/arena/ - Arena FPS General

Friendly Rivalry Edition

A place to discuss all of your favorite oldschool and modern arena shooters such as Quake Live, Quake Champions, Unreal Tournament, Reflex, etc.

Play Quakeworld for free: nquake.com/
Play Quake 2 for free: q2s.tastyspleen.net/
Play Unreal Tournament 4 for free: epicgames.com/unrealtournament/
Play Warsow for free: warsow.net/
Link to Quake 2 Starter with Quake 2 and its expansions (Quake 2 this sunday at 8PM EST):
mega.nz/#!EAxAlSwa!9v0PQ7QgN60mXDptMqWXvdAC2srSCnb7pGPqZojG2QI

Quake Champions closed beta signup: quake.bethesda.net/en/signup
QC beta waves are each week and usually last for 3-4 days each starting on either Thursday or Friday. The beta is under NDA, so post screenshots/webms with caution.

Previous Thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=Mxgs7yFFRHI
youtube.com/watch?v=vp7HQUqfvnU
youtube.com/watch?v=YZKyHtDIyfE
youtube.com/watch?v=vZecx_CuXXU
shutupandgame.blogspot.de/2012/03/hitscan-weapons-are-garbage-throw-them.html
youtube.com/watch?v=BjjKp3dHYxs&list=PLEOQ0YA_1DWmm_ZnPh9ZRJ2W3yjbzWy0E
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Somehow an average best player is always playing as the fattest hero. And those who manage to be the best with squishy champs like that stealth tumblrina, they have superior aim, which wouldn't be any worse when playing with dem greasy 150hp characters.

Being able to survive 2 heavy hits instead of 1 does wonders, allowing you recover. Say what you want, but Aim > HP > Speed.

Yeah, that's exactly the problem with hitscan dominance in the game right now. Low TTK in the current balance feeling shit is a personal issue, balance in regards to damage output being busted to the point of weapons being objectively 100% outclassed by others isn't.

Not even just that but in vq3 you start with 125 HP so that you can survive rails on spawn but in QC you have characters with around 70HP which just get destroyed by rail shots.

reminder that map control is more important than weapon accuracy

...

not atm until they change how stacks work

fact.

RA and Mega control is everything

Graphics? Okay at best.
Music and Voice quality? Shit.
Interface and controls? Alright.
Amount of content? Lacking.
Game balance? Fucking garbage.

+ everything lags

Quake Champions aka 'Shlomo requires more gold at the expense of that long buried franchise we dug up from the trash heap recently'

reminder to ignore and report the redditspacing retard

>Interface and controls? Alright.
Now I know you're shitposting

Those were fine compared to 95% of games in the industry. At least this one is made for PC, unlike dem awful console ports which can barely be controlled with keyboard and mouse.

it's a beta my man it's mostly placeholders

once it's finished it will be the definitive arena shooter for the next 20 years

abilities and different toons add another layer of strategy/skill to the game. veterans only hate it because they're too old to learn something new

>using hitscan on a weapon that uses bullets is lazy design.

Why? Says who? Explain your reasoning.
Bullets travel so quickly in real life that they're visibly imperceptible, meaning simulating a projectile at the same speed would just decrease the accuracy or performance of the simulation over the network compared to a hitscan calculation for little to no actual gain, unless you're suggesting that bullet-based weapons fire out nerf darts in which case making them fire dodgeable projectiles "Just because muh skill" is myopic too since doing that would homogenize, for example, HMG and SNG into two different damage/firerate values where the way they function now they could be balanced into two equally viable situational weapons just through tweaking damage values alone.

plasma gun never ever

> once it's finished it will be the definitive arena shooter for the next 20 years

Nah. Not only does the industry change it's main audience every decade, Quake is catering towards old veterans who are an absolute minority, while trying to shove the modern and hip MOBA elements in there, to attract the newfriends. In the end this game has an identity crisis, and most likely will be played by old farts trying to revisit some old memories, plus an occasional xxxTimmy666Destroyerxxx who enters to show his dominance to classmates, by spending his moms money on chests and backpacks full of virtual recolored armor.

