Am i crazy for liking this thing? it's not that much heavier than the NA and has more horsepower

Did you try out brz ? With stock tires you have to drive smooth. Other wise rear end comes out easy. When I had Frs I would just drift instead of U-turns.

Brz is not a quite car but they are better then miata. If you love driving with top down, I guess it really don't matter.
both are great cars for everyday fun, except on freeway.

You're saying the rear steps out more easily in a BRZ than a miata? Are you talking driving dynamics or when you try to take off from a stop?

Because except for spinning tires from a stop, the BRZ feels like a nothingburger unless you push it around.

I just found it more exciting. There was a sharper edge to the handling. I classify the the Miata as fun whereas the BRZ was exciting and made me want to push harder

How fast and what kind of roads? I find myself caught between wanting to motor along at 30MPH and feel like the quintessential lad on a Sunday and the way the BRZ just lets you play go-kart and you want everybody else to get out the way so you can wring it out.

Or maybe that's what you just said.

I'm not a cruising type of guy so the top downness of the Miata doesn't matter to me.

All the driving I did was on the touge, ringing the neck of the cars, trying to push harder and harder. The Miata was fun to a point but once you pushed past that point it didn't feel composed. It's really good at fun stuff at lower speeds and it makes you feel like you are going faster. The BRZ was encouraging me to push harder and even with low levels of tyre grip you could feel the balance of the chassis and the level of control.

Cruising and laugh out loud fun, probably Miata
Pushing hard and adrenaline rushes, probably BRZ

>it didn't feel composed
I can't decide which kind of person I am, but the BRZ is so composed that it makes me wonder where to beat on it more before it goes wrong except in the snow.

I think you are thinking composed means grip. When I say composed I mean that the chassis wasn't overwhelmed by me pushing hard. Even past the level of grip I could maintain a level of control. That sort of thing allows you to push to ten tenths and get the most out of the car.

>grip
No, I don't use grippy tires. I use tires that start to make noise before I get in to trouble.

I mean composed. The same tires from my last car don't make noise. The BRZ just goes that much further with them and I ask myself why aren't they squealing yet.

Are there any significant differences between the BRZ, FR-S, and GT86?

The new Toyobarus have shorter gears, less twitchy suspension setups, and refined interiors this year. The Miata is great if you are a manlet.

I don't know about the current model year, but the spring rates used to be different such that the Toyota version was stiffer in the rear and therefore more tail-happy.

While the professionals thought the Subaru version was more capable at the track, I think for daily use the BRZ could do with a stiffer spring rate in the rear if for nothing else than easing over speed bumps.

Why can't we just get a car equivalent to a sportbike already?

Zero creature comforts. No AC. Max uncomfy. No low end power whatsoever. Only as heavy and big as it needs to be to pass regulations. Basically a cheaply produced homologation special that sells for less than 20 grand.

Do we need a racing series for such vehicles (with the homologation requirement) to kick it off?

Just suspension/interior.
Early gt86 were raw and they got softer and more DD friendly as time went.
Spring rate is diffferent between subaru and Toyota. But I think you get more from brz then Toyota. If I were to buy twin again(I might, I just don't see cheap light rwd car other then Miata) it will be brz performance package

Honda did with s2000 cr. But I remember sales were low and I personally don't know anyone who got the non a/c version.

Lotus Elise comes pretty close.

Zenos E10?

Subaru also tried to edge toward a stripped down version of the STi at first USDM release. Turned out more murricans just wanted more power and comfort than worrying about the unsprung weight of inverted shocks and all that.

It's shame, twins were what everybody wanted and when it came out .... well you see how Veeky Forums sperg on them.
I guess some people were expecting 300hp turbo for under 20k price

make it light enough and you only need a 1.5l NA engine with 200hp maybe. possibly just 1l.

>no low end power whatsoever
>1 star crash ratings but it's still technically legal

When the put out the 2005 Legacy Wagon or whatever it was with the 2.5 turbo STi engine, it was like a girl took your hand and forced it down her panties.

I guess they followed up with the H6 models, but who talks about those? Yo wouldn't need 300hp for a BRZ. Cut out the torque dip and give it 230hp and you'd have a great next generation.

If they stay with n/a boxer engine, torque dip isn't going anywhere. But I heard that Toyota and subaru is both going to move forward with 2nd gen. And biggest complaint has been power. Let's see how this works out

There's nothing inherent about a boxer engine that causes a torque dip. I drove an N/A EJ22 for a while and it it was smooth in terms of delivery, cable carb, cable clutch.

The 205HP or whatever you get from the FA20 can take aftermarket tunes, exhaust, etc. to take out the dip, and that's not counting what they do with the WRX turbo version. It wouldn't be hard to offer a little bit more after five years to keep the market segment going. Hell, why not offer retrofits?

Because the mechanical grip from the BRZ chassis is incredible.

Honestly the BRZ/86 platform has one of the most unbelievable chassis. Anybody who has driven one with good tyres will tell you just how good they are

It's not quite an STI engine but it's pretty close.

t. '05 Legacy GT Wagon owner

Its all in the emissions standards it needs to meet and the benchmarks that it would need to meet for the company. That is the sole purpose of the torque dip, to gain good MPG around town but provide performance up top. Toyota management would have stipulated some form MPG needs or the projects gets canned.

Then again it isn't a big deal for those who own one. There are so many plug in tunes available for all sorts of fuels. Less than $300 gets you access to them.

Toyota should do a V6 TRD version though.

Nice header will fix the dip. Intake header e85 was pretty fun. I wish engine had more higher rpm

spring rate is only different for 13-14 my, in 15 they changed them all to brz's spring rate which is neutral compared to 13-14 frs's oversteer tendencies. i do not know if there is a difference between the two in the 17 my but the suspension feels less twitchy/bumpy after the refresh.

Toyota don't have the balls to put v6. If engine gets update, it will be turbo

The chassis is pretty crazy. Shortly after I got mine I made a m8 drive it who is no stranger to expensive cars. His remark about bad pavement?

>holy shit
>i guess this must be the chairs?
>why does it feel like this?
>heh heh

It's a fuckin great platform if they run with it.

My 15 was better then older ones. I heard that 17 got even better

>I wish engine had more higher rpm
Yep. It fucking begs for an 8k redline, and that would be such an easy way to put up better magazine numbers. It's a thing of beauty to take it out to the existing redline, especially when you have to get it up to 5.5k just to feel a connection in your foot.

I'm just amazed at the amount of grip that chassis can pull out of the stock tyres.

Seriously when you think about the lack of grip that those tyres provide and then look at lap times its insane.

...

Who cares about lap times? What's insane is you thought you were driving something decent before and now you just toss it in to shopping center while you're cruising down the road and the tires barely squeal and you're thinking more about how to angle it forward to find an open parking place, and preferably one where nobody is going to ding your door.

It's hard to get in to as an everyday car, but it just delivers more the harder you bang on it.