Instead of using brakes in a manuel car is it ok to downshift and let the engine slow you down?

Instead of using brakes in a manuel car is it ok to downshift and let the engine slow you down?

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That's one of the joys of a manual. Learn to rev-match so you don't bang the synchros around as much and wear the clutch dragging the engine up to speed.

But why though
Just use your goddamn breaks

Generally puts more strain on a car than just braking and downshifting but you won't ever own a car not in your mommies name so don't worry about it.

what happened today?

It's fun and I like the noise it makes
How to rev match? What's it do?

Just got out of the dentist with two new crowns.
Got a little over zealous there, sorry desu

it's fine, i'm the mean police yknow gotta keep anons in check

Brake pads are a little bit cheaper than a top end

>How to rev match
In the easy basic form that means when you put in the clutch you find an opportunity to give the throttle a quick jab so that when you take the clutch back out the engine is already spinning at something close to the speed it would be in the lower gear.

That's easier to do when you're lazily coming to a stop at a red light or knocking it down a gear or two for a highway off ramp because you have plenty of time. If you want to get pro at doing it in a pinch then you wind up learning how to "heel-toe" or something like that which is a more complicated maneuver that might or might not be easy to do depending on your seating position and how your car's pedals are layed out.

youtube.com/watch?v=5SQBBGb7GPI
this guy is pretty good at explaining rev matching, only thing wrong with the video is that he shills some shoes at the beginning

>is it okay to take strain off of a cheap easily replacable item intended to be worn down and replaced, and move that strain onto an expensive and difficult to replace part not designed to be strained in this way?
Yes dude it's an amazing idea and you should do it every day. Like why do they even put brakes on a car?

What do you guys actually learn when u take driving lessons? Are you not taught to downchange when going downhill so you dont have to brake constantly? when you are driving up to a roundabout do you not downshift? I know americans dont understand manuals but what about the rest of you?

>Not linking engineering explained

Because EE a shit and Veeky Forums rejected him a LONG time ago.

There's no hill this side of the Himalayas that's steep enough anyone would meet to downshift for unless you drive a heavy duty truck.

Lol ok, but he explains shit way better and faster

any normal driving situation does not require rev-matching, so if you really think it's necessary then you're driving like a cunt and should go fuck yourself.

Which side of the Himalayas? There are a number of hills on many of my usual routes where I would have to ride the brakes if I left it in top gear.

Not to mention lots of little hills and turns where it's desirable and pleasant to drop gears to slow down to a stop or to take the turn.

if you release the clutch slowly and are changing to the correct gear and using the brakes you're fine.

>but muh clutch wear

if any of you are that worried about a wear item getting wear you would never accelerate hard either. i replaced my clutch at 140k~ miles from new, which seems to be the high end of estimates (but there are always disagreements on how long certain car parts should last due to different manufacturer reliability expectations)

>Drive a long stretch
>Eventually you catch up to somebody in a newer nicer car
>They are tapping the brake lightly at every single corner
>Never go beyond tapping
Then again, isn't the main benefit of downswitching, that it also stacks with braking? Unless we are talking hardcore usage of ABS.

Yeah. If you have serious braking to do then engine braking can take a bunch of load off of the brakes and make things easier and more controllable, particularly if you wind up needing to feather back on to the throttle in a lower gear when you're done slowing down.

It's also nice in the rain or the snow or whatever because even though it slows the wheels down, the engine will never lock them up and cause them to stop turning even if you do wind up sliding a bit. ABS has much less work to do if you do get on the brakes as well.

The driving manual I have advises you do it on hills, yeah. Just don't blow your car up banging the redline in 5th then dropping to 1st

>Doesn't like to save gas and have smooth down shifts...

>2018
>revmatching when you have synchros

Ayy lmao

Feel sorry for your clutch

It snicks right in when you have it close tho.

Even upshifting some attention may be in order. I've discovered that going from the top of 3rd all the way to 5th or 6th in one one smooth motion requires a little bit of finesse if I don't want to sit there and lean on the synchros.

>watch skip barber video fir how to go faster
>recommends double clutching
>says the gorilla racer will force gear changes where a skilled driver can keep driving without a clutch
Should I double clutch on down shifts?

No, the engine will literally explode and throw a rod straight up your boi*ussi if you do so.

I agree

Honda ricer detected. You are one of the shittiest types of drivers, even more so than huge truckers.

For a normal road car with synchros, double-clutching seems like overkill most of the time unless you just like to do it for fun or practice or whatever.

That being said I wind up double-clutching from time to time because sometimes it's just too much work for my synchros to handle if I want to make fast, smooth gear changes. Dropping into 2nd for instance, or that oddball occasion when I want to go all the way down to first without it being like stop and go traffic or something slow like that.

>rev-matching
>not shifting down, keeping the clutch in and bringing it up when you feel the right moment
Do you fags just wear thick shoes or what? I can gauge exactly what my car is going to do just through the feeling of the clutch.

