Looking for a truck. First time truck buyer. I want to get something nice that can tow a track car and seat my family...

Already got the girl and I'm comfortable with my cock size. Thanks for trying.

TFL truck did the tow test with the 3.6 Coloranyon and it was screaming at 5000rpm the whole time. Towing a car would be pushing it especially if you live somewhere with hills or mountains. The diesel isn't much better. Just get a Silverado 4.3 or 5.3.

youtube.com/watch?v=BqcYm4_80Vg

The 2.8 duramax? I've heard it's the exact opposite of bullet proof and easy to work on.

pre-2003 ford f250 and 350

Gotcha. Thanks for the review. So the new duramax is shit? It is the old duramax in the 2004-2009 years that I was told I wanted because they just keep on going and have solid towing numbers without no problems.

Look into the Silverado. The crew cabs get knocked down to about what you will pay for a V6 Canyon.

a truck capable of decent towing+seating your family + tow a car its going to rape the fuck out of a V6, not to mention the eem pee gees will be about the same as a V8

I'll take a look. Thanks.

Get a 6.2 Chevy truck. put a cam in it and get rid of the dod. Have it tuned and run it on 93. It'll be golden. get like a 2015

nissan frontier

>The 2.8 duramax? I've heard it's the exact opposite of bullet proof and easy to work on.
Where did you hear that?

>The diesel isn't much better
>bounces between 2500-3500rpm under WOT
Doesn't sound bad to me Desu.

Seems like a lot of work for someone who isn't buying a truck to pose in front of other trucks in front of Black Bear Diner.

Random reviews and forum posts. A lot of DEF/DPF and limp mode issues. Those are lemon cases though. I'm sure a lot are fine but I don't want to risk dealing with those issues in the middle of nowhere. It's an Italian motor so yeah.

The engine bay is cramped even with the 4cyl gas engine. It's really tight with a V6 or diesel.

Even small diesels shouldn't really be at 3500 continuously. It's still stressing the poor engine.

K, recommendations?

Looking at these rigs, they seem to be quite old and dated. Also not fond of the MAYBE 12 mpg factor. I know it isn't a huge concern but that just seems low to me.

I too would like to know, because they come highly recommended by many of the mechanics I was bouncing around at the dealerships. Non-GMC dealerships.

This. I want something reliable and ready to use out of the box.

im going to say it again. Nissan frontier

>It's an Italian motor so yeah.
It's an industrially derived Italian diesel with wet liners, 6 stud heads that's mechanically as tough as any other light vehicle diesel. They're still straight forward to work on.
>Even small diesels shouldn't really be at 3500 continuously. It's still stressing the poor engine.
That is bullshit. Unless there's some kind of manufacturing fault, a small diesel will sing at 3500rpm all day, every day. RPM doesn't kill diesels prematurely, over fueling and lugging at lower engine speeds (which creates excessive cylinder heat) is what kills diesels.

The fact that it's running at full power is not good. You want/need headroom when towing or you'll overheat regardless of the rippems.

They are good out of the box. Just having a cam installed makes things better!

A tune is good and running 93 gas is going to be good for whatever you get.

post your local craigslist.

>old and dated
a truck is a tool so as long as it works it's fine. besides, even if it breaks it's cheaper than a new piece of shit. cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, done depreciating. it's one of the best trucks ever made.

>The fact that it's running at full power is not good
Again, bullshit. This is only true if the engine's been tuned to an unsustainable fuel rate and boost level. If your EGTs aren't hotter than they should be, or designed to be, a diesel will run at full power indefinitely for as long as the cooling capacity will allow.
>I too would like to know, because they come highly recommended by many of the mechanics I was bouncing around at the dealerships.
They're a tough motor, and the biggest shortcoming as the other user pointed out CAN be emmisions system failure, like DPF fouling. But that all comes back to the way it's driven and maintained. Basically, if you do a lot of short trips around the corner where the engine barely gets up to operating temperature, you'll foul a DPF in no time, and probably glaze cylinders sooner than desired. This is a scenario where a gasser would be a better option.
If however most of your driving averages trips of at least 20 mins (the odd short trip isn't going to harm it), stick to the maintenance log book, get the workshop to force the odd DPF burn and use quality oil of recommended viscosity, you'll enjoy a longer engine life than any gasser can provide at a similar duty cycle.
>tl,dr;
If you want a pickup that mainly does duty as a commuter, the fuss free nature of a gas V6 is probably a better bet.

>a diesel will run at full power indefinitely for as long as the cooling capacity will allow.

