Being born is a harm. The problem with this statement isn't that it's false...

>Ever notice that babies cry when they are born?
Not all babies cry when their born. I didn't. However, my sister, who did, never stopped being a whiny bitch

LIFE IN THE WORLD IS CHARACTERIZED BY STRUGGLE, STRIFE, AND SUFFERING, WHICH IS WHY ONLY THE NOBLE MUST BE ALLOWED TO REPRODUCE —THOSE BIOGENETICALLY, AND ETHICOMORALLY, EXCELLENT, AND PREDISPOSED TO SCORN THE MUNDANE, AND THE SEXUAL—, WHILST PRECLUDING THE IGNOBLE TO REPRODUCE —THOSE BIOGENETICALLY, AND ETHICOMORALLY MEDIOCRE, OR SUBOPTIMAL, AND PREDISPOSED TO EMBRACE THE MUNDANE, AND THE SEXUAL.

IF ONLY THE NOBLE REPRODUCE, WHILST THE IGNOBLE GRADUALLY BECOME EXTINCT, EVENTUALLY TRANSCENDENCE OF THE WORLD VIA TELEOLOGICAL WORK WILL BE REALIZED.

TOTAL AND INDISCRIMINATE HALT ON REPRODUCTION IS AS DETRIMENTAL AS TOTAL AND INDISCRIMINATE CONTINUANCE OF REPRODUCTION; THE SOLUTION TO IMMERSION IN THE WORLD IS NOT TO AVOID THE WORLD, BUT TO TRANSCEND IT; TRANSCENDENCE IS POSSIBLE ONLY VIA EXALTATION, AND FULFILLMENT OF PURPOSE, SO ONE MUST OPTIMIZE TO THE MAXIMUM MUNDANE LIFE, AND FULFILL ONE'S PURPOSE IN THE WORLD, BEFORE MOVING BEYOND.

So why haven't you killed yourself yet?

Memes aside, I value existence over non-existence. Non-existence is not automatically better just because existence has suffering. Though obviously I have bias because I exist and can experience it.

fucking 20 yo libertarians and liberals who think material happiness is worth it

How is it that every time antinatalism is brought up, literally no one can refute it? Almost every response is a knee-jerk response filled with fallacies. Why would antinatalists kill themselves when that itself can cause suffering? LOL DUDE MILLENIALS, except this line of thought is not all all restricted to age group or time period. If you really think Veeky Forums is above this discussion, then directly address the questions so we can stop having these threads and get on with existence.

>Non-existence is not automatically better just because existence has suffering.
Based on what? How can the two even be compared as "better" or "worse"?

I agree with this

REI is right though.

If non existence is preferable to existence, then cease existing.

It's a pretty simple argument.

I'm actually quite happy I was born.

Reality contains an omnipresent beauty, wherein the most rapturous manifolds are near to our senses, mind, and heart.

While we are badgered by anthropocentric short-sightedness in matters of prehensions, justice, metaphysical hierarchy, to accept we are similar to other life (such as animals) shouldn't damage our conception of ourselves, as much as strengthen it.

However, we are not mere animals, nor are animals mere animals.
We, along with existence, share in common our processes as constituents of our protean reality.

People put too much stock into our placement in society, when we should rather seek out existence in the World.

You are only getting non arguments because what you've posted isn't worth one

Take this logical fallacy and shove it up your ass

Your whole philosophy is predicated of unstable axioms. Try to live for more than a pleasure/pain calculation and you might enjoy life more.

It's mostly because of what said, the fact you're clearly just saying this to be edgy and not because you actually thing death is preferable to life (or else you'd be dead), and that you're assuming that if you have an unhappy life, that everyone else must, or that the only things worth doing are pleasurable in nature, as if some of the most valued things in our lives aren't a combination of both.

People spend their lives in pursuit of love, yet pretty much anyone who's been in love will agree that it hurts and is difficult.

The reason people don't "Address the questions so we can stop having these threads" is because regardless of how thoroughly debunked it is in one thread, someone else will just make another identical one because they either didn't read the first, forgot, or were more interested in baiting than thinking.

>Being born is a harm. The problem with this statement isn't that it's false, it's that it is so obviously true that people call it "childish" because we all figured it out as children.
wow u relly made me think

>Ever notice how the most entertaining things in life are called "escapism"?
by life denying faggots like you maybe

If you don't want to be alive then kill yourself. Nobody's stopping you, in fact I'd happily encourage you.

I'm not the OP and that was my first post in the thread, you daft cunts. Please provide a screencap, copypasta, or anything posted on Veeky Forums that refutes antinatalism. I will wait.

Antinatalism does not assert that death is preferable to life, nor that suicide is appropriate. Some antinatalists greatly enjoy their lives, but have enough capacity objective observation that they can plainly see that many if not most people live lives full of suffering from the moment they leave the womb. Killing oneself does nothing to end the cycle, rather it continues it by not advocating for the abolition of new life and creating more suffering for those who value them in life.

>Try to live for more than a pleasure/pain calculation
I'd love to, but nothing convinces me it's anything but that. Everything from the building of civilizations to space exploration to having children is all about maximizing the ratio, we just rationalize it with nationalism, (((progress))), or 'opportunity'.

Nice invalidation of the argument.

Nice.

>I'm not the OP and that was my first post in the thread, you daft cunts

Okay, good for you?

>Please provide a screencap, copypasta, or anything posted on Veeky Forums that refutes antinatalism. I will wait.

Literally any antinatalism thread with over 50 replies in the archive. Go look it up.