>green light
>lets it roll back and then brings the clutch up
please don't do this. When you come to a stop, you should keep your brakes fully engaged, bring your clutch up to the biting point then you can just keep the car in-place with the clutch. When you have to move off, just apply some accelerator and lift the clutch a bit more

I could feel it like that in my past two cars. It's on my to do list this summer to see if I need to adjust something on my current car or whether I'm stuck with the weird numbness as a byproduct of transmission design or because that's what hydraulic clutches are like or whatever.

i have smooth downshifts without revmatching, the clutch isn't an on-off switch m8

are you a trucker and/or racing driver? then yes

are you driving on public roads like a normal person? hell the fuck no.

>ride shotgun with a female friend
>she just fucking downshifts , whole car shakes and engine cries for help
>"ooops heheh"

My brass syncro ring in my 2nd gear is completely destroyed, so rev matching is required for me

If it's not quite destroyed but just worn down a bunch you might get something out of trying a different gear oil. I had a used car with a dodgy synchro for 2nd gear once and redline shockproof made it so that I rarely had trouble getting it into gear as long as it was anywhere close to spinning at the right speed.

>tfw your car's pedal layout is designed around automatic transmission and there's no room to heel-toe properly

The fastest way to brake is to do both downshifting and braking. It is also the safest as you still have ppwer if you need it. But fuck that I'm gonna put the wear on my brake pads not my engine/tranny. The only reason I ever downshift is for the awesome noise or to impress someone driving AT

>Wearing the clutch, which is a pain in the butt and expensive to replace, instead of just spending the extra two pennies in fuel at the next fill up.
If you don't like listening to the engine blip and burble or feel satisfied with a perfect match there must be something wrong with you.

I don't know but I think I might have spent more on pads and rotors over the years than the one time I put in a new clutch. And doing the clutch was a great opportunity to put in a light weight flywheel, which turned out to be one of my favorite adjustments.

Synchromesh has nothing to do with rev matching. Rev matching downshifts (and upshifts, though this is obviously not done via a throttle blip) is to ensure the clutch plates are spinning at roughly the same speed so they come together smoothly. Synchromesh gears eliminate the need to double declutch by synchronising the rotation of the cogs themselves.

Not rev-matching shows a lack of mechanical sympathy and poor car control and is thus regarded as poor driving

>blip and burble

on Veeky Forums that's more likely a fartbox, not actual engine tone.

>poor car control

lol

except you like a poser, its cringy af

Yes its simply juan way of slowing your car in a manuel.

so how do you guys stop a vehicle with rev matching? do you get into second gear like 100 yards away from the light and roll to a stop?

I usually stop downshifting at 3rd, maybe 2nd if I wasn't going very fast. The rest is brakes as usual. 100 yards is enough room to for a single casual downshift on the way to the stop.

that's what i do as well. but i read on here all the time about people stopping their cars without ever using the brakes and seeing it enough times makes me wonder if i'm doing something wrong or if i'm being memed

Second yeah, first is a big ratio jump and can be a bit cranky but you just shift back through the gears as you slow. I'm assuming we're talking just approaching regular lights and shit here.

if you rev match perfectly you'll save on gas and brake pads

Stopping without brakes, not unless you're going uphill or you let the car drift to a stop which is going to be a long as fuck stop.

I coast up to every stop in neutral, fite me

I don't think that's even possible unless you manage to trick the engine into stalling. Ever try to drive without braking? Or even just only using the hand brake? Downshifting a lot makes it easier but it's not easy.

Shifter forks for mine are $20 each. Two of them.

>making your clutch lass a month less while making your brakes last 2 days more

>confirmed unable to rev match

I engine break in my bike all the time desu.
try to avoid using the brakes as much as possible honestly.

Why is Veeky Forums butthurt towards EE?

>clutches aren't designed to be worn down and replaced

I'll occasionally downshift to third, but mostly roll in fourth until about 1300rpm and then put it in neutral and brake.
I don't see how it's dangerous. If you see someone speeding up from behind, steer for the ditch.

Do you srsly, unironically leave your car in neutral while waiting for a green light?

Who doesn't do that?

Normal people, I think.

So you put in 1st and hold the clutch while waiting for the green? Or I'm misunderstanding something here?

yes.
I also don't coast in neutral.

Lol. Coasting in gear is ok if youre either slowing down or going downhill as it uses less fuel than coasting in neutral. Sitting at a light in gear with the clutch in is plain fucking retarded because youre murdering the fuck out of your throwout bearing for no reason.

I'm just curious why are you surprised when somebody is doing it differently than you.

if I'm going to be stopped for a long time, i'll put it into neutral, but if I'm going to be there for like 30 seconds, its easier to just leave it in gear. that's just what I was taught, and its what lots of people I know were taught.
I think the reason why I do it is so that I can't forget that I put it into neutral. I basically never use neutral anyway.

Yes. Everyone I know in Australia drives like this. What advantages do you are you gaining by sitting in neutral?
>sitting with the clutch in fucks the thrust bearing for some reason
Lmao. Who told you this shit?

