Complexion of Romans

Why is everybody in this thread talking about Italians as if they're all dark haired and with brown eyes? I'm an Italian who is from Rome and I have blue eyes and blond hair, most of my friends don't have black hair. Most of my friends aren't swarthy, nor do they have dark skin. (unless it's summer and they've gone to the beach and tanned)

They assume everyone are bastard Turk rape baby spawn cuz Mediterranean skin.

Not much different than nowadays, with its local variations in frequency of course.
It could be that perhaps, after 2000 years, lighter features got selected against a bit due to the climate and thus maybe the frequency of fair features was a bit higher, but I doubt the difference with modern Italy was huge.

Because roman art shows them almost always having swarthy skin and dark hair

>mfw British Productions, Hollywood, and HBO memed me and a lot of people of Romans with British Accents.
>they probably most likely sounded like Italians.
>But it's hard to imagine Toga'd senators and Legionaries going MAMMA MIA

Modern italian sounds as much like classical latin as french or spanish does

youtube.com/watch?v=mioA3xHe82w

This might interest you

>they probably most likely sounded like Italians.

The fact is that they didn't say mamma mia (because that's literally how you say oh my gosh in Italian, there's no equivalent in latin), but Italian is the most conservative romance language in terms of phonology (romanian or sardinian being the most conservative in terms of grammar). Italian preserves vowel length, consonant gemination and most vowels in latin except /ʊ/ and and the Near-close near-front unrounded vowel, which I can't type in Veeky Forums for some reason. Prosody is also very close because of Italian's synctactic gemination. Also Italian's palatilization of /k/ and /g/ before vowels isn't as far detached as other romance languages (though sardinian didn't palatize /k/ and /g/ at all, so it's more conservative in that respect)

That actually does sound very italian

This is straight up wrong. What are your sources?

btw my sources for this are Romance Languages: A Historical Introduction, Social Variation and the Latin Language, Vox Latina.

>What are your sources?
None, I stand corrected and ashamed

When was Augustus ever historically attested to be a blonde?

Suetonius describes his hair as "inclining to golden"

That's what I meant: the phonology more than the actual modern Italian language.

Oh I know this, this is from Nat Geo's docus on Roman battles.

Yeah, I just wanted to elaborate because I waste countless hours of my time reading up on useless information so I can post about it in a burmese archeology board

Suetonius was born long after Augustus died, so if it is true, it would have had to be a second hand account. And also in that case it must have been uncommon

brown and black

also they were universally manlets, like 5' 7" was considered tall

Has anyone ever taken a look at the direct sources on this common stormfag site/picture that gets posted?
theapricity.com/earlson/history/emperors.htm

I'm referring in particular to Malalas, who lived way after the Emperors described there, I wasn't able to find the actual quotes, the material all seems in Greek and I can't read it.

>prominent figures such as Hitler said that they were Aryans until something happened to them.
/pol/, what's wrong with you?

You wouldnt be able to understood.

Because Americans, the most frequent visitors of this threat are vastly illiterate subhumans?

>Because roman art shows them almost always having swarthy skin and dark hair

Only in the southernmost provinces.

If your source is fucking Hitler on anything historical then please close your Veeky Forums tab and promptly kill yourself before posting in the future.

Sage

>Why is everybody in this thread talking about Italians as if they're all dark haired and with brown eyes? I'm an Italian who is from Rome and I have blue eyes and blond hair, most of my friends don't have black hair. Most of my friends aren't swarthy, nor do they have dark skin. (unless it's summer and they've gone to the beach and tanned)

You're all Goth and Vandal rape babies

Because Americans, the most frequent visitors of this thread are vastly illiterate subhumans?

>Because roman art shows them almost always having swarthy skin and dark hair

Only in the southernmost provinces.

>but prominent figures such as Hitler said that they were Aryans
WIR WUZ

About your question buy yourself a ticket to Italy.

>Hitler said

You're probably a descendant of one of the many Germanic tribes that settled Italy in the centuries following the fall of Rome

no need to assume so, it's reasonable some blonde folks got into the peninsula since the bronze age with the entering of IE speaking folks from north-east Italy and later Gauls from the west

>because that's literally how you say oh my gosh in Italian
More like that's something from Super Mario. I'm italian and I've never said nor heard anyone say mamma mia irl, it's always some foreign media.

Oh so now we wuz deutsche and scheisse?
I thought we were niggers tho?
There have been plenty of studies done, Italy is basically the same nowadays as it has been since the italics first migrated in and displaced the previous inhabitants. All this rapebabby shit needs to end, it's baseless.

the real answer is not all italians were romans

if you're not a swarthy manlet you don't get to pretend you wuz romans n shiet

>the real answer is not all italians were romans
Get real, italics were a pretty compact genetic group. You can't honestly pretend to distinguish a latin from a venetic or a samnite.
Besides Rome basically started being relevant after forming a military confederation with the rest of the italics anyway, and a very great many contributors to the republic and roman culture (like the picentine Pompey, or the messapian Agrippa, or the etruscan Maecenas and all the venetic poets like Catullus and Livy) weren't strictly speaking roman, but romanized italics.

the point still stands that if you're not a swarthy manlet you're not roman

Oh well if prominent figures such as Hitler said it then it must be true.

You'd have to prove that romans were swarthy manlets first. There's no reason to think they were any different from modern italians, who are of average height and no swarthier than frenchmen outside of the deep south.

lighter than the greeks and darker than the celts

>if you're not a swarthy manlet you're not roman
say that to his face not online stultus and see what happens

Sulla was a fair haired manlet tho. If you wanted a fair haired lanklet you should have posted Caesar instead. Or Pompey.

they were shorter than the gauls and we have no reason to believe they were taller than the french are today

the facts are that environment, culture and nutrition determine height and those were different during the time of ancient rome than they are today

>no swarthier than frenchmen outside of the deep south.
so where rome was?

