Now that the dust has settled, is the FRS/BRZ/86 the greatest drivers car of this generation?

Now that the dust has settled, is the FRS/BRZ/86 the greatest drivers car of this generation?
If you think about it, it's essentially the modern 240sx but better in every way.

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better how? you can make a 240sx do laps around a brz for half the money

You spelled Miata wrong.

A fucking thread died for this

No it has few redeeming factors its not worth the cost and there are superior performing options for less

A civic si is faster

it's only bad for people that are too poor to afford new/better tyres and a couple simple mods

>just void your warranty and go through the huge pain in the ass of modding a fucking car that is in no way modular at all

Enjoy your fucked vvt

Any thread that reaches the bottom deserves to die.

>torque dip
>only 200hp
>toyota makes it uglier every year
>overpriced
>shitty interior
>shitty sound system
>needs new fucking headers just to get rid of the torque dip

>people still respond to bait this obvious

What sucks about the toybaru is that it's the only affordable 4 seater japanese sports car on the market

>4 seater
Sure, if your rear passengers don't have legs

*four Japanese seater

Good enough for children. I sometimes toss a full-sized murican in the back sideways.

2+2 is kind of an overstatement even if it technically is. But sometimes it's close enough to be of actual practical use vs. a two-seater.

>not a miata/spyder 124
>not a 911
>not the boxter
>not the gt-r
>not a mini cooper
>not an M3
>not one of the lotus elise cars

Virtually all of the cars I just listed are faster and still have good handling.

>toss
>full-sized murican
yea nah

You might as well call it toss compared to trying to clamber back out.

I decided to try the back seat for myself (I'm 6'4") while my sales guy went to get a dealer plate so I could take it for a spin. I was trying to tumble myself back out as he was walking back to the car, which elicited a pretty good belly laugh out of him.

>cheap quality
>overpriced
>slow
>still slow
>is donkey slow compared to american pony cars.
You people need to accept the fact that Nip manufacturers don't care about you, they care about your mom and her decision on the new family crossover/minivan.
I wonder how much they paid the creator of initial d to put the 86 in legend 3. I read they also gave him an 86.

If you actually needed 4 seats you should have gotten a GTI, a mazda3, or a civic si.

If you don't, then why don't you get one of the other sports coupes that actually have horsepower?

...

Name one

It is modular though

Miata isnt much faster
Even the 370 wouldve been a better addition to your post

the new Supra isnt a new minivan like mitsus hunk of junk

Easy to add power to it without having the weight of 4 doors
I realize a lot of posters are euroshits so they csnt mod the engine without running into all kinds of issues, but its very easy everyhere else

The new mitsi Evo thing is a pajero not a lancer fuck nugget

And yet the lancer evolution is never coming back

it's almost as if newer cars are more expensive than older cars

really gets the noggin joggin

No, it's a cool car but ultimately a letdown in many ways.

First off, there were a lot of concessions made in terms of its engineering- brakes, engine, and so on. If this were to squeeze it down into the ~20K price bracket those would be forgivable flaws, but it lands squarely in WRX and Mustang territory, and even a V6 Mustang would probably provide more giggles per dollar spent.
(I'm speaking in terms of new / MSRP here by the way)

Second, Toyota absolutely botched its marketing introduction into the US market by calling it the FR-S. All of the pre release press was a circlejerk about "guys the AE86 is coming back!!" and then they drop it into the Scion line because they think it needs to be "edgy" to sell. When your car hits the market and there are immediately kits to re-brand it back away from your offshoot brand, you've fucked up.

And finally, the updates have all been too little too late, and sales are predictably slumping.

It's a cool car to be sure- I applaud Toyota/Subaru for having the balls to make something even resembling a proper RWD car in this day and age, and I happen to like the styling too. My driveway is remarkable in its distinct lack of an 86 though, simply because it's not the exciting groundbreaking vehicle it was hyped up to be.

This is also why I don't hold out much hope for the SF-R.

Or you could just get one of the ones with more power to begin with, saying that you can fix a car with mods is such a cop out because almost any car can be fixed that way. Face the facts, it isn't roomy enough to compete with a hot hatch for practicality and it can't compare to other rwd coupes in being a grand tourer or performance.

Not to mention that dealers across the country have no idea what it is
www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/amp6313/avoidable-contact-at-dealers-the-frs-brz-story-is-told-by-idiots/

It has the capability of good performance with an addition of power, something that nearly every hot hatch you can think of cannot do. I’m not arguing for its practicality btw, since this car isnt bought for its practical use.

Decided to ignore the mention of the other rwd cars? If you want to monkey around with those then older cars like the S2000 and the celica are far superior. And if you're willing to jump over to AWD, the WRX and a ton of audis are much better choices.

