/utg/ - Undertale General

>temporary
Tell that to Flowey

I wish I could.

Even if you think a mercy kill is the right call in his case it's a bit extreme to apply that to everyone else.

Yeah, probably. But it's either that or leave them all trapped underground. Maybe it's best to just put the whole world to sleep.

Bro mayhaps this binary thinking is less than healthy

ow the edge

What are you talking about? It's perfectly healthy.

I thought we agreed last time that you preferred genocide because it's narratively more satisfying to you, not because it's actually morally preferrable

Gotta justify my bullshit somehow. But a fair compromise would be to say I find it *personally* morally preferable.

I assume this conversation will drag on forever.

Nope, it's already over. There isn't anything more to say.

Shut the fuck up, please.

Frisk's sensitive nipples!
Frisk's sensitive neck!
Frisk's sensitive prostate!

...

So none of the Undertales are truly aware of what happens during the TP Final Boss and how the barrier broke, and the only thing they seem to retain from it is Frisk's name. I wonder what would happen if they truly became cognisant of who they were a part of and remembered everything.

...

no

...

>I wonder what would happen if they truly became cognisant of who they were a part of and remembered everything
Toriel and Asgore would feel very sad. Alphys would freak out because she flower-ized the fucking prince.

Wait...
That actually exists?

Oh yes, user. And the sequel with Asgore is just around the corner

They string Frisk up for being a false prophet and not even crediting Chara and Asriel for their efforts..

...

Ahahaha

We're all going to hell

My musing was poorly phrased, I meant what if this happened during the TP Fight. Might turn out the same, might not.

I have an inkling Asgore (or Toriel, but Asgore's more likely) might refuse to leave him after Asriel breaks the barrier. After his own century of isolation and his attempts of suicide by cop he'd refuse to let go. Even if you say that's not enough and he'll still be Flowey, Asgore wouldn't care.

>I have an inkling Asgore (or Toriel, but Asgore's more likely) might refuse to leave him after Asriel breaks the barrier
Wouldn't that be a riot, the whole Dreemurr family, stuck in a hole together. Forever. Even better is that Chara is buried just beneath their feet.

>an inkling Asgore
that sounds kinda cute desu

Alphys has cameras all over the underground, and is tasked with studying the barrier. How likely do you think it is she has a camera in the barrier room and knows what happened during the final TP and neutral fights?
There's no way she would reveal what happened when that also means revealing her own role.

>Even if you say that's not enough and he'll still be Flowey, Asgore wouldn't care.
Flowey would have to convince him to leave him alone and that he can't feel love so he's just wasting his time. Who knows if Asgore would even listen. Probably not. Might even beg Frisk to RESET after a while.

yes

That's implying it's something people could have seen with just a camera, shit's warped all around there

I don't think it matters if she did or didn't. The TP fight didn't take place "anywhere" if you catch my drift. I'm sure she saw what happened with Asgore, but once again after Flowey absorbs the souls any feed would cut out.

...

Real Asriel hours let's go?

I'm pretty sure begging Frisk to reset from that point would be entirely pointless it comes with a memory wipe, so it'd likely just play out the same way all over again

But he wouldn't be soulless, he'd have Asgore's soul. And if you wanted to soften it you could say that's enough to maintain the goat form after the massive influx of power needed to overcome the flower. Now Asriel/Flowey would almost certainly try to expel him, but he'd refuse.

Both fights have Flowey visible and recognizable as the one fucking up everything before it cuts to the really weird shit that cameras can't capture.

>so it'd likely just play out the same way all over again
Ahh, don'tcha just love endless cycles?

Asriel's magnificence just short-circuits cameras

>But he wouldn't be soulless, he'd have Asgore's soul
Are you suggesting Asgore would off himself so Asriel could absorb his soul? Not sure if that'd work, but it's definitely within the realm of plausibility. Since the two are inextricably connected as goat children feed off of the strength of their parents' souls to grow.