>Antinatalism does not assert that death is preferable to life, nor that suicide is appropriate

The basis of anti-natalism is that life contains potential pain, and death contains none, so therefore death is a favourable state to be in. If you argue this while going "Oh but I love my life and will fight to stay alive", you clearly have no conviction in your beliefs.

>Some antinatalists greatly enjoy their lives, but have enough capacity objective observation that they can plainly see that many if not most people live lives full of suffering from the moment they leave the wom

When you say "Some people", your position changes from anti-natalism to pro-eugenics.

>Killing oneself does nothing to end the cycle, rather it continues it by not advocating for the abolition of new life and creating more suffering for those who value them in life.

Sounds like a copout to me. "Oh, sure, life is suffering and full of pain and death is preferably to life, but I'm going to stay alive to force this in others peoples faces, despite there being no need for me to do this, and there already being many texts on the topic".

>I'd love to, but nothing convinces me it's anything but that.

I love how you just conveniently ignore all the things in life that we seek that cause us pain. As I already said, love is the most obvious example of this. There are many others.

People don't live live purely to maximise pleasure, and many of the things we seek and value most are a combination of the two.

>notice how babies cry when they're born?

Please tell me this was ironic

Wow not even a fucking argument. Face it, I'm right and you're wrong. Anti-natalism is yet to be fucking refuted.

I thought this was the fucking smart board.

Yes, life is unfair and full of suffering.
But i know the path to freedom:
youtube.com/watch?v=AbmDLVFAaec
>Some antinatalists greatly enjoy their lives, but have enough capacity objective observation that they can plainly see that many if not most people live lives full of suffering from the moment they leave the womb.
Those people are full of shit.

>Judgments, judgments of value, concerning life, for it or against it, can, in the end, never be true: they have value only as symptoms, they are worthy of consideration only as symptoms; in themselves such judgments are stupidities. One must by all means stretch out one's fingers and make the attempt to grasp this amazing finesse, that the value of life cannot be estimated. Not by the living, for they are an interested party, even a bone of contention, and not judges; not by the dead, for a different reason. For a philosopher to see a problem in the value of life is thus an objection to him, a question mark concerning his wisdom, an un-wisdom. Indeed? All these great wise men -- they were not only decadents but not wise at all? But I return to the problem of Socrates.

Kek, is it so hard to admit that you might be wrong user? Shit posting doesn't make you look any smarter.

> Being born is a harm.
The only *person* that harmed this way is a fetus, but not being born forever is even more harmful for it and it's mother.
> You should be grateful?
Being grateful makes you live more happy life, so it is a viable advice. Of course, choice is yours.
> Babies cry when they are born?
Just the standard biological reaction. Crying isn't always associated with suffering, anyway.
> Everyone in the world has some obviously false belief about suffering being avoidable
Nobody believes in suffering being absolutely avoidable in practice. Most believe that shit happens, for one reason or another, or even without any reason.
> most entertaining things in life are called "escapism"?
There is nothing bad with escapism. It's healthy and unavoidable. Nobody can process all of the life complexity when he is focused on one thing.
> humans behave exactly as if they are instinct-driven apex predators
They don't. Human are pretty rational and there is nothing in their behavior shared with fucking lions.
> leading cause of "disability" in the world is a "mental illness" called "depression"
It's actually obesity first and addiction second as true depression isn't really diagnosed that much.

There exist legitimate arguments for anti-natalism, but not in this thread.

>It's actually obesity first and addiction second as true depression isn't really diagnosed that much.

Fucking this. MDD to the point of it being a disability is actually really fucking rare. MDD on its own is much less common than people act like it is (being depressed doesn't mean you have MDD), let alone when it's severe, even though everyone acts like they've got a super severe case of it.

Couldn't agree more!! I want off this planet but, can't afford my weapon of choice. Used to ponder CO but, lost my vehicle. Perhaps I could rent one but, that poor rental company. Oh me! I'm close to 60 so perhaps my time is short, thank God! Conversely, I'm vegan and healthier than I've ever been. WTF!!

HELP!

>Ever notice that babies cry when they are born?
wow really makes u think

Inexistance is equal to death and suicide exists
From there, life is not imposed

Life is a gift, not a burden.

>Anti-natalists should start the voluntary human extinction with themselves
Eh, they should spread it around the world. If you aren't a militant follower of your belief of choice then you are just a contrarian pussy that cant relax and live a normal life.

>Ever notice that babies cry when they are born?
>Hurr, biological function seen through my lens duur.

>Ever notice that almost everyone in the world has some obviously false belief about suffering being avoidable or about there being an afterlife that makes it all okay?

And this prves non-existence is better because... ?

>Remember when your parents first told you "life isn't fair"? Or "life's a bitch and then you die"? And then implied you should be grateful?

It's called "giving an advice for life," no one sane in their mind would choose a world full of suffering over a world with no strife if given the choice.

>Ever notice that humans behave exactly as if they are instinct-driven apex predators that can make up social excuses?

The mere fact you can think that should tell you something.

>The problem with this statement isn't that it's false, it's that it is so obviously true that people call it "childish" because we all figured it out as children.

I want to check out those children.

>Ever notice how the most entertaining things in life are called "escapism"?

Because you escape from problems. Problems, that are inherent to life and that contain good stuff too. The absolute nothingness, on the other hand, gives nothing at all.

Move up your ass and let others that want to live enjoy what you cannot use as a dead guy.

This train of thought has always kind of existed over history, yes. Doesn't mean it's inherently true, more respectable or whatever.