Why did the French got so butthurt over a region they acquired only 200 years before...

>Is
I hate to break it to you Hans.

And many Czechs, Slovaks and Poles voted to remain German after WWI. Spoiler alert: voting means jack shit.

>the ownership of a region precipitates nationality
That's not how it works.

>And many Czechs, Slovaks and Poles voted to remain German after WWI. Spoiler alert: voting means jack shit.
So you're telling me the majority did?

>Speak French but have our own unique regional language too
>We consider ourselves French
>The government of France considers us French
>The world at large considers us French
>Even Germany has accepted that we're French for over half a century now
>We're not actually French because some guy on Veeky Forums said so
You're right that is not how it works.

Yes, the majority in the Upper Silesian plebiscite voted to remain in Germany despite being of foreign nationality.

>I'm going to anonymously pretend to be Alsatian despite not even being European!
>This will totally work!
Бpaвo

What I like about the French is that they don't even hide their hypocrisy.

>"Liberty, equality and fraternity!"
>"Except if you are Alsatian, Breton, Occitan or too much Catholic, of course. Then there is no national liberation for you"

Well that's because you're living there in modern times, and the area has been French for quite some time now. But you can't argue it was originally French. I've traveled through the area and all the place names are distinctly German, just like some parts of the north of France have distinctly Dutch names.

It was hypothetical friend. I never pretended to be anything. Why don't you actually address what I said?

Of course not. The same can be said of any place really. Where do you draw the line? There are places with French names in Germany too.

Then i suppose the region was rightful German land till they lost everything east of the Oder.
Anyway, if voting doesn't mean jack shit, what then matters?

frogs are literal nazis, except without being good at war and their country is full of blacks and arabs, they destroyed the renaissance and enlightenment with their retarded wars

>Nazis
>good at war

>>fell under HRE jurisdiction
True, but prior to that, it had been owned by the state of Lothringen, which the french and germans occupied themselves to carve out for the following 1000 years.

So seizing Alsace-Lorraine is as much fair game if it's done by germans or by french. The french merely tied to themselves a region that the germans had also tied to themselves before. No one has any true right to the region really.

Nothing you said there is hypocritical.
>Liberty
The same rights and freedoms as the French that live in Paris are afforded
>Equality
Even treatment under the law to Frenchmen elsewhere. No special regional privileges.
>Brotherhood
Strong bonds with other Countrymen as French, not as Occitan, Breton, Alsatian or whatever else, but true national brotherhood.
How very consistent.

I'm not drawing any lines, the modern day place is French. I'm just saying that the nationalists who claim that the area has always been French should be more aware of their history.

Anyone who says "always" is most likely wrong. I'm talking only about the modern period. Just remember that language and culture are dynamic.

I always see this argument that France destroyed local identities. We didn't. Breton, first of all was controlled by dukes that spoke french since the 12th century at least. Both Rennes and Nantes spoke an oil language. That's the same for Occitan, many french cities already spoke french and only the rural aeras spoke occitan. As for the violence exerced by school, well it seems pretty normal for me that we speak french in the french school. Many parents who could only spoke their local languages were actually proud that their children could speak and understand french.
Local dialects survived after the republic you know ? It's only with globalization that they're slowly forgotten.

dissolving burgundy was a mistake

Pic related was our original clay you see how much we lost, anyone who lost so much terriory would be mad if someone taken another part of his clay

This thread isn't about the netherlands

>only France can be claimant to being the successor of the Frankish empire

Cet argument ne marche pas, et maintenant ils vont te zigouiller en avançant que l'Allemagne a tout autant droit aux terres de l'empire Franc.

What can be said however is that Alsace-Lorraine was formerly Lorraine territory, and that neither the french nor the germans are that lawful in claiming it for themselves.

Frankish rulers didn't use Old dutch, mon ami

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaths_of_Strasbourg

Je vais utiliser la citation d’Hitler critiquant Charles Martel s'ils font ça.

