Efis vs carburetors

The fuck? A summit branded 600 is like $290, a 750 is a whopping $310.

yeah the space in the engine bay is insane now. When I took that pic I was about halfway done, it's even roomier now that I got rid of most of the wiring and anything remaining from the fuckhuge intake mani and routing lines. If thread's still up in the morning I'll take a new pic. And no, it's not RHD

Not even close. I picked up both carbs for $350, shipping and approximate jetting included. Carb manifold was only another $200. Like said, once you factor in injectors, aftermarket ECU, etc. for EFI builds the price gets crazy in comparison. Tack on the fact that carbs are very simple to keep running and maintained and the price goes down even less.

is that bad for the engine or just the muffler? I got a 4 barrel on my 383 el camino but it's straight piped and dumps at a 45 degree angle right below the front axle, kinda want to try this if I won't fuck up my internals

Controlled vacuum leaks suck a dick. It's fun changing jets for the winter and then the summer. Have to change jets again if you are traveling for major elevation changes. The reason cars will go 200k+ miles bow is because of efi. Carburetors are generally set to run really rich to cover elevation, temperature, and barometric pressure changes. This means the cylinder walls get washed out with raw gas.

>Controlled vacuum leaks suck a dick.
You suck dick.

>It's fun changing jets for the winter and then the summer.
Nope, literally never had to change my jets.
>Have to change jets again if you are traveling for major elevation changes.
Nope, I've driven my carby jeep from 4kfeet to 10k feet and it ran fine.
>The reason cars will go 200k+ miles bow is because of efi.
I'm on stockie motor with 210k mate.
>Carburetors are generally set to run really rich to cover elevation, temperature, and barometric pressure changes. This means the cylinder walls get washed out with raw gas.
No, I put a wideband in mine, I run just a slight bit richer than 14.7:1
It won't pass emissions if it doesn't mate. She barely leans as I climb 5k feet.

>your argument is invalid because its generalizations don't apply to literally every single carb ever made

Carbies are fuckkin stronk mate.
You're gay as fuck.
There's nothing like heel toeing in a carbed car.
You don't know what throttle response is until you drive a carb.

You must have a narrow band. That kind of elevation would make the afr change. This velocity stack required a complete retune of my edlebrock Quadrajet. It flows 850cfm. A 30 degree temperature change will make my afr go from 14.0 to 15.0. I have an aem wideband.

>Carburetors are generally set to run really rich to cover elevation, temperature, and barometric pressure changes. This means the cylinder walls get washed out with raw gas.

>No, I put a wideband in mine, I run just a slight bit richer than 14.7:1

What that user said- people generally don't realize how easy it is to tune carburetors nowadays now that wideband AFRs are cheap. It's literally as simple as connecting it to your exhaust, looking at the number it spits out, then taking 30 seconds to change the jets until you're where you want it to be.

Well yeah it's a fucking AMC 4.2
Revving it over 3k is useless.

Once you get into big cams around 290 duration and large intake manifolds fuel injection is much better. Cam reversion make it hard to get it running well. A stock v8 with a mild cam and stock intake manifold with a 650cfm carb would be easy. My 455 has to idle at 1000
Rpms due to the size of the cam.

>having a carburated diesel
Uhh no thanks

Is 1000 rpm really that bad of an idle though? I run my carbs at 1000 rpm and haven't really felt a need to go any lower.

If your car is the chad, then you are his bitch. Simple as that.

I run EFI because my car is my bitch and it does exactly what I tell it to at all times.

>extremely temperamental
>only starts when he feels like it
>unreliable

Those are high estrogen virgin and not chad characteristics.

Depends on the displacement/cylinder count really.

Lots of small 4cyls are happy idling at 1000.
But an 8 or 6 usually would rather have 750.

that's enough number one

...

>Carbureted steam engine

Get the fuck out of the way Tesla, we're making history here.

I have a cis ke car. Its like a hybrid of both.

It's called mechanical fuel inject you faggot.

What I never understood about CIS is, why does it have as many injectors as it does cylinders? Why not just have as many injectors as it does throttle bodies?
With multiple injectors you have to balance them before adjusting the system pressure.
It's kinda a waste of money imo.

...

The newer versions do.

