Descriptions of ancient societies from the point of view of other society. The further apart they are the better. I'll post what I have.
On the Arabs [Dashi to the Chinese], compiled from the records of Du Huang, who was a POW in the Abbasid Caliphate following the Battle of Talas.
>"The Dashi (Arabs) were originally under the rule of Anxi (Persia). The men have high noses, are dark, and bearded. The women are very fair [white] and when they go out they veil the face.
>Five times daily they worship Tianshen [lit. Heavenly God]. They wear silver girdles, with silver knives suspended. They do not drink wine, nor use music. Their place of worship will accommodate several hundreds of people.
>Every seventh day the King (Caliph) sits on high, and speaks to those below saying, ' Those who are killed by the enemy will be born in heaven above; those who slay the enemy will receive happiness.' Therefore they are usually valiant fighters. Their land is sandy and stony, not fit for cultivation; so they hunt and eat flesh."
>"Kufa is the place of their capital. Its men and women are attractive in appearance and large in stature. Their clothing is handsome, and their carriage and demeanor leisurely and lovely. When women go outdoors, they always cover their faces, regardless of whether they are noble or base. They pray to heaven five times a day. They eat meat [ even] when practicing abstention, [for] they believe the taking of life to be meritorious."
>"The followers of the religion of the Dashi have a means to denote the degrees of family relations, but it is degenerated and they don’t bother about it. They don’t eat the meat of pigs, dogs, donkeys and horses, they don’t respect neither the king of the country, neither their parents, they don’t believe in supernatural powers, they perform sacrifice to heaven and to no one else.
>According their customs every seventh day is a holiday, on which no trade and no cash transactions are done, whereas when they drink alcohol, they are behaving in a ridiculous and undisciplined way during the whole day.”
>Buddhists being salty about sacrifice.
No wonder Asians are low test.
Greek depiction of India by Flavius Arrianus, from post-Alexander Greek period, found at shsu.edu
>“10. This also is said, that the Indians do not construct monuments for the dead, for they think that the virtues of men are sufficient to perpetuate their memory after their death, as well as the songs which they sing in their honour. It would not be possible to record with accuracy the number of their cities on account of their multiplicity. Those which are situated near the rivers or the sea are built of wood; for if they were built of brick they could not long endure on account of the rain and because the rivers overflowing their banks fill the plains with water. But those which have been founded in commanding places, lofty and raised above the adjacent country, are built of brick and mortar. The largest city in India, named Palimbothra, is in the land of the Prasians, where is the confluence of the river Erannoboas and the Ganges, which is the greatest of rivers. The Erannoboas would be third of the Indian rivers, being also larger than those elsewhere. But it yields itself up to the Ganges when it has discharged its water into it. Megasthenes says that on one side where it is longest this city extends ten miles in length, and that its breadth is one and threequarters miles; that the city has been surrounded with a ditch in breadth 600 feet, and in depth 45 feet; and that its wall has 570 towers and 64 gates. This is a great thing in India, that all the inhabitants are free, not a single Indian being a slave. In this the Lacedaemonians and the Indians are alike. However the Helots are slaves to the Lacedaemonians and perform servile offices; but among the Indians no other Indian at any rate is a slave.“
>“11. All the Indians have been divided into seven castes. Among them are the wise men, fewer in number than the others, but most esteemed in reputation and dignity. For no necessity is incumbent upon them to do any bodily labour; nor do they contribute anything to the commonwealth from the effects of their labour; nor in a word have they any compulsory duty except to offer sacrifices to the gods on behalf of the commonwealth of India. Whoever sacrifices in his private capacity has one of these wise men as a director of the sacrifice, since otherwise he does not offer acceptable sacrifice to the gods. These also are the only Indians skilled in divination; and it is not lawful for anyone to practise the art except for a man who is a wise man. They practise divination in regard to the seasons of the year, and if any calamity befalls the commonwealth. It is not their business to practise their art in regard to the private affairs of individuals, either because the art of divination does not extend to smaller matters, or because it is not worthy of them to labour about such things. Whoever has made three errors in his practise of divination receives no other punishment except that for the future he is compelled to be silent; and there is no one who can compel that man to speak, upon whom the judgment of silence has been passed. These wise men pass their lives naked; in the winter in the sun under the open sky, but in the summer, when the sun holds sway, they live in the meadows and in the marshes under great trees, the shadow of which Nearchus says extends 500 feet all round, and I0,000 men could be shaded under one tree. So large are these trees. They feed on the fruits of the seasons and the inner bark of trees, which is both pleasant and nutritious; not less so than dates.“
>“After these the second caste are the agriculturalists, who are the most numerous class of Indians. These have no martial weapons, nor do they care for deeds of war, but till the soil. They pay dues to the kings or to those cities which are independent. If any war happens to break out among the Indians with each other it is not lawful for them to touch the tillers of the soil, or to lay waste the country itself by destroying the crops. But while others are waging war against each other and slaying each other as they find the chance, they are ploughing in peace and quietness near them, or are gathering in the vintage, or are pruning their vines, or are reaping their crops.