>Je vais utiliser la citation d’Hitler critiquant Charles Martel s'ils font ça.
Soit, mais n'amplifie pas notre réputation de bagarreurs qui cherchent par tous les moyens à se faire passer pour les gentils sur Veeky Forums. Nous avons assez peu de droit de convoiter l'Alsace-Lorraine, mais les allemands en ont encore moins. Suffit de dire ça.

Because they identified as French, dummy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine#From_annexation_to_World_War_I
>The "being French" feeling stayed strong at least during the first 16 years of the annexation. During the Reichstag elections, the 15 deputies of 1874, 1881, 1884 (but one) and 1887 were called protester deputies (fr: députés protestataires) because they expressed to the Reichstag their opposition to the annexation by means of the 1874 motion in the French language: « May it please the Reichstag to decide that the populations of Alsace-Lorraine that were annexed, without having been consulted, to the German Reich by the treaty of Frankfurt have to come out particularly about this annexation. »[5] The Saverne Affair (usually known in English-language accounts as the Zabern Affair) put a severe strain on the relationship between the people of Alsace-Lorraine and the rest of the German Empire.
And let's also not forget that the Germans didn't deploy Alsacien on the Western Front, precisely because they feared mass desertion to the French side.

I wonder why French people would be upset if you annex French territory that wasn't German in a German empire. The real question should be why the Germans got so butthurt over a region that hasn't been theirs for 200 years to the point where they destroyed their empire over it... twice.

>Huge
Nah. Most "independence" movements in France are actually movements that want greater autonomy from Paris. And to an extent they got what they wanted, with the recent Région reforms.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsican_nationalism
>By 2012, polls showed support for independence at 10-15%,[3] while support for increased devolution within France was as high as 51%
>Among the general French population, 30% of respondents expressed a favourable view on Corsican independence
Frenchmen outside of Corsica are more in favor of Corsican independence than actual Corsicans.

No, there isn't. It's tiny and nobody takes them seriously.

>destroy their empire twice over it
How?

WW1, by making the Western Front neccessary (Bismarck foresaw this and wanted to treat France more kindly, to precisely prevent an Erbstfeindschaft).

WW2, through butthurt about "muh Elzass" among other things (notice that during the occupation of France, Alsace and part of Lorraine were annexed once again).

Imagine what the German empire could've been like today had they not annexed French territory.

>Imagine what the German empire could've been like today had they not annexed French territory.
They would try to annex Austria and lunch WW1: everyone versus Germany. You can't stop german autism.

Sorry, Corsica is Italian and Elsass is German.

Nothing against based France, but what's right is right.

You'd know if you had to fight half the word for that small region that speaks no one's language in the first place. Also strategically, is easier to defend a river's shore than a land line in the middle of nowhere.
Finally, fuck Germany.
Finally bis, Joan of Arc (and myself, that's important) came from Lorraine. Finally ter, it gives us our beautifull star shape.
Finally quadro, we're butthurts. Finally final, pic related gave his life so that we would have some things. Among them was Alsace-Lorraine (more precisely a frontier on the Rhine river).

Beautiful

>implying if Northen Italy was this big they'd even consider keeping below Rome.
>implying Poland would be that great without a powerful France
>implying Corsicans like Italy any better than France
>implying Greeks can hold anything in Asia

>This french shitflag
>Baltic and finland to sweden
>Full turkish zone to greece
>Irland to UK
>Corsica is Italian
>Alsace is german
>What the fuck this hungary
>Shit Russia
>Albania to Italia
>Want a big germany with a danzig corridor

t.Paradox pro-gamer

>You can't stop german autism

Its like an eternal constant. Like the speed of light or something.

Alsace was German and is now French

Alsace was french before german identity was a thing, also prussian autism can't understand that all german do not want be part of of the Reich.

>memeblobs everywhere
>Switzerland still exists
>the Netherlands controls Wallon clay
>the Netherlands controls German-Speaking clay
>Luxembourg goes to the Netherlands, not Germany
>Denmark controls Norway but there is no united Scandinavia
>Albania exists
>Portugal is independent
>Georgia is independent
>Polish memecorridor
>Estonia isn't in the same polity as Finland
>Absulutely terrible Hungary

No sir, I don't like it.