Yeah that's why our 3l canters are dead at less than 200k kms.

drove my 4.3 silverado new off the lot in 2010. still drive it every day, done every single thing ive wanted a truck to do.

strange, our 2.8 and 3L Canters (4M4x and 4P10) are racking up over 500,000km. It's the fleet operaters that trash the cabs are the only issue with them. What are you doing to yours to kill them prematurely?

I'll also add, the 4P10 is also a rebadged Italian engine too :)

Just find an old 12 valve, like a man would do.

Running them at full power pretty much 100% of the time in modern north american traffic. It's not like in europe where it's perpetual traffic jams. The things would just scream down the highway at 3500 and would crawl up small hills at 80km/h on a good day.

The Colorado diesel is a lemon...let them work the bugs out for a few years

If you are going to tow a track car and take your family around occasionally I would look at a 1500 or preferably 2500 series truck. Get as big an engine as possible or a diesel if possible. If you don't drive it much why does the mpg matter? Also, towing up a hill with a freaking v6 is going to suck. Our f150 4.6 triton v8 is screaming just to get out of its own way up a hill. Let alone towing anything.
Imo just get a big engine if you don't drive it much. Or realize that you won't get good mpg's unless you get something light or modern.

How set are you on buying a GMC? I've driven just about every full size pick up for work, and I'm particularly fond of the Ram 1500. Crew cabs have tons of room, using them as work trucks we could sit 5 grown men inside comfortably.
I even rented one to drive up north back in the spring and it was just a really good ride. I'm looking into buying a new 2017 Ram 1500 with the 5.7 hemi since the dealerships nearby are having a massive blow out event with $14k off to make room for this years stock. Will end up using it to tow my jeep up north so I don't have to worry about breaking it and figuring out how to get home.

And what are you breaking on them? What are you hauling with them?
I'm in Aus, and we use them as 4x4 tippers that frequent offroad and free way miles.
Only design flaw with Canter powerplants is the tendency to melt a cylinder head on the older 2.8 IDI if you overheat it.

Bring your family to the dealership, these trucks are smaller inside than their styling would have you believe.

The 3.6 is currently the best midsize truck gas engine, and the 2.8 is the best midsize truck motor period (unless you want speed over all else). Yes, it will work harder if you max it's tow rating out than a larger truck with more power pulling the same load, but unless you look at a full size, these are the most capable and most powerful trucks in the category. They are considered to be more reliable than the Toyota or Nissan by Consumer Reports and other industry analysts.

Do consider a full size truck, they are more capable and only a little less economical, but the size difference also makes them a little less convenient when you don't need the size and capability. Used trucks hold their value very well, with incentives, it might make more economic sense to new.

Used diesel trucks in the US are something you buy for capability and because you are a diesel enthusiast, they are not more economical than gas trucks unless you are almost always heavy hauling or doing long runs at freeway speeds. They can be slightly cheaper to fuel but the more expensive maintenance and their other consumable costs (DEF) more than eat the fuel savings.

The higher resale of diesel trucks can often repair the cost benefit relationship for a new truck however.

Blown headgasket, blown turbo, fatal tranny issue. Loaded up with maybe 5000lbs of appliances but even empty they're gutless pigs. Moving 10k lbs with 160hp doesn't work in North America. It's probably different in flat Australia. That's why you guys can also get away with road trains and shit.

Don't even know what you are talking about, but the "man" comment tells me it is a fanboy truck.

Thanks, sounds like my original pick is the truck I am looking for then.

The 1500's jump all the way to $55k. And all I get with that is an extra 1200 pounds of towing and almost half the fuel economy. I can't justify that price difference for a raised towing cap I'll probably not reach anyway. It will likely be driven daily. I also have a business I need to start hauling things around with. I pay for a service currently, but doing it myself would also save some money. I didn't mention that since I didn't think about it till now.

I will never buy a Dodge. Not going to get into an argument, so I'll just leave it at that. Not trying to be rude, thanks for the suggestion.

>The 1500's jump all the way to $55k.

Yeah so will a Colorado or Canyon. Do you really need 5 chrome packages? You can get a decently loaded silverado 5.3 for under 40.

I was picking the engine I was told to get. Couldn't care less about chrome. But it comes with the engine regardless and that was as cheap as I could get it with the crew cab and long bed. I'll recheck with the 5.3. Is that going to be the same towing/hauling as the 2.8 with the Canyon/Colorado?

Yeah you gotta pay for the 6.2. Nice to have but the 5.3 will be more than sufficient. The 5.3 is going to tow more and more comfortably than the 2.8.

Ah, I see the issue. I was also picking 4WD because I intend to go up in the hills to do Christmas tree cutting. The Canyon/Colorado still beat the price with the 5.3.