The third caste of Indians are the shepherds and the cowherds, who dwell neither in cities nor in villages; but are nomads and live up and down the mountains. They pay a tax from their flocks and herds. These men also catch birds and hunt wild beasts throughout the land.
12. The fourth caste is that of the artisans and retail tradesmen. These men perform public duties at their own cost, and pay a tax upon their work, except those who make weapons of war. These receive pay from the commonwealth. In this caste are the shipwrights and sailors who sail up and down the rivers.
The fifth caste of the Indians consists of the warriors, who in number come next to the husbandmen and enjoy very great freedom and good cheer. These men practise nothing but warlike exercises. Others make the weapons for them, others provide them with horses; and others serve them in the camp, who groom the horses for them, keep their weapons bright, manage the elephants, keep the chariots in order, and drive the horses. They themselves fight, as long as it is necessary to wage war; but when there is peace, they live with good cheer; and they receive such high pay from the state that they can easily support others from it.“
>“The sixth caste of Indians consists of men who are called overseers. These supervise what is done throughout the country and in the cities, and make reports to the king, where the Indians are ruled by a king, or to the magistrates where the people have a democratic government. It is unlawful for these men to make false reports; but no Indian has incurred the charge of falsehood.
>“The seventh caste consists of those who assist the king in deliberating on public affairs, or assist the officials in the cities which enjoy a democratic government. This class is small in number, but in wisdom and justice excels all the others. From them are chosen their rulers, governors of provinces, deputies, treasurers, generals, admirals, controllers of expenditure, and superintendents of agriculture.
>“It is not lawful for anyone to marry a woman from another caste; for example, for husbandmen to marry from the class of artisans or the reverse. It is not lawful for the same man to exercise two trades, or to exchange from one caste into another; for instance, he may not cease to be a shepherd and become a husbandman, or cease to be an artisan and become a shepherd. Only a man from any caste is allowed by them to become a wise man, because the duties of the wise men are not easy, but the most severely laborious of all.“
>Physically, the French are not noticeably tall or stout, yet they are bold in spirit and have a vivacious nature and an animated style of speech. In temperament they are akin to the Japanese and excel in their ingenuity, but they are quite the opposite of the British and Germans in their tendency towards recklessness and their lack of diligence or perseverance. They have a keen eye for enterprise initially, but in the final analysis they are imprudent since they often transgress accepted rules of conduct and find self-restraint hard. When a general of military genius emerges to spur them on, they become so invincible that they cast ravenous eyes over the whole of Europe, but the moment this leadership slackens their sense of unity shatters beyond repair. Their bloody defeat at the hands of the Germans [in the Franco Prussian War], too, was not the result of weakness on the part of the soldiers but was due to the inferiority of the generals.