Mechanical fuel injection is awesome though

re posted this to memebook

inb4 it came from there

its Bosch kraut-magic. Dont question it.

rest assured it's oc. take it and enjoy it as a rare never before seen by facebook normies

This is true.
Looks exactly like my workshop manual and everything.

How can a carburated diesel even exists?

what's all this then?

Carbueration makes more sense on a diesel than a benzine powered motor.

Was thinking of swapping my car to carbs at some point. Especially if I keep the stock motor

You sound way too fucking dumb to do it.

Because I like starting my car when it's below freezing out and also enjoy strong part throttle response. If the government can hack my eeciv Motorola 68000 based pcm then they earned it.

:(

>Because I like starting my car when it's below freezing out and also enjoy strong part throttle response. If the government can hack my eeciv Motorola 68000 based pcm then they earned it.

Clearly you've never owned a carbed car.
What do you think chokes are?
I've never been in a situation where it was too cold to start my gasoline car. It's probably been -12f here at the coldest when I started it.
>strong part throttle response
what the fuck are you even talking about?
Carbs have immediate, consistent, and perfect throttle response. They're literally the end goal of all FI systems.
Every single last bit of air carries with it the exact fuel it needs from the start.
And EFI has to either guess or measure it then attempt to meter it, which it cannot do reliably so it must make constant adjustments.

Likely an AC line. CarbCucks enjoy being hot.

Veeky Forums makes dankes chad mayays

I have a few carbureted motorcycles and no, they don't respond well to opening the throttle body wide open in a split second. Instead they almost die because the carburetor wasn't prepared for a fuck ton of air and the gas can't come in fast enough.

Sounds like you have no experience with real carbs.
Your chinese needle carbs are a shit design
Try a real proper venturi carb.
You can got nothing to wot in a split second and they react just fine.

I think the problem most people have with carbs is their only experience with them is on small engines with $30 carbs, and those small engines typically sit for months, and sometimes years on end without running.

over-complicated design ? that's more a carburetor thing
it would just fit chad way more

>I know nothing about carburetors: the post

For traveling I still prefer a carburetor: more likely to break, but also much easier to fix.

>implying I don't have carbs

Anyways, if you don't have individual throttle bodies or a carburetor barrel per cylinder, you deserve no part in the FI vs. carbs debate.

If your carbs die when you open the throttle quickly, they're not adjusted properly.

t. doesn't know how to tune a carb the right way

do it, simplifies the engine bay and lets you get rid of the wiring harness / ecu. All you need after that is ignition wiring, and it's simple to retune the carbs if you do any further upgrading to the motor

I have ITB'S on my mechanically injected 4 cyl
and I have a two barrel on my 6 cylinder.

Carbs are dank.
FI, Mechanical or Eletronic is dank.
Cars are dank.

Carburetor Pros:
>easy to tune
>cheap

Carburetor Cons:
>prone to flooding
>prone to vapor locking
>has absolutely no way to adjust its AFRs on the fly, common carbs can't deal with elevation changes/temperature changes
>no two-step, no misiringu shystimu turbo spooler
>many carbs not designed to handle positive intake manifold pressures
>vacuum lines a shit
>clusterfuck of parts
>throws a shitfit if ethanol content exceeds 10%
>some carbs need special additives on every fill up to keep fuel from boiling in the carb
>no way to tell what your AFRs are unless you have a third party wideband sensor
>user completely amiss that something could be wrong until it's too late
>inferior fuel atomization means fuel will bead on polished intake manifolds/heads
>so completely cucked out of existence that you have to buy some rusted shitheap or an aftermarket carb to have even one
>literally thrown into the cuckshed by EFI, only really found on lawnmowers, weedeaters, some old boomer mobile parked in the shed 20 years ago, etc.

EFI Pros:
>can adjust AFRs based on barometric pressure, air temperature, O2 readings from exhaust, manifold pressure/flow, throttle position, current gear, etc
>will alert the driver if anything goes wrong, most importantly lean/rich conditions
>stock EFI systems on most cars can accept boost up to a certain PSI with nothing more than a tune and maybe a stronger fuel pump
>two-step, misfirungu shistumu, etc available on aftermarket ECUs
>can advance or retard ignition timing on the fly
>can advance or retard valve timing/valve lift on the fly if the hardware exists
>aftermarket ECUs can keep you from doing something autistic, such as revving to 12k rpm or running with an AFR of 21:1, taking the risk out of tuning
>aftermarket ECUs and even some stock ECUs can have multiple selectable tunes geared towards performance, economy, etc right on your dash
>many ECUs allow the use of many different types of fuel, such as E85 and can automatically adjust even while the engine is running
>used on practically all modern cars
>preferred in motor sports for robustness and features

EFI Cons:
>dumb hicks and boomers don't know how to use a computer and the relevant software to tune their ECU
>chance some $20-30 sensor might fail
>can be expensive

You had me at worst!
SOLD!

they're still very common on bikes
also they can't sit for long

That inline six would be inline sex with three double Webers.

