What should I look for

>I didn't take the MSF course so you shouldn't either

Opinion fucking discarded.

If you can't afford take the MSF course you can't afford to ridez simple as that.

Learning how to do the basic aspects of riding in a closed environment is a much much better idea than doing it on the street where you don't have an instructor to teach you or give advice.

>inb4 go to a quiet street and watch YouTube videos

1/10 I replied

>If you can't afford take the MSF course you can't afford to ridez simple as that.
>Youtube videos
>Quiet street
God, what a bunch of fucking pussies. What happened to simply learning something on your own? Can't learn without moto-daddy holding your little faggot milennial hand?
It's a simple machine and the roads arent that hard. FFS, learn on the fly.
You make me fucking sick. You lack imagination, initiative, and a basic willingness to take risks and experiment. I'm embarrassed to be a fucking millenial. I'm embarrassed that my generation is full of cucks like you.
>closed environment is much better idea.
Somehow that means it's the only idea and anybody who isn't a privileged little cunt with money to burn can't ride...? Fuck you.

>Making insults about being pussies
>Discards perfectly good advice that makes use of availability of means to fucking learn things safely
This is such a sound advice. I see nothing wrong with it.

get a 600 faggot

>MSF course costs a couple hundred bucks, less than it's gonna costs me to replace bodywork on the 250 im going to inevitably buy and wreck because i gotta impress some dumb nobody on Veeky Forums
>hey lets go buy a several thousand dollar machine that can cut my ass in half with no prior training

>perfectly good advice
The only advice in that post was "if you dont have the money to burn on msf, you can't ride a bike."
Their shit about youtube videos was sarcastic retoric, not advice.
It is sound advice, it it had been delivered as such, but it wasn't.
>Sound advice, nothing wrong with it.
There's plenty wrong with it, and it's not the last word on bikes.
I'm just suggesting the increasingly radical notion that the barriers to entry into the sport, like msf, are unnecessary and artificial.
The advice is sound enough to have carried me through 10 years of riding, racing, wrenching, etc. I've never taken a "Motorcycle Scared Faggot" course, and I didn't have a license for my first 4 years dailying a fuckin bike.. I just wanted to ride a fuckin bike, so I did. What's so crazy about that? Nothing.

There you go with insults again.
Look, who hurt you? Point on this doll where they touched you that made you humorless and insecure.

Just because you went without license and went riding without a safety course, doesn't mean others should take the chances that you have.
I have seen many hurt, even died, within my circle of friends. If NSF helps others from meeting the same fate, so be it.

no one cares nerd

anyone who has access to the msf and doesnt do it on the sole pretense that it makes them uncool deserves to go over a cliff because they locked up the front brake

>Impress some dumb nobody
You aren't gonna impress anyone. Just do it if you want, don't use the barriers to entry as an excuse not to ride.
If you have the time and money for the education, fuck it, do it the fuck up. I'd have pocketed the cash for parts, tires, tools, or toward a better bike, but it's a free fuckin country.

>anyone who has access to the msf and doesnt do it on the sole pretense that it makes them uncool
Nothing to do with that. I started by talking about people who don't have access to msf instruction when they are starting out due to cost.

You're not the centre of the universe dear, and nobody has to do everything the same way you did.

If someone wants to take the MSF course, then power to them. Just because you're a special snowflake that for some reason chose not to take it doesn't mean that your way is the only way.

Hell, the insurance discount is probably worth the couple hours of time spent.

Okay, but
>I don't have access to $200-300 for MSF course
>But I have access to $1000-2000+ to spend on a bike I can call my own, not to mention the safety gears you should be getting along with the said bike
I'm having a hard time believing that

>Just because you went without license and went riding without a safety course, doesn't mean others should take the chances that you have.
I agree. Similarly, just because some people have taken a class, doesn't mean they should go around telling everyone else it should be a mandatory barrier to entry.
>I have seen many hurt, even died, within my circle of friends. If NSF helps others from meeting the same fate, so be it.
Nobody wants to see anyone hurt or dead. There are plenty of helmeted corpses with an MSF education, and plenty without. Shit's dangerous. I don't think making it safer is a bad idea, I just balk at the notion that it should be mandatory...

The FZ6S is a god tier bike for beginners and experienced motorcyclists.

That said take a course and drop someone else's bike because you probably suck dick at this.

