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>/rlg/'s shared DCSS online account
User: rlgrobin
Password: ownfault (or "robin" on Xtahua)
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tfw can't ever see the winning strat in brogue
I think the thing I dislike the most about Brogue is that you'll be forced to make a decision where there is a correct and incorrect answer, only once you figure out that your answer was wrong, you won't have enough food to change your decision and you'll be locked in this really uncomfortable situation where you have to keep playing knowing that you picked the wrong thing two hours ago.
It doesn't help that the enchantment pseudo-refund opportunity is almost always going to be too far away from the decision you wish you made to use it properly.
i've come to the conclusion that no good roguelike exists and that we should let this thread die
Remember not to dive too fast, okay?
Conmutation's fine, it's for stuff you find, not for vault choices.
The most idiotic thing about Brogue is monsters respawning.
Game has limited resources, monsters don't drop shit, you can't grind for xp and has a tight hunger clock. Why the fuck do monsters respawn?
I won today.
Conjuration is tedious, but very powerful.
Recording: ufile.io
Ally empowering is a trash mechanic, and the game really goes on for too long, too. Should have like 33% less floors or so.
I think that's all the major apparent flaws with Brogue. Vaults and shit require a deeper look.
So I actually faulted this game when reorganizing my wand inventory by forgetting to take out a teleport and invis wand like usual. I walked down a staircase to GC6 and ended up right beside a freshly spawned Veteran Kamikaze Dwarf.
I actually died for three separate reasons:
>I forgot that there was a gunpowder bag on the staircase last time I left the floor and didn't ascend to take the blast on the floor above
>I didn't have a teleport wand out
>I did not Invis myself before I walked down the staircase
and the major fourth reason:
>I did not go to bed and sleep instead of continuing to play when I knew my concentration was waning
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND
>about three-five games later after a string of first floor splats, one of which to a zombie with a god damn thunder hammer blocking me in the entrance room
>I drink from a fountain because I'm CRAZY that way and actually I just was feeling ambivalent and wanted some rings
>Get permanent leprosy
>cure it for 20 gold (whew!)
>keep drinking
>get slow
>ok
>get permanent haste
>get permanent you will not get this if you scum fountains all fucking day haste
I better take a nap
I'm in the process of designing a cyberpunk roguelike. What kind of features would you guys like to see in it? So far I have in my scratch list:
- Top-down, tile & turn-based, i.e. classic roguelike style
- Procedural cities, streets, buildings, corporations
- Local economies, all city property must be owned by a corporation that exists in a trade or war relationship with other corporations
- Biology-based combat, you don't have HP, you die when blood pressure in your brain becomes abnormal
- No XP or leveling, character progression is done through cybernetics/augments
- Powerups are procedurally generated drugs (chemical effects on your character's body cause random things)
- In true dystopian fashion, the goal of the game is to get as much money as possible while screwing everyone else over
Settings I'm looking at:
- The street: Interaction with street gangs, skate punks, drug dealers, pimps & prostitutes, bioengineered mutants, and other seedy futuristic street denizens
- The corporations: You can visit to conduct a legitimate business deal, or just infiltrate to steal and hack things
- The "jungle": Densely populated urban areas where humans are heavily packed in, mostly controlled by violent gangs
- The catacombs: Creepy sewers and tunnels inhabited by mutants and monsters
- The matrix: a separate graph-based game mode primarily used for information gathering, and occasionally hacking and infecting other computers
Does all of that sound fun? Anything else cool that I should try to do with it? I figure realistically, I can get maybe a few of these done in a reasonable amount of time to launch an alpha version, and then after that I'll see what features people are most excited about. Pic related, a mockup I threw together. I don't know if I will end up using these tiles, but it's fun to give it at least some rudimentary art.
ally empowering seems fun until they get negated and all of them die or you misclick a staffbolt from fatigue and your naga waifu disembowels you and there's no way to change her mind
I'm going to play Brogue.
Congrats. You spent a lil on poison, I see. Revenants or...?
>ally empowering seems fun
Does it, though? From the get-go it sounds boring to me.
It's also infuriating just how good it is.
Negation isn't much of a problem in my experience but yeah, bolting them is horrible.
>What kind of features would you guys like to see in it?
Everything from Shadowrun non-magic stuff.
Yeah, I found a +4 staff of poison at some point and spent a couple of enchants on it for revenants. I found the firebolt much later.