French claiming the Germanic Frankish Empire as theirs just because it covers more of modern France is like Poles claiming the Kingdom of Prussia as their for the same reason. It's German, get over it.

France is the Frankish Empire(or the last legitme succesor state)
And no culture is irrelevant on 1400 year of state fuckery.

>HE doesn't know that Prussia is DEJURE part of the Poland polish and German were only king in Prussia
I want Wewuz Prussian and shit german to live next time you will tell us that you're Roman.

>
>>always spoke German
>>fell under HRE jurisdiction
>>protestant
>>only became controlled by France in the mid 17th century
>>remained autonomous until Louis-Napoleon III
>>was and is French
>Lolno. Elsass was and is German. It's as French as Corsica.
Pro France mouvement was always strong in Alsace even after German Annexion.
After 1870 a lot of Alsacians preferred to live in France rather than in living as German.
A big part of these people has been sent to French Algeria as settler.

>protestant
German census 1910 in Alsace-Lorraine, religion:
Catholic: 76.22%
Protestant: 21.78%

>remained autonomous until Louis-Napoleon III
Don't know where you got this idea. Since the Revolution, it was divided into departments just like the rest of France, with no more autonomy than anywhere else.

At least try and get basic facts straight

Those polls aren't a good gauge of how Corsicans feel. Corsica isn't majority Corsican any longer.

t. zero knowledge of European history and nationalism

Also what the fuck are memeblobs?

>zero knowledge of European history and nationalism
Oh, so like the whatever autistic faggot made that shit-tier map?

>Elsass was and is German
WWI 380,000 Alsatians in the German Imperial Army
All sent to the Russian front
WWII 130,000 Alsatians in the Wehrmacht
All sent to the Russian front

really, the Germans didn't trusted them?

Vote for parties in Alsace-Lorraine who favoured returning to France in German Reichstag elections:
>1874: 96.9%
>1877: 97.8%
>1878: 87.5%
>1881: 93.3%
>1884: 95.9%
>1887: 92.2%
>1890: 56.6% (but 10.9% for SPD which was anti-German Empire and whose local section was pro-French)
>1893: 47.7% (19.3% for SPD)
>1898: 46.9% (22.7% for SPD)
>1903: 36.1% (24.2% for SPD, 7.1% for Zentrum which was also anti-German Empire and locally pro-French)
>1907: 30.2% (23.7% SPD, 31.1% Z)
>1912: 46.5% (31.8% SPD, 5.4% Z)

In every election, most Alsatians voted for anti-German, pro-French parties.
>inb4 b...b...but they spoke German!

>unironically writing HRE jurisdiction as if it means something
>unironically believing HRE is Germany

>In every election
>ceased to be the after 1893
>in every election
Pierre pls

Are you illiterate? The local SPD and Zentrum were pro-French

The SPD and Zentrum were not pro-French. Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

The national parties weren't, no. But there local sections were. In 1918, an SPD Reichstag representative for Colmar, Jacques Peirotes, announced the establishment of French rule, urging Paris to send troops quickly

which part contradicts nationalism and history?

tell me so i can BFTO you to oblivion

>Wallonia part of the Netherlands
>Finland and the Baltic States part of Sweden
>Norway, Iceland, Scania part of Denmark
>Republic of Ireland part of UK
>bunch of Belorussian and Ukrainian lands part of Poland
>bunch of non-Hungarian territories like most of Northern Transylvania and Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia part of Hungary
>Western Anatolia, Istanbul part of Greece
>retarded flags (monarchies, I'm guessing)

And yes, everyone realizes that these things were all true at some point in history. That doesn't make it any less stupid.

>BTFO you to oblivion
Only autists say cringe-worthy shit like this, tough guy. That or you're a tween, in which case you have to be 18 to post here.

>>Wallonia part of the Netherlands
As it always was. True it's ethnic french, but the main reason i left it in the Netherlands is because the borders would be ugly as fuck otherwise, to be honest with you.

>>Finland and the Baltic States part of Sweden
what is swedish empire?

>>Norway, Iceland, Scania part of Denmark
what is denmark-norway?