I don't really get why it exists, if you want a nimble smol car, get a miata, if you want one with more horse power, get a muscle car. The BRZ is a middle ground with none of the positive of either.

Plus the whole used market exist. I bet most Veeky Forumstists would rather buy some japanese gawdmuhsheed from Japan for $15k and drive a 3k civic as a daily.

I imagine the average buyer of a new brz is probably some soyboy 2 years out of college IT person that buys an automatic to be "sporty"

My GTI destroys these on the regular, and is an infinitely more practical daily.

>inb4 """""""German engineering"""""""
>inb4 """""""electrical problems""""""""

Don't wan't to be a germancuck but the M2 or Porsche GT4 are probably the best sports cars of this generation. We're all fucked anyways since the electric era is apon us.

Ironically enough, I do relate it to the 240sx in that it's absolutely boring stock but a good base to go crazy on.

The difference is I can buy a 240sx for cheap, and used 86's are still too expensive to butcher.

E36 BMW's already existed and are cheaper/faster than the frs/86/brz archetype.
Also a lot cheaper to insure.
But they dont have the bells and whistles granted.

so...this is the power of the toyobaru

>audi
willing to pay for repairs?

Except all of the hot hatches have fun turbos and make a whole lot power a lot cheaper than what you can with the 86.

The used price might have been the determining factor for why I wound up in a BRZ. There wasn't much else to choose from at the price point in my area for a small manual RWD, and I didn't have the time to go carefully look over like an old RX-7 with 170k on the clock to decide what else it might cost me in time and money.

Main objective was to find out if RWD is worth it for me when the time comes to spend real money on a car. I probably would have liked one of the old Miatas better for DD, but I'm not sure if I could made that work an only car due to cargo concerns.

Honestly I have been thinking, do we even have anything to lose at this point? I hate electrics, but besides higher end sportscars, we haven't had anything interesting in a decade plus. S2000 is the last not super expensive thing I can think of that really makes me feel anything when I look at. I feel like I and Veeky Forums should love the brz/86, but looking at it just makes me feel sad at what could've been.

thanks for having itasha

Yeah. used prices seem pretty reasonable, I can't imagine paying $26k for one new though.

not my car. spotted at sfo cell phone lot. has a stanford license frame

>he wants to mod cars without knowing how to fix them

thanks for taking a picture

Celica is FWD and used S2000s are more expensive to obtain and insure.
Also nobody is talking about AWD here

Nobody should buy them new, i agree on that much at least

Any retard in a V8 will smoke your krautshit and my japshit so its nothing to brag about. Also my car doesnt cost a lot to fix and doesnt break every week.

But they arent cheaper to repair in most cases

And have objectively worse handling compared to the 86. Add a turbo to one like it should have come from the factory and there would not even be an argument here.

I admit though if you find an s2000 or an M3 you should probably go with it instead, but the 86 isnt too far off choicewise IMO, especially since they are getting much cheaper since they arent selling very well

>s2000 not super expensive
It cost more when new than an M2 does now.

>Nobody should buy them new, i agree on that much at least

And this is exactly why it is failing- it's only really a compelling buy as a used car, but you gotta move new units to get used units.

Compare it to something like a Miata/Mustang/WRX- there's no issue moving any of those models day in and day out to all sorts of ages and demographics, which means their used markets are incredibly robust. And that's not even a part of the "used vs new" argument of principle- those cars represent something the market will purchase both new and used.

This is criminally shitty marketing too. Dealership shills will say anything to make a sale, and when there's no real well-defined selling points you get clueless salespeople just taking shots in the dark.

You'd be amazed

Idk about "greatest"...

>miata/wrx
>all ages
I highly doubt it, but I do see what you’re saying

You'd be surprised at how many boomers I see in both Miatas and WRXes.

It's the best marriage of price point and handling. Weak engine with a miraculously good body, and if you're wealthy enough to buy and mod it, a supercharger will take you up to a more impressive 300 HP.

>price point
its fucking shit overpriced garbage.

>mod it
its a pain in the ass to mod, its fucking shit
>more impressive 300hp
and blow your VVT with an unproven tune and garbage

you losers make it out like its so easy like legos and its fucking not at all.

>It is modular though
Its not modular at all

There is nothing about this car that is remotely designed to be changed and replaced with anything other than OEM parts. The ECU is encrypted, the suspension and every part in it is designed specifically to fit with absolutely no evidence of modularity at all.

