Abarth 124

>2400lbs/1080kg
>207whp/214wtrq with a tune (no trace when removed for warranty work)
>cheaper than a Miata, at least in my country
>better suspension than a Miata
>looks and sounds great
>luggage problem fixed with a boot bag
>#1 cheapest new sports car to insure
>can trick normies into thinking I'm a heterosexual who drives an Italian sports car when I'm actually a gay hairdresser in a Miata
Convince me not to buy one as a DD

Other urls found in this thread:

jalopnik.com/the-2017-fiat-124-spider-really-is-better-than-the-miat-1781392740
autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Used Cars/Porsche/Boxster?listingTypes=used&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=BOXSTE&makeCodeList=POR&trimCodeList=BOXSTE|S&searchRadius=0
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Boxster/Cayman#Boxster_986_model_history
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

I prefer the ND, but that's a damn nice car.

If it came with a hardtop, I would be all over it. Convertibles just kind of fuck up the lines of a car imo.

Also, how is it the cheapest new sports car to insure? Wouldn't the ND be cheaper, or hell, even the base 124? They both have less power and are cheaper iirc.

I'm assuming the hood isn't carbon fiber, which really activates my almonds. If there is some sort of aftermarket selection for a carbon fiber replacement hood, that would be fantastic. Then again, I'm sure you can go through the dealer to get one without the painted hood.

If you have the money, go for it. I would only be worried about the reliability, but it shouldn't be all that bad, as a shit load of components are sourced from Mazda, which has been doing much better reliability-wise.

>pic related, color I think looks much better than the white in OP's post; I can even tolerate the painted hood in this color

some countries tax/insure based more on displacement or lack of 4 doors than power figure

>hardtop
>see

Again with the shitposting mjet?

Isn't one thread enough for today?

stock powerband is really awful, all peak with no build or top end. if you like that, great.
a tune fixes it though
as far as i know it can't be "truly" flashed because the ECU hasn't been cracked yet so you're limited in your control

turbo swaps are ultra easy though, it's like on top of the engine in full view, also the bay's a good size so a better intake and exhaust will be ez

i actually like the matte hood and trunk and it'd probably last longer than some plastidip, but nobody is buying them that way and dealers don't stock them like that

they're also holding their value freakishly well for a fiat

So did these come with the Miata's transmission? Cause if that's the case, that means one could probably work an adaptor kit for the older Miata trans, and NA/NB owners can have an Italian powered Miata

I'm not mjet, I wouldn't buy a Fiat unless it was actually a Mazda made in Japan with a Fiat badge on it. I doubt he could afford this either.
ND and 124 are about the same. Average insurance quote in the US (I'm not in the US but I couldn't find figures for my country) is about 1200/yr for both of them. In comparison, the 370Z/WRX/Mustang GT/Camaro SS are all in the 1800/yr range and the BRZ/86 is about 1400. That's a lot of savings.

NC transmission, so not really

So then swap the NC trans and get a 1.4t from a wrecking yard, it won't be plug and play obviously but it's realistic with minor fabrication

much more annoying will be getting the ECU to play nice

Fucking buy the Mazda. It's pretty well established already the Mazda is the fucking all around better car.

You people with your fucking italian shitposting are becoming annoying.

Standalone, and wire it into the main module, time consuming and the standalone isn't cheap, but we knew this going in, I said it wasn't impossible I never said it would be cheap

but they want the tractor idle sound, old transmission, and turbo lag. can't argue with that logic

Legitimately considering selling my Boxster for one. Any 986 owner want a black hardtop?

You cannot be just retarded. You have to be advanced retarded.

I enjoyed it for the last 5 years but at the end of the day it's just a 20 year old 986

Retards that like the Mazda will talk shit despite it being the better car and not looking ugly as hell.

Other than that I'd say go for it.

It's a Porsche. What does the age mean?

By your logic a 964 911 is shit.

I'd punch you in the face if you happened to be right next to me right now.

Fucking Porsche fanboys lmao

Theres a literal consensus in the automotive world about the Mazda being better.

>calls others retards

You people...

I could answer seriously and say that it has nothing to do with with being a fanboy but much more as even considering to compare a Porsche to a fucking joke of a Fiat.

But in the end, judging by your answer, you'd be to stupid to comprehend anything past two lines.

well save for the Italian fans and the contrarians

yeah, same with that joke of a Giulia

>Marchione wanted at least 170.000 cars sold

>hasn't even sold 90000

>critics are rampant about problems, electrical, mechanical, interiors you name it

>the engine offers are a joke for the interior market

Yet you come on Veeky Forums and the fucktards like mjet still ravage about it.

Calm down it's the slowest Boxster ever made. A water cooled turd most people would call it

Still better than a Fiat.

It's really not, unless you're a soyboy or a homo.

I'm not even the guy that owns it. But acting like old Porsches are something special (especially the fucking 986) is laughable.