Lol, populated Australia is about as flat as North America, which is a lot in some places, and not very in others. Roadtrains especially aren't limited to flat ground.
Honestly sounds like the operator's working your equipment are even more ham fisted than ours. Granted, the older 2.8s are gutless pigs, but provided you're not afraid of a gearbox they still get the job done, but slowly. If your guys are breaking V5M31 gearboxes though, they must be a special kind of retard.
This is completely irrelevant though as this subject is about the far greater advanced Duramax/VMM that's got almost twice the output and more than adequate for towing a single car trailer.
The Colorado engine's been in service for almost 2 decades.

On their website it looked like you could get 1500's for less than 55k.
Imo if the canyon fits your towing needs then get it. Since you are driving it daily you want it comfy.
On a sidenote, I didn't realize that the only competitors in this size range are the frontier and taco. I would pick the gmc over either.
The key really is the towing you will be doing in relation to everything else.

They're still priced pretty close to the point where you might as well just go for the bigger truck unless you really want a small truck.

NA spec canters are rarely manual. They're some Duodonic automated manual bullshit which might be the worst transmission ever created.

But even with a Colorado you don't want to have chads constantly passing you while towing with their v8's and big diesels. You need a little more than "adequate" here.

Gotcha, thanks. Yea, just the car, some tools and tires in the back of the truck, plus family.

How much does your car transporter trailer weight loaded?

Car is ~3000, trailer is ~1000. Tools in the back weigh less than 300 pounds.

Hey OP

Go find yourself a used 2010+ Ram 2500-3500 with the 6.7 cummins. They have the best diesel fuel economy in their class and are perfect for pulling a trailer. They also are the most reliable and give the fewest problems among their class. If you want something smaller get an F-150 with the V8. Anything smaller will struggle to pull a trailer with a car and equipment.

All this advice is coming from an experienced automotive service technician at a local GM dealership.

The Canyorado is definitely enough truck for the load. If it's enough truck for your human cargo, it should meet your needs. You just need to see how you like it as a driver.

see
>I will never buy a Dodge.

Will do thanks.

Get a 5.3. Decent mpg, able to tow things, and stout/reliable

It's obvious they don't work at a Ram/FCA dealer or an independent if ythey endorse Ram reliability, lol.

For curiostiy's sake do you mind elaborating? I don't hope to change your mind I'd just like to know why.

Also if not a dodge then the 6.7 powerstrokes froma bout 2013 and up are pretty good too. Just don't buy a duramax unless you like having your truck in the shop all the time.

All this is considering you are looking for a 2500 or 3500 size truck. Honestly if I was going to do any type of towing I wouldnt go smaller than a half ton(1500 or F-150), The smaller engines in the smaller trucks don;t pull as good and the transmissions don't last as long as the ones in the half ton and above.

>They also are the most reliable and give the fewest problems among their class.

Yeah for the first 4 years until they disintegrate around the engine. Fords are the same but the whole thing is done at 4 years. Good luck finding one that hasn't been been used as a work truck and beat to shit or lifted and beat to shit.

Get the 6.2 It is a torque monster

you are right about pretty much all of Dodge's trucks up until the 4th gen Ram. I have been in all of them and I can honestly say all the "big three" manufacturers have come incredibly close in build quality.

Where do you get your memery? Since Dodge stopped selling the 5.9, the Duramax has been the most reliable and cheapest to operate of the HD pickup diesels. There's a reason they have the best resale in the industry.

I get my memery from the fact that duramaxes come into the shop on a regular basis with fuel system problems meanwhile our sister dealerships(owned by the same company) that sell fords and dodges don't have nearly the same amount of problems. I will admit they have come a long way in the past few years butt they still have trouble with their piezoelectric fuel injectors.

I have driven, owned, and rented a few different Dodge/RAM vehicles, including some work related stuff. I've never liked they way any Dodge vehicle drove, car or truck. Every time I do work on one of them, for example, changing the transmission fluid on a Durango blew the PCM somehow. Then, I changed out the PCM and the turn signals didn't work right. Couldn't find the bug so I cycled the power and then the brake lights went on when you pressed the radio buttons. This is just one example from one car. I also hear nothing bad complaints from Dodge owners about how much time they HAVE to spend under their hood, rather than WANT to spend. Interiors are always cheap no matter how expensive the car. Ergonomics never seem to fit me, either.

Just not a fan of Dodge.

Ford, Chevy, and Toyota all have pretty similar durability. Dodge is as good as they've ever been (for gas motors and the chassis, their diesels peaked with the 5.9), but there are three distinct tiers in full size pickups, Ford, GM, Toyota are best, Ram is distinct, but still acceptable second tier,and Nissan is irredeemable trash (Seriously, the Car and Driver 40,000 mile review score for the Nissan XD that shill keeps posting was F)

Yeah a nice interior and ride is nice but monthly ball joint and transmission replacements aren't.