>download update, boot up game
>stuck on loading screen
>10 minutes later main menu finally shows up
>queue up for duel
>get a match, both squares light up
>"The match has been canceled."
>why this
>requeue, pick champs, map starts loading
>its still loading 5 minutes later
>dont even play the match, get sent straight to main menu with no error message
>requeue, bla bla bla
>map only takes 30 seconds to load this time
>match starts, get in a fight, combat feels laggy
>210 ping
>w h y
>somehow get the frag regardless
>a few seconds later, pic related pops up
>im still connected to the server
>i can still talk in chat and hear the other guy jumping around and picking up items
>he can even see my message and responds
>game kicks me from the match
>sent to a login screen that i didnt have to go through when i booted up the game
>Bethesda account details dont even work
>"This has to be on my end, right?"
>turn off anything that could possibly be using internet, reboot router
>reboot up the game
>main loading screen only takes about 10 seconds this time, queue up for tdm
>get sarnath instead of covenant, another 5 minute loading screen
>215 ping again
>everyone else has 30-60 ping
>get the same error a minute through
>literally cannot play the game
>boot up reflex
>65 ping, no network errors whatsoever
Fun.

>fell for the reflex meme when CPMA can be played for free

youtube.com/watch?v=Mxgs7yFFRHI

you're late

Scoreboard ping display is busted, you can be shown 250ms while you really have 30 and vice-versa. It'd regularly say I had 30 while I was connecting to NA servers. I'm in Australia, so that's literally physically impossible.

> literally physically impossible

Slash is unfairly weakened by only being able to pick up 75 armor from the RA instead of 100. It just doesn't make sense to give Slash such a massive penalty over Nyx and Anarki

Nah, if you know how to properly crouchslide around corners her insane movement potential can more than makeup for that.

please let's not start this again. i have explained my reasoning multiple times already and at the end of the day it's just my opinion. it's ok for you to disagree with me. i just don't get how you can think that this is the "best shotgun design evarrr!!!!" when these exists

youtube.com/watch?v=vp7HQUqfvnU
youtube.com/watch?v=YZKyHtDIyfE
youtube.com/watch?v=vZecx_CuXXU

in my opinion projectiles are simply more rewarding as they are harder to land. in my opinion good game design is making the weapons as rewarding as possible. an airocket, where i have to predict the enemy's moves is more fun to me than a headshot, where i don't have to lead my shot.

again you can disagree with this, but don't act like your opinion is the objective truth. also note that i never called it 'bad design' i called it lazy (it requires objectively less effort than calculating travel time and bullet drop) and cheap (it is objectively cheaper to implement, as it requires less calculations). call it 'futuristic laserbeam shotgun' and it's fine with me. calling it the best 'shotgun' design ever just shows me that you have little fps experience outside of quake.
stop being so upset about different opinions, this is not a fucking circlejerk hugbox. i won't comment on this any further. i am done talking to you.

>unironically linking to meme videos
opinion completely, one hundred percent disregarded

how is it lazy when projectile weapons already exist in the game
also i doubt you have that much fps experience based on your three picks

...

if you know how to properly walljump or maximize air control, Anarki and Nyx more than make up for that

They made Slash the most fragile character in the game and there's no good reason why.

>Bad Company
Bullets are simulated because it's pseudo-real and combat is at a long enough range for the extra toll of sending the state of a bullet projectile over network to be additive to the experience. There's also zero concern in regards to network accuracy in *any* Battlefield game, so the networked simulations aren't accurate nor do they even try to be.
>Flak Cannon
Deals enough damage to oneshot without all projectiles connecting as the balance tradeoff for not being instant. Characters don't move anywhere near as fast so the tradeoff is less severe.
>Torb and Roadhog's
>Implying any sort of skill involved in hitting anything in Overwatch
>Implying network accuracy in the die around a wall to hitscanners 24/7 day game

this is just getting sadder and sadder. you know what, user? i'm starting to feel bad about this. picking on the handicapped kid just isn't very satisfying. instead, i'm going to brighten up your life a little. i'm going to be that one shining ray of light in your bleak existence.

i will let you have the last word.

so come on, let me have it. make it count. i'll gladly take it if it means you'll experience the sweet taste of victory for once in your life, and you can go to bed knowing you achieved something.

no.

>haha i cant make an argument so i will just pretend i won it :)))))
i dont know where the fuck you came from but you should probably go back

If this is your attempt at weaseling out of a situation where you're clearly fucking wrong I just want to let you know that absolutely nobody is buying it or on your side here. The effort is totally wasted. Maybe try the "I was trolling" defense next time.

>going full fedora

is this the same user that though plasma and nail didnt have splash damage

>getting butthurt over different opinions
i see, QC brought in all the kids. it's like i'm really on reddit.