You can literally turn a screw to adjust AFR. Should be plenty if you have a wideband lambda gauge.
Two-step is easily possible on carbs, just cut ignition.
Carbs are pretty good at cooling down a Roots supercharger though, they have their niche in boosted applications.
Some specific ethanol carbs can do E100. The problem is flexfuel.
Lambda sensors are cheap.
A well-adjusted carb actually has superior fuel atomisation.

Not saying EFI isn't objectively superior in 95% of all cases, and that carbs aren't obscolescent, but they still have their place in some automotive applications.

>has absolutely no way to adjust its AFRs on the fly, common carbs can't deal with elevation changes/temperature changes
Heard of a computerized carb?
They use an o2 sensor to adjust mixture constantly with a solenoid on the cabr, just like your EFI.
They also use solenoids to control idle speeds to deal with loads, and electric chokes to deal with temperature changes.
Just because you don't know about this stuff doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>You can literally turn a screw to adjust AFR. Should be plenty if you have a wideband lambda gauge.
Well the carb can't do that itself, which was the point I was making. EFI can adjust it's own AFR with no user input.
>Two-step is easily possible on carbs, just cut ignition.
You mean like with a computer?
>Some specific ethanol carbs can do E100. The problem is flexfuel.
While it is possible to tune a carb to dump more fuel into the combustion chamber when running E85/E100, you have to retune your carb to run on regular gasoline if you switch back and vice versa, which isn't very convenient.
>A well-adjusted carb actually has superior fuel atomisation.
Which takes many, many hours to get it perfected. Meanwhile you just need to supply your injectors with the correct PSI and they will do the rest.

>common carb
>computerized

I'm well aware of computerized carbs, they're not very common.

>You mean like with a computer?
Well you can use a dual two step centrifugal distributor to achieve the same thing with a simple relay.
I wouldn't call that a computer.

>While it is possible to tune a carb to dump more fuel into the combustion chamber when running E85/E100, you have to retune your carb to run on regular gasoline if you switch back and vice versa, which isn't very convenient.
The same is said about 99% of EFI gasoline cars.
Computerized carbs could easily be made to work with flex fuels.

>Which takes many, many hours to get it perfected. Meanwhile you just need to supply your injectors with the correct PSI and they will do the rest.
So you concede. Great.

>your car has a computer therefore it has efi
lol nice

Carbs in the late 80's and early 90's were making leaps and bounds forewards in technology.
If there were still factory direct cars in a large scale being sold they'd all be computerized.

An ignition control module like MSD offers can easily do two step and various other fancy things with your ignition. Even if you think carbs are better than EFI, everybody should really admit that computerised ignition is better than most manual stuff. Unless of course you're cramming gallons of high explosive into a Top Fuel motor, in which case you want mechanical reliability, and redudancy.

> you have to retune your carb to run on regular gasoline if you switch back and vice versa
This is the very definition of flexfuel.

>Which takes many, many hours to get it perfected.
Not really if you know the correct people and have the right tools to measure it. The superior atomisation actually showns when you use a positive displacement supercharger without an intercooler: carbs will actually cool it better because of the better fuel atomisation.
The only place where this does not work is in very poorly designed log manifolds, where the fuel is hitting walls and therefore goes out of suspension, that's a situation where port EFI would obviously be superior.

Sure, EFI is easier, but there are still niche uses for carbs.

You know that flex fuel sensors exist right?

And computerized carbs suck dick. There's a reason why OEMs used EFI instead.

There is no circumstance where carbs are objectively better. The only reason to use one is if you can't tune EFI. It's inherently an open loop system and is less robust.

>You know that flex fuel sensors exist right?
Doesn't change the fact that flex fuel vehicles are rare as fuck and only getting rarer.

