also, perhaps in a year or so the sticky'd cheap car buying chart should be updated with an EV or two. Seems like everyone I know with an EV is gonna be upgrading pretty soon to a new one. That's a lotta EVs hitting the used market, and even now you can get a 2012 leaf for 8k or so.
Ayden Ramirez
I really like the idea of the chevy volt but I hate the fucking chevy execution.
Why the hell hasn't any other company made a plug-in with decent electric range? The closest thing is the Prius Prime, which only has 25 miles all electric. I guess there's also the Pacifica hybrid with 33 miles all electric, but it's a Minivan and it loses some of the regular Pacifica's versatility.
Is it really that hard to stick a slightly larger battery pack? Even most luxury plug in hybrids only have 15-20 miles all electric. That's barely enough to get you anywhere in the US unless you really do live right next to work.
Joseph Bell
We should probably make one of the first things in the pastebin "don't get a 2012 leaf for 8k or so."
Parker Rivera
You want them to stick an engine, transmission, electric motor and a battery pack into a compact car and still bitch about the all electric range?
Connor Hill
which years are the good ones again? iirc the first US production ones are crap.
this guy is right. Look at the i3; the range extender is crap. IMO PHEVs are gonna die off in a couple years; the $/kWh and kWh/kg is juuuuust about to hit the real 'tipping' point with non-Tesla car companies.
All I want is a 250mi EV wagon. That would be nice
David Martin
>compact car It doesn't have to be a compact car. It could be literally car style. Yes, you have to sacrifice space if you're going to include both components, but if people can get by with a Toyota Corolla there's no reason you shouldn't be able to put a plug-in drivetrain on something Camry or Avalon sized and deal with the same amount of space.
I like the concept of a plug in hybrid, but the ones that are out now are just too short electric ranged (w/exception of the Volt) to make any sense unless you live in a city. And if you live in a city, why not just get an electric car and rent a gas car for trips?
Jaxson Bell
the thing is, the point of a PHEV is to have that short EV range. 90% of trips are under 50 miles; why pay for that extra battery if you aren't going to use it? Then, if you usually go further than 50 miles, why get a PHEV and not a full EV with a ~250 mile range?
Lucas Garcia
>it loses some of the regular Pacifica's versatility.
It does get more comfortable second row seats, though.
Alexander Foster
That's my point. the Volt (2nd gen, at least) can do those 50 miles. The others in the segment can't.
The PHEV is nice for people living outside urban corridors since it lets you have an EV for everyday work with a single charging point (your house) and then it turns into a gasoline car if you need to make longer trips. Right now that's basically impossible for a full EV because charging infrastructure sucks unless you're Tesla, in which case it sucks slightly less.
all this is a moot point if your PHEV can't squeak out that 50 mile range without burning gas, since you just get a car that uses less gas than normal. If you're gonna do that, seems better just to get a crappy 4-cylinder and save the upfront cost of the expensive drivetrain.
Dominic Russell
Ah yeah I see your point. You know, a minivan with 80mi battery range would sell pretty well I would think. Plenty of room for the ICE stuff too
Liam Evans
But the Chevy Volt has an electric range of 50 miles, some owners have claimed getting 70 miles in favorable conditions. And what more do you really need on a daily basis? The petrol generator should theoretically only come to life on long trips. To me the Volt is very close to what I'd be looking for in a hybrid.
Angel Scott
I'm kind of disappointed that the Pacifica Hybrid only goes 33 miles on a charge and kicks on the engine upon heavy acceleration. I was hoping for more of an EREV. I would love a big, comfy EV that could seat a lot of people in total comfort. The Pacifica is almost ideal.
Elijah Cook
except, you know, being a Chrysler and all
Gavin Powell
My problem with the chevy volt isn't with the range- that's the thing it does right. My problem with the volt is that in every other way it's like a Chevy cruze- cheap interior and unimpressive driving dynamics because they spent every penny on the drivetrain.
If a player like Mazda or Honda can come along and do a much better interior than the Cruze at a similar price point with the Mazda 3 or Civic, I fail to see why they couldn't build a 50-60 mile PHEV with a better interior than the volt at the ~40k price point. The only thing stopping them seems to be lack of interest.
Honda has the Clarity PHEV coming out soon which is supposed to do 42 miles all electric, so I'm excited to see the reviews on that.
