Itt: cars from regular brands that were ahead of their time

>itt: cars from regular brands that were ahead of their time

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>vws with leather
>regular brand
come on, it may not be luxury but it's certainly premium

/comfy/
90s/2000s Renault interiors were God tier

>it's a my car speaks to me with a french female voice episode

>it's a normies hear me calling my car "Claire" as I caress her episode
youtube.com/watch?v=Iyak6RybdEY

as always this thread will turn into "I like this car"

>French electronics

>mfw

>even daring to keep the car in 2017
only a complete madman would do this which is almost admirable again

>implying
I drive a Laguna like the one in the OP, no issues. Enjoy your pushrods and autotragics.

I know a guy who keeps a Laguna inside a shipping container in 99% humidity and everything works on it

1964 Thunderbird: ac, heater, fans, radio, power windows. good interior styling.

no cup holder, but it prevents your friends and whores from bringing drinks in your car and making a mess.

>thinking automatic climate control is a groundbreaking thing
Nigger, Caddy was already doing it in 1964.
automotivemileposts.com/autobrevity/atc.html
acprocold.com/blog/evolution-auto-air-conditioning/
Wew lad, why would he subject the car to such abuse? Anyhow, the ones to watch out for aren't the French cars in those years (although the Laguna II Phase 1, that is 2002-2006, is dreadful in the electronics department). The 1992-1996 Mercedes-Benz cars are what to watch out in the 90s. Whole harnesses that rot away.

I drive a 2002 Clio 172 and there has only been one electrical fault in my entire ownership (since 2008).

The connections in the driver tail light were a bit corroded. Easy fix.
Now the mechanical problems are a whole other story :^)

>Laguna inside a shipping container in 99% humidity

I have a slight feeling he was originally aiming for a different kind

Audi is a regular car and has been in europe for decades, the A2 was revolutionary and looked batshit insane when new

>1964 Thunderbird
hot damn, what a beauty
just now America seems to be returning to the quality of the golden days. The Cadillac CT6 looks amazing. But I don't think we'll see Ford launch any high quality product that isn't under the Lincoln marque any soon.
First of all, that's a luxury car. From the era when Cadillac was able to compete with virtually any luxury brand in the world. Secondly, it's automatic but not digital. Third, rather than just one feature, my OP pointed to the whole thing. You could get 4 airbags, the car came with steering wheel stereo controls, it has an on-board computer, it talks to inform you of errors or things like leaving the lights on after exiting or not putting your seatbelt on, it increases the volume with the engine RPM, there was an optional cruise control, the whole design is ergonomic and doesn't feel dated even if it wouldn't pass for a brand new car. The systems in it are more sophisticated than the average brand new shitbox today.
Sure, it doesn't have obnoxious blue lights or LCD touchscreens everywhere, but it's pretty fucking advanced. You could say they were already doing most of that with the R25 but the ergonomics wasn't as advanced. Still the R21, R25, Laguna and Safrane look advanced in comparison with the contemporary Mercedes range.
I don't know why Americans insist on the bad French electronics meme. Maybe the 70s ones were bad? About the mechanics, was it well maintained? Peugeots are notoriously worse when it comes to breaking down.
kek

It's common but not regular. You think I don't speak to yuros all the time? It's premium. Regular cars are VW, Seat, Škoda.

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Does getting copied by everyone and setting a trend count as "being ahead of time"?

No really, we don't have premium in terms of brand here like you do, we have Audis, BMWs and Mercedes being used as taxis all the time.

No one sees an Audi A2 as premium, it's just another small hatchback, we go strictly by model.

The A2 stopped being made like 12 years ago. You don't see the A4 as a premium sedan? Because the pricing says otherwise.

If it does there's plenty of models to post, basically any groundbreaking model

>A1 starting at 16k€
>A3 starting at 23k€
>A4 starting at 32k€
that's not premium user

No, if I call a minicab the guy will probably come in an A4, 5 Series or E class.