Still, that would fuck him up in the head pretty good.

For a moment it seemed implausible but then I remembered that he does it for Frisk in some endings.
Asgore is not a happy goat.

Asgore literally just runs into the room, screams about how he's going to save his poor son, stabs himself in the gut and expires before Flowey's eyes.

His final words as his body dissolves are BAZINGA

And of course a single monster soul won't do fuck all, because why would it.

>Asgore is not a happy goat
None of them are.

No the chain of events is:
- Flowey gets all the souls, becomes goat
- TP Fight
- During the Fight, Asgore's soul (and maybe others) realises what's going on
- Asriel wises up, breaks the barrier, and releases the souls
- But Asgore's soul remains within him and refuses to leave

>And of course a single monster soul won't do fuck all, because why would it.
>even in death Asgore is a failure

A comedy in which Asgore repeatedly tries to "accidentally" die when he's with Flowey; each time it fails in a hilarious way and everyone rolls their eyes

Meh, I like my version of events more. Either way, I don't think a single monster soul would do jack shit. But Asgore would be so delusional and never allow himself to leave, so he'd also be dead. And Asriel would still be a flower.

>Dad it's literally doing nothing
>Be calm, Asriel, just give it time
>IT'S BEEN FIVE MONTHS

Even if he's still a flower, he now has a soul with which to feel positive things and might actually be able to have a life with the others.

True dat

>he doesn't have love with six human souls
>he only has love and his original form with six human souls and almost all the monster souls
>has love with just one monster soul

Sure buddy.

He didn't have love as a goat either until Frisk reminded him "hey those souls can make you feel love bro". I don't think he needs seven human souls to care about someone..

>he doesn't have love with six human souls
Actually he does (or could), he's just still fucking crazy. The main difference between neutral and TP is the monsters' souls are innately compassionate and that affects him.

Plus apparently love, compassion and hope or whatever Care Bears shit isn't necessary for a human soul.

But it's a pointless discussion either way.

He has love after losing all the souls but before turning back.
My hypothesis is that it's the form that enables it, not the direct influence of the souls.

If a single monster soul were enough to make him feel, don't you think he would have tried that previously?

>don't you think he would have tried that previously?
Good point. He's done "everything" but hasn't tried absorbing one of his parents' souls? It probably doesn't work.

>The main difference between neutral and TP is the monsters' souls are innately compassionate and that affects him.
>Plus apparently love, compassion and hope or whatever Care Bears shit isn't necessary for a human soul.

I don't really know why everyone cites a book written about a subject nobody knows anything about and written by member(s) of a species that have been previously nearly exterminated. Like it's any surprise they'd assume humans don't need compassion and love, because they can't reconcile that with the war.

Interesting point. It would have to be a boss monster soul, though.

Not even just absorbing their souls on his own, I'm pretty sure that either of them would have willingly given their soul just so he could try and feel again. Sure, if it worked, his reborn compassion might have driven him to immediately reset again, but this idea is never cited.

He's spent time with Asgore and Toriel in the vain hope they'd make him feel something, reset, and some time later, killed them. But he didn't absorb either of their souls? I don't buy it.

It doesn't work.

Exactly, he wouldn't go straight for the near-godly power of six souls + Frisk, if he didn't think it was necessary to begin with.

He kills Asgore at the end of the game, but is it canon that he kills either of them pre-game? I do think it's likely.

I'd rather kill Toriel for her soul to give to Asriel than Asgore desu

Why didn't Asriel reset to before he died, grab his soul before it disappeared, and kick Chara in the nuts/cunt?

I think by the time he moved past making friends and killing everyone to "hey maybe I should get a soul", he's targeted the human souls as what he wants, being way more powerful. I think it wouldn't occur to him to set his sights lower and take one of his parents' souls. He'd just try to brute force a human soul away from his dad until he gave up and started doing other things until Frisk turned up.