This is bullshit. Do not listen to this man.

I have rode everything from liter I4s, an R1m included, to liter twins to 800cc and 750cc V4s to various singles and 250/500cc parallel twins and an FZ7 with the ptwin+meme crankshaft, and let me tell you, revvy i4s are not gutless or unusable. Goddamn you can and probably will sit in second gear all fucking day on one.

Anyone bitching is a hooligan that wants to be able to power wheelie at any given time without having to shift or speed up, or a dumbass who thinks you need to stay between 2000 and 5000RPM like a car. Hell, on some EFI bikes running a gear low will actually give you worse gas mileage because the bike will run richer at those revs, as the spluttering from your exhaust's air injection system will tell you.

Do not start on a 250 shitbike unless you don't intend to take a course or have taken a course and still think you're borderline incompetent, but have potential anyways.

>I don't have access to $200-300 for MSF course
>But I have access to $1000-2000+ to spend on a bike I can call my own, not to mention the safety gears you should be getting along with the said bike
Try this
>Just under 1000 dollar first bike
>Bike jeans, used leather jacket and used DOT helmet less than 100 all in
>hiking boots for the first 2 months in lieu of real mc boots because not another spare dime.
>need transport for work
>need gas and first oil change too...

I disagree. MSF courses are a reasonably low barrier of entry, and while it can't help or save everyone, I think benefits of it is significant enough to strongly suggest it.

One less drop of bike or a wipeout prevented would easily be considered a recoup for the cost of the course, as well, so I think it would have paid for itself should you have decided to get a bike after the course.

And then a year later some deferred maintenance kills you

>forks leak oil all over the brakes, if you don't die from that you die from the front end chattering due to the lack of oil in the shocks
>assuming you still have brake pads, $20 a set is too much
>steering head bearing is fucked, die in a tankslapper
>tires are worn dead, you can't spare $300 for a new set so you become a sacrifice to the skid demon
>clutch cable snaps and you can't figure out how to downshift. panic and crash or end up stranded.

This fuckers an idiot, ignore him.

>You're not the centre of the universe dear, and nobody has to do everything the same way you did.
I agree, you just have to fix your post to include the people shilling the msf courses and suggesting they should be mandatory...

No. Just no. If you need transport for work, you can easily Uber it. You can also get a reasonable shitbox without needing additional instructions for riding without much of a bump in overall cost.
>Used helmet
Bruh

He's 100% right

go stick your dick in your SV650's exhaust

Salty much?

Or do you just enjoy attempted murder?

Eh the only really wrong thing he said was "carbs are okay"

There's not a lot in the BRC you can't learn yourself or get from a friend or instructional vids and booklets. In the end, bikes are less about knowing what to do and more about feeling what to do.

And honestly it's better to take a skills test on your bike than one of the MSF's scooters.

>do MSF
>pass skills test on a 125cc dirtbike or something
>go home
>get on your nina 250 which is a supersport in comparison
>try and do a U turn
>crash

>If you need transport for work, you can easily Uber it.
I started riding long before uber was a thing.
Uber doesn't compare to the cost of operating a motorcycle anyway, not even close.
>You can also get a reasonable shitbox without needing additional instructions for riding without much of a bump in overall cost.
The overall cost bump for a shitbox car is fucking enormous. Annual liability insurance premium on a bike was roughly equal to monthly insurance on a shitbox.
Not to mention maintenence and fuel...
Besides, Riding is fun. If you're not having fun, life is not worth living.

If you can't do a u-turn on a Ninja 250 after learning on a 125cc dirtbike you shouldn't be riding, period.

>get a motorcycle for free from a retiring relative
>teach self to drive it on country roads and watching youtube videos, drop it once or twice but only cosmetic damage to bike and I wore proper equipment so I was fine
>pass license test on first try, never had a single incident or close call

I dont get you guys. The MSF course is a waste of money.

You're just arguing for the sake of it now.

You can't turn the bars as much on a ninja 250 and it has a longer wheelbase/wider turning circle so if you're used to a scooter you'll probably fail to do a U turn or figure eight in the same amount of space you were allotted for the skills test.

And you're talking shit because there is literally is no reason not to take the MSF course.

You make it sound like it's some impossibility when anyone with half a brain would just adjust for the bike.

Most people I know don't know shit about clutches
Most people I know have only basic experience with balance.
Most people I know have never been something that could rear back on him if you twist the throttle the wrong way.
Most people i know have little to no understanding of basic vehicle physics.