>"wow this is literally objectively lazy less skill based design!"
>Gets told how it isn't
>"wow butthurt over different opinions much? it's literally just my opinion! it's literal and objective too, but just my opinion!"

I'm going to brighten up your life a little. I'm going to be that one shining ray of light in your bleak existence. I'm going to give you your last (You).

Here it comes.

that pasta really upset you, huh? i'm sorry, i didn't mean to hurt you feewings

>still acting like everyone hasn't been having a laugh at your expense for the last 4 hours

That toddler looks like an old man. Just color his hair grey and add some wrinkles, and you will get a 70 year old grandpa.

you are literally adding nothing to this thread, at least the other guy provided some arguments and an opinion of his own. why do you bother? what is the point of your posts?

reminder to join quake 2 this sunday

shutupandgame.blogspot.de/2012/03/hitscan-weapons-are-garbage-throw-them.html

It really does suck getting one shot by RG before you can build some kind of a stack. At the same time RG dmg has always been 80 the zoom function makes it a million times more broken, so i'm not really sure how ID fixes the RG without trashing the zoom.

>say you're not accepting any arguments because you're too smallbrain to keep responding
>"lmao what are y000 contributing to the thread??? why aren't you posting arguments that i just said id ignore???"

ahahahaha holy shit it keeps going.

what are you on about?

>IP doesn't go up
>Literally the only person to have posted in this thread with anything positive to say about Projectileguy since the beginning of the thread has been Projectileguy himself

The RG damage was 100 in Quake 2 and 3 and it was nerfed in CPM and QL. Not sure if I'm misinterpreting your post.

i wasn't talking about myself, you fucking moron. i was talking about the guy i was arguing with for hours. he provided arguments. he was able to make comments that contributed to the discussion.
this guy
did not. i don't understand what the point of his posts is

Laughing at you because you're fucking retarded, presumably.

i'm retarded for having a different opinion?

IP bump

answer the question or tell me exactly where i was 'wrong', i honestly don't understand. no, i'm not pretending and no, i'm not upset. just curios

>when you continually get armor shaders for everyone but your main
send help

>spend 4 hours arguing that hitscan makes a game objectively less skillbased, calling people retarded etc.
>run out of actual arguments
>suddenly it's just a different opinion

same. hello user

Patrician tier: Ranger, Galena, Visor
Acceptable tier: Slash, Anarki
You're playing the wrong game: Everyone else
Kill you are self irl real life: Nyx

Good tier: Ranger
Worse than Ranger tier: Everyone else.

Weaknesses in mobility, health and size are too severe on every other champ. Lack of a worthwhile active ability pushes Visor just slightly below Ranger. Scalebearer and Sorlag's "murder the whole fucking room" actives almost pull them out of the trashcan their speed and hitboxes put them in but not really.

Those are based on how cancer the classes themselves are, not balance

>hitscan makes a game objectively less skillbased
how is that wrong? please explain.

are you still claiming that pointing a laser pointer at someone takes as much skill as leading your shots? how is clicking on something in your los as skillful as memorizing item timings and predicting the enemies position based on that? the former is reflexes + hand-eye coordination. the latter is the same, but also requiring prediction of movement and knowing the timings. projectiles add another layer of skill, called gamesense.

are you seriously denying that?

for the record: i am not saying that hitscan should be removed from the game

For Quake Champions why would anybody pick a class if it didn't have 150 hp? I feel like spawning with more health is a massive advantage, even if you do move a bit slower.

who /visor/ here

Still stands.
On the plus side, Ranger Tier doesn't overlap with your Cancer Tiers.

Slash quotes:

>I'm going to flip you like a table (menu selection)
>Guess who's baack (entering game)
>Sploosh hahaha
>Skank (I think this is on fragging Sorlag)
>My skates were totally having a malfunction
>RRRGH!
>Piss off bozo!
>Deededede doo
>I doubt you've ever been that hard chump
>What are you waiting for? You blow them up!(not sure if I got this one right)
>They said I could be anything, so I became an agent of CHAOS
>SKATE or DIE! (only saw this twice both times fragging another Slash using her active ability while also using Slash's active ability)
youtube.com/watch?v=BjjKp3dHYxs&list=PLEOQ0YA_1DWmm_ZnPh9ZRJ2W3yjbzWy0E
>Wheeeee!