>There is no circumstance where carbs are objectively better.
Throttle response and fuel atomisation. Also, period-correct looks and sound, but those might be subjective.

>There is no circumstance where carbs are objectively better.

What about engine swaps on a budget into an older chassis that was never offered with that engine? Swapping becomes as simple as just getting the right engine mounts / transmission adapter fabbed, you don't have to fuck around with putting in a wiring harness and can just slap some carbs and a simple ignition on and go.

With modern EFI engines and swap kits, this argument is becoming decreasingly valid. There are still some performance advantages to carbs though, which will stay valid for a long time.

1994 Isuzu pickup was the last carb'd car to be sold in the states.

There have been carb'd cars sold well into the 00's in many parts of the world otherwise.

The problem with the younger carb'd cars is that they have emissions regulated carbs and had, what felt like, miles of vacuum lines and hundreds of vacuum switches and junctions and if anything ever developed a pinhole leak you got 10mpg out of a 2.3l i4 as it went into limphome mode.

>He has to pull over and manually adjust the air fuel ratio

Wewlad that's a guaranteed way to get Stacy bored as fuck

Might as well give her to a passer by whilst you're playing with your screwdriver you virgin

Why would I open my trunk for some passer by?

>Controlled vacuum leaks
Explain please.
t. haven't driven a carb in a long time, only remember the secondaries opening.

>It's fun changing jets for the winter and then the summer
Never did this either, Chicago temps vary so much.
NOT calling bullshit,just saying.

Dude,what year fiero is that?

... do go on

This I wanna hear

I think he's calling the intake a controlled vacuum leak.

I was glad I was headed to a swap meet in southern California when I lost 2 injectors in Nevada. Unbolted entire EFI manifold, adjusted my FPR, bolted on a performer RPM and an older 850. No issues the rest of the trip. Again, I like EFI for the cunt hair like tuning, but for general perts availability, ease of use, and straight out reliability, Ill keep carbs on my older stuff.

What the fuck did you do to break 2 injectors?
The 20 year old injectors on my mildly boosted Toyota still work flawlessly.

he's a fucking retard. why tf would you ever use a carburetor

I'm a big carb man but I'm starting to have doubts after leaving my cars sitting for a while and now the Dellortos need a good cleanout and probably some new gaskests and a pump diaphragm. Starting to wonder if it's worth it compared to the turnkey EFI.....

If your carb doesn't have an easy to access bowl drain plug you're going to have trouble after leaving it sitting.

My DHLA nigger.
What did you do with the dizzy?

How is the intake air filtered?

As long as it's not electro-mechanical like the Bosch KE-Jetronic. Fuck that shit. More complicated than EFI and way shittier.

I guess he ran a too high duty cycle on them.

>Bosch KE-Jetronic
This is why I won't drive a 560 SEL.

Because I have two turbos and only retards use carbs with turbos.

>motorcycle carbs
>opening the throttle wide open in a split second

This is how you create an air stall.
It doesn't matter what fuel setup you run, if you open your throttle body too fast at low RPM you'll kill your air speed and air speed = torque. It's more noticeable on motorcyle engines because:
>they have no torque
>the usually run way over sized carbs/throttle bodies so they can hit the high RPM

Idiots like you are the reason most stock motorcycles come with SU style vacuum sliding venturies.
Idiots like you are the reason carb cars from 1980 onwards run vacuum actuated secondaries.
Idiots like you shouldn't talk about what you don't know about.

There's nothing wrong with slides.

That looks like a Mikuni flat side - mechanically actuated slide carb. They are great carbs and an upgrade for most motorcycles but If you open the throttle too fast you'll create an air stall.

Which is why, as I said, most motorcycles have vacuum slide venturies:
>throttle cable opens throttle body
>slide venturi opens from vacuum
>as the engine RPM increase the vacuum increases which lifts up the slide
>ensuring that the air speed never stalls
It's essentially idiot proof.

You're only making arguments for computer controlled fuel systems. There's literally zero reason you couldn't do the same for a carbie.

weve reached peak contrarianism boys. dont know whats going to happen now, but it probably aint pretty.

This thread still going is amazing to me

>his car isn't powered by coal and steam
get a load of this pleb

> he doesn't know about electronically controlled carburetors

You've never driven anything carburated in your life because a lawn mower