sense main problem was in the suffering itself, not about a lack of meaning. Materialistic systems by their nature tend to limit everything including all of possible suffering. One man can suffer that much, after all. Idealistic systems tend to be more weak, to the point of claims of eternal suffering. It makes everything much more worse. Basically, the whole deal is like Black Square. You can try to reach for some kind of inherit meaning in that art object, but intuitively you know that you are will be bored from that art object and no explanation would change it. You can't defeat suffering, by finding meanings like you can't defeat the boredom of plain black shape, by finding imaginary depth in it. At best, you could just add some your layer of bullshit theory crafting around entire existing of such object and entertain yourself with such elaborate form of the escapism.

> suffering is caused by lack of virtue
Suffering is somewhat a normal condition. There is no way that lack of virtue causes it. Certainly, lack of virtue could make things worse, but it isn't like a perfectly virtuous being can evade it completely, or something like this. Suffering is a part of life, virtue doesn't really makes your live some fantasy realm. That would be a wishful thinking. Also, you should remember, that there exist certain virtue in seeing things meaningless. The first things that any artist should be able to see is raw material, blanc state, white page, etc. You should be able to fight any of delusions and false importances in a path of virtue.

> You can do anything you damn well please, the end result is the same.
It isn't problem of material nihilism. It is problem of people who bet all their existence on one moment in the future that is the end result. Why would you do this? I would argue that such ambition itself for the being that exists for years after years can't be considered healthy. It is a borderline insanity. It is nihilism (+1 moment in the end that really matter) that somehow lacks both of simple answer of real nihilist or purposeful nature of living in the present.

I don't disagree with you, although I believe you misread my post.

Much suffering doesn't equate to all suffering, and the second post above defends suffering as a part of existence.

Living in the moment is shallow if you disregard living with responsibility, or accounting for your actions. In this case the possibility of higher purpose doesn't even matter, as it should matter to your own self first and foremost.

Consciousness after death might be a better way to put it. I don't believe in any sort of resurrection in the classical sense personally. The only plausible way of living past your bodily death is copying your consciousness into a powerful enough computer. But then still, your own consciousness would end, and merely a copy of you would live on. Wouldn't make a difference to the rest of the world, but 'you' would still die.
The only we way to stop your consciousness from ending would be prevent death, at least the death of your brain. But that wouldn't be life after death.

Who cares.

Life is pointless, that doesn't mean it has to suck. If anything it just means we should strive to make a better world because we all have to live in it, and we're all gonna die in it. I know I'd rather die happy knowing I made the world better than die a sad, scared jaded piece of shit.
Religion was a crutch for me to feel better about life being shitty. Oh, the good people get rewarded.

The good people don't get shit. All these poor and downtrodden are being crushed and we're not doing a damn thing to help them. They'll die broken and penniless clinging to false hope, and that's sickening to me. We should help people NOW, because the here and now is us. It's real, it's tangible, and it's worth living.

Death is a loose concept. Nothing in the world actually dies or is born; matter just transforms.

Which means the soul is a Becoming, not a Being.

Which means the traditional sense of the Christian afterlife is an absurd notion.

That said, I believe that when the universe caves in on itself, it will simply transform and re-create itself, and the universe will go through its development exactly as it did before, and all phenomena will occur as it already did, in accordance with the logos of the universe. Our "lives" will happen again, infinitely, as they already have. The universe never started. It never ends. It always was. The true myth is nothingness; it is something no one experiences. When you "die" and lose consciousness, you will immediately wake up as an infant again. It already happened in this way.

What does that mean for stillborns?

It doesn't exempt matter without human consciousness. The phenomenon is eternal regardless of its nature.

Im not super religious in anyway but I think there is some form of reincarnation. Maybe we dont all become people or even animals but our "energy" sticks around it just changes form. I like to think the universe is like a giant recycling machine reusing us over and over just in different forms. I know this sounds like hippie bullshit but it seems more plausible than lul heaven. I personally have had experiences with unexplainable i guess youd call them ghost or spirit type things. So thats where i get this from i know they are out there for what reason they are are or what that means for us idk. Most likely its some mix of some hippie "energy" bullshit.

>I personally have had experiences with unexplainable i guess youd call them ghost or spirit type things.
What were your experiences? Did it involve shadow people at all?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_person

No if it was shadow people id shit myself. Ive had unexplainable voices call my name from behind me at home alone. Ive watched stuff move by themselves like a mouse in my flat desk just get thrown off the side not back if something had tugged the wire. My house we just moved out of a couple years ago we would have salt shakers get thrown across the kitchen and see white shapes briefly pass halls, loud footsteps, banging, and other stuff. My mom has had more happen to her but ive seen plenty to be convinced personally. I dont know about shadow people but i pray i never do see them ive been scared enough without something that intense.

lol

If you think that saying those words indicates real bright lines in the world and not organization in your brain then you're fundamentally confused about what science is.

>shallow
Compared to what? What gives some "thing" (living a certain way?) it's deepness?

If an Atheist believes anything happens after death they are not an Atheist, they are a retard.

I don't believe in "ghosts" per se because the phenomenology of Being is a little more complex than that, but I do think there are electrical pulses we can't directly see that can influence things on occasion.

Something I saw as a kid would be a "shadow person" according to its definition. And I'm not the only one who saw it, my brother and parents did. The person living in the apartment below us was a heavy alcoholic who died the week we saw it. But even with that experience I am skeptical and tend to think it was a product of superstition. If there is a better explanation for it my guess would be something electrically related...

Ya Im not saying i know the answer that it is "ghosts" per say. But there is almost assuredly something to this type of stuff whether is energy or something spiritual. It may be reminiscent energy of past events that we give off something like suffering or battles may cause it to come together and leave large stains of energy that our subconscious can only pick up. Idk its fun to ponder but until science takes the study serious we wont know about it.

That was a very good explanation. Pain has an evolutionary purpose to keep us alive.

I am an athiest and my position is that you are as you were before you were born. You simply cease to be. I don't claim this to be fact but it is the most logical thing to me.
Another thought; free will exists and evil is a by-product of this. Christianity claims to have a heaven with no evil? Therefore free will doesn't exist in supposed heaven. The latter would be hell. Either way nothingness doesn't seem so bad in comparison.

That depends on your view of Christianity. In Catholicism its a given people know we are all shitty people and try to be good. No one as far as i know thinks no assholes get in heaven. But then that depends on your view of what heaven is? Is it a kingdom on another plane of existence of real people almost like earth but better? Is it as in movies clouds and nothing but good shit sunshine and rainbows? Or is it something we cant conceive of that we go to? Possibly a state of being of consciousness.

Heaven is yourself. You have to create it for yourself. That's why Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within you and what he really meant by it before it was misinterpreted to mean "another realm we go to after death"

Good point. Nobody knows what heaven really is. One can only point out the logical inconsistencies and make their own hypothesis. We will all know some day I suppose.

Sure, it could happen, but there's not much to substantiate it. That being said, I'm open to anything.

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