A4 isn't even in the same class as the 5 series and E class, it's would be in the realm of regular family car like a 3 series, Passat or C class, all cars that are fairly common as company fleet cars.

If you want a premium car here you buy an S class, Jaguar or a higher end BMW. Audis have always been regular family cars.

Actually I was going for "models that had features that were uncommon at their time outside of luxury vehicles and years later became common". The Laguna had many amenities that just started to become commonplace recently.

>32k yuromoni
>not premium
Really?

if it's not premium, what do people pay the extra 5k over a Passat for? With premium, you expect higher quality, better materials, etc. Luxury is more about the exclusivity. People buying a Rolls Royce or a Maybach are looking to be in that select club. It doesn't matter if the cars aren't the best in every regard, the exclusivity is what counts. With luxury brands, the features of the product aren't proportional to the price, you pay much more. The price is used as a barrier.

>Full aluminium chassis
>Regular

>16k for a polo

Is that a first gen megane? I was surprised to know they had tire pressure control.

>shitbox, VW up! value, Golf 10-20k€
>middle class, A4 20-40k€
>premium, A6 40-80k€
>luxury, A8 80-160k€
>exotic, R8 >160k€
that's how I (germanon) would classify different price levels for new cars
I'd be happy to see your version

>shitbox, VW up!

nope, that's a Laguna
I'm surprised to hear that too user
where's the Passat? Face it, people pay extra for an Audi because it signals higher status. Specially where debadging is the norm so it becomes harder to distiguish the trim levels. Why else would someone buy a base A4 over a loaded Passat?

>where's the Passat?
in the same class as the A4 obviously since they are so close in price (20% difference)
>Why else would someone buy a base A4 over a loaded Passat?
because they value brand name and design over the larger engine and amenities you get in the loaded passat
That doesn't warrant putting the A4 in another class though

You generally see more A4s than Passats and Octavias because they are available new on cheap lease deals. The days of Audi / BMW / Mercedes being premium brands (the normal ones at least, 3 series etc) are long gone. An Audi A4 is just a normal car here, nothing special. Do remember that they do them with shitty 1.6 diesel engines for the ubiquitous PCP special

I just confirmed it: In Spain, the absolute base model A4 (and by absolute base I mean it's black, because white or metallic already adds more money) is over 34k (34.310,00 EUR). With a 2.0 TDI 6 speed 90 kW (122 CV). 34.720,00 EUR gets you a Passat R-Line Exclusive with a 2.0 TDI 6 speed 110 kW (150 CV). Among other things, the Passat R-Line includes rear window tint, navigation, 3-zone climate control, LED headlights (although I'd rather have the HIDs like in the Audi), 17' wheels (the Audi comes with 15'), full size alloy spare (as opposed to reduced size steel on the Audi), heated mirrors, phone interface, etc.
Both cars have fabric seats, so it's not even a VW with leather, it's just the pic in .

>because they value brand name and design
hence premium
premium doesn't mean exclusive, you're confusing premium with luxury. Premium means more expensive while offering something to justify the extra expense. Luxury means price-benefit has long lost its proportionality. Is a Rolls Royce Phantom worth two and a half Mercedes-Benz S600 Maybachs? It is, but not because of being 2.5 times better in terms of quality or appointments. It's worth that because customers are willing to pay extra greens for the sheer exclusivity.

My point was that in Europe, cars like that are everywhere and not really seen as a premium / luxury vehicle. They are very accessible thanks to lease deals.

Also I do see where you are coming from with the list prices, but no one actually pays that for them. They pay £200 a month for 36 months then they give it back and get another brand new one. It was like everyone losing their shit over the Golf R being £42k, yet you could lease it for £199 a month with a very small deposit so no on actually paid £42k for one.

so if you consider the A4 a premium car how would you categorize an A6?