You will still wear the synchros when rev matching if you don't double clutch

If you don't believe me now, wait until you have to double clutch into first.

No, all driving situations require rev matching. You do not have a fluid coupling, you have a solid coupling. If you don't rev match you will fucking destroy it, and never notice because you drive like a grandpa and never give it enough gas for the fucked up clutch to start to give anyways.

if you find rev matching obnoxious and ricey, perhaps that's just your CAI and fartcan.

>advantages
Nothing. You just leave in neutral and chill. That's how people drive in EU.

But i do double clutch into first.

>things an automatic transmission can do that retards on Veeky Forums can't "because that's for racecars":
>downshift while braking
>downshift without driveline shock or excessive wear on any components

>never use neutral
So you drive an automatic then? If this is how you were taught in a 5spd car then you simply were taught wrong. Keep the clutch down at a light is really bad for your throwout bearing. When that goes, you have to pull the clutch, meaning you generally replace the clutch while the tranny is out because why not.

If youre at a stop, you go to neutral. Its very simple. Also in what flyover state is 30 seconds at a light considered a short amount of time?

>his throwout bearing is defective

why do you shitposters say replacing the clutch is easy

maybe on a motorcycle but the vast majority of the time you'll at least need a way to separate and support the tranny and some cars require just pulling the whole engine

it's way beyond "one jack, 4 stands, and a box of wrenches" tier shit

Its simple mechanics? A bearing that gets used constantly is a bearing that gets worn. Want to wear it out before your clutch gets worn out? Keep doing what you are doing. Youre practically going out of your way to put wear and tear on your car for literally zero reason.

Why not sit in neutral like youre supposed to? Thats literally its purpose. You can shift to 1st and hold the clutch in just before the light changes if you really gottagofast.

>no

If you're shifting into 2nd at 45mph or something just to slow down, you might put some unnecessary wear on your clutch if you suck at rev matching, but it's not going to damage anything in your engine or gearbox. Both parts of your car are capable of withstanding the stresses of accelerating the car to those speeds, so decelerating from those speeds isn't putting any additional stress on them.

Because it is. One jack for the transmission, one for the engnie and some straps. Grab the entire engine and wiggle it on to the input shaft.

What's so hard about that?

You might need an extra set of hands if you're not swole and you will probably need to resurface the flywheel

you don't do that. you leave it in first and hold the clutch in. that's what you're supposed to do. stop being a fucking retard.
also 30 seconds at a light isn't that long at all in a major city.

Holy shit do you actually hold the clutch in 1st at every single redlight? There’s no way you’ve ever driven manual

The more you use something, the more worn it gets. Can't believe that there is discussion about this. These guys must be trolling or they really are special.

Do you also launch when the light turns green? Gotta take off fast.

Because "easy" is generally correlated with things like changing your oil or your sparkplugs, or maybe putting in a radio, or throwing on a new exhaust. Not dropping your fucking transmission. Nobody is saying its hard, you could argue most repair jobs are not "hard" and are merely time consuming. Its just that saying "easy" is a highly inaccurate and misleading label.

Resurfacing the flywheel was a bust. But the engine was like 300lbs wet give or take. I don't need to be swole to hustle it back on so I can work it on to the input shaft and then get the bell housing bolts tighened back down.

yes, of course I do.
as stated, literally everyone in australia does this.

no. now you're just being a retard.

>300lb engine
>being an enginelet

Subaru best ru. Eat shit.

Australians kill their clutches before their throwout bearings regardless, what with the burnouts and all, so they're an exception. You're still being retarded.

>shifting into first again is sooo harrrdddd

You will wear your synchros downshifting in a manual without double clutching. The wear is minimal though, so as far as downshifting vs braking, I'd say it's up to preference and the current situation. If you are pushing a car to the limit where it's vital that you remain in gear, downshifting will be necessary, as well as coming up to a turn or a change in speed limit. Otherwise, I'd use the brakes most times.

>thats what youre supposed to do
Are you literally this fucking stupid? Ok yeah, maybe at a stop sign where you are stopped for a couple of seconds you do it out of laziness. But at a stop light? Please tell me you are trolling, im simply not able to comprehend that not only you do this stupid shit, but everyone you know is also this fucking dumb.

Christ, this thread is retarded. Amerifats arguing about engine breaking when they've never even SEEN a manual car.

Engine breaking is literally how you drive a manual and if you don't do it, you're an moron.

never had to replace a throwout bearing before, so clearly I'm doing something right.

thats cause you're too dumb to comprehend logic

I physically cannot comprehend how anyone could drive a manual and not revmatch at least a couple gears down as you roll to a stop.

Yeah dude. I bet these people are the ones that can't put petrol in their own car properly.

>i never had to replace a throwout bearing before
Good arguement. I smoke 4 packs of cigarettes a day and wash it down with everclear and i never had throat cancer before so clearly im doing something right.