Have fun, it's one of the best games the genre has to offer
>a character generation system similar to mutant chronicles
>actual factual jobs that you get assigned to do where you have to do something that isn't just "kill the things" like shadowrun
>instead of just drugs, have retroviruses and vaccines that interact chaotically with each other and may need to be purged or recombined
>unique NPC rivals with access to all the same capabilities and motivations that you have
>comrades who may betray you
What do lumenstones do?
E-peen
I feel you.
I've considered modding Brogue and making these changes to Commutation
>Vault can be found at any depth now
>Instead of two altars, vault now contains a non-scroll consumable (Orb? Stone? Chalice?)
>Consumable can be used at any time to commutate two items
>This consumable also drops very rarely through the game
This. Ally empowering could be fun, if you had better control over what allies learn, and over allies in general.
Also valid criticism.
More dosh for your adventurer upon retiring.
>Most variants have that interface now.
I tried unnethack and it still has that same old interface.
You lied.
Aweeg
>I think that's all the major apparent flaws with Brogue.
Stealth is really stupid in general.
Very related to that, the light mechanic is not great, either.
It better be.
OPTIONS=windowtype:curses
should i get caves of qud or unexplored?
That and searching. (Granted, searching in Brogue is less painful than in a majority of roguelikes, but it's still unpleasant.)
The dev should either get rid of light levels entirely, restrict them to '1 step away from light source OR unlit', or remove that beautiful color variation in dungeon floor tiles for the sake of light readability.
Also fuck the whole stealth range shit and obscure monster "scent". I don't want to play the whole game with that gross orange overlay, this stuff should work with LoS or something. Or at least make the stealth overlay prettier and permanently on.
And square, to calm my autism.
I have been considering using shadowrun as the basis for some things, at the very least I was gonna take Decker, Street Samurai and Face as clases. And yeah it won't have any magic stuff, it's too much to work into the design.
I definitely won't use the Shadowrun combat/mission system, I agree that it's kinda boring. The biochemical stuff is definitely what I want to flesh out more, in particular, there SHOULD absolutely be viruses and diseases and vaccines that the player has to discover. If I get time I want to make "research lab" another setting.
On the topic of AI, the way I'm writing it everything should be governed by an economic simulation. So if for whatever reason an allied NPC calculates that you aren't making it money anymore, it will turn on you. I won't have to program this in specifically either, it should just work. And yes, they should have all the same capabilities as the player.
>Mutant Chronicles
I have never played this, but it seems a lot more balanced than Shadowrun.
It's also never enabled by default, you have to enable it in your RC file.
I don't like this
wow
Searching is kind of a tough one to fix. I would be fine with no secret doors/rooms, Brogue isn't Doom
Traps, though. You could make it so you only get a roll to find them when you first spot the tile, but I think that makes it so you will maybe stumble on it and nerfs hard leading enemies into them
>remove that beautiful color variation in dungeon floor tiles for the sake of light readability.
You can disable color effects but it's broken on Windows, pender is a macfag.
And yeah, scent is bad. A stealth build gets no penalty for being spotted, they just stop moving for a turn and enemies go back to wandering. Meanwhile heavy armor dudes will never ever lose enemies.
Agreed on squarelos.
You start with darts, friend
How was I supposed to know this would happen?
ever watched any treasure hunt movie
Fuck this. I'm going back to Crawl.
>Crawl
Of course.
Brogue looks really cool. Looks a lot more immersive an engaging than others I've seen.
Or just use tiles > : ^ )
In all seriousness I wish there was a roguelike with decent tiles that didn't look like shit. Crawl does not look good either btw, it looks okay, but a lot of times text looks better.
Maybe the way to go is make walls and environment more realistic and enemies can still be text. Text looks better IMO but gradient lighting is hard with pure text.
>laughing gay clown
Christian XXX isn't gay he just does it for the money.
Tiles doesn't fix the lightning, past making torches actually visible. Well I think the NotEye build does but it's a pain to deal with.
They do look good, though, in my opinion.
>Crawl shitter can't even get to D:3
lol
That said the rat vult can actually be an unavoidable death sentence under the right conditions.
A lot of times tiles doesn't look as good as text because it's enough to no longer be abstract but not detailed enough to look good.
I like tiles too though, they're just lacking aesthetically usually.
pleas?
>There's pee on the floor
Is this fine?
It's alright. You can empower your ally for free, by the way, if you decide to take something other than empowerment.
>Searching
I've actually got this planned in case I ever make my own roguelike.