"A Survey of France" in Japan Rising: The Iwakura Embassy to the USA and Europe, 1871-1873
William of Rubruck, an envoy of Louis IX of France to the court of Möngke Khan, describing Uyghur Buddhists in Qaraqorum:
>All the priests (of the idolaters) shave their heads, and are dressed in saffron color, and they observe chastity from the time they shave their heads, and they live in congregations of one or two hundred. On the days when they go into the temple, they put down two benches and sit on the ground opposite one another in facing rows like choirs, with books in their hands, which they sometimes put down on these benches; and they keep their heads uncovered as long as they are in the temple, reading in silence and keeping silence. And when I went into one of their temples at Caracarum, and found them thus seated, I tried every means of inducing them to talk, but was unable to do so. Wherever they go they have in their hands a string of one or two hundred beads, like our rosaries, and they always repeat these words, on mani baccam, which is, "God, thou knowest," as one of them interpreted it to me, and they expect as many rewards from God as they remember God in saying this. Around their temple they make a fine courtyard well surrounded by a wall, and in the side of this facing the south, they make the main gate where they sit and talk. And over this gate they set up a long pole, which, if it be possible, rises above the whole city, and by this pole it may be known that this building is an idol temple. This practice is common to all idolaters. When I went into the idol temple I was speaking of, I found the priests seated in the outer gate, and when I saw them with their shaved faces they seemed to me to be Franks, but the mitres they were wearing on their heads were of paper.
>These Iugur priests have the following dress: wherever they go they are always dressed in rather tight saffron-colored tunics, over which is a girdle like the Franks, and they have a stole (pallium) over their left shoulder, passed round the chest and the back to the right side, like the chasuble (casula) worn by a deacon in Lent.
>When then I had sat down beside these priests, after having been in the temple and seen their many idols, great and small, I asked them what they believed concerning God. They answered: "We only believe that there is one God." Then I asked: "Do you believe he is a spirit, or something corporeal?" "We believe that he is a spirit," they said. "Do you believe that he has never taken upon him human nature?" They said: "Never." "Then," said I, "if you believe that he is one and a spirit, why do you make him bodily images, and so many? Furthermore, if you do not believe that he became man, why do you make him in human shape rather than in that of some animal?" Then they replied: "We do not make these images for God, but when some rich person among us dies, his son, or wife, or someone dear to him, has made an image of the deceased, and puts it here, and we revere it in memory of him." Then I said: "Then you only make these out of flattery for man." "Only," they said, "in remembrance." Then they asked me, as if in derision: "Where is God ? "To which I said: "Where is your soul?" "In our body," they said. I replied: "Is it not everywhere in your body, and does it not direct the whole of it, and, nevertheless, is invisible? So God is everywhere, and governs all things, though invisible, for He is intelligence and wisdom." Then, just as I wanted to continue reasoning with them, my interpreter, who was tired and incapable of finding the right words, made me stop talking.
>Ahmad ibn Fadlān ibn al-Abbās ibn Rāšid ibn Hammād (Arabic: أحمد بن فضلان بن العباس بن راشد بن حماد, fl. 921–22) was a 10th-century Arab traveler, famous for his account of his travels as a member of an embassy of the Abbasid Caliph of Baghdad to the king of the Volga Bulgars. En route to the Bulgars he fell in with a group of Viking marauders. Here he describes them in a letter
>The Northmen
They are the filthiest race that God ever created. They do not wipe themselves after a stool, nor wash themselves thereafter, any more than if they were wild asses.
They come from their country in the North, anchor their ships in the Volga River, and build large wooden houses on its banks. In every such house there live ten or twenty, more or less. Each man has a couch, where he sits with the beautiful girls he has for sale. Here he is as likely as not to enjoy one of them while a friend looks on. At times several of them will be thus engaged, each in full view of the others. Now and then a merchant will come to a house to purchase a girl, and find her master thus embracing her, and not giving over until he has full had his will.
Every morning a girl comes and brings a tub of water, and places it before her master. In this he proceeds to wash his face and hands, and then his hair, combing it out over the vessel. Thereupon he blows his nose, and spits into the tub, and leaving no dirt behind, conveys it all into this water. When he has finished, the girl carries the tub to the man next t him, who does the same. Thus she continues carrying the tub from one to another until each man has blown his nose and spit into the tub, and washed his face and hair
>A Viking Funeral
I was told that when their chiefs die, they consume them with fire. When I heard that one of their leaders had died, I wanted to see this myself. First they laid him in his grave, over which a roof was erected, for the space of ten days, until they had completed cutting and sowing his funeral clothes.
At the death of a rich man, they bring together his goods, and divide them into three parts. The first of these is for his family. The second is expended for the garments they make. And with the third they purchase strong drink, for the day when the girl resigns herself to death, and will be burned with her master.
When one of their chiefs dies, his family asks his girls and pages, "Which one of you will die with him?" One will answer: "I." From the moment he utters this word, he may not go back. Mostly, though, it is one of the girls who volunteers.
