Be Catholic

A Christian can pray to God for someone else to have an encounter with God. I usually pray for people to have a clear space around them, spiritually, so that they can think properly.

No Christian goes to hell.

We came up with some fresh bullshit called Intercession. You're praying through who the figure the statue represents, not to it.

>believing a Popsicle is the Messiah
>believing he was actually G_d the whole time too
L e l

There are certain demonic Marian apparitions that cause idols to weep blood, or bleed, or show wounds, etc. The "faithful" catholics consider them to be messages from Mary, and make an effort to go see them for themselves. Spiritual tourists, as it were.

It is litterally the same as what this guy is doing, only its asking someone who is in heaven to also pray for whatever it is you need.

>>Be Catholic
>get decimated by one man
youtube.com/watch?v=1sOXVt2guro
How can they recover? they stop debating him and created their own safe-space. HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Asking someone who is in heaven is not the same as asking God.

See, people in heaven are not God, and cannot hear you.

If you knew anything about the messianic prophecies, especially Daniel, you would know that either Jesus is the messiah, or there is no messiah.

>Asking someone who is in heaven is not the same as asking God.

But they can ask God for you.

> cannot hear you.

>> cannot hear you.
>

Not that faggot but if the people in heaven can hear your prayers, then time must exist in heaven. If time exists in heaven, then an ETERNITY there is not a reward, it's the most horrific and unimaginable horror possible.

There are no people in Heaven, save perhaps for one exception, Enoch.

The Bible explicitly describes death as being like sleep, a state of non consciousness. A total lack of awareness. Upon Judgement Day, then all those souls will be resurrected and given new bodies.

That's why God warns you away from spirits and shit like that. Because human souls don't linger anywhere after death. When Saul sought out a medium to talk to Samuel, Samuel apparently appeared and told Saul that he would fail. Most scholars theorize however that this was just a demon.

>
A Christian can pray to God for someone else to have an encounter with God. I usually pray for people to have a clear space around them, spiritually, so that they can think properly.
So you believe you yourself are a God? Are all protestants gods, or just you?

>be balkan kul
>ignore Ottoman sunnism
>suprised you end up in debt and the shittiest part of Europe

...

Heaven is temporary anyway. It will pass away along with the earth after the Day of Judgement when the New Earth is created.

>The Bible explicitly describes death as being like sleep, a state of non consciousness. A total lack of awareness.

And on New Earth, does the whole cycle start over again?

bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-does-bible-say-about-death

Meant for

Idolatry refers to literally worshiping the item/statue.

"this monkeys paw has magical properties, i'll worship it" is not the same as "this statue represents my savior, i'll worship him through it"

Protestant fundamentalism is ACTUAL idolatry, you're worshiping a literal narrative instead of the deeper spiritual meaning behind it. Fundamentalism is basically materialist superstition. The deeper aspects of Christianity (what it's actually about) are cut out entirely.

No, since Satan, Hades and everyone not in lockstep with God's will is thrown into the lake of fire, so there's nothing to mess it up again.

>Frog Posting Protestant.
Get off the internet.

Listen to this faggyboy. "N-no... it's not literal y'see the whole Bible is a mushroom trip b-b-but it still teaches some good lessons... heh heh..."

Then why didn't god just do that this time around?

Everyone in the Bosom of Abraham (where Enoch was) went to heaven when Jesus rose from the dead.

He who descended also ascended, and freed the captives. Ephesians 4 iirc.

That just gives some Jewish poetry as an example of the dead sleeping.

Necromancy. Speaking with the dead. Forbidden by God.

The fact that you don't think you can talk to God directly should indicate even to you that you have no relationship with Him.

You'd think, huh?

The bible actually says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Seminary students. Not even once. Your own example proved your theory wrong.

>the bible can only be one thing

The bible would be pointless if it were simply a historical narrative. Fundamentalists are the reason modern people can't take religion seriously.

>Necromancy. Speaking with the dead. Forbidden by God.

I am an adopted son of God.

Whose son are you?

Why post the same pic with the same filename for months? Don't you know variation?

The old heavens will pass away, and be replaced with a new heaven, and a new earth.

Because when satan is freed after a thousand years, there are enough people to go to war with Jesus as there are grains of sand. That will be the final purge. The final failures.

Mankind is broken; the old excuse "the devil made me do it" is irretrievably broken.

So New Earth will basically be a fully deterministic, fully mechanical version of old Earth, without any free will, and change, and any randomness?

Basically, New Earth, if I understand it correctly, is like old Earth, except with all the unexpected, random parts of life removed completely? And you actually want to live in this world, a world that's basically like a job in a factory, except forever, with zero variation forever?

Catholishits either think they can't be heard directly by God, or else think that Mary has a more favorable opinion of them. (Maybe papists believe that Mary is more merciful than God?)

Both ideas are ludicrous.

>the dead cant hear you
>speaking to the dead is forbidden

Which is it?

Deuteronomy 18:9-12

Avoid Wicked Customs
9 “When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire (Molech), or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.