Nice bait but its a good chassis with excellent capability to be modded
And swapping the engine makes perfect sense on it. Especially in non-nanny states

One of the most common things people do is rework the ECU to reduce throttle lag and adjust to new headers. Try harder

>Nice bait but its a good chassis with excellent capability to be modded
No its fucking not
youtube.com/watch?v=GT717HBSSNE

Watch this entire series about how they take a FRS and put a super charger on it with associated parts and tunes. The car experiences loads of fucking problems because its such a hob job to mod despite being professionally tuned and installed. The tunes were incredibly unstable and oil pressure and temperature were always an issue despite having a better oil pump and oil cooler.

You retards are the perfect example of what Veeky Forums is; a bunch of experts on every car and thing you've never driven.

Yea just buy a used POS 86, and pay who knows how much money to swap it and tune it with unproven, unwarrantied, tunes.

1000 dollars for headers and how ever how much for a tune. Good job, you bought a problem car and justify fixing issues from the OEM by just saying "everyone does it" as if its so simple when its not at all.

he got a very early model vortech supercharger, if you're smart you wait it out and let them work out the bugs. The edelbrock kit is good

none of it was good, if you watch the entire video almost every part had fitting issues and performance issues because of the way the car was designed. He even says it "Toyota designed this car with every part having a purpose and fit in mind" Theres no room for modding, theres no fitting for any of this stuff.

He even notes with the tune that it had wicked problems with retarding the timing. The tune despite its best efforts couldn't get rid of the car constantly pulling back despite using high quality fuel and low pressure. One headache after another.

>savagegeese
Lol this is a joke right? He made up non-issues to sell his own 86 after he fucked it with a “pro tune up”

Nothing you typed disproves it being modular. Gj

He should’ve just used a new engine
Also
>savagegeese
You’re retarded for watching this whole thing

>he made up nonissues
>has video proof and documentation of issues.

>it was a fucked up tune
>from an actual reputable high performance tune company
the shilling is real.

>Nothing you typed disproves it being modular. Gj


>Nothing you typed disproves it being modular. Gj
Its not modular at all, look through the video, theres no room for anything. You can't name one modular thing in modding this car, he points out every single issue having fitting issues

>I don't like that car reviewer because he doesn't say good things about this platform and I don't like it.

do you even know how many revisions the vortech kit has had, friendo? there were better options at the time and of course there's gonna be alot of hiccups on a new platform when tuning he had a 13 model and supercharged it way too soon.

It will be considered one of the greatest used cars you can get in 10 years when 35 year old Veeky Forums finally gets that manager position at their local supermarket and can afford a 130k mile specimen. 45 year old Veeky Forums's son will nostalgically lament about the lack of ICE, rear-wheel drive, lightweight cars in his future and post crying, frustrated VR frogs in the deep illegal sub-net of the corporate internet sector he's in.

>shills a youtuber
>calls me a shill
How odd
Also he’s doing the car equivalent of fitting a square peg in a round hole. This guy is a moron and you are too for watching this.

Well theres no way hes going back just to do up another shitty vehicle after spending a year alone on tuning software

he shouldnt have been modding it right away, he offered himself as the guinea pig. someone has to do it

>suggests a youtuber that has documented extensively the entire journey with supercharging an n/a engine
>no ur a shill that doesn't count because I said so
yea I'm a shill but you wanna spew unsubstantiated nonsense and don't have anything to back up but shitty one worded rebuttals

hindsight is 20/20

it was a 2014 model IIRC so there was over 3 years of modding community at that point? the platform started in 2012

youtube.com/watch?v=se5LVsiTfvo


Theres 4 parts to the series and he goes through all of it. First 2 videos is nothing but fitting issues and tuning problems.

He’s a reviewer with little to no merit that fucked up what was otherwise a simple tune. Many examples of successful modification to the 86 exist and you choose to dwell on some e-celeb faggots experience on his early model fr-s.
Try harder

Just buy a better car from the getgo

Why blow thousands on a car just to spend thousands more to make it good when you could easily get a better car that is stock for cheaper than all this headache and shit?

Hell, why buy a 26k gt86 when you can get a 370z that'll be faster than your gt86 even with a supercharger.

>why buy a 26k gt86 when you can get a 370z that'll be faster than your gt86 even with a supercharger
because the 370 is still heavy

>no merit
what does this even mean? So hes not popular enough to warrant discussion?

>fucked up a simple tune
>5 tunes across separate companies

Oh but I thought you said this was early adoption and that the technology was limited?>many examples
and so little people actually walk through all the effort they've gone through to get there.

>e-celeb
oh so first he didn't have merit because he wasn't popular but now he's an e-celeb?
>early model FRS
so you admit hypocritically that the technology was limited?

its only 3200lbs where do you faggots get this "its heavy" shit. I know for a fact the 370z is going to do circles around it and hoon harder because its flat out better

It's 500 pounds heavier and it could be argued the 370 is overpriced since base model doesn't offer lsd. Brz is perfect at 25k

corvette

You have to pay way more for something better

He fucked up a tune on a car that has been modded endlessly. And the only reason you care is because you’re an e-celeb loving shill. His main thing is to review cars, not mod them. You’re an idiot, and 3000+ lbs for a sports car IS heavy.