Jack Mitchell
Have you driven the new Volt? All the reviews I've seen say it's better than the first gen Volt, and the first gen is decent, imo.
Thomas Peterson
it's difficult to do electric powertrains and integration all of a sudden if you don't have previous experience with it. It isn't as easy as putting out 300 job postings for EV techs and engineers and telling them to get busy.
Although, Chevy offloaded ALL of the Bolt's powertrain to a 3rd party, which seemed to work well for them. Other companies will probably do that in the short-term as well, while they build up their internal EV institutional knowledge
Robert Hall
Not yet, still a while to go before I need to replace my car. I drove the first gen volt as a loaner a while back and was unimpressed. I figured the 2nd gen would be fairly similar in character, but i guess it's possible chevy got their act together.
Benjamin Rogers
I like Chryslers.
Dylan Cruz
The thing I dislike the most about the way the first gen Volt drives is that it's too front heavy. The weight distribution is 61/39, I think.
Luke Martinez
I've been working on my own conversion. I have a fiero, and am cheaping out of motors and batteries because poorfag. I'm stubborn though and cannot compromise, and must have my car my way.
>ywn plug one of these into a model s and tow it around
Jonathan Jones
Or you could just buy a Volt and have a Model 3 sized vehicle with better build quality, enough electric range for daily driving and a range extender already installed.
Jack James
Scooters are easier to mount and have better stock weather protection.
Colton Foster
Ford C max. Roomier than the Volt and more comfortable too. 35 mile range
Hudson Barnes
The nice thing about ebikes though is that they’re legally bikes, so you can take them other places regular scooters can’t.
Jayden Powell
Not where I live. 25 kph ebikes are considered assisted bicycles, but 45 kph ebikes are considered scooter/moped class motorcycles and require a license (included in car license) and insurance (~80 bucks /a) and must be ridden in traffic.
Isaac Russell
That’s sorta like the US right now. There’s a 20mph limit I think with ebikes, but it’s not enforced at all. As long as it had working pedals you’re good
Can I just like plug my car into my house outlet and charge it? How much electricity does it consume? Does it end up being cheaper than buying gas?
Wyatt James
yes, you can plug it into just a regular 120v wall outlet. This'll take days to charge your car, though. The better way is to buy a "level 2" charger for your garage, which then goes into a 240v (NEMA 14-50) socket. This is a great article about L2 charges with recommendations: thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-ev-charging-stations/
As for consumption, just as much as you put into the car. If you have a 40kwh leaf, 0-100% will be ~40 kwh. You can then find the comparative cost with some simple math, using your current car's mpg, your hypothetical EV's wh/mi, and the cost to fill up the EV. It's always cheaper, for the most part. Can you pay for electricity based on demand? Then it's super cheap, since you charge at night when electricity is the cheapest.
Jordan Edwards
For instance: @ 12¢/kwh, a 150mi 40kwh leaf gives you ~31.25 miles/dollar. A 30mpg car @ $2.5/gal gives you 12 miles/dollar.
Gavin Taylor
...
Chase Howard
>I'm a rich hipster libshit faggot who steals from the poor through government incentives, which are the only way electrics can make any sense to buy >but it's okay because I'm saving the world from doomsday, or at least that's what Al Gore told me You all deserve a fate worse than death.
Nolan Cook
wew lad
Robert James
The Model 3 hasn't been out long enough for a full assessment of the build quality.
>Can I just like plug my car into my house outlet and charge it?
Yes. The rate for home charging is about 4 miles per hour. If you don't drive more than 40-50 miles per day, you could fully recharge your car's battery overnight without a Level 2 unit.
>How much electricity does it consume?
"If electricity is 12 cents per kWh — the national average — it would cost $3.48 to go 100 miles. Another way to calculate cost is to use the number of kilowatt-hours it takes to recharge the EV's battery. If an EV requires 20 kWh to fully recharge and the rate is 12 cents per kWh, that's $2.40 to fill up the car."
"As much as $5.3 trillion is spent annually worldwide to subsidize fossil fuels, according to a new report from the International Monetary Fund. Renewable energy subsidies, in comparison, total only $120 billion each year."
Kek, what a pathetic source. Reading the report it was pretty easy to find that the 5.3$ trillion number is for total energy subsidies, not just fossil fuels. I also couldn't find anything related to renewable energy or that 120$ billion number. Good try though.
