Buying a Golf GTI, got a deal on one with the sport package (limited slip, big brakes) for $23,999

Ask any tow truck driver their opinion of VW

>Why do slicks matter?
If you can't hook up the power it's not that hard on the tranny or rods, the tires just spin.

When you start hooking hard you are pushing 400lbs of torque through the engine and drive train and having great resistance.

It's like punching a cardboard box as hard as you can vs punching a refrigerator as hard as you can

They are running 12.8 on street tires

>I don't know how a dyno works
the post

>cognitive dissonance

>>cognitive dissonance
The fact they have been in business for years and people have been running their tunes for years without issue is cognitive dissonance?

i don't think you know what that means

goaprplus.com/

and?

gti owner: the post

>stock hp 235
nigga in what world? it's 210, really loving these inflated numbers

>and?
And if they were bullshitting people with fake dyno runs the a fwd fucking hatch would not be running 12s are you dense?

That's at the crank, car manufacturers list wheel hp

did you really not know that?

dynos are based on wheel hp

did you really not know that?

apr 'calculates' chp based off their dyno figures, which is what that chart is. they have their own proprietary equation for how they do this too according to their forum reps. go to their site and see for yourself:

goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html

>car manufacturers list wheel hp
they absolutely do not do that.

Yes they are massivly strong units.

>they absolutely do not do that.
actually, i take that back. i just checked their site and vw does seem to do this. then i checked some other car manufacture sites and some do, some dont (bmw is whp, and audi is chp oddly enough). i could have sworn everyone used to use chp when advertising but i havent been in the market for a new car in quite a while. did things change recently? some kind of false advertising laws/lawsuits?

it's a nice misleading chart then, I also went back and saw it had a downpipe and intake to help fuel it's "gap". I understand you need the proper parts to run different stages but it's just a bit stupid to me

no nothing changed it's just because it's retarded to ever use chp in any reference, why the fuck would I care about crank when all I wanna know is how much power is touching the pavement

>car manufacturers list wheel hp
Nope they quote crank numbers because they are higher.

Probably because no one quotes whp. It gets worse with septics who quote gross crank power with all other loads removed.

my unit is massive and strong as well

apr are total shitbags when it comes to that stuff. they always qualify the advertised performance of their tunes by saying something like 'we only guarantee these power figures if you also buy our $1000 plastic intake, $2000 ultra perfect fitment downpipe, and $4500 ngk AHEM proprietary custom APR top secret spark plugs'. all three of which give you MAYBE an extra 1.5 hp over the 100 hp the tune alone gives you. it's just a way for them to weasel more of your money out of you, just like the best buy sales rep saying you wont get the most out of your new tv unless you buy their monster cables made out of fucking neodymium and moon dust.

its not retarded to be honest, its actually the only way that really makes sense. whp is affected by so many variables, while chp will be much more consistent since itll be done in controlled conditions on an engine dyno with fewer to zero variables. in fact, looking into it more i may have been right originally, with car manufacturers still listing 'chp', but underrating it, so it actually looks more in line with whp figures.

in the end it's all a crapshoot. just ignore it and stick to tested 0-60, 1/4 mile, and other performance times done by car and driver and road and track and the like. or i dont know, actually drive one.

>>car manufacturers list wheel hp
>they absolutely do not do that.
yes they do, VW does, chevy does jesus are you are you all noobs?

way to make a firm categorical statement about something you know nothing about though

>no nothing changed it's just because it's retarded to ever use chp in any reference,

No it's not, not when selling crate performance engines for instance. The tranny you put behind the engine will determine how much whp you make and it varys by how efficient the tranny is

>Nope they quote crank numbers because they are higher.
just state falsehoods and don't bother ever looking anything up

>apr are total shitbags when it comes to that stuff. they always qualify the advertised performance of their tunes by saying something like 'we only guarantee these power figures if you also buy our $1000 plastic intake, $2000 ultra perfect fitment downpipe
what's wrong with that? superchargers are the same way you make more horsepower with headers/

also the APR tune with the downpipe all in with labor is less than two grand and you have 350hp and 400ftlbs

>dynos are based on wheel hp
APR has the wheel horsepower dyno on their page for the tunes they provide

For $2000 they will turn your GTI into a 12 second quarter mile car

what assholes

that's partly why Mazda went with Forged rods, pistons, and camshaft in the current 2.0l. they can tune the high compression motor for torque in the economy cars, or support future Mazdaspeed models without making new internals.

say goodbye to your clutch

If you just drive the car around town and get on it sometimes when you have the onramp free or nobody is around and just enjoy the torque when passing and merging it will probably live.

If you start going to track days or doing drag racing on the weekends shit is eventually going to break

they are getting like 170hp per liter out of that thing on 93 octane, that's wild

>way to make a firm categorical statement about something you know nothing about though
lol, the nerd rage made it all worth it.