Get a trip so I can filter you

So you guys can stop telling me
>dude get the Miata
Here you go

what country is this? I got my ND for $25K US

Being Canadian is suffering

Just for lols
>Mustang GT
>39k
>Miata RF
>41k
Thanks Mazda

Soyboy

It's weird because the 100k USD LC500 only costs us like 80k USD

Would rather take a Miata but would prefer to not own either.

import routes usually. I'd bet the Fiata goes through the US before Canada and then LC500 is straight from nippon

Gayer than a miata considering there's now an RF model

You can get a 15-20 year old 986 for like 10k and it'll have more hp (and hp to weight ratio) than heavily modified, turbo-turd fiata. Not to mention better suspension.

>200hp
>2800lbs
How would that give you a better power to weight ratio than
>200hp with a mild tune
>2400lbs

18 year old Boxster S is 250 hp stock

stock fiata costs more, then you'll dump 3-5k on suspension just to match Boxster's, and another few grand just to reach 200 hp. Good luck selling your car afterwards.

The 124 Abarth has great suspension though, it doesn't need replacement.

200whp is probably around 230-240 hp with rwd and a manual. For a few thousand you will be making 260whp with a turbo upgrade. Boxster can't compete.

Only one of the two cars breaks gearboxes though, it also happens to be the slower of the two which does.

>better suspension
Yeah gonna need some sauce on that

>turbo 1.4 to match the power of an NA 2.0
Why didn't they just turbo the 2.0 and make an all around faster car that would btfo basically anything else close to it?

Hardtop is coming soon (TM).

The hood isn't carbon fiber, but painted black to refr back to the original 124 Spider rallycars, which had a matte black hood to cut down glare. It's an option, and 95% of all user-orederd cars are coming without one. Pic related is the patrician choice.

It's not just made with parts from Mazda, it's made BY Mazda in Japan. The only thing FCA is the 1.4T which is dead reliable, even with a tune. it even comes with the more reliable NC gearbox, which isn't made out of glass like early ND units.

Originally it would have been an Alfa (pic related), but then Marchionne stated that all Alfa's should be made in Italy, which Mazda of course would not accept. Also, this would have had a 1.75T, making it significantly more powerful than the ND, and I don't think mazda would have accepted that either. It could have been good competition for the 4C, Cayman and A110 with ~250hp.

>stock powerband is really awful, all peak with no build or top end.
Lolno. The 124's powerband is literally twice as long as the 2.0 ND. It appears sluggish by comparison because the ND has no torque and no powerband, and you have to wring it out. In practise, it's faster even without a tune.

>It's pretty well established already the Mazda is the fucking all around better car.

>More power
>More torque
>More gains
>More powerband
>Faster
>Looks better
>The turbo Miata everybody was asking for
The 124 is the hero you don't deserve.

>Theres a literal consensus in the automotive world about the Mazda being better.
No.
jalopnik.com/the-2017-fiat-124-spider-really-is-better-than-the-miat-1781392740

>inb4 >Jalopnik

And yet the Giulia wins prizes all over for handling, chassis balance and the QV's engine. It's only a joke in terms of sales and reliability, but that's par for the course for any Alfa.

Because they would have been better off putting a 300+hp 2.3 DISI turbo in there if they wanted to dominate.

it's not like m3/m5 wont be riddled with issues it's just that alfa handles better and is quicker

>Because they would have been better off putting a 300+hp 2.3 DISI turbo in there if they wanted to dominate.
That would be on a whole nother price point tho.

The ND starts at 25K MSRP, add a 7K crate motor to that and you're at 32K, add some suspension, gearbox and brake bits and you're probably somewhere around 40K. Porsche would shit themselves over that kind of numbers. Ford sells a 310hp 2.3 Totally-not-a-DISI-turbo crate motor for 7K, so i think it's not unreasonable to say that a 2.3 turbo ND from the factory could be built for 40K.

i'm talking about feel though, torque curve
the ND's is very linear
the 124's is one giant peak

> the 124's is one giant peak

You know where else there's a peak? Down in my pants when I drive a 20 year old boxster S, that cost 8k and I don't need to rice/turbo/shit nothing on it.

Accept your forgetting costs of production into that and the fact Mazda would like to make some money off of it, probably more like $48k/unit

>no hardtop coupe

It's coming this year.

I'm in fucking Italy and the 124 costs 2K more than the ND (base trims). No wonder nobody buys it here.

>207whp/214wtrq
it should have had that from the the factory hell it should have had 300+

I added 8K for all the other bits you need for production. The 2.3 crate motor has an MSRP of 7K but can be had for 6K if you shop around, and that's already got a profit margin for the factory included in it. Lastly, Mazda already has a margin on the 25K base Miata, and not installing all of the regular parts saves money, too.

Even then, it'd be a good value proposition at ~325hp, 1100kg and 45K USD.

say who? some faggot ass website no one ever heard of? not a single other reputable car news source has mentioned it.