>the absolute base model A4
>is over 34k (34.310,00 EUR). With a 2.0 TDI 6 speed 90 kW
the absolute base model is a 1.4l, 110kw gas engine at 31.650€
the base Passat also has a 1.4l gas engine with only 92kw for 26.750€
so you are paying 18% more for a slightly better version of the same car
so you could argue relatively that an A4 is a premium Passat
but it certainly isn't a premium car absolutely

Audi is premium as a whole. Premium is something that is a bit better than the basic product and a bit more expensive. It often also carries more prestige. The A6 is just a higher segment.
That's irrelevant to the discussion though. Is Apple not premium just because anyone can get an iPhone and having one doesn't make you rich?
In each segment you have basic cars and premium cars.
D segment basic cars: Citroën C5, Peugeot 508, Renault Talisman, Volkswagen Passat, Mazda 6, Škoda Superb, Ford Mondeo, Honda Accord
D segment premium cars: Alfa Romeo Giulia, DS5, BMW 3er, Mercedes-Benz C-Llasse, Audi A4, Jaguar XE

Usually the premium cars are designed "compact executive cars" and the non-premium ones "large family cars".
>the absolute base model is a 1.4l, 110kw gas engine at 31.650€
Not available in Spain, there the base model is the 2.0 TDI.
>so you could argue relatively that an A4 is a premium Passat
>but it certainly isn't a premium car absolutely
People are paying extra to enhance the same experience. It's the very definition of a premium product.

>...but the ergonomics weren't so advanced.
Fucking this.
Late 80s-early 90s renaults had lots of technical novelties for its class/price.

R25 had all the equipment a mercedes could have...and more. R21 offered a lot of equipment (and electronic injection) for a very competitive price...

But man ergonomics were fucked up until the R[number] models ended.

>Radio is installed far down.
>Switches (for fog lights, heated rear window, hazard lights...) are too far behind the steering wheel to reach without leaning forward
>Power windows switches for the front doors are down beside the door "pouch", instead of near the door armrests.
>Rear power windows switches are not in the doors, but in the backside of the center console, so you have to lean to reach them. And lets not talk about operating them from the front... (there are no rear windows switches in the front).

It is as if the designers didn't think beyond the very basic parts of driving, because all other things (shift knob, steering wheel, pedals, seats...) are very comfortable

I feel like you are going into way too much detail with your classification
let's see your version of >shitbox, VW up! value, Golf 10-20k€
>middle class, A4 20-40k€
>premium, A6 40-80k€
>luxury, A8 80-160k€
>exotic, R8 >160k€

>Not available in Spain, there the base model is the 2.0 TDI. (34.310€)
so let's compare it to the smallest Diesel Passat which offers a 1.6l, 88kw engine at 29.425€
that's still just a 17% increase
if that's enough to make the A4 a premium car then the Passat itself would also be premium
after all you could just buy a Skoda that is another 20% cheaper and offers the same functionality

Not only that, but they were made as if they were trying to keep a low poly count lol. I mean look at that fucking dash, it's as if they used a sledgehammer on a rock to shape it, kek. The R21 TXE injection has an awesome digital dash too, KITT tier.
I wouldn't get too upset about the window switches because it was kind of the norm at the time, although the Laguna and Safrane were a huge jump. Mercedes-Benz was lagging behind in the race with center console window controls still in 1999. Only when the W220 S-Klasse and C-Klasse were launched they put controls at the doors. And in 2002, same treatment for the new W211 E-Klasse. Renault was doing this in the 1992 Safrane already. The Safrane is on par with the magnificent and true magnum opus that is the BMW E31 8er in that regard. Both cars with a cockpit design which still influences design to this day.