I need help getting more.

Also, ffs id Software this game is fighting for WORST audio engine on a modern game in 2017. Zero positional sound, sound volume is totally whack. You can actually hear other players(and their speech) but it's so quiet you have to be literally on top of them.

>5 hours of playtime and I have never played anything but Ranger

EASYMODE HARDMODE

>Heavies
Easy: Scalebearer
Middle: Sorlag
Hard: Clutch

>Lightweights
Easy: Nyx
Middle: Anarki
Hard: Slash

>Middleweights
Easy: Galena
Middle: Ranger
Hard: Visor

>Hard: Visor
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>sorlag
>not retarded easy

kys

His active does fucking nothing.
>You see guys through the wall. Maybe they're close enough that it makes a difference or it's at the right time for it to make a difference in a fight. BIG maybe. The biggest.
Meanwhile
>Galena: Heal yourself or your teammates AND drop a damaging mine
>Ranger: Teleport to escape, deal damage or potentially even 1hk someone

Same, and dont think so. Companies want the extra datamining of your computer and its activity.

Scalebearer is easier.

wallhack is very useful in duel

>toons

Quake is an anime not a cartoon.

will they add more heroes to the beta before the game launches?

Goggle man is Razor, or Biker

They want 100% of the profit from every microtransaction.
That's literally it. Steam would get them a larger and more willing audience but they take a cut and Bethesda can't see how they're setting themselves up for failure.

>Quake is an anime
i thought quake was a vido gam ??????

Quake is a comic book, you fucking faggots.

But I've never played Q2 multiplayer, only Quakeworld and Q3A.

I do not like these lines.

So is Visor strogg or what?

>glance at task manager
>champions using >10gb ram
Quality

Man i hope le Pen brings a chaingun and a quad to the election

yeah, i had to try to launch it like 5 times before it would start because of repeated memory leaks.

then you're in for a treat

no hes just a cybernetic made by the ruskies
strogg is a group of aliens who collect lifeforms and staple machines onto them

I know Scalebearer is annoying with the charge but I still dont think heavies are viable in this game especially with them taking extra damage vs lightning gun

Not every cyborg in quake is a strogg

Besides strogg suck anyway they are like edgy Borg

pleb

yeah, at least 12 on release so all of those will be beta tested first

>augh! it's getting way too emo in here

>this image

A projectile weapon can be more skillbased depending on splash radius, damage, travel time, size of the projectile, speed of the enemy. A projectile weapon isn't inherently more skillbased just for using a projectile. Making a weapon projectile-based just because "muh projectile more skillbased!" without considering all the other aspects of the game is short sighted.

A projectile weapon in a space where it doesn't fit balance-wise will be ignored and contribute nothing to the game. A projectile weapon that will be ignored and also comes at the expense of a weapon that already suits its role in the game perfectly fine (the shotgun) removes a viable option from the game that would make it more skillbased by introducing an extra layer of thought into what weapon you're going to use in a situation. In this case, viability in different situations so that it's *actually used in high level play* takes precedence over the mechanical difficulty of the weapon and in Quake 3 it is balanced in kind: high but not insane damage at close range, low but reliable damage at a distance. If you made the shotgun mechanically identical to the flak cannon's primary fire, you'd get a conefire weapon that can bounce off of walls that fills those roles so poorly in the high speed context of Quake to be useless in every other aspect outside of close range, where the travel time matters least to mechanical skill. There is already a weapon in Quake called the Grenade Launcher that can hit people around walls, that takes more effort to connect since it needs to hit directly or be timed to explode at the right time. Flak cannon in Quake would make the game less skill based by putting a less skill based gun in that role.

Lastly, the argument that all bullet weapons should utilize projectiles because "bullets aren't lasers in real life!!! it should be called the laser shotgun then!!!" is pedantic as fuck and retarded for reasons obvious to pretty much anyone aside from you apparently.

Why is the shotgun the most inconsistent piece of shit in quake ever?

We fixed this a while ago. Now all T. Willy has to do is catch up.

Just dont use it as a dedicated killing weapon

In QC its a special kind of bad to me though increase the fire rate of tighten the spread

It feels extra powerful and cheap in QC but that might just be because most guys aren't building stack or even recovering health between fights and are getting demolished.

Its really inconsistent to me in QC I dont know why

Im not the best quake player either but it just feels weird compared to live

To be fair, nothing is consistent in QC right now