Dealership told me my car needed new lifters due to sludge build up
Just got back from a third party ASE-certified garage where they said there was no sludge at all and even flushed it, done a synthetic oil change, new valve gasket cover, and some other stuff.
I am now confused. The dealer told me the loud ticking noise from the engine was the lifters 100% due to sludge buildup. But this shop and Auto Zone (check engine line print out) say the ticking noise is coming from something in the pic related range.
Why did the dealership try to scam me? If it is the timing belt, my extended warranty covers it. Was the mechanic who diagnosed it just retarded or is this greed coming from upper management at the dealer? I have all the paperwork and I don't know if I should take it to the original dealer tomorrow and present all this evidence or just take it to another dealer.
Because that's their job? Have been living under a rock?
Ayden Perez
Try a different dealership.
Landon Richardson
What shocks me the most is if I paid the $1,300 the dealer was wanting for new lifters, the noise would have still been there. I would've wasted $1,300. And they explicitly told me that severe SLUDGE BUILDUP was the cause for the noisy lifters. But this garage just told me the car had zero sludge at all. I have a receipt with all the work from this garage too.
I didn't know it was a real meme. I've heard of shady dealerships, but this takes it a whole new level.
I am, right after I take it there first thing in the morning and show them motherfuckers that they are liars and I tell them my online reviews will feature all of this along with receipts and their diagnoses.
I'm afraid that if they do work on this, since timing belt is covered by extended warranty, they will fuck it up again or come up with some other bullshit reason like sludge so that the warranty company won't pay for it to make me pay for it.
What I don't understand is, if it really was the lifters, the warranty company would have paid the dealer to replace all of it. But they said sludge was the cause so I was going to foot the bill.
William Ortiz
Lifter tick is pretty common. I never found it to be a nuisance.
Nolan Roberts
No, this is severe. Like a dirt bike. But it is not the lifters. It is something to do with the camshaft/timing belt which are covered by my extended warranty in blatant wording.
Carter Morris
It could be incompetence too, OP. The service techs at the dealers aren't really any better than the indies are. They do have access to manufacturer's tools and access to whatever sekrit rituals the manufacturer won't share with the peasants but for 95% of all problems, an indie is probably better than the dealer.
Cooper Rodriguez
What are the rules with the warranty? Are you even allowed to use it at a different dealer or shop? Have the shop write something up that they checked and confirmed that there was no sludge and confront the dealer about it.
Ryan Collins
I'm not gonna get the work done at the same dealer though. I might stop by there tomorrow on the way to a different shop to tell them that they are bull shitting cunts and get fucked. I have to go somewhere that has a "real" office staff though because I have an extended warranty and the company will want paperwork filed and sent in. I can't take it to a local corner garage for that kind of stuff, I think.
But if it is incompetence, how do you diagnose sludge as a cause for mechanical failure if there isn't any? Is it possible he fucked something up the last time he worked on it and don't want to admit guilt? Or is it just greed?
Nathaniel Taylor
I can take the car to any service center to get work done on it. The warranty company wasn't going to pay for the lifters though because of sludge.
>Have the shop write something up that they checked and confirmed that there was no sludge and confront the dealer about it.
They will probably say they're sorry, etc. but when they get their hands on it again they'll fuck it up again. It's been in and out of that place since I got it and the same service tech worked on it.
John Nguyen
Dealership techs work through a basic manual when a car comes in with certain symptoms. They look at the issues, and if they can't readily identify the EXACT source/problem, they start with a list of potential solutions. Normally they're ordered by the manufacturer (i.e. BMW) and work in sequence. They might be designed to address the most COMMON issue related to those symptoms, or they might be designed to use the CHEAPEST option first.
Some dealerships negate this and automatically suggest the more expensive options right away. These are kikes. Kikes are not your friends.
Unless you have a trustworthy private mechanic to check with, or you are knowledgeable enough/can do enough of your own homework, dealerships really do have you spread over a barrel.
Eli Garcia
You just said you took it elsewhere and they say there isn't any sludge.
Benjamin Peterson
>Is it possible he fucked something up the last time he worked on it
So much for those customer satisfaction surveys meaning anything.
Evan Jones
>caring about customers >at a fucking stealership Ill admit some places care a decent bit, but most just see you as the idiot whos about to pay thousands over msrp, ontop of any of thay extra shit they con you into like detailing, alarms, etc.
Connor Cox
Why not open it up yourself and find out?
Adrian Peterson
I am now pretty confident it is a TIMING GEAR that is fucked and that is blatantly covered under my extended warranty in plain text.
The dealer's tech was the one who said it was sludge. The third party garage said there wasn't any sludge at all and flushed/cleaned it anyway.
It has a warranty
Hudson Ramirez
Stop being gay
Lucas Ross
and I guarantee none of them opened it up to see if there is any sludge in there
did the tick go away?