Or there could be a fic where he tries this, and it works, and he gets so overwhelmed by the guilt of what he did he resets instinctually and develops a mental block for "no don't do that again just go for humans"

>reset is time travel anywhere

user...

That's nice but we've just established that it wouldn't work either way.

He didn't have the requisite determination until Alphys' experiments. You can only go back to when you first had the DT needed.

I dunno, this really wouldn't make any sense. He wants to be powerful so he goes for the human souls ignoring monsters and then when it doesn't work, he gives up until Frisk arrives.

That's like failing to enter a house through a brick wall and a locked door and never bothering to check if the window is open.

...

>Toriel sacrificing something for someone else
Non-canon as fuck

I guess he's not as all-powerful as he said he was, then.

It's interesting that just about every save fic runs on the assumption that one soul will do when the game all but confirms you need seven, at least to get past the initial hurdle.

>I think it wouldn't occur to him to set his sights lower and take one of his parents' souls.
That seems like a ridiculous oversight on his part.

This.

They're running on the assumption that you just need enough power to "hold" him in his goat form, but have no idea how much power that is because the stupid little fuck went from infinity to zero.

But the idea that a single monster soul, albeit a Boss Monsters', would do the trick is asinine. At least those shitty fics usually have it be a human soul, because those have some oomph to them.

He's not a super genius. He's a child with a lot of knowledge about how certain people will behave on certain days, and just because he tries everything he can think of it doesn't mean he tries literally everything. He betrays a sense of impatience when Frisk doesn't play along with the friendliness pellets, and I think it's in him to lurch from trying one thing to the next without taking a reset or two to stop and think about things clearly.

The major flaw I have with your logic is that he's willing to kill his parents, but not willing to then eat their souls? I mean, come on. Are you telling me that as soon as he's finished doing the deed and sees that shiny boss monster soul just floating there, he wouldn't at least snatch it out of curiosity?

I wonder how many emails Toby has gotten from people asking him to make it possible to SAVE Asriel.

I wonder if he prints them out and uses them as fapkins

Look, I don't believe he's a super genius either. Did he read every book? Probably. Did he understand all of them? I hardly think so. But if he's specifically missing a soul, wants a soul, wants to feel again, knows that monster souls are full of compassion and is already deep enough in the hole to kill, there is no fucking way he wouldn't try to take a monster soul, or that either of his parents wouldn't give him their soul of their own free will, in the vain hope it'll work.

It just doesn't make sense, whether you're running with child or adult logic.

Well he deliberately breaks Asgore's soul on top of killing him, so either he's already done it and won't again for [reason], or yes it literally never occurred to him.

>But the idea that a single monster soul, albeit a Boss Monsters', would do the trick is asinine.
I think it's a failing of the game's own lore in that sense. There's no reason why it *shouldn't* work, yet Flowey needed 7 human souls (worth) to go from Flowey to Asriel + feelings, and 6 only let him be Omega Flowey with no feelings at all. Meanwhile Flowey claims he can't feel love because he lacks a soul.

The spider a cute! CUTE!!!

>so either he's already done it and won't again for [reason]
He does it so YOU can't absorb it and then escape. But since he does so with zero hesitation then it seems pretty clear he thinks it's useless. It's just far more likely IMO that this is from experience, and not just an assumption.

No!

But can the spider provide a mathematical proof the spider is not cute?!

This SOUL shit is pretty poorly defined and explained. Humans = almost every monster, but 1 human soul's worth of monsters is suddenly enough to give him compassion when 6 human souls couldn't? Then it has to be the monsters souls and not the power that is responsible, right? So why can't he just take one and live as a feeling flower? Why hasn't he done that already? It must have not worked.

The Flower a cute!

On the other hand, Flowey is neither human or monster, he is a vessel designed to wield souls. He may be able to use souls, but his natural state of being might be soulless from conception.

Are you people still trying to find ways to save Asriel? It's been 2 years.

>but his natural state of being might be soulless from conception
Thanks Alphys