From my design doc:
>There is no "search" button. Because traps are never hidden. Instead, every dungeon level is peppered with "trap spots".
>Traps spots are squares which @ intuitively figures may hide a specific trap... or maybe nothing.
>They mostly generate in optional paths: in the middle of shortcut corridors, in front of treasure, etc.
>@ can spend multiple turns examining a trap spot. This reveals the trap if there's one; otherwise the spot disappears.
>Stepping on the trap spot, or baiting a monster into doing so, has the same result (and triggers the trap if it exists).
>Traps can be disarmed from an adjacent tile, or triggered from a distance, but trap spots cannot.
>Secret doors and other hidden passages follow the same formula.
>Therefore dealing with traps is a simple choice: do you want to sacrifice food clock time for whatever resource the trap protects, risk hit points instead, or ignore the prize altogether?
>Various skills, spells and gear exist to make this easier:
>Display the chance of a trap existing under a trap spot (10%? 80%?)
>Chance to instantly solve trap spots at first sight
>Take less turns to examine a trap spot
>And of course, curses (Paranoia status spawns extra, empty trap spots when you visit the next room; shakiness gives you a chance to trigger traps you examine, etc.)
Does this sound fun?
>How was I supposed to know this would happen?
Every Brogue challenge room, unfortunately. But the game doesn't have too many of these, so the trial and error aspect is limited.
Also, if you quit forever while on the first depth because you didn't expect something nasty... maybe roguelikes are not for you?
Already have a charm of teleport. According to the pastebin, any melee weapon that aren't runic/broadswords or something are shit. Would the chainmail, staff, or ring be the best? (I have a staff of obstruction.)
Sounds interesting, however the not triggering at a distance kind of breaks it. I understand why, but still.
How enchanted was your telecharm when you found it?
As for that vault, I would take chain I think? Blessed chance is decently high.
Watch that spear be quietus in the recording
Telecharm's at +2. Do strength requirements matter much? Not strong enough for chainmail.
They matter quite a bit for armor.
But next floor you will have your inventory full and you will need to quaff id, and you'll find a strenght pot in your inventory.
By the way, a highly enchanted telecharm can be very, very powerful, if you want to follow that route.
>triggering at a distance
Yeah, I just don't want people to bypass the search timer with a thrown rock. Maybe I'll restrict it to certain kinds of (heavier) objects. Or maybe I'll make rocks rarer to come by.
>you'll find a strength pot in your inventory
Are they guaranteed?
Yes, they spawn more frequently and are guaranteed to do so. Same with enchantment scrolls.
I have three enchantment scrolls. Should I put them towards the broadsword (found it but can't wield it) or do the charm? what's the benefit to enchanting charms, lower cooldown?
The sword would be the more comfortable choice for a beginner. But it's up to you. The horrible anxiety of deciding what to enchant is a big part of brogue
Enchanting charms reduces the cooldown and makes the effect more powerful. On telecharm, only the cooldown is affected, however.
Then I guess two scrolls for the charm since it seems more readily useful.
Oh fuck, the scrolls reduce the requirement for strength. Welp.
Read the dang descriptions.
If you still wanna go melee build a +4 charm isn't bad to have, anyways.
I used the scrolls on my invisibility charm instead of the tele too by accident
Wouldn't a troll berserker with claws slowly become.. Outdated? His weapons won't get any sharper, and you can't enchant them right?
Well
Enchanting also recharges the charm, which can be a good desperation use on the teleporter.
Bats are surprisingly tough. RIP user.
Unarmed skill is really really good.
I assumed that's why he only used only 2 of his 3 scrolls but seeing that he didn't know enchanting reduced str requirements now I'm not sure
What's your ethnicity? I don't want to get excited about a new roguelike if the 'developer' is just an ideaguy who isn't able to actually program it.
I.. Think this is good? I mean it's five plus slaying and some resistances.
The resists are irrelevant, the -dex is bad, but the slaying heavily outweighs it.
I should have tried out turn-count speedrunning earlier.
It actually makes playing crawl fun again, also thank you based trog for that beautiful exec axe.
Claws rip through everything at all stages of the game.
The only problem with Troll is the equipment restrictions but they're so strong and thicc that it doesn't even matter,
Damn, I'm getting some randarts that just enforce damage huh
what the hell
worst/bait armour
No resistances = shit.