I like the low radio though :^)

The Škoda is the thinking man's VW.
And I'm not going too much into detail, segments are standard practice. Even the way they market Audis is different to the way they market VWs. Audi carries more prestige thanks to its halo products, and this is enhanced by their "one sausage different sizes" approach to design. It all boils down to marketing and pricing in the end. Volkswagen is now dipping into the E-segment which is premium by itself, and they call their product a premium sedan. Look up the Arteon. They previously went to the F segment with the Phaeton and failed. The brand doesn't have the required prestige to pull it off. Other brands have failed for the same reason in the past. The French pulled out from the E segment because people looking for an executive car were looking for a status symbol and a generic brand wasn't cutting it. That's why Citroën launched the DS brand, so that they can compete. The Peugeot 607, Citroën C6 and Renault Latitude have no direct successors. It's important to understand that a premium product is still a mass produced product, as opposed to a luxury product which is made in rather limited numbers, at a steep price and for a select audience. The Ford GT is a luxury product, despite coming from a generic brand. There's less Ford GTs than Lamborghini Murcielagos.

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>with his dick in the rear
>where it belongs, in his wife.

kek
fucking Nader and his stupid scare

your categorization is still confusing,
those letters you are using might be the industry standard but they are un-intuitive to consumers
and with your wide definition of premium and extremely narrow one of luxury
an A4, A6 and A8 would all be premium sedans with a price difference of 300%
but the Passat and A4 with just 20% difference are completely different
that just doesn't make sense to me

>an A4, A6 and A8 would all be premium sedans with a price difference of 300%
>but the Passat and A4 with just 20% difference are completely different
>that just doesn't make sense to me
Because premium isn't about the segment. Premium vs generic is in the same segment. It's not uncommon to call premium stuff "luxury" informally, but from a sales point of view they're radically different concepts. A luxury item is desirable because of its scarcity more than because of its intrinsic property. "Mass luxury" is an oxymoron.

>Because premium isn't about the segment. Premium vs generic is in the same segment
so a consumer who doesn't know your industry specific terminology can't classify cars reasonably well
>A luxury item is desirable because of its scarcity...
that's why I made the distinction between luxury and exotic, luxury is achieved by pure quality and comfort
and exotic is luxury+scarcity

You have just reaffirmed my belief in these simple categories,
that are distinctive enough and more importantly easy to understand
>shitbox, VW up! value, Golf 10-20k€
>middle class, A4 20-40k€
>premium, A6 40-80k€
>luxury, A8 80-160k€
>exotic, R8 >160k€

Luxury is all about price and features. All the word means is that something is fucking comfy and expensive because of it. Nothing to do with scarcity other than that it is often unobtainable to the masses.

Premium is leather seats in an accord, luxury is calf leather interior and hydropneumatic suspension.

Luxury has nothing to do with the size of the car. You're better off comparing cars in the same segment like an Elise, a Miata and an SLK.

Luxury implies exotic. Gelatin was a luxury in the middle age and a symbol of status. You required to have a whole crew of cooks working for days to obtain a usable amount. Nowadays a homeless person can buy a pack of jello.
>so a consumer who doesn't know your industry specific terminology can't classify cars reasonably well
Not really, people tend to buy the car class that suits their needs. A full size car suits different needs than a large family car. One is more than enough to carry your family around, the other is the one you buy when you have a chauffeur. Segments are defined by size classes, but they have a huge impact in price.

Your examples are basically:
>city car: up
>compact/small family car: golf
>large family car/compact executive car: passat/A4
>executive car: A6
>full-size car: A8
That's where you're wrong my friend.
exactly, even though the F segment is associated to luxury

To further clarify, does it makes sense to cross-shop the A4 and the A8? Are they interchangeable in their roles?
Not really, one is just a personal car that's nicer than average, the other is often bought by companies to signal power. Perception is very important in business.

