What are some interesting historical facts about Bulgaria? It seems like a rather irrelevant yet curious place

Áctually it ended up on the winning side in the second war.

Because the red army was there and a coup happened

The nazis would have granted bulg all the land bulg fought this war for. Ofc it was a loss.

No, they would've capitulated it to the Ottomans. for a further 500 years.

turks were not german ally during ww2

So is Old Church Slavonic. A language that after their Christianization became official in Russia, the idea was to unify the local dialects.
Russians speak a version of old Bulgarian and use the alphabet invented there.

Bulgaria influenced and helped Russia, anglos inspired in a similar way fucking burgerland.

no they used ruthenian, ocs was more of a liturgical thing

t. a person who hasn't looked at the languages

nah, they spoke polish because they were catholics

Dialectal differentiation accelerated after the breakup of Kievan Rus' in approximately 1100. On the territories of modern Belarus and Ukraine emerged Ruthenian and in modern Russia medieval Russian. They became distinct since the 13th century, i.e. following the division of that land between the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Poland and Hungary in the west and independent Novgorod and Pskov feudal republics plus numerous small duchies (which came to be vassals of the Tatars) in the east.

The official language in Moscow and Novgorod, and later, in the growing Muscovy, was Church Slavonic, which evolved from Old Church Slavonic and remained the literary language for centuries, until the Petrine age, when its usage became limited to biblical and liturgical texts. Russian developed under a strong influence of Church Slavonic until the close of the 17th century; afterward the influence reversed, leading to corruption of liturgical texts.

The political reforms of Peter the Great (Пётp Beли́кий, Pyótr Velíkiy) were accompanied by a reform of the alphabet, and achieved their goal of secularization and Westernization. Blocks of specialized vocabulary were adopted from the languages of Western Europe. By 1800, a significant portion of the gentry spoke French daily, and German sometimes. Many Russian novels of the 19th century, e.g. Leo Tolstoy's (Лeв Toлcтóй) War and Peace, contain entire paragraphs and even pages in French with no translation given, with an assumption that educated readers would not need one.

I think that's what it's actually called now. It's one of those budget locations teens go to to fuck after they're done with high school in europe.

Bulgarians have no clue about their history.

They say their kings were called khans, even though there is zero proof to support this, and plenty to support them being called knjaz su bigi (prince appointed by God).
They say their people came from Iran, even though they are most likely some mix of thracians who retreated north after the romans invaded, only to come back south later. This much better explains why these so called nomads were able to build big stone cities and temples within a year of settling down, why they had so much modern armor and weapons, and why they were so easily accepted and welcomed by the locals, instead of being repulses and hated like every other invader in the history of the place.
They insist that their ethnicity or race is slavic, even though thats a linguistic group, not a genetic cluster, and there is little in common genetically between poles, serbs, russians and bulgarians. The slavs are more diverse genetically than the germanics or the enblish.
They insist that they were betrayed in the Balkan War, even though the whole chain of about a dozen backstabs by everyone against everyone started when Bulgaria refused to give Romania the fortress of SIlistra, which was promised (by the russian tzar) as price for their neutrality in the attack against Ottoman Turkey.
They insist that they didn't kill jews in WWII, even though only bulgarian citizen jews were spared, and the greek, macedonian and serbian jews in occupied territories were effectively sold to the germans as slaves.
They will repeat over and over that the first airborn bombing mission was performed by bulgarians against turkish, despite overwhelming evidence that this isn't so.
They still believe in russian brotherhood, despite Russia not intervening in the second Balkan war, Russia invading Bulgaria twice, in both world wars, Russia taking away all bulgarian gold "for safe keeping" during communist period and modern day provocations.

Slynchev Bryag, maps started translating it to its literal meaning Sunny Beach after it became a british colony.
The more brits go there, the fewer locals want to, and over the last decade it became an exclusively anglo city sized whorehouse.

They (correctly) consider Macedonians as Bulgarians and they want them to be part of Bulgaria. Macedonians however think that they are actually descendents of Alexander the Great and his people and get very butthurt when someone denies this fact. But they still like Bulgaria and remember fondly to the time when they temporarily became part of it during ww2.

The Balkans are weird.

There was a majority of bulgarians in the territory today called FYROM before the Balkan wars.
After the wars they all immigrated to Bulgaria, because they saw they won't be annexed, and they fought against the serbs, who would now rule them.
This huge influx of refugees ensured the bulgarian economy was garbage, forcing them to join WWI in an attempt to get back on track, and basically created the urban sprawling city of Sofia, where all the macedonian bulgarians settled, doubling its size.
Today bulgarians are a minority in FYROM, and not even the biggest minority. Albania has a better claim if you look at MUH PEOPLE and MUH NATION UNITED, since their minority is by far the largest.

>modern day provocations?

Do I detect a pro NATO shill?

>and not even the biggest minority. Albania has a better claim
Not if you consider Macedonians as a subset of Bulgarians.

>Today bulgarians are a minority in FYROM
you mean macedonians that still consider themselves bulgarian are a minority

maceodian as a national identity did not exist 70 years ago, now it does

it's how it goes, but saying albanians have a claim is ridiculous

macedonia is still majority slav, it's not kosov

Bulgarian as a national identity didn't exist until the 17th century.
You will notice nationalities are not physical constructs, they are social and cultural ones, and are created.
One being created later than another doesn't make it less valid. They both have the same value.

it didn't exist in a very organized way, it as language and culture and all that, that's true, but after nationalism happened it was quite clear who was who
>One being created later than another doesn't make it less valid. They both have the same value.
true, i said that in my post too - "it's how it goes"

Balkans, Balkaria, Bulgaria is named after ancient city of Balkh
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Balhara

Volga Bulgaria or Bulga Bulga relocated to present location from Volga

Volga Bulgarians along with Gagauz Turks settled in the Balkans

Romanians used to speak a Bulgarian dialect

Romanian language was Southern Slavic, even though such influence has been artificially reduced in the later 19th century c.e. by the so-called "re-Latinization" of Romanian ‒ actually, it must be properly referred to as "Latinization", because it was not a return to a previous situation but the introduction of new foreign elements to reform the language. It was also within this process that the former national name was changed from Vlah to Român. The original Romanian alphabet, that was Cyrillic until 1868 c.e., was replaced by the Latin alphabet, to which some additional characters (not existing in any other Neo-Latin