Joseph Roberts
>covered under my extended warranty Hopefully you didn't pay for that warranty. They are scams. The dealer will just deny the problem until the warranty expires.
Jayden Murphy
No. Still ticking. The third party garage said the lifters were solid though and said the noise was coming from the timing belt.
Levi James
>The dealer's tech was the one who said it was sludge. Don't blame the tech unless your heard him say it.
Samuel Edwards
He told me to my face that the sludge was so bad it would possibly need a new engine in the next 10,000 miles even if I replaced the lifters.
Christopher Bennett
You're gonna have to confront them somehow because they probably noted the non existent sludge and your warranty is currently useless.
Hudson Scott
I'd make a Yelp review on that dealership if I was you.
Joseph Green
What is the year/make/model/engine in question.
HLA (hydraulic lash adjuster) lifters work on oil pressure, to make up the difference between the cam lobe and the valve.
Solid lifters are either adjustable, or set with shims.
Your noise is likely from the lifters. If you have a DOHC engine like in the picture, the lifters sit below the camshafts.
Lifter noise does not condemn a motor. Lifters can make noise for a variety of reasons. More info is required.
John Howard
Why would the check engine light from Autozone read camshaft sensor then?
The car only has 42,000 miles.
Nathan Sanders
>Why would the check engine light from Autozone read camshaft sensor? Because Autozone isn't trying to wiggle out of a warranty repair.
Hudson Powell
Here is the print out from autozone that the dealer said was from lifters. Third party garage also said the noise was from something in the timing belt.
Charles Russell
Look man. This is the third or so thread that you've made. Nothing is gonna get fixed until you confront the dealer.
Gavin Hernandez
That ain't the lifters at all. Timing is not acting right when commanded by the computer.
WHAT ENGINE IS THIS?
VVT solenoid should fix you problem.
William Adams
If he tells me the damn engine, I can promise him it will be fixed, I'll even look up the part he needs.
Camden Taylor
>the ticking noise is coming from something in the pic related range.
That stuff is all covered under warranty. 'Sludge' can be put back on you for poor maintenance. Sounds like your motor is about to eat a timing belt and blow. Dealer probably figures this and is trying to put the blame on you and weasel out of an expensive repair or new motor.
Keep those codes from Autozone. If you break a belt and wreck the engine, you can dispute the reason with the dealer.
Aiden Morgan
But why would they put the blame on damaged lifters instead of timing belt? The lifters are covered under warranty too if no "sludge".
It's an extended warranty so it's not like the dealer is paying for it. A third party company is the warranty provider.
Jayden Lee
What part of the timing belt has an oscillating tick?
If it's under warranty, it's too new to need a belt due to age. I can't think of a sub 60k belt interval in the last 10 years.
soooooo...... about that belt?
Benjamin Lee
timing gear is what a few people in person have told me
Evan Brooks
Tech probably didn't feel like doing any work that day. Tell us what the car is.
Colton Cook
there are only 3 circumstances i will ever go to a dealer: >buy a car >trade a car >warranty work those are literally the only reasons you should ever go to an automotive jewhut
Luis Rivera
ask yourself this why would a belt tick when it is rubber?
timing chains can rattle but that is different than ticking
the fry cooks at McAuto Zone don't know shit
Ethan Rodriguez
He bought a car from the dealer with a third party warranty. Now the dealer won't use the warranty to fix his car because they claim there is sludge and the engine will die soon.
There are two types of belt driven timing gears, solid cogs, and variable advance.
Solid cogs are a chunk of metal, with gear teeth driven by the belt.. Ain't gonna tick. If it could somehow fail, it would fall off.
Variable advance uses (typically) oil pressure to advance or retard the cam timing. If I saw that 0012 code, and the engine was full of oil, and it wasn't straight sludge under the oil fill, it would be leaving with a VVT solenoid.
Incorrect valve timing during the cams travel can cause abrupt lift points as the cam lobe meets the lifter. This can cause ticking.
I'm literally dying for this engine model. This is really basic stuff here guys. Cam advance code, ticking (could be lifters), come on.
Nolan Turner
That is an aftermarket timing gear conversion kit, 100% gear drive, no belt or chain.
That whine on any other car is a pulley. And that sound ain't a tick.
Xavier Brooks
Yeah it is more like a whine from a pulley.
Car is 2010 Hyundai Accent 1.6l manual. Can't find a good wiki for the engine
Nicholas Bennett
OP:
THIS is what lifter tick sounds like (a very bad case at that), this car has HLA lifters.
When you've been to the dealer is it always the same tech? I'd try to get a different one.
Easton Rodriguez
Oh it is nothing like that man. That sounds awful.