Regarding the man of whom I spoke, one girl answered "I will." She was then entrusted to two other girls, who kept watch over her and accompanied her everywhere she went. The people were preparing the dead man's funeral clothes, and this girl gave herself over to drinking and singing, and was cheerful and gay.
When the day had come that the dead man and the girl were to be committed to the flames, I went to the river where his ship lay, but found it had already been drawn ashore. The dead man lay at a distance in his grave, from which they had not yet removed him. Next they brought a couch, placed it in the ship, and covered it with Greek cloth of gold, wadded and quilted, with pillows of the same material. An woman, whom they call the "Angel of Death," came and spread articles on the couch. It was she who was to slay the girl.
>They do not wipe themselves after a stool, nor wash themselves thereafter
>he blows his nose, and spits into the tub, and leaving no dirt behind, conveys it all into this water. When he has finished, the girl carries the tub to the man next t him, who does the same.
Thats actually pretty filthy desu
They drew the dead man out of the grave and clothed him. They carried him into the ship, seated him on the quilted covering, supported him with the pillows, and brought strong drinks, fruits, and herbs to place beside him. Finally they brought a cock and hen, slew them, and threw them in, too.
The girl meanwhile walked to and fro, entering one after another of the tents which they had there. The occupant of each tent lay with her, saying, "Tell your master I did this only for love of you."
It was now Friday afternoon, and they led the girl to an object they had constructed which looked like a door-frame. They lifted her and lowered her several times. Then they handed her a hen, whose head they had cut off. They gave her strong drink and admonished her to drink it quickly.
After this, the girl seemed dazed. At this moment the men began to beat upon their shields, in order to drown out the noise of her cries, which might deter other girls from seeking death with their masters in the future.
They laid her down and seized her hands and feet. The old woman known as the Angel of Death knotted a rope around her neck and handed the ends to two men to pull. Then with a broad dagger she stabbed her between the ribs while the men strangled her. Thus she died.
The family of the dead men drew near, and taking a piece of wood, lit the ship. The ship was soon aflame, as was the couch, the man, the girl, and everything in it.
At my side one of the Northmen was talking with my interpreter. After their conversation I asked my interpreter what he had said. The Northman had said:
>"You Arabs are stupid! You would take him who is the most revered and beloved among men, and cast him into the ground, to be devoured by creeping things and worms. We, on the other hand, burn him in a twinkling, so that he instantly, without a moment's delay, enters into Paradise.”
Asshole interpreter
>you will never show an ancient person around the modern world
Byzantine war manual description of adversaries; steppe nomads, Germanics and South Slavs
th...thanks Japan
I have tons on my other computer :(
Chinese descriptions of British are nice, apparently they thought they couldn't see depth, didn't have knee joints and drank menstrual blood.
STOP MAKING ME CRY, YOU CUNT
That slav sneakyness.
Using hollow reeds
...
>The girl meanwhile walked to and fro, entering one after another of the tents which they had there. The occupant of each tent lay with her, saying, "Tell your master I did this only for love of you."
>It was now Friday afternoon, and they led the girl to an object they had constructed which looked like a door-frame. They lifted her and lowered her several times. Then they handed her a hen, whose head they had cut off. They gave her strong drink and admonished her to drink it quickly.
>After this, the girl seemed dazed. At this moment the men began to beat upon their shields, in order to drown out the noise of her cries, which might deter other girls from seeking death with their masters in the future.
>They laid her down and seized her hands and feet. The old woman known as the Angel of Death knotted a rope around her neck and handed the ends to two men to pull. Then with a broad dagger she stabbed her between the ribs while the men strangled her. Thus she died.
>The family of the dead men drew near, and taking a piece of wood, lit the ship. The ship was soon aflame, as was the couch, the man, the girl, and everything in it.
absolutely haram, what the fuck
[spoiler];-;[/spoiler]
sounds like a white devil
A nice tl;dr of history from a traditional chinese view is - We invented everything and then forgot it while barbarians remembered.
This is sort of true regarding Japan and Korea.
Most of their """""""traditional"""""""" shit is basically T'ang period traditions. The Hanbok, those anal Japanese tea ceremonies, etc. Its not "forgotten" though. More or less, "improved."
