If communists insist that the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, China and North Korea are "not real communism"...

If communists insist that the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, China and North Korea are "not real communism", or that they're "state capitalists", then why do communists and socialists constantly praise the leaders of those countries?

Not all communists think the same way. And that's true for pretty much every ideology.

leftcoms vs tankies

If libretardians say capitalism was the reason we have shit like air conditioning and iPhones, why does it become crony capitalism when you criticize it?

What makes you think that USSR, Cuba, Venezuela or North Korea have or had "real communism" in the first place? Not even the people who rule or live in those countries think that.

Because they can actually see the failings of their ideology

Okay, I know that this might be difficult for you to understand, but listen to me.

1) Those people are right when they say that none of those are real communism. All of those are real socialism, which is, according to their ideology, a step in creating actual communism, something which was never created and it is debatable whether is achievable at all.

2) I know this might be shocking, but not all people who share an ideology think the same. Some may praise a country as a good example of socialism - meaning that it is a country they consider likely to, in time, achieve actual communism, or a poor example of socialism - meaning that they consider the country to have strayed from the ideology they claim to be representing and/or are not likely to achieve communism unless something drastically changes.

there are definitely russians/sovoks who believed in the soviet union and still do

WTF YOU EXPECT ME TO READ AND THINK??? LE WHITE GENOCIDE AND SOROS MAN

Not a communist here, but unless you're retarded or intentionally pretend to not understand definitions, there's no way you can claim that USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, China or North Korea are or ever were "communist".

In all likelihood though, you are a rabid right winger high on Cold War American propaganda according to which everyone who criticizes the capitalist status quo and proposes a more progressive alternative is a communist. This type seems increasingly prevalent on Veeky Forums lately.

Political radicalism and dictatorships hardly ever lay a good groundwork for a Citizen First kind of government. That's true regardless of what (populist [for popular support]) form of societal mode they claim to represent.

And if you asked Marx, I'm sure he'd say that radical communists who try to skip capitalism and beeline straight to socialism are missing the point on colossally retarded proportions.

And socialism =/= communism =/= authoritarianism =/= totalitarianism. I hope you can understand that.

Our local Communist rebels hate China and the US equally. They call China "Betrayers of the Revolution," even.

But this is most likely due to China deeming them useless, Deng dropping its support of them, and even sending their "embassy" in China to house arrest to appease Filipino-Chinese relations during the late 80s.

You need to read Marx. "Communism" is stateless society made up from cooperating communes. It's utopian "state", society is supposed to reach after the workers revolution and the transitional period (which is most often dictatorship).

According to communists none of the govermnents reached the state of communism

No. The state had an official policy of communism as end goal.

So if it's state leftist economics (sorry, I don't know how to word it), would that be socialism?

basically yes

Altough most of occidental socialists are Social democrats who don't aim for communism

Private property should be replaced with personal property.

Having left-wing economic policies doesn't make a state socialist.

North Korea is a right wing monarchy for fucks sake. Why do people still think they are commies?

So what's the difference between socialists and social democrats?

Abolishing capitalism (Along with private property, class, and money) or simply reforming it.

Because libertarians also believe that the government shouldnt interfere
>Hillary giving handhouts
>Governments gibing monies to companies
>ruining competition

communism = no state = infinite amount of resources.
A country/place where everything is automated, not needing to work, how do we achieve this?
By capitalism...

None of those states ever claimed to have achieved communism and NORK has given up the ideology entirely, merely they claimed to follow a communist ideology while having the goal of eventually achieving full communism
No matter how often this is said these misconceptions keep coming up.

socialdemocrats wants to reform, the socialists wants to revolt.

social democrats want to implement features of socialism (welfare state) within the platform of liberal democracy

>hoi4
go play a good game like hoi3

fuck off Johan

Marx's vision of communism has no government in its end goal. Those countries do have authoritarian organizations.

You can argue that communism is an impossible utopian dream, whatever but people are right when they say those states are not communist.

No one serious actually praises North Korea. But in anycase, some people praise them because they mistakenly believe the state control gives better equality to its people or brings it one step closer to communism. Or some people hate America and capitalism so much they are blinded by the reality of actually living in these countries.

This is even more so true when you realize the most ardent supporters live outside of those states.

>150y/o ideology is a complete monolith
ah shit its this """argument""" again

*sniff*

Why is the welfare state considered a feature of socialism and not just a feature of the state?

state is an organization
socialism is an ideology (direction in which state can be changed)

states can be welfare states or not
socialists always push for welfare state

Venezuela isn't even at same level that these others countries. I never heard about a single statized factory there.

Venezuela's regimen is only classic populism with some opportunist speech.

Chomsky has a good line on the USSR and socialism.

>The only two countries that claim the USSR are the USA and USSR
>The USSR claims this to make themselves look benevolent
>The USA claims this to make the socialism look bad


It's pretty obvious that the USSR isn't representative for what any Marxist would see as socialism.