If anyone knows a good way of uploading a quick video, I'll record a video and post it here with the sound and engine hood open
Mason Kelly
Yeah. Same guy every time. I am going to ask if a different guy can look at it tomorrow
Ian Mitchell
Easy enough, 1.6 DOHC with that cheater timing belt setup that runs the intake (?) cam and uses a rear driven chain to connect to the exhaust.
If it's whinning like that, there are only a few options. Dorman part in this search should fix your Check engine light. It's facing you when you pop the hood, facing the radiator. Two wire plug , it's near the back valve cover. Blast the hole the sensor goes into with a little break clean. ASSUMING the engine oil level is full.
You noise, if it is within the black timing covers facing the pass. side of the engine bay, is the idler or tensioner pullies for the timing belt.
On your original picture, those both have an internal bearing that can whine. If that bearing fails, the car can jump time.
FWIW: It could also be the water pump (to the right on the timing cover, the Power steering pump (is it full?) on the right of the WP, the alternator below the PS pump, or the AC compressor or idler bearing, which have their own baby belt on the firewall side of the timing cover.
That ain't lifters at all.
Adrian Johnson
Did you watch the video and hear the noise?
Carson Brown
That loud "putt putt" is the one you're talking about? That's some weird shit. Exhaust leak? Loose spark plug?
James Collins
Yeah. It's not lifters though? People told me that is the timing belt.
If it really is some "weird" shit though maybe that's why no one knows what it is exactly.
First thing I'd be doing is addressing the VVT solenoid code, and giving it a fresh oil change. 5w20 is the spec on that engine, but they're more than happy with 5w30. Call be old fashioned, but I don't care for a 20 weight unless it's a 0w20 synthetic.
That is 100% motor noise, at the frequency given, I'd agree with the lifters. That said, a short aggressive oil change interval.
You have HLAs in your motor. The can and will tick if neglected. That said, the tick is not a guarantee of impending doom, as bad as yours may be.
Mobil clean 5000 is a good cheap oil. Change your VVT solenoid, do some 1500 mile oil change intervals, see how it goes.
David Barnes
Yup, posted above. You got some noisy lifters.
Not a pulley, not in the timing belt system, not a timing cog or any of that.
Drive it, do some short oil change intervals. Clean it up the best you can. No aftermarket warranty company will likely play ball with you over lifter noise.
Can I quiet the lifters permanently? They are loud as fuck
Brayden Smith
Well, kind of not really.
The issue with the lifter design is that very little fresh oi can enter the lifter chamber. What oil is trapped with breaks down, and give you the tap.
In the miata world, people play with oil brand and weight. Some end up with mobil 1 0w20, other on cheap 5w30, others on Rotella 5w40.
Oil experimentation is your only real option. Full lifter replacement requires removal of both cams, and replace them with lifters of similar design.
Cooper Garcia
Also what about the third party shop saying the lifters were fine and it was most likely a timing gear? And the CE code?
Jason Lopez
And what oil and weight is currently in it? I saw you posted you have a fresh synthetic oil change.
Or at least, did you do the oil change, or what shop?
Jason Bennett
Lifters technically are fine. The valves open and close, the lifters are just noisy.
The 3rd party shop improperly described your timing gear type problem. On new cars, the timing gear is directly fed oil via the cam. On older designed cars (like the 1.6L in your car), there is a spool valve which directs oil flow, which changes the cam advance. The newer stuff is mostly serviced as one assembly. On older designs, the VVT solenoid can be replaced by itself.
Just a mix up of words, that solenoid is causing your code. There is a resistance spec test for it. I usually don't bother though.
Yours is working improperly. There is a link above I posted to a Dorman part replacement. Pretty common failure on these motors, even with good maintenance practices. It's a very straight forward repair. Remove engine cover, unplug, remove 1 10mm bolt, wiggle that bitch out, replace.
Nicholas Roberts
This MAY quiet the lifters some. As I posted above, the cam is not being advanced and retarded properly.
Addressing this problem will also bring back some mid-range power, as that with what the variable valve timings job is to improve.
Don't bank on much noise improvement, but you will notice it drive better.
Juan Nguyen
Would sludge cause the lifters to be loud like these? That's why the warranty company denied the repair.
Thanks for all the help.
Evan Stewart
>A third party company is the warranty provider That's why the dealership knows there's no money in this job unless they concoct a problem that isn't covered.
John Morgan
It's not a sludge issue. It's a "HLA lifter clearances are too tight by design for proper oil flow/exchange so the oil in the HLA breaks down and they tick" issue.
Sludge isn't part of the discussion. The car has 40k on it. If it got changed a half dozen times it would be more than sludge free.
Aftermarket warranties are ALWAYS a battle. I hate dealing with them. Sometimes you get a cool rep who knows what they're talking about and work gets approved and the customer is happy. Most of the time you get a retard on the other line who only cares about denying claims. I hate selling work on aftermarket warranties.