Andalusian/Moroccan description of Amsterdam
I wonder if Europeans jerked off harder to the Romans or the Chinese to Tang and Song dynasty in the early modern period.
And in 1609 he also spoke what is probably the first university educated arabist.
this arab guy sounds a like a pretty swell dude
...
Not sure if he was an arab, a berber or a moor or god knows what.
But yeah the Protestant Nations had good relations with several Muslim states and you can see them on paintings occasionally. Bottom Right hand corner in this picture IIRC
Alright I got a bunch of Chinese ones, is anyone still watching this thread?
here
this is a good thread
...
...
...
That's the wealth of nations isn't it.
I believe so.
I have a bunch of artwork of Irish mercenaries by Spanish and German artists on my laptop but I'm away from home, hopefully this thread will still be up when I get back
Don't worry we've been keeping the Burgundy thread alive for weeks now.
Looks pretty accurate. Specially compared with chinese descriptions of Rome who was more or less in the same place.
What a wonderful and fresh thread, sorry I can't contribute yet I'm just looking through to find something to post
WE WEL BOATS N SHITTO
>1700s.
>Qing Golden Age.
>Some Brit says "It's fucking shit."
Is the 18th Century just filled with Brits talking shit about places they haven't visited? I don't care if this is Adam Smith.
Inb4 Arab or Marco Polo description of the Zanj
The knowledge that the chinese then proceeded to be BTFO so hard their entire civilization was reduced to making cheap plastic toys for obese american children after they uttered these things is priceless
Britain has visited Qing China in the 1700s.
China doesn't like Britain that much at the time and prefers dealing with France, the Netherlands, and Spain. Britain has no products China wanted and in addition their sailors are a bunch of troublemaking hooligans in the trading ports.
Adam Smith may be just a salty brit when he wrote that.
In terms of living standards Qing was right up there with Eastern European countries.
Probably but there's no serfdom in Qing China.
The T'ang Dynasty Chinese on the Byzantine Empire/Eastern Roman Empire from the Xintangshu (New Records of T'ang)
"The country of Fulin (拂菻, Literally "New Wealth") is also called Daqin (Rome) and is situated on the west side
of the Haixi (Egypt). It is located at forty thousand li (~16,000 km);
in the north it is bordered by the territories of the Turkish Kesa (可薩).
At the western side, near the sea, there is the (capital) city of Constantinople (Chisan 遲
散).118 (Fulin) has a common border with Persia in the southeast. Its territory
extends more than ten thousand li (~5000 km), and its armies recruit hundreds of
thousands of soldiers. Every ten li (~5 km) there is a pavilion, and every three li
(1.5 km) there is a military place. There are ten subordinate, little countries, and to
go there, the road passes through the countries of Yisan (澤散Armenia; in
Armenian Hayastan) and Lufen (驢分the Kievan Rus; Lat. Ruthenia). Yisan is at
its northeastern section and does not obey its orders. Going in the direction of the
eastern Guohai Sea, at two thousand li, there is the country of Lufen. The capital
city Chisan is protected by thick walls eight li (~3.2 km) long, and the
eastern door is twelve zhang high, with hinges made of pure gold. There are three
doors in a line on the three king’s palaces, and they are all decorated with many
kinds of jewels. On the middle door there is a big man made of gold next to a
horologe made with twelve golden balls that shows the time. There are huge
columns in the palace made of crystal, with the posts made of colored glaze and
rafters made of perfumed wood; the floor is made of gold with ivory everywhere."
"They have twelve administrative regions.119 When the king goes out, there is
always an assistant with him and when there is a dispute, they throw the request
paper at him; in this way, the king rectifies the injustices in the provinces. If there
are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, he (the king) is unceremoniously
rejected and replaced. The cape of the king is like two wings of a bird made of
jewels and feathers. His clothes are made of brocade and he has no garment in
front. His throne is made of gold and decorated with falling flowers, and on his
side there is a bird with green feathers (a peafowl; Lat. Pavo) 120 that cries
suddenly when there is poison in the food. They do not use ceramic bricks but
they decorate the walls with white stones and the tiles of the houses are solid and
elegant like the jade. They have a system of fountains to refresh the air. The men
cut their hair and their clothes are finely embroidered, open on the right side.