>what's wrong with that?
the fact that you dont need those parts to make that power. i get the concept of supporting mods, but aftermarket downpipes and airboxes on gen 2 and 3 ea888 2.0t motors offer zero gains over stock. the gains are in the air filter, hfc, and tune.

the point is, the only relevant part is the tune. the downpipe offers nothing. you'll run the same times with or without the dp, except with the dp youll spend twice as much and your car will sound like a lawnmower. or you could save the money and buy something that will actually help you, like a bigger intercooler, stickier tires, or put it towards a turbo upgrade.

>the fact that you dont need those parts to make that power. i get the concept of supporting mods, but aftermarket downpipes and airboxes on gen 2 and 3 ea888 2.0t motors offer zero gains over stock. the gains are in the air filter, hfc, and tune.

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one, I have kept up with this scene and many many people have posted their dynos and quarter mile time before and after getting down pipes and they always make good gains

>lol, the nerd rage made it all worth it.
didn't see any rage, just you being wrong and assertive about it

yeah, im in the 'scene' if you want to call it that. the fastest gen 2 ea888 a4 on pump gas is running stock intake manifold, stock air box, and stock catback exhaust.

these cars all use pid tuning and will gain very little if anything from 'free flowing' intake and exhaust. the exhaust restriction in these is in the cat which is directly post-turbo, and the intake restrictions will be 99% mitigated by an aftermarket filter and inlet pipe. the air box itself is useless.

and then admitting i was wrong in the very next post..

i just love when people go off on the ol 'talking about things u know nothing about' rants. i imagine how good they must feel while they type that and cant help but laugh.

>these cars all use pid tuning and will gain very little if anything from 'free flowing' intake and exhaust

The downpipe aids in pushing air to the turbo, it has nothing to do with "free flowing exhaust"

Many people have done before and after dyno pulls with a larger downpipe and added significant horsepower

look it up, you are simply wrong

look up what pid tuning is before you reply again pls.

>look up what pid tuning is before you reply again pls.
I know what it is, I also know a downpipe can let you run a more aggressive tune due to more boost and this has been proven

why you are trying to say a larger downpipe is worthless i can't imagine because there is so much evidence out there to the contrary

okay, when you say 'downpipe', are you referring to just the piece of straightpipe that bolts onto the turbo, or are you also referring to the hfc and downpipe as an assembly? reading this post i get the feeling we're arguing the same thing and are just confused. because APR markets their 'downpipe' as a dp/hfc unit/assembly, so people often say theyre upgrading their downpipe when theyre really upgrading both. replacing a stock cat and dp with an aftermarket hfc and dp assembly will absolutely allow you to run a more aggressive tune over stock. but it's because of the hfc, not the dp.

I just don't see why people have such hate for APR, they have a warranty tune that gets you +50hp and they warranty the drivetrain for 5 years so you don't have to be worried about modding a new car. And it's fairly cheap

they also have crazy tunes for reasonable prices, for less than a thousand dollars they can add 100ftlbs and 80hp and a proven track record of keeping the car streetable

what is the problem

goaprplus.com/#golf_gti

Don't you miss the days when German engineered shit was built to last?

i dont hate them personally, i like like getting good value for my money. i spent half the money of a k04 plus boxed tune on eurodyne and an F23L, run faster times than any K04 on pump and can edit maps and flash my own tunes at will. if you dont like fucking with shit then sure, go with the apple of the vw/audi car mod world. theyre great. youll likely never have an issue with their shit. their tunes are safe and their customer support is good. theyre the most popular tuner for these cars for a reason.

I would go with APR if my car was brand new, I don't mind fucking with a 2002 camaro myself but I don't think I would try to get 400ft/lbs out of brand new GTI myself to save a few hundred bucks when I could have a professional do it.

then you're exactly who they market their tunes to, and you'll be perfectly happy with what they have to offer. buy one, have the professionals put it on, and enjoy. cheers.

Honestly I think I am just going to go with just the tune. That's 300hp and 380ft/lbs of torque without even adding or removing parts. But this is going to be a daily driver.

When the car gets older I might get stupid with it but you can't beat $700 for that kind of gain.

Anyway if I really wanted a sports car i would have bought a used vette for the same money and had rwd

you don't have to justify anything to me, friend.

I'm not

I am just wondering if I can really daily drive a 400ft/lb car without fucking up the tranny or bending rods.

and I don't really think it's a super great idea

In my search I found a guy selling a GTI on ebay who blew the engine and somehow got VW to replace it, he was advertising it as a plus that the motor only had 5k miles on it, but the car had 40k.

god knows how ragged out that drivetrain is

what happens when a fwd car loses traction when going from a start?

Does it become completely uncontrollable?

>what happens when a fwd car loses traction when going from a start?
>Does it become completely uncontrollable?
I would think so

i mean how could you steer?