>>Republic of Ireland part of UK
i don't see a problem here, (it's kingdom of ireland in my map btw)

>>bunch of Belorussian and Ukrainian lands part of Poland
PLC

tbqh they could go to Russia too, but many Ukies and Belarussian nationalists would prefer PLC, so it's not problematic(belarusians even consider themselves "lithuanians")

>>bunch of non-Hungarian territories like most of Northern Transylvania and Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia part of Hungary
these lands are stolen from hungary. all of transylvania should be hungarian, but considering romanias interests too transylvania is divided between the two(just like hitler did)

>>Western Anatolia, Istanbul part of Greece
look up megali idea

>>retarded flags (monarchies, I'm guessing)
the flags are literally perfect

Everyone has heard of the Swedish Empire, Denmark-Norway, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Second Vienna Award, and the Megali Idea. None of that makes the map any less dumb.

>Everyone has heard of the Swedish Empire, Denmark-Norway, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Second Vienna Award, and the Megali Idea.
All good things that should be revived

>None of that makes the map any less dumb.
you still haven't came up with a good argument why

>random shit that existed hundreds of years ago that no one today wants should be revived because I say so
It's autism.

>random

as i said

t. zero knowledge of European history and nationalism

we're done here

>I have no arguments so I'll just declare the debate over

t. autist

Why are the Germans so butthurt over a region they stole only 40 years before losing it and that never even wanted to be part of Germany?

They thought "national liberation" extended to them. They didn't realize it was just a self-serving lie for France and the UK.

Forcing people who don't want to be part of your country to be part of it is truly liberation.

It is when it's done by the cool people, like the French Republic in the Vendee or the Italians in the former Kingdom of the Two Sicilies.

>national liberation
>self-serving for France and the UK

Yeah national liberation was definitely beneficial for the two largest colonial powers yeah yeah totally

>the Vendee didn't want to be part of France
Top kek, do people actually believe this?

During the XIXth century France and the United Kingdom supported national liberation in order to break down the monarchical powers of Europe. See British support for Mazzini and Garibaldi, Napoleon III support for Italian unification, Lajos Kossuth and other revolutionaries of 1848 in Austria exile in Great Britain, etc.

You just cherrypicked a couple of instances where they happened to support national liberation during the 19th century, but there was not consistent policy. Britain supported the maintenance of the Ottoman Empire for most the 19th century, and thus opposed the national movements in the Balkans, for instance. They certainly never declared their support for national liberation as a principle until the Americans forced them to in 1917.

The exception is France under Napoleon III, which did give lip-service to the idea, but really acted opportunistically. That was only 1848 to 1870 though.

lol wtf, the Vendée is the Frenchest part of France.

I took the care of saying "French Republic" because the French Republic ≠ France.

So basically your comment was totally irrelevant, because it's an entirely different issue?
>not wanting to be part of a country
>wanting your country to have a different form of government
Not even remotely the same thing

lol no, actual nations that aren't complete non-countries don't change identities with every new government.

>all this butthurt
GERMS ON SUICIDE WATCH HAHAHAHA

All this clair but no the naturaliste french border.
You are Plèbe as fuck.

>kid wearing a metal

fucking STOLEN VALOR

You got BTFO'd by him due to your lack of historical knowledge, and he's the fag for not wanting to put up with your whining? Only on Veeky Forums

Obvious samefag. Really shameless, you should re-evaluate your life user

>Alsace was french before german identity
German identity was already a thing in the Middle Ages you memer. There are patriotic poems from that era.

Source? I want to read it.

>denmark-norway
>danish schweig-holstein
>british ireland
>switzerland exists
>swedish balts
>polish corridor
>russian ukraine
>yugoslavia exists
It's shit.

it's a proof corsica is french now

French etnocide of any other culture is one of the best exemple of working multiculturalism.

>And many Czechs, Slovaks and Poles voted to remain German after WWI

"Citation needed" and no, Volksdeutsche don't count.

Who's the say that the votes weren't rigged?

In that case, Gdansk should be Polish.

>implying there's literally anything wrong with that
french culture deserves to dominate the surrounding """""""cultures""""""

cringe
this is what happens when /gsg/ nerds think paradox=history