Aiden Russell
>For instance: @ 12¢/kwh, a 150mi 40kwh leaf gives you ~31.25 miles/dollar. A 30mpg car @ $2.5/gal gives you 12 miles/dollar.
Battery charging/discharging efficiency is far from 100%, for LiIon it's about 85%. Nissan leaf charger has efficiency of about 90%. Thus 30 miles/$ turn into 23.
If you enable AC or heater it would be worse.
[spoiler]typical E-car fags ignorance[/spoiler]
Jackson Gomez
>Implying other car manufactures/oil companies aren't swimming in subsidies David Koch pls go
Jose Davis
I don't agree with any subsidies, but at least ones given to car and oil companies trickle down and benefit poor people in some small ways. Giving free money to you faggots doesn't give them a cent. >inb4 autistic screeching about how you're helping make electric cars practical for everyone Wow, what heroes.
Dominic Morgan
Koch, you have to go back to work instead of shitposting on Veeky Forums
Wyatt Howard
Not an argument.
Jace Williams
Ebin
Justin Nelson
Lithium, of course. Even buying the tesla battery modules would be worth the weight. I'm looking at designing my own BMS, though I expect that to take a while.
Leo Turner
remember, it's the amps that kill you. Best of luck.
What's your goal for range/performance? You can get Volt battery units for not that much money. Depending on your AUW you could probably squeeze over 100 miles out of it.
Benjamin Miller
>tfw the entire electric car meme will go belly up if they stop getting government gibs Kys battery fags
Justin Bell
Stop samefagging, Koch, you have a bunch of subsidies as well
Jace Clark
the new leaf has already sold 19000 units. EVs aren't going anywhere
Liam Brooks
>be tesla owner >pray to daddy musk every night for good mileage and bigger console ipads >spend 5k to put a high powered charger in my shitty apartment so I can go work at my IT job without running out of juice >wife gets back from tyrones house >honey let's go on a roadtrip! >fuck.png >load up my wife and tyrones things >attach my 800lb tesla range extender (patent pending) >plan out my route ahead of time, have to plan off days so my meme car will charge up fully >set off >pass through a stretch of open plains >featherthatthrottle.went >run out of juice >my tesla range extender (patent pending) doesn't work because it was assembled by 17yr old illegal immigrants in the desert >no cell service >Tyrone brought a cb radio to talk to his home slices across the border, figured he'd pick up something called a dime bag from them. >tyrones friends get here and shoot me, steal my wallet >thank elon musk for my 30 inch ipad >with my last breathe >s-stay m-m-mad piston cu- >die
Camden Price
2/10 for effort
Caleb Walker
I may be a mobilefag, but at least that lets me confirm I'm not a samefag.
Xavier Stewart
imagine the anger when the model 3 starts being reviewed by big car sites and they like it, lmao
Carson Peterson
I get the criticisms for all the reliance on computers but aren't combustion engines more complicated than electric motors?
Brandon Edwards
yeah. Every single report I have seen shows that EVs require substantially less maintenance that ICE cars. Repair shops are going to die, and die hard.
Jayden Morgan
...
Justin Cruz
Battery cucks btfo again
Hudson Murphy
No they aren't because there's a very hard limit on how many electric appliances we can have on the road in America. I think it was cited at like 3% of total cars could be EV before we get rolling blackouts lmao. Ev 's might stick around in europoor land but in America when tesla flops in 2 or 3 years the electric car will be dead, again. Meanwhile I'll enjoy my car that I can fill up with gas when it gets low on range, while you sit at a charger for 45 fucking minutes kek
Easton King
>3% of total cars could be EV before we get rolling blackouts TIL we can't build more power plants to supply demand
Liam Fisher
That's just bullshit and you know it.
-most EVs charge at night -the grid would see a 10-20% rise in demand at MOST.
Stop believing fake news, ffs. I bet your believe those articles that say we need 6 billion new peak load power stations if 3% of the car fleet are EVs or some nonsense like that.
Not to mention, EVs can help balance the grid
Dominic Smith
>we'll just build everyone their own powerplant! That'll fix it! >pls Donald trump we need more energy subsidies so we can overhaul the entire fucking power grid to give our oversized mobility scooters electricity I'm starting to understand why everyone hates EV people they're so much worse than hybrid ppl
you're really special aren't you? EVs would help the grid, both through stabilizing load and reducing peak demand spikes. If EVERYONE drove an EV in the US, demand would go up 25%. That's it. Not to mention rooftop solar and its effects.