It is forbidden, and it doesn't work. So, both.

By attempting it, you open yourself to demonic delusions.

>Mankind is broken; the old excuse "the devil made me do it" is irretrievably broken.

Well obviously, the devil didn't create me,god did. That means my brokeness is god's fault, not the devils.

>Because when satan is freed after a thousand years, there are enough people to go to war with Jesus as there are grains of sand. That will be the final purge. The final failures.

Okay but why? What possible reason does god have not to just fling the devil into hell now, given that he knows that he will do so after this final battle. Who the fuck is he trying to impress?

Basically. Free Will is evil if you actually use it, so paradise is not having it after you've proven you can resist the temptation to use it.

In this case, the "job" is just praising God, for eternity, which is still probably better than getting burnt for the same amount of time.

Momma's boys, the lot of them. Even the mafioso.

So none of that applies to christians, since Jesus fulfilled the old laws?

Your brokenness is Adam's fault.

Your refusal to consent to the fix is your fault.

The devil exists to give you an apparently viable alternative to worshiping God.

The exercise of your free will requires options in order to be meaningful.

>Your brokenness is Adam's fault.

Well he's a myth so I'm not sure how that works. Also, why would god punish me for my ancestor's mistakes? Isn't that evil?

We are dead to the law.

I don't know of any Christians who would want to be an abomination before their savior.

Adam is as mythical as you are. He's your ancestor.

So god let's the devil trick people into worshipping him so he can burn them in hell forever? Why?

>The exercise of your free will requires options in order to be meaningful.

We don't have options tho, we're wholly constrained by our circumstances and one of the "options" is actually just god playing a cruel trick on us.

You're thiking in terms the devil wants you to think; crime and punishment.

The crimes have already been paid for. What we're dealing with now is life and death.

Because Adam died, spiritually, and lost the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, you were born dead, spiritually, and do not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in you.

Christians do.

It's what we call being "born again"; once in water, from your mother, and once in the Spirit.

If you knew anything about prophecy, you'd know that Daniel isn't a prophet, as he needs an angel to explain his visions to him. See, for example, Daniel 8:15-16.

People deceive themselves, believe who they want to, and act as they choose.

Why you want to blame all of that on God and the devil is ponderous. Have you no responsibility for yourself?

Yeah no, genesis is a fairy tale based on Sumerian mythology. If you don't worship Anu or Ishtar then why would you accept their myths as true?

>I don't know of any Christians who would want to be an abomination before their savior.

But if he fulfilled the law (which is why christians don't keep kosher, among other things) then the injunction against necromancy doesn't apply anymore. You can't have it both ways, you can't claim that SOME of the old law still applies, just not the bits that would inconvenience you.

That's the lie of the Jews in order to persuade people not to study the prophecies of Daniel. A prophet receives a message from God and tells the people; angels are messengers and are often used in connection with prophecy.

You cannot ignore Daniel away. Just because the Jews didn't put him with the prophets of his very same day does not mean he is not a prophet.

It means that the 70 week prophecy is so clearly timed for the Messiah to enter into Jerusalem on Nisan 10, 32 AD that Jesus absolutely must be the messiah.

483 years from the day Artaxerxes proclaimed that the temple was to be rebuilt, to the day, the messiah came onto the scene, and died not for himself, but for his people.

483 years, to the day, prophesied by Daniel. Not only a prophet of God, but elevated in Babylon to head of the college of magi.

You can dress it up however you like, the fact remains that you claim god will burn me forever for something my distant ancestor did.

>God is carrying you in his pocket
>"yay I'm in a state of everlasting joy!"

There's a problem here. Can you tell what it is?.

The Sumerians descended from Cain.

I don't find the way of Cain to be profitable.

I prefer Seth, and Moses, and Jesus.

Im not even papist
Catholicism is the hallmark of christian power and thus is useful and neccesary for a strong religion.

Orthodoxy got cucked
Protestantism is being cucked
Now all we need to do is get a pope who is the correct and rightous pope who will save christianity from the tides of islam

The law is not dead.

Christians are dead to the law.

Fulfilling the law did not make sin go away; it fulfilled the law. Both ways. Jesus obeyed the law, perfectly, and then Jesus paid the penalty for breaking the law not for himself, but for all of us.

Jesus fulfilled the law both ways, and by dying in him, you are dead to the law. And the law does not chase dead men.

I could attempt to speak to the dead, but again, why would I want to so offend my Lord? He has made it quite clear doing so is a wicked abomination before him.

>Why you want to blame all of that on God

Because he created me as I am, knowing ahead of time that I wouldn't be impressed by the specious claims of christians and so end up burning forever? He /could/ have made me as dumb as you are and so assured of salvation, but he chose not to. I didn't have any part in this, and nor did the devil, it was ALL god's will.

>Have you no responsibility for yourself?

That's fucking rich coming from someone who believes in the detestable creed that someone else can accept punishment for your sins.