They have screened coaches (for the women) and small white-roofed one-horse
carts. When carriages come and go, drums are beaten and flags and standards are
raised. The women have white pieces of cloth made of brocade on their hair. The
families always complain and many go to the palace court. They like to get drunk
and to eat biscuits. They have many children. There are also many illusionists,
who can spit fire out of their faces, have very nimble hands and can take out
banners from their mouths and make balls of jade come out of their feet."
From the Liezhuan, a T'ang ethnographic atlas.
"There are
excellent doctors who are able to open the stomach to take out the diseases and that can also repair the eyes. They have plenty of gold (jin 金), silver (yin 銀),
phosphorescent jade (yeguangbi 夜光璧), precious stones (mingyueqiu 明月球),
large seashells (dabei 大貝), mother-of-pearl (chequ 車渠), agates (manao 嗎硇),
munan (木難), empty jades (kongchi 孔翠), and yellow amber (hupo 虎魄). In the
sea, there are oceans of corals; the mariners use big ships and they throw iron nets
into the bottom of the sea. At the beginning of their lives, the corals are white,
then they become yellow after one year, then they become red after three year,s
and their branches are complex, to a height of 3 or 4 chi (less than one meter).
They use the iron nets to cut the corals at their roots and then to bring them up
into the ship, and when they pull up the nets, nobody dares go close to the waters.
There is a beast large like a dog that they call “Zhi,” fierce and evil, with great
strength.122 In the northern area there are many sheep; they grow from the earth
and their navels are linked to the earth; they die if it is cut. When the armored
horsemen go out of the cities, they hit the drums and the umbilical cords (of the
sheep) are cut; the sheep immediately follow the river grass and they are not in
the herd anymore (and they die). The seventeenth year of the Zhenguan era (643
AD), the king of Fulin, Boduoli (波多力 Constantine II “Pogonatos”) sent an
embassy with colored glass and some “essence of green glasses.” (The emperor
Taizong) made gifts (of silk) in return. When the Arabs (大食 Dashi)123 were
getting stronger, the surrounding countries were slowly conquered and Muawiyah
(Moye 摩拽) was sent to conquer the capital of Fulin."
I so badly need to get the Strategikon on my hands and read it whole
"After this, a peace treaty
was signed and every year the Fulin paid tributes of silk and gold to the Dashi as a vassal country. The second year of the Qianfang era (667 AD) an embassy was
sent bringing gifts and theriaca (Diyejia 底野加). The first year of the Daju era
(701 AD), a new embassy came to the court. The first month of the seventh year
of the Kaiyuan era (719 AD), a great ambassador of the Tuhuoluo came bringing
gifts of two lions and two gazelles and few months later the monk Dade (David)
arrived at the court. Two thousand li (880 km) at the southwest of Fulin there is a
country called Molin, also called Laoposa (Ethiopia). Their people are black and
strong. Nothing grows from the soil; there are diseases in the ground that dry
every single herb in the valleys and in the forests. They feed the horses with rotten
fish and eat dates.”
>There are
excellent doctors who are able to open the stomach to take out the diseases and that can also repair the eyes.
Do you have any more info on this? How advanced was the byzantine empire medically/ technologically?
there's something endearing about how friendly their discussion seems
True dat.
The infanticide of (especially female) babies is mentioned in a number of European descriptions of China, even reliable ones that spoke Chinese and lived in China for multiple decades. Let's just say I do not doubt him when he says it happened
They were talking about surgery. Though the Chinese thought Opthalmology was the shit and that the Byzantines were p. Cool in this
>The country of Fulin (拂菻, Literally "New Wealth") is also called Daqin (Rome)
Charlemagne btfo
I believe there is or was A Chinese taboo on dissection corpses. While this was also the case in Europe until the high Middle Ages there were folks like Galen who had aces to dead or barely living gladiators.
The Romans did perform Cataract Surgery iirc.
Me too. Shit seems so cash.
imagine coming from like ancient greece and getting shown cars, internet, modern medicine, planes, guns, nukes, refrigeration, tv, astronomy, cosmology, shitposting, phones, civil engineering, and all the other wealth and technology we have
it would be the literally most incredible thing anyone has ever seen in their entire lives
Sauce?