>manlet
source? he was the opposite of swarthy though according to his descriptions

caesar was not tall

he admitted he was shorter than the gauls

if anything this proves that most romans were manlets since suetonius called him tall and implied that 5' 6" was a respectable height

>be italian
>be pretty white with blondish brownish hair and amber eyes
>white supremacists think im not white
>people that are butthurt at the white supremacists who do think i'm white think i'm not white
epic

>the facts are that environment, culture and nutrition determine height and those were different during the time of ancient rome than they are today
This is an argument against romans looking different from modern italians on the basis of height difference tho.
>so where rome was?
Geography isn't your strong point isn't it? Rome is in central Italy.

According to Nazi scientist the Aryan race was divided in three groups: Nordic, Mediterranean, Aplinic

Picrelated is Augustus' pigmentation recovered from a statue which was owned by his wife, it also shows that what romans meant with subflavo (literally 'below yellow') was a medium brown not anything goldish.

kinda unrelated, but probably not, how pure was the gold produced back then? could it be that 'golden' for them meant something different from ours because their gold was more impure?

People can be autistic and fall for stereotypes

>This is an argument against romans looking different from modern italians on the basis of height difference tho.
i don't think it is

i think modern italians do look different from ancient romans, i also think that if you look like a swarthy manlet you look like a roman

I knew it the fucking history denies my people. Ginger kings were all the greatest men of rome

Why people asume all Germanics are blonde with blue eyes?
Why people asume all Mediterraneans are olive skinned manlets with dark hair?

I'm Dutch, dark brown hair, brown eyes, 6'4 ft tall. I know Italians with blonde hair and blue eyes.

protip: they're not real italians

This looks pretty white to me

Ignorant fuck
I wish I could beat your ass

How are they not real romans?

>How are they not real romans?
They conflict with his worldview, how could they be real?

because if you are not a swarthy manlet you are not a real italian

if a roman stepped into the modern world they'd look like napoleon
you're like those africans that say they're german

You mean the boers? Well they're certainly germanic.

Because people are retarded and think real life is like a shitty fantasy novel/game where different races (in this case eye and hair color) are segregated and live only in their lands. Thus, every South Euro is a brown guy and every North Euro is a blond viking.

yes that's right race is a social construct goyim

Black

way to miss the point, /pol/tard

They're autistic morons that take /pol/ memes at face value.

i love the authenticity and also the visual effects that look like a 90's videogame cutscene

I'm fairly sure Romans we're famous for having green eyes

Like most everybody else in the Mediterranean. Olive skin ranging from light to suntanned, dark eyes, and dark hair.

There were occassionally those who had light hair and it was noted as such like the case with Augustus

they probably looked more like al pacino

you mothaFUCKING barbarians are IN FOR IT NOW WHO-HA

Sounds very much like Spanish or Italian, without the many "s" from spanish and the very prominent "sh" sound from Italian. In a grecorroman world this language makes sense, as Greeks don't have a proper native "sh" sound

>such like the case with Augustus
Augustus didn't have light hair unless you consider medium brown hair that 50% of Italians have as 'light'.

It's not my words, Suetonius literally described him as having slightly golden hair and clear eyes.

>He had clear, bright eyes... His teeth were wide apart, small, and ill-kept; his hair was slightly curly and inclining to golden; his eyebrows met.

Interesting comparison with modern Italian

youtube.com/watch?v=Z7F0MCIiQsM

The anglo translator who translated that phrase did not know what Romans meant with the word subflavo (below yellow) so his best guess was "inclining to golden", now we don't have to speculate what was "below yellow" to Romans because we have the original pigmentation of Augustus of Prima Porta, a contemporary statue which was owned by his wife, and his hair color was the same as his eye color, medium brown.

>unibrow

Gross

Better quality

youtube.com/watch?v=g_Hia-oV2U8

romans, in general, were shorter than the gauls

>tfw could've been a respectable height if i was born in ancient rome

just fuck my shit up

That's because the pronunciation is shit.

>implying you wouldn't have been a literal dwarf if you were born in ancient times as poor diet would stunt the already stunted height that you achieved under the most ideal nutritional conditions of modernity.
WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?

Curly hair of various colors sometimes lighter but mostly dark, and they apparently had greyish tone eyes. It's tough to really say for certain though. They were distinctly shorter than barbarians. The Greeks were mostly the same in looks with works depicting Alexander the Great for instance with brown or possibly even dirty blonde hair, I would also note that the region from Greece that he hailed from was known for being extra barbarian. It seems that the Greeks/Romans/Phoenicians/Iberians/Carthaginians all had very similar genetic makeups which were distinctly different from the rest of the world at that time. Since then genetic makeups from those regions have changed drastically with middle eastern and Celtic/Germanic blood being introduced.

>The Greeks were mostly the same in looks
But the romans always called the greek darker and shorter than them.

>Caesar
>Fair headed

He's always explicity described as black haired

You do understand that "medium brown" is just a base coat, right? It's a general idea of what it looked like but it's hardly enough to definitively say what color the finished product was.

Looks like stallone

typical Veeky Forums anti Nordic thread
stay mad, medishits
you are not the same people as the one who built your culture
the eyes are the window to the soul
and your brown eyes reflect your muddy blood

no adult has natural platinum blond hair

>Nordic
>master
>race

...

>but prominent figures such as Hitler said

Nein, it's not.

>implying it wasn't bad diet and lack of sleep
my dad is taller, if i grew up right I'd be 5'9''

>this shit /pol/ bait thread got replies
Common Veeky Forums you are better than some WE WUZ NORD bullshit