Brody Ramirez
furthermore, demand ≠ peak demand. The whole demand situation would level out, which means less peak load stations are needed.
Eli Campbell
Veeky Forums will probably hate this, but both those are going to be extremely low. I drive 20 miles to work, and 20 miles home, and my errands are mostly within 5 miles.
I'll be paying for a charger at work. I was looking at two Model S battery packs for about 10 kw. That would give me a range of about 40 miles which might be important if I end up driving to work through heavy snow. That range is calculated at 250 watt-hours/mile, what the Tesla gets, mine will be much lower.
As for performance... that's even worse. The biggest liquid cooled motor I could find, within my pricerange, was from a chinese company "Golden Motors". After that, they start trying to sell you the controller with it. So, that's about 20 kw, 27 hp, continuous. Keep in mind, the original fiero only had a 120 hp motor. This will be a few hundred pounds lighter without the big engine, and other items, like the air conditioner, removed to lighten it.
You weren't kidding about those prices. I'm glad I looked more closely at them, I assumed only the tesla batteries were liquid cooled.
Austin Thomas
Fewer.
Thomas Murphy
>furthermore, demand ≠ peak demand. The whole demand situation would level out, which means less peak load stations are needed.
I see massive increase in peak demand as people going back to home would plug their EV's to charge.
Jeremiah Gonzalez
yes, at night, and it's spread over 8 hours.
Bentley Flores
Are you suggesting to ban EV charging in evening and allow charging only at night?
Gavin Kelly
lolwhat? I'm saying that most people charge their EV at night. The draw due to charging is relatively low, since it's spread over the course of 8 hours or so. This results in a manageable increase in power demand, since nighttime is opposite peak power, for the most part. Thus the small total increase in power needed for a EV only car fleet
Thomas Scott
>I'm saying that most people charge their EV at night.
So I drive home, park my car, plug it, and then I schedule charge to start at 11 PM. Like that?
>The draw due to charging is relatively low, since it's spread over the course of 8 hours or so.
BS as there is no data to backup your 'relatively low' shit.
You need to draw 20-40 kW/hr, that's 2.5 ... 5 kW per hour for 8 hr interval. that's A LOT!
>This results in a manageable increase in power demand, since nighttime is opposite peak power, for the most part. Thus the small total increase in power needed for a EV only car fleet
BS
Nathan Sullivan
>situation would level out
To level out the situation one must start chaging EV's in 10 AM - 4 PM range and not overnight.
Oliver Sanchez
Yep, nobody uses electricity during the day, that's the best time to charge. That chart you are looking at is obviously for residential only. Use your brain for 2 seconds before posting next time.
Chase Perry
...
Christopher Gutierrez
Subsidies for EVs will help reduce our dependency on oil.
Parker Ramirez
I don't understand why some people have such a huge hatred for Tesla. I love Tesla.
Ethan Howard
I really wanna believe, but so far the only mildly interesting hybrid was the i8 and it flopped Electric is dumb and unsustainable, it's also not as green as you'd like to believe, I'm mainly interested for the gas savings, death of the diesel and cleaner air in the city
Robert Perry
Studies show electric cars are cleaner than gas cars.
Isaiah Wood
LA gets real ugly because of all the particulate and unburt hydrocarbons gas cars spew out. It's why they have the strictest emissions.
Electrical cars are great because, by transferring the powerplant from the car to grid, you enable technologies like wind and solar. It's the first step in actually fighting global warming. You don't start phasing out coal plants when you have a bunch of polluting cars on the road.
Imagine working on green tech knowing your advances help every corner of society instead of big power companies. Imagine working with a bunch of people living off the grid trying to figure how to import gas vs building a big solar farm.
Xavier Campbell
are you a vegan?
John Rodriguez
...
Luis Bell
I'm afraid of all the gas stations closing down and being unable to tinker with old American shitboats anymore. I'm also tired of Musk's arrogance
Leo Lee
That came out a lot more deluded green party than I intended...
I just really like solar power.
William Evans
Government meddling in markets hurts everyone in the long run.
Hudson Hernandez
same here. In probably three years the watt/m^2 and $/m^2 of panels will be low enough that I can justify buying a roof's worth. Pair that with a house battery and an EV, and I'd be a happy man.