>First-hand reports of other cultures and nations were documented only to explain things to their home culture
>We will never get a first-hand account of interpersonal relationships that are uncensored
I wonder how many emissaries and traders had crazy sexual experiences but didn't write them down.
Finally a thread to post this in, so many months after I capped this.
Sasanian monarchs also praised and loved East Roman doctors. Either the chinese are copying a middle eastern stereotype or it's simply true that roman medicine was very advanced. Maybe both.
Specifically, that's the Chinese opinion of the Franks.
Which is probably taken from the byzantine and middle-eastern stereotype of them, and the chinese took it second-hand.
>performing cataract surgery with no anesthetic
How? Not even counting the pain; how do you keep the eye from moving while you're cutting it?
Well you got three options.
A bunch of guys physically restrain you and you try not to be a pussy
The doctor would administer a strong blow with a very sterile hammer
The doctor give you some form of Anesthetics
user, it doesn't matter how tough you are. The eye will twitch if you stick something sharp in it without giving it anesthetic.
See options 1 and 2 then
What if they get you absolutely black the FUCK out drunk?
>There is a beast large like a dog that they call “Zhi,” fierce and evil, with great
strength.122 In the northern area there are many sheep; they grow from the earth and their navels are linked to the earth; they die if it is cut. When the armored horsemen go out of the cities, they hit the drums and the umbilical cords (of the sheep) are cut; the sheep immediately follow the river grass and they are not in the herd anymore (and they die).
What the fuck kek
en.wikipedia.org
Still don't know what the fuck Zhi is.
Well, it was a kinda justified stereotype
Every time I get introduced to something like this I wonder how many things in historical sources we disregard as fantasy actually have a "sensible" explanation.
>just before the "islamic golden age", Constantinople had made contact with China and was just about to usher in a new era of peace and prosperity
really makes you think
the "Islamic Golden Age" is usually put around the reign of Saladin, almost 600 years later
It ended with the Abbasith something something Caliphate didn't it?
It's argued, but the definite end point of the range is the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols.
Fucking mongs
>center of Islamic knowledge
>vast and expansive library and university
>heartland of the Fertile Cresent
>all destroyed because the Mongols are shitstains who can't resist destroying everything they touch
And thus the Middle East never amounted to anything ever again.
Isn't it wonderful?
The footnote says "Hyena."
That doesnt apply to Surgery since youre not a corpse. Chinks did surgery as well thought they didnt do opthalmology as early as classical greco-romans did.
I'll post a few things.
>Olfert Dapper's description of Benin, 1668
The town, including the queen's court, is about five or six [Dutch] miles in circumference, or leaving the court outside, three miles inside its gates. It is protected at one side by a wall ten feet high, made of double stockades of big trees, tied to each other by cross-beams fastened cross- wise, and stuffed up with red clay, solidly put together. This wall only surrounds the town on one side, there being on the other, where there is no wall, a morass and close underwood, which affords no little protection and strength to the town. The town possesses several gates, eight or nine feet in height and five in width, with doors made of a whole piece of wood, hanging or turning on a peg, like the peasant's fences here in this country [Holland].
The king's court is square, and stands at the right hand side when entering the town by the gate of Gotton [Gwato], and is certainly as large as the town of Harlem, and entirely surrounded by a special wall, like that which encircles the town. It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers, and comprises beautiful and long square galleries, about as large as the Exchange at Amsterdam, but one larger than another, resting on wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper, on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles, and are kept very clean. Most palaces and the houses of the king are covered with palm leaves instead of square pieces of wood [shingles], and every roof is decorated with a small turret ending in a point, on which birds are standing, birds cast in copper with outspread wings, cleverly made after living models.
The town has thirty very straight and broad streets, every one of them about one hundred and twenty feet wide, or as wide as the Heeren or Keizersgracht [canals] at Amsterdam, from one row of the houses to the other, from which branch out many side streets, also broad, though less so than the main streets. The houses are built alongside the streets in good order, the one close to the other, as here in the country, adorned with gables and steps, and roofs made of palm or banana leaves, or leaves from other trees; they are not higher than a stadie, but usually broad with long galleries inside, especially so in the case of the houses of the nobility, and divided into many rooms which are separated by walls made of red clay, very well erected, and they can make and keep them as shiney and smooth by washing and rubbing as any wall in Holland can be made with chalk, and they are like mirrors. The upper storeys are made of the same sort of clay. Moreover, every house is provided with a well for the supply of fresh water: in short, the houses are built there more neatly than anywhere in that country.
