Y'know, the decline of the manual is really a shame. Not just from the enthusiast point of view...

Y'know, the decline of the manual is really a shame. Not just from the enthusiast point of view, but from the practical point of view as well. In my eyes, the manual is the best compromise out of the available types of transmission.

Think about it. The manual is the simplest and cheapest to design and produce of the transmission designs, and that simplicity lends itself to durability as well. It also allows the driver to drive as efficiently or as sporty as they want and, subjectively, is the most engaging driver to car experience.

Compare it to the other popular transmission types:

CVTs are objectively superior for efficiency because they can keep the engine in it's most efficient range. On the other hand, they're expensive and fairly delicate pieces of machinery and are usually not very engaging to drive.

Traditional automatics are better for fuel economy on paper, but the data I've seen shows that it doesn't usually shake out that way outside of laboratory condition MPG testing. They are also, of course, more costly and complicated pieces of equipment than a manual. There's also the whole automatic part of automatic transmission; they're usually tuned for efficiency or sport and nothing in between, taking control from the driver. Newer automatics with different modes are admittedly better about this, but are still tuned a certain way that results in shifts that I as the driver may not have chosen to do were I in direct control.

DCTs haven't impressed me either. My experience with them is that, in automatic mode, they rev 500-1k over where I would shift for normal driving and in manual mode the paddle shifters aren't very intuitive to work and require compromising my grip on the steering wheel. They can shift very fast, but they are also very complicated and delicate things.

This isn't meant to be a transmission war thread, just wanting to put my viewpoint out there and see some discussion with yours.

Most base boxes still come in manual for many of the reasons you stated.

The real issue is engineers throw an autism fit knowing that manual transmissions are still better than their 10 speed turd they spent millions developing and cry for their brand to drop the manual so it doesn't make them look bad.

objectively DCT is the best. we only like manual because MUH ENGAGEMENT

Aren't manuals also a lot sturdier than autos, meaning you don't really need to do anything major until 200k, like the clutch plate? And that being said, I think I remember reading that larger engines will require much more pressure from the clutch, which I assume would become a problem for semi trucks.

You mean PDK-S. Not a regular DCT, and not even a normal PDK. PDK-S is literally the god transmission.

You forgot to mention one of the most important aspects to me:
Control. There's a direct mechanical connection between the shifter and the gearbox, whereas on a DCT, torque converter auto or CVT you're asking a computer to carry out a certain task and it depends on its programming whether it actually does so or not.
This ties into reliability again too, as electronics can glitch out in ways a mechanical linkage or cable never will.

I agree user. Driving autos are so depressingly boring. I will drive a proper 3 pedal manual for so long as I am capable of doing so.

>people who drive auto
these people enjoy having computers make decisions for them

I like proper auto clutch semi automatic transmission you see in supercars

Manuals still outperform DCT on the track

Sequentials > all in terms of track performance

Fuck off with benchracing.
Various DCT transmissions still have teething issues in low-mid end cars. Ye olde stuff is tried and true

is it ok to park in gear without pushing the clutch in? it pops in and out of gear without clutch when the engine is off anyway

Yeah, those are the things I'm talking about.

>is it ok to park in gear without pushing the clutch in?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Normally you'd push the clutch in when coming to a stop then let it back out after you'd shut the engine off.

Truth right here
Sequential=racing
Manuel=reliability
CVT=efficiency
Auto=drag racing
CCM=retarded
Tiptronic=lying to yourself
DCT=rich fags who can't decide

Honestly, why don't they put sequentials in normal cars?
Bikes have them since forever and they're perfectly DDable
I've blown the synchros in my little shitbox and it's fun as fuck to have to match the gears, if they didn't cost more than 2k I'd get one to swap into

Try 20k

>the decline of manuals
When was this?

Sqs is 2.3k

a n air shifted sequential out of your average racecar is 20k. a bubba welded dog ring conversion trans is much closer to 4k.

clutch-less pneumatic sequential is the best
its like manual but with none of the worn shift forks and driver fuckups
but if car makers really gave a shit two stage planetary gearboxes would be more common
muh push start

These threads always bring out the most bus riders.

One big thing I’ve experienced is that autos suck asshole for towing near/over the specified tow rating. If you’re using a big 3500 pickup to tow a small trailer with just a motorcycle then it’s a non-issue... but when you tow a 2300lb camper with a 150hp car rated to tow 2800 lb, it gets hairy and kills the torque converter and trans if you have an automatic. It’s still stressful for the same car with a manual, but you have much more control over what the engine is doing, like shifting at 4.5k rpm instead of 2.5 like the auto does so you can stay in the power and longer, and downshifting before a hill rather than having the auto hunt for a gear while you climb.

Admittedly this isn’t a big issue in the US since most people here have ‘Muh giant pickup’ or big fuckoff SUVs. I hate tall vehicles and like that my car gets pretty good gas mileage, and I only tow 4-5 times a year, (which is about 500x more than the average truck owner anyway) so justifying a fuckhuge truck just for that would be hard for me, especially since I already have 3 cars.

In heavy traffic no. Parts wear a lot faster in manual.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand manual transmissions. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of clutch physics most of the jokes will go over a typical drivers head. There's also the user's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Jeremy Clarkson literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who can't use manual transmissions truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in driving stick's existential battle "how the fuck do I hillstart," which itself is a cryptic reference to proving yourself as a competent driver. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Doug DeMuro's genius wit unfolds itself on their YouTube windows. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Save the Manuals tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the bros' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 gears of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

clutchflites are super underrated

The fuck you smoking
You can get an h dogleg conversion for pennies and a full sequential for thousands
Obviously you're gonna pay more for a full tranny rated to ridiculous torque, but this is really not the case

each centrifugal clutch gives two ratios in continuous mech and can be stacked to 4 or 6 ratios easy
rotating mass ? what's that

That's going to be because transmissions in cars aren't meant to be towing. An auto in a big pickup is going to be made, geared and programmed to tow.