The old law had it's uses other than simply being a sign between God and his people. Pork for example is loaded with carcinogens. So now you are indeed free to eat it if you want, but it's still a good idea not to. Similarly with mediumship. You are not talking to the souls of deceased humans. You're talking to demons. Now, you are free to, if you want... but it's a bad idea.

Okay, then don't cite Sumerian myths as support of your claims, it's absurd.

Your ancestor did not force you to not believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

You're doing that on your own.

Your Unbelief is your own, and that is the unpardonable (and unpardoned) sin.

Yes. People make absurd strawmen arguments and think they're discussing things with people.

Hard to argue with quads, but how do you know that He does not know you will be saved today?

>waah God is punishing me becoz Adam ate a stupid apple

13 year old fedora detected.

>I could attempt to speak to the dead, but again, why would I want to so offend my Lord? He has made it quite clear doing so is a wicked abomination before him.

Okay but you can't then claim that necromancy or demon summoning are forbidden or even sinful, since it's part of the "dead law". It might offend god, but according to your own doctrines it won't affect your chances of getting into heaven.

>detestable

Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for another, but who would do this? Maybe for a good man, another might lay down his life. But Jesus lay down his life for all of us while we were yet sinners.

He's already proven he loves you, and he will in no wise cast you out, should you call upon his name to be saved.

>You're doing that on your own

Nope, god did that when he made my brain the way it is.

I'm citing the written tradition of men from Adam to Moses, as inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.

You brought up extra-biblical writings, most of which are far less dependable than the bible so as to not even be comparable.

Because he's omniscient, so he knows who will and who wont be saved before he created them. And then he created the unsaved anyway, simply for the pleasure of burning them. You know what he could have done instead? NOT created the unbelievers.

When your brain sees fossilized sea life on top of mountains, what does it think? Why not actually look up the evidence for God instead of crying about how God made you a weakling.

We're talking past each other.

The law stands. Necromancy is forbidden. Each and every act of necromancy was paid for on the cross by Christ Jesus, who never committed such a foul abomination.

As I am in Christ Jesus, I died with him, and I rose with him, and I am dead to the law.

The law was never meant to save anyone; no laws save anyone. They're the laws of sin and death: sin, and die. The law stirs up sins in people, and give the devil his power.

>lay down his life for another

Sure that's commendable. But to take on the sins of another? That's a vile doctrine that denies personal responsibility and makes a mockery of any supposed free will.

Good goy

If you murdered someone, they caught you, and put you on trial, how good a defense would blaming the judge for killing the man be?

Maybe it's time to grow up a bit?

>When your brain sees fossilized sea life on top of mountains, what does it think?
That plate tectonics are pretty well understood.

>When your brain sees fossilized sea life on top of mountains, what does it think?

Plate tectonics.

>Why not actually look up the evidence for God

I have. there isn't any.

Mankind was created as free will moral agents.

You cannot create free will moral agents and program them all for success.

Create your own universe and make your own rules, and then you can kibitz on God's.

Did the judge create me? Is he all-powerful, all-good and omniscient? No? Then it's a pretty poor analogy, don't you think?

There's a link you're missing.

All sins are sins against God. God forgave all of the sins committed against him.

But he will not force you to believe that; he will not force you to love him, or what would be the point of life itself?

>Mankind was created as free will moral agents.

No, we weren't. None of us is free, we're wholly constrained by the circumstances of our lives and our neurochemistry.

God is the judge of the universe. You will stand trial before him, condemned already by unbelief.

Your plan is to blame him for creating you.

I am advising that you change plans, and get an attorney (Jesus) stat.

>But he will not force you to believe that;

But he WILL burn me forever for failing to do so? You know what a loving parent would do? He'd start by not creating a lake of fire to throw disobedient children into.

You're adorable. Wrong, but adorable. I would recommend A Guide to the Perplexed. It would help you out a lot. But there's a reason that Daniel was put into the Ketuvim section and not the Naviim section. You might want to think about that.

>A prophet receives a message from God and tells the people; angels are messengers and are often used in connection with prophecy.

It's actually quite a bit more than that. A prophet receives a direct contact from God and relates that authority to other people. With the exception of Moses, it came only in a specific mental state, one not at all easy to achieve.

Angels were NOT prophetic at all, and in fact often used to relay important messages when someone was incapable of achieving the proper prophetic trance; probably the most salient example is when Abraham is told not to sacrifice Isaac, not by God directly, but by an angel.

>You cannot ignore Daniel away. Just because the Jews didn't put him with the prophets of his very same day does not mean he is not a prophet.

I can, and do. He's not a prophet. There are interesting things in his book, but they're not prophecy.

You are free to believe whatever you want, but you are not free from the consequences of such beliefs.

God says choose.

You have a choice.

You live in medieval times. You ambush the prince, the only prince, and murder him. Then you go to the castle, and tell the king you murdered his only heir, and ask which bedroom is yours.

How well do you think you will be treated?

Your analogy is shit, god isn't a judge he's a creator. He knew BEFORE HE CREATED ME what I would "freely choose" to do, in what sense is it just to judge someone in such a circumstance? God is literally the only one who could have done otherwise, he's the only one with actual free will.