Great, but that's the opposite of my experience with the big 3's one ton trucks as a fleet buyer.

The Duramax is the cheapest to run with the least downtime and the highest residual value.

Fair enough.

the thing that really killed the 6.7 cummins is emissions controls. once emissions are deleted, if that is legal in your state, the cummins tops out in reliability. THis does however void your warranty.

I will give it to you its hard to beat the allison transmission.

I can only speak from my personal experience, and that means I advise against the GM product.

Have you checked out any of the "Japanese" midsized truckos?

lol op wants to tow.

Yea, had to pass.

as previously stated one should stay away from the Nissan Titan XD. Id stay away from the titan in general just because its fucking ugly but to each their own. The Tundra however I do think is worth looking at, and if you want a smaller truck tacomas are the best on the market.

When the 6.7 first came out, Cummins was so pissed at Dodge that they would honor your power train warranty if you test piped the truck. They still weren't bulletproof, and frankly I'm fucking done with emissions deletes as a crutch for shifty OEM calibration and intergration.

The GM truck also has the best transmission and is right up there with the Ford for electrical reliability and interior durablity. The last Ram that was discounted enough to get me to buy one to see if they'd made any pregress was a '16, it's now a year and a half old and has had more downtime than my 3 year old Chevies. Yes it's better than anything was prior to 2010, but they just can't sell them cheap enough to make the numbers work.

Since the introduction of the 6.7 Powestroke, Fords have been good enough that they can make the numbers right too, but the DMax is the core of my HD pickup fleet.

The Tacoma is less reliable, in V6 guise and the Frontier and Ridgeline are far less capable. That's all we get right now in the US, the Canyorado twins, the Tacoma, Ridgeline, and the Frontier.

Ford is going to bring back the Ranger, but the only engine they're going to offer is a 2 liter turbo gasser..

I'm sure the single engine option will only last for a year, maybe two. If the truck seems like it can compete ford will surely figure out a way to put their 3.5L V6 in it.

This. Duramax 6.6 is top of the heap these days. It's only the early LLY that had fuel injection issues.

Well, OP is specifically looking at a GMC badged LWB Isuzu.

>3.5 ranger
If you mean the 3.5 EB, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell.
If you mean the 3.5 Cyclone, that's been canceled in favor of a 3.3, and I still find the 3.3 to be unlikely. If they bring in a second motor the 2.7 EB, but even that is doubtful because it would slot in below the 4 cyl EB motor, much like the discontinued V6 Mustang.

Also I was wrong about the 4 cyl motor, it's the 2.3, not the 2.0.

The 2.7 liter EB V6 is the most likely second motor, but I don't think that's too likely. Maybe if they can federalized the 4 cyl diesel it gets in Ausland that might happen, but that's doubtful as well.

I am with this guy.

The Silverado 4.3 is more than adequate for towing duties but I am wary of there being no factory trans cooler available for it... but it is rated and tested to do well with what you're thinking... It's probably the way I'd go if not a diesel canyon/Colorado. The 3.6 LFX is a fine engine, it just will be spinning fast in your scenario. I have no doubts about it's durability, just wouldn't be my first choice given the output curve, the gearing, and my desire to not be constantly moving iin and out of the > above 3k rpm range

woah woah, where the fuck do you live?

Buy a wagon

get a tacoma, has one of the best resale values of any car anywhere. You can rack a fucking 100k on that thing in 3 years and still get 70% of your purchase price

>has one of the best resale values of any car anywhere.

Does that matter when your paying $50k for 260hp and drum brakes and an extra $20k over a domestic truck?

the 3.5 EB is available in the Explorer, why wouldn't they offer it in the ranger? of course it would be a detuned version of the f-150 engine but i don't see why they wouldn't.

yessirr

you're definitely spending more out of the gate but your net worth asset wise will be higher. I mean just hop on clist I have no fucking idea why but they just don't lose any value.

Any of you guys ever just sit in your truck

Ford Transit ECOBOOST with a side awning

Which wagon?

The Canyorado, Silverado, and F150 are within 10% of the resale of the Tacoma. Resale is not the massive advantage for Toyota it was 10 years ago, and definitely not enough of an advantage to make up for the fact that the V6 Tacoma is now the least reliable midsize truck.

Toyota Tax is a thing on old trucks, but it's morphed into Truck Tax in recent years.

Because the Ranger isn't related to the Explorer, and Ford is paranoid about maintaining their sales title and isn't about to undercut the F150.