Americans don't tow with cars because they usually aren't even rated to tow anything, even if they are rated for 3000lbs in Europe. That's because Americans tow at higher speeds with the weight of the trailer pushing down on the car, versus Europe where the trailers are designed with their weight over the trailer axles so the car is mostly just pulling weight instead of having that weight on the suspension. American way lets you tow at higher speeds but requires beefier suspension.

Where I'm going with that is, your little hatchbacks that might be towing a small caravan in Europe probably just have the manual transmission; it's mostly Murricans who want autos in even their little cars, so the auto really doesn't even need to be able to tow.

I'm actually being sure to get a manual for my next car just so I can hook up a small trailer from time to time.
Clutch and syncros, sure. But a manual still has less that can go wrong, and fixing a worn clutch isn't a big job.

>driver engagement
Cars are tools for going from A to B. Nothing else.

>I am a boring person who lives a boring life
Notice I said that driver engagement was a subjective thing.

Outside of that, manuals are still beneficial for you as the driver for reasons of cost, upkeep, and simplicity.

This.
Want engagement? Get a bike.

Just pick and chose what suits you and your life style the best.

People get so nihilistic over what transmission is in another person's vehicle.
What difference does it make to you? You have your manual gearbox in your vehicle, be happy with it and move on.
You're wasting time stressing over something that isn't very important and it makes you out to be a jackass.

Personally, I think it would be best to get any vehicle with any transmission you desire, but the world isn't fair and manufacturers don't care.

The best course of action you can do is suck it up and move on.

I don't care what someone else drives. Auto? Fine. Manual? Also fine. I'm only positing that a manual is the best compromise between all different types of transmission.

>The best course of action you can do is suck it up and move on.
Literally never the best course of action.
In this case, I believe the best course of action is to only pay for what you want. I want a manual. Car is only automatic? Looks like I'm not buying that car.

Hobbies are hobbies for a reason.
I think you're on the wrong board.

No problems here, this post is fact.

automatics have a higher hp ceiling before needing rebuilt/upgraded to hold more power. they also have torque multiplication through the torque converter for launching, something that a manual cannot do. they are also way better than a manual for 4x4 or rock crawling.

manuals feel better to drive, they are generally cheaper, lighter and more reliable (under normal driving conditions). however manuals do not take well to launching at the drag strip, and cannot hold the same amount of power that an automatic can be built to withstand (atleast, not a run of the mill manual. the lenco pictured can)

cvt's have the most power potential out of all transmissions, but are very fragile and expensive to repair relegating them to the shitboxes and gas saver's only. however if a manufacture came out with a racing cvt trans that could hold 1000ish hp it would dominate the dragstrip. only time will tell if that is a pipe dream or reality.

dct is a meme, if shift time is that important you might as well get an automatic, sequential or faceplated manual.

If I'm on the right track, automatics and that Lenco can handle stupid power because planetary gearsets are tough by nature.

I own a shitbox with a CVT and can't turbo it because it will be too much torque on the trans. I've driven a VW with Tiptronic, its hella fun, just not true Manual.

thats correct, but there are multiple things that the lenco has thats different than a manual or automatic.

first off the planetary gears are very large and robust, making them stronger than there auto counterparts. however they are also actuated by a band that wraps around the drum to actuate the gear. this reduces rotating mass (such as a synchronizer or dog tooth engagement) and means you can shift at any time up or down without clutching and not cause additional wear on any components.

Now I'm a bit stupid when it comes to automobile components, but why hasn't anyone made a single-clutch automatic that engages the gear the same way a DCT does? it seems like it would be a lot simpler than an DCT, with maybe a minor loss in performance from the fact that switching the gears takes a second since you can't just swap to your second clutch smoothly.

well an automatic basically is a single clutch dct, only it has multiple clutches to activate multiple gears by holding a shaft/ring/planetary to give multiple gear reductions out of two or three planetary gear sets. the planetary gear set gives a massive space savings compared to normal opposing shaft gears. also because of the space savings you can stack multiple planetaries together and get multiple gear reductions by using them to overdrive/underdrive one another, something you cannot do with a manual.

But couldn't you use opposing shaft gears to link directly to a manual transmission, except allowing the computer to control gear when the shifter is pushed to a certain gate? It seems like that would be a decent compromise, since it gives you a true manual transmission (clutch pedal and all) while letting you drive it like an automatic when you want. Granted, you'd have to have some mechanism for the car to engage and disengage the clutch all by itself.

Toyota and Kawasaki did it, it sucks, fuck off

this is true, however there is very little benefit to what your asking for. people that drive manuals, want a manual because they row through the gears.

while it might be nice to just let a computer take over, the amount of error that is possible is staggering. you would need to find a way to monitor all gear speeds, input/output shaft rotation speed and shifter location. then somehow move the shifter quickly yet precisely into each gear at the exact correct time. if any of this was wrong, it would grind gears and destroy the trans very quickly. the clutch suprisingly wouldnt be that hard to manage, but that comes with the same drawback as a DCT with an automatic clutch, wearing out the throw out bearing and clutch due to granny driving.

its far easier to turn an automatic into a manual by using switches on an h-gate shifter and converting the torque converter over to a mechanical clutch setup.