>mfw cucks actually believe this
That's pretty fucking neat.
Contrasts heavily with other descriptions of the Gold, ivory and slave coast.
>benin
haha benin :-DDD
>al-Biruni, describing the differences between Muslims/Persians and Hindus/Indians, 1030 AD
Before entering on our exposition, we must form an adequate idea of that which renders it so particularly difficult to penetrate to the essential nature of any Indian subject. The knowledge of these difficulties will either facilitate the progress of our work, or serve as an apology for any shortcomings of ours. For the reader must always bear in mind that the Hindus entirely differ from us in every respect, many a subject appearing intricate and obscure which would be perfectly clear if there were more connection between us. The barriers which separate Muslims and Hindus rest on different causes.
First, they differ from us in everything which other nations have in common. And here we first mention the language, although the difference of language also exists between other nations. If you want to conquer this difficulty (i.e. to learn Sanskrit), you will not find it easy, because the language is of an enormous range, both in words and inflections, something like the Arabic, calling one and the same thing by various names, both original and derived, and using one and the same word for a variety of subjects, which, in order to be properly understood, must be distinguished from each other by various qualifying epithets. For nobody could distinguish between the various meanings of a word unless he understands the context in which it occurs, and its relation both to the following and the preceding parts of the sentence. The Hindus, like other people, boast of this enormous range of their language, whilst in reality it is a defect.
Later descriptions are much less flattering, partially because of rising prejudice but also because Benin was largely destroyed in the later 17th century during civil wars and never really regained its previous prosperity.
>I skipped parts here about how hard Sanskrit is too pronounce
Add to this that the Indian scribes are careless, and do not take pains to produce correct and well-collated copies. In consequence, the highest results of the author's mental development are lost by their negligence, and his book becomes already in the first or second copy so full of faults, that the text appears as something entirely new, which neither a scholar nor one familiar with the subject, whether Hindu or Muslim, could any longer understand. It will sufficiently illustrate the matter if we tell the reader that we have sometimes written down a word from the mouth of Hindus, taking the greatest pains to fix its pronunciation, and that afterwards when we repeated it to them, they had great difficulty in recognising it.
Besides, the scientific books of the Hindus are composed in various favourite metres, by which they intend, considering that the books soon become corrupted by additions and omissions, to preserve them exactly as they are, in order to facilitate their being learned by heart, because they consider as canonical only that which is known by heart, not that which exists in writing. Now it is well known that in all metrical compositions there is much misty and constrained phraseology merely intended to fill up the metre and serving as a kind of patchwork, and this necessitates a certain amount of verbosity. This is also one of the reasons why a word has sometimes one meaning and sometimes another.
Secondly, they totally differ from us in religion, as we believe in nothing in which they believe, and vice versa. On the whole, there is very little disputing about theological topics among themselves; at the utmost, they fight with words, but they will never stake their soul or body or their property on religious controversy. On the contrary, all their fanaticism is directed against those who do not belong to them—against all foreigners. They call them mleccha, i.e. impure, and forbid having any connection with them, be it by intermarriage or any other kind of relationship, or by sitting, eating, and drinking with them, because thereby, they think, they would be polluted. They consider as impure anything which touches the fire and the water of a foreigner; and no household can exist without these two elements. Besides, they never desire that a thing which once has been polluted should be purified and thus recovered, as, under ordinary circumstances, if anybody or anything has become unclean, he or it would strive to regain the state of purity. They are not allowed to receive anybody who does not belong to them, even if he wished it, or was inclined to their religion. This, too, renders any connection with them quite impossible, and constitutes the widest gulf between us and them.
In the third place, in all manners and usages they differ from us to such a degree as to frighten their children with us, with our dress, and our ways and customs, and as to declare us to be devil's breed, and our doings as the very opposite of all that is good and proper. By the by, we must confess, in order to be just, that a similar depreciation of foreigners not only prevails among us and the Hindus, but is common to all nations towards each other.