>Perception is very important
Perception is everything. Cars like the Phaeton (which looks like a big Passat) serve the purpose of providing the same amenities as the A8 without signaling as loud so that when the hordes of mongrels came with pitchforks and torches looking for you, they lynch your neighbor with the fancy A8 instead :^)

>Luxury has nothing to do with the size of the car.
but additional space even though you don't need it is one of the most important aspects of luxury
>Not really, people tend to buy the car class that suits their needs
>To further clarify, does it makes sense to cross-shop the A4 and the A8? Are they interchangeable in their roles?
But the primary function of all those cars is the same; getting to the office and grocery shopping on weekdays
and family trips on the weekends
the power signalling, perception, comfyness of the interior and ride quality are just additional extras for those willing to pay for it
and yes cross shopping an A4 and A8 is not that uncommon for those who can afford an A8 but aren't fuck you rich (think ~$200-300k yearly income)
if I listen to my dad and his friends discussing cars it's all about whether it is worth upgrading to the next class (or segment as you call it) since most are loyal to a specific brand
either because of image/conception (BMW, the driver's car, Mercedes, comfy and luxurious) or because they get a significant discount for one brand because of business connections

I can generally agree with that list, the only thing I don't like is the definition of a family car based mostly on price
an E-class t-model is just as much a family car as a Golf Variant the merc is just the premium car performing the same function
>city car: up
>compact/small family car: golf
>large family car/compact executive car: passat/A4
>executive car: A6
>full-size car: A8

Cosmic design when it debuted also way ahead of competition when it came to things like suspension
Front of well kept Focus Mk1 looks fresh as fuck even today

96' JZX100 Chaser Tourer V

>variable valve timing (VVTI)
>efficient single turbo inline 6 making solid reliable power
>electronically adjustable dampening control
>nav system option
>oscillating a/c vents
>electronic adjustable headlights
>heated and reclining rear seats option

For a car that came out in late 1995 the styling looks quite a bit like early 2000s design to me.

>fresh as fuck
cool as ice, even better with Xenon

>I can generally agree with that list, the only thing I don't like is the definition of a family car based mostly on price
>an E-class t-model is just as much a family car as a Golf Variant the merc is just the premium car performing the same function
the Golf Variant can't project the image the Mercedes can. It's about perception. Think for example of a lawyer. He'll seem a better professional to a lot of people who are superficial, even if the guy driving a beat up Suzuki with mismatched panels is even more skilled than him at the court.

In a similar vein, the Twingo was the ancestor of biodesign.

Oh and also an A8 can't carry three kids in the back, and it will also make your life miserable with its inferior performance and gas mileage (even if you're rich, people tend to let this bother them as evidenced by the huge amount of diesel full size luxury cars). Those cars are about comfort for the rear passengers.

Yeah.
However, I think peugeot had the advantage over renault in ergonomics.

Pic related, a second gen peugeot 405 interior; it has some things that I would like in a modern car, like the radio cover or the simple climate controls. All easy to reach.
Also, the windows switches were in the armrest (at least for the front windows).

Of course, I had to forget the pic.

>That smug fucking Twingo
also checked and kek'd

That's pretty nice, but the 605 was Mercedes-tier kek. Also that's a 92, before that it was much worse. 92 also saw the birth of the Safrane and 93 of the Laguna. The 306 was the game changer for Peugeot, it pioneered many features that were then adopted in the 406 like the multilink suspension and a refreshed design language. Having tried both the 406 and the Laguna I have to say I find the Laguna to be superior in that aspect. Didn't help that the 406 had sticky climate control buttons though.
What was incredible in the 406 was the keypad for starting. It's like you're Jason fucking Statham, kek.

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Kangoo learned from the best

also memes aside the Kangoo was ahead of the curve too

Either pic related or the Citroen DS

Both bold, innovative designs that represented a total departure from more commercial/utilitarian origins, with varying degrees of success

Bang on for what this thread is on about IMO

Literally any Volvo, even the current ones. The XC60 didn't even require being modified to pass the new regulations.

what regulations?

New EuroNCAP standards
I meant to say to pass with the best score

Holy shit I hate his stupid fucking face

Frogposters need to fuck off and gb2/b where they belong.