A reviewer that documents all their findings? Man I wish might car mods would do that. I'd rather give merit to a guy that actually cites his shit than just runs his opinion like farts in the wind

This is why you retards will never get your heads out of your asses. All this tuning and nodding shit is ham fisted, home brewed garbage that has little to no engineering put into any of it. Anyone who actually does put that level of effort in gets taken up to a real car company engineering real solutions for performance. Not back yard nonsense like you people spew who snap their fingers and say "just mod it" makes it so like it's easier than anything.

>You have to pay way more for something better
A 370z will out perform a brz any day. Throw your shitty 5k supercharger into it and it still will. You're the expert on everything you know nothing about.

>He fucked up a tune on a car that has been modded endlessly.
The car didn't get fucked up, he could never get a stable tune because all 5 of the sources he went to didn't work at all. If you watched the video. You'd know he sold it after playing with tunes for over a year.

>his main thing isn't to mod cars
what is this a job description? He had it properly installed after sifting through the 2 dozen fitting issues not including all the tuning issues. He's not autonomously disposed to "just reviews" because you said so.

How can you say "he isn't meant to mod" and then casually suggest in every fucking thread this car is on that it can be kodded like anyone can fucking do it in their back yard on a lazy afternoon

>3000lbs+ is heavy
Says you, a moron suggesting people casually do complex modifications to a car that clearly wasn't meant to be touched at all. You have no authority on anything to call anything heavy because all you have is an uneducated opinion. That brz is gonna get lit up I guarantee it. No 500lbs is going to matter at all the same way the wrx runs circles around the brz despite having only 500 extra pounds. Maybe because you're a moron who thinks in simple metrics and won't look outside of mere numbers to determine performance like you do to determine if something is arbitrarily heavy or not

>You're the expert on everything you know nothing about
and what makes you any more knowledgeable, you imply the extra weight means nothing. You get false senses with the extra power fooling you until you actually drive on good roads. Then again you're probably a stoplight racer

Savagegeese is a review guy. His “documentation” is weak and doesn’t explain the problem in any level of detail. Keep spouting the same garbage though, I’m sure it works on your retarded friends.

But the 370 still costs way more in every regard, even when modding it. And it only barely outperforms the 86
Also, saying
>the car didn’t get fucked up, its the car that sucks!!
Isn’t winning arguments. They fucked up the tune, and sold it after just 1 year of failing to undo their fuck up. Face it or don’t, you’re shilling for a hack who hasn’t tried modding anything since then anyways. Stick to watching his self-masturbatory trailers and please never come back here.

Please fuck off to the youtube comments section where you belong. Beyond shilling his merchandise and making movie trailers about how cool he thinks he is, savagegeese lost all credibility a long time ago. All he ever does is review commuter cars now.

Yes. It pisses on anything else in its price range up to and including the 4C.

>>torque dip
Nore torque in the dip than the top spec Miata has at the same point in the rev range.
>>only 200hp
33% more power than the top Spec Miata
>>overpriced
Significantly cheaper than the slower top spec Miata.

In all fairness there's no other low octane 2l NA engines that I know of that make 200hp standard

WHY should I spend 20k on a GT86/BRZ when I get a BMW 328i E36 in good condition for 5-7k euro? The 328i is faster than the GT86/BRZ, the M52B28 engine is easy to mod with simple bolt ons and it sounds 100 times better. Pic related
>0-60 in 6.2 sec
>Straight six engine
>youngtimer in a few years

>All dat suspension travel
>Not shit to drive

I really like the shape of the spoiler. Could be taller though

>any modern german shitheap
It's not the 1990's anymore.
GT-R costs like 3 times more.
Putting Mini Cooper on there makes me think you're trolling.
Lotus costs like 2 times more and is 2 times less practical.
>a fiat lmao

They fucked it up with boxer engine.

Should have been inline 4.

What makes you say that?

only good for ricing
shit car to mod

It's now slower than a new turbo 1.5L tuned Civic and costs like 15k more.

What the fuck are you even talking about? After 20 years no fucking 328i has his stock suspension anymore. Nearly everyone throw a koni or kw suspensions in this car.

>It's slower than a turbo car

I'm talking about cars being dropped on their arse being arse to drive on the road.

Don't matter if Koni or whatever most people do such a ghetto job with lowering their cars severely limiting suspension travel especially downtravel and making their car drive like shit compared to stock.

i like the thought of the FRS but when you can buy an m3 with 340 hp for twelve grand u get the m3