You make some good points, but there's no way in hell they would supply Mazda with an engine they know would turn their little Miata into a firebreathing monster capable of embarrassing even a GT350R

You do realise that the 2.3 Ecoboost is a direct descendant of the 2.3 DISI Turbo made by Mazda, right? Same base block, same bore and stroke, same pretty much everything, except their state of tune. Remember the Mazdaspeed 3? It was basically a Focus RS in drag with a 2.3 DISI. The Focus RS meanwhile had a 2.5L I5 turbo Duratec (TM) - which was a Volvo B5254 with a different engine cover, basically.

Mazda doesn't need Ford to build them the engines when it's their own engine.

Source? And how much will it be? Close to 40k for an Abarth I bet.

At that point, I would rather buy something else, like a gently used Cayman

source is some no name website.

They look great.

Except that the MZR turbo is no longer in production, and the current 2.5 T in the CX-9 is based off the Duratec 25
My point is that IF Mazda would consider putting a 2.3 turbo motor, IN A LONGITUDINAL PLATFORM, they would have to request the Ecoboost 2.3 in order to make it work, it's not economically feasible to put the MZR back into production when they're focus since 2012 has been efficiency

anti glare hood
or at least it should be mat black

>and the current 2.5 T in the CX-9 is based off the Duratec 25
No, the Skyactiv-G 2.5 is a developement of the 2.5 L-series or L5. The L5 was also used by Ford as a Duratec 2.5, true, but the Duratec name is not a step in it's development cycle.

The Skyactiv series is a continued development of the Mazda L and Z series. Since the 2.3 DISI, as a part of the L series, was easily adapted to longitudinal layout in the Mustang, I have no doubt that a 2.5T Skyactiv would also be as easily adapted into the Miata. It is, after all an uplifted L series.

Also, look at how easily Fiat converted the 1.4T to longitudinal layout. Unlike Mazda/Ford, they had never done that before.

Is the mustang better than the miata though

Stang certainly requires a neck with more defined hue of red color

You're not getting a Boxster S for $10k

I don't think either of them is "better." They're both very good, but take nearly opposite approaches. I'd like to drive both back to back to see which experience I like more.

You know both the Boxster and Fiata use OE spec Bilstein shocks, right? Only difference is the Fiata's shocks are all new instead of 20 years old

well the mustang is certainly faster

> You're not getting a Boxster S for $10k

autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Used Cars/Porsche/Boxster?listingTypes=used&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=BOXSTE&makeCodeList=POR&trimCodeList=BOXSTE|S&searchRadius=0

It's not just shocks, its steering, weight distribution and frankly engineering.

Would take the cars in this order
Cayman>Boxster>Miata>Fiat

>1999 Boxster S
Doesn't exist, Boxster S was introduced in 2000
>3.5L engine
Again wrong, god damn 911s at the time only had 3.4L engines
That's one scummy dealership

You really don't know anything about Boxsters, do you?

If you're so smart, go correct the wiki page -- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Boxster/Cayman#Boxster_986_model_history

and it's 3.2L @ 250HP

and you still think an 18 year old car is going to be in amazing condition and has suffered no wear and tear? I wanna know what you're smoking

>he think production year is the same as the model year

Want a new car? Go buy a new car. All i'm arguing is for the same $$$, you get a better roadster by buying used boxster than a new fiata.

If 20 year old Boxsters are so much better than new Fiata then why is this guy trading his in? Fucking bus riders I swear

No clue. But he'll probably want the boxster back after spending 1-2 years with fiata.

What makes you think that? Have you lived with both cars for several years?
Of course not, you've been riding the bust the entire time

Yea your moms bust, the entire time!

Just think about the costs/engineering efforts involved into design and production of both cars. Is Fiata great? Damn right, it's an awesome roadsters, way more fun than a corola for daily.

Boxster is just a higher class of a roadster and no fiata can touch that.

Maybe a new one, but not one from 20 years ago
Why is this so hard for you to understand?

So well engineered that Porsche has a class action lawsuit against them because those engine kept grenading themselves without warning

he might want to swap the fiata in for a 981 once they can be had at a lower price, but going back to a 986 or 987.1? nah.

Stop talking sense

Have you lived with either car?

Answer the question

That makes sense if fiata is kept stock. Doubt you get a good trade for a molested one

>Boxster is just a higher class of a roadster and no fiata can touch that.
and where's that higher class?
maybe the engine? oh wait, ims
in the suspension? fiata uses way more superior multilink front and rear compared to macphersons on porsche

I'm a different user turning your question around on you since you seem to place value on the fact that his being able to make an argument depends on having spent time with both.
In short, I'm assuming you haven't and so your argument is invalid if his is.

One doesn't have to taste shit to know shit.

I've driven and compared 124 and ND extensively and neither strike me as superior to a well maintained 986. But to each his own, I also like to work/maintain my own cars.

We're talking Fiat and Porsche here, wake up user. Fiat isn't known to be a high tier manufacturer in any sense.

Good thing it's actually a Mazda