Discord is the best spell (Y/N)
the same thing as the fourth+ runes in crawl
sounds fun except for the part where the food clock is apparently so tight and restrictive that spending a few turns examining a trap is a significant cost
rate my lair:1 loot
>Insatiable Hunger
>Regen+
ha
Ant/10
>What's your ethnicity?
Gnomish manlet
>I don't want to get excited about a new roguelike if the 'developer' is just an ideaguy who isn't able to actually program it.
My art is shit cause I spend all day programming.
I just found out you can edit your player character by pressing numpad - in crawl
Actually it's really fucking good.
personally I prefer dat cord
g - the scarf "Yraqoal" {MR+ Dex-2 Slay+5}
or
u - a +2 cloak of invisibility
i feel that as a formicid the invisiblity will help alot because of limited escape options
MR+ and Slay+5 will help alot more than invis, especially since you need some evo to even use it decently.
Manual of armor, 2 scrolls of aquirement or a ring with *slow rF+++ rC+++ and -2 dex
Examining a trap wouldn't take too much time.
Examining all traps on the level definitely should.
things that need to change in the /rlg/ fork of brogue
>let me move diagonal near walls
>no more food
>no more respawning monsters
>more intuitive, less ugly stealth implementation
>remove allies
>"classes" that influence what drops like in that one guy's brogue fork
>option to make the game not look like a bunch of color barf
>>no more food
>>no more respawning monsters
>Killing the clock
Yeah, no. It's there so you can't wait until monsters walk into your killing corridor one by one until they're all gone and you can loot the whole level.
Otherwise I agree.
The scarf
Background and race?
what if we remove the clock but also make it so ou can't ascend unless you have the amulet
I like how Unbrogue made 'smart' monsters like goblins too smart to go into the corridor. They lead you into their room instead.
>>let me move diagonal near walls
CRAWLSHITTERS LEAVE
um u can do it in rogue and sil and shit too sweetie
It wouldn't really fix the problem. Leading monsters upstairs is a really minor strategy. The problem is, killspots are relatively easy to find, and that's okay. They shouldn't be exploitable with every monster on the level though.
That's a good idea but I can't see it applied to every monster...
Nothing wrong about diagonal wall movement. Though it would probably require a level generator rework. Stuff might get broken.
invisibility is not an escape option
if you're in melee range of monsters already it accomplishes just about fuckall
you use it at the BEGINNING of a fight against non-sinv monsters
since you're a formicid and you can't haste or cblink anyways, invis is the only source of contam you're ever gonna use so you can just freely use it in every fight without worrying about "oh if i have to haste later i might get some mutations"
>diagonal near walls
would be a huge nerf to the player desu
there are almost no corridors in brogue; your only way to fight conjurers or packs of nasties 1-on-1 is to stand in a doorway
if you allow diagonal movement/attack then you are suddenly only able to fight 1v3 instead of 1v1
even axes would be nerfed, since instead of attacking 3 monsters while only 1 hits you back you'd be taking damage from all of them
>have conj staff
>find para trap
>press z for 99999 turns until every enemy on the level wanders into the room so you can paralyse it and gangbang it with paralysis-immune swords
etc
They don't go in it in Brogue either. The leading is new tho
>>let me move diagonal near walls
Don't care enough to fix the level generator
>>no more food
I think it's an okay mechanic. Makes the player move, and stick to their choices.
>>no more respawning monsters
Agree.
>>more intuitive, less ugly stealth implementation
Let's hear it
>>remove allies
And rebalance the game how? Brogue isn't NetHack, you don't have as much choices in general. Removing a whole strategy will have an impact in the game. The removal of ally XPXP had already made a lot of seeds straight up unwinnable in the past.
Plus you need to remove quite a few items too. Domination, empowerment, staff of healing, staff of proteciton.
>>"classes" that influence what drops like in that one guy's brogue fork
Fuck that. Your class is Rogue, you kill and steal shit being the most dishonest cunt you can be.
>>option to make the game not look like a bunch of color barf
Disable color effects already exists. It's just broken on Windows
Staves and charms, user. The drawback is that they recharge over time and time is limited. You could go into each level with full charges, and once you cleared some rooms you can rest till they are full again.
Don't forget the Combat Zones: areas that are just abandoned cityscapes full of maniacs and gang wars. I already hate the art style if that's what you're going for. It's too cutesy for a Cyberpunk setting. Use ASCII or gritty art.
PLUS
THIRTEEN
HASTE
CHARM
NIGGA
RING OF REAPING
RING OF TRANSFERENCE
AND A MOTHERFUCKING BROADSWORD