Telling someone that 4cylinders are ok for a beginner, or that not taking the MSF is ok and letting them find out the hard way of how to handle something that can go in excess of 60 easily, Or they won't drop their bike is ignorant at best, irresponsible at worst.

Granted I did not take the MSF but I've worked on vehicles for years and had understanding of how clutches, suspension and power bands work, and even then it was a huge learning curve.

Or just learn on that bike in the first place

Granted, you can bring your own bike to the MSF and the instructors will help you learn to handle it if they're not shit. But nothing they teach is rocket science and twist of the wrist and random youtube videos are an okay substitute for people with an IQ score greater than 110.

Personal anecdotal evidence doesn't preclude the need for a safety course.

Not everyone gets a hand-me-down bike; not everyone can learn properly from YouTube videos; some may actually need some seat time on a loaner bike to realize the riding is/isn't for them.

if you can't teach yourself and don't have a mechanically oriented mind you probably shouldn't ride a motorcycle in the first place

you're just asking to be one of those guys who does it on weekends for "a season" and then sells their bike to the next guy for what they bought it for

>if you don't fit what I think a motorcyclist should be then you shouldn't ride

ftfy

>if you can't teach yourself and don't have a mechanically oriented mind you probably shouldn't ride a motorcycle in the first place

Your missing the point, some people don't know that beforehand.

So what you're saying is,
>neither of us took msf
>at least one of us started on a revvy 4.. A 636, for instance...
>at least 4 in this thread didn't take the course and wouldn't have anyway...
>all of us are alive and see nothing wrong with hiw we did things...
Yet encouraging the same thing is somewhere between irresponsible and ignorant?
Please, tell me more...

no really, if you don't fit that description you will never, ever grasp how to ride a motorcycle and should probably stay away from RWD cars too.

>We came out fine, so it must be okay for everyone to ignore the safety courses meant for beginners that's offered as an instructor-led bunny slope session/intro to bikes!
Look
Just

You're like drug user that thinks since pot is safe, some how he won't magically overdose on heroin, or thinks that all drugs affect other people the same way as it does him.

Some people need to stick to alcohol and soft shit and some people don't need to do drugs at all, if you can't see that then, I'm sorry you're a moron.

That's a shitty analogy.

It's more like machine shop. Some guys can teach themselves because they aren't idiots. It wouldn't hurt for them to have instruction but it's not strictly necessary. Some guys are just idiots and need instruction, and then once it clicks and you get them going it's fine. The gals that grew dicks by mistake need instruction, but they'll still be fucked once that instruction ends.

People who ask Veeky Forums about how to into bike are normally in the third group. The second group doesn't know Veeky Forums exists, or that there's an internet outside of youtube. The first group is most people.

>The first group is most people.

How often do you get out of your own house?

Most people are absolute idiots and fall into the second or third group.....

At anyrate my analogy was fine.

older 636s and CBRs to some extent are actually really fucking easy to ride as far as sportbikes go. they have flatter, higher, broader clipons and midrange that actually exists.

Yeah but when someone comes waltzing onto an enthusiast forum to ask questions, they should be prepared to filter through a range of anecdotes and advide and decide what feels right for them... Maybe they get into recreation, maybe they decide it's not for them, maybe they overdo the fucking shit out of it and kill the fuck out of themselves... Not too likely but possible. I'm sharing my own experience, op is a big boy, they can work it out. Beats the fuck out of giving them some hypocritical load of dog shit I don't believe myself...

Most people I meet are white, woke ass niggas, or the cream of far east asia's crop and live above the poverty line. I don't know where you live. The south?

Yeah, and when you buy one with a handlebar conversion top triple, no plastic, and a crash cage, it's even easier...

Basically a shitty FZ6 at that point.

Yeah, kinda... A shitty fz6 with a chunk of extra HP and a few thousand extra revs to play with...
And it's a kawaiisaki...
But defeinitely shittier in the IDGAF cosmetics department.

>It's a cheap crapasaki instead of a yamaha godbike
hence the shitty part

>starting on any bike other then the Suzuki DRZ400SM

it's like you want to be a shit rider

Doesn't matter what bike as long as you can do doriftos

Ironically, shit riders gravitate to motards like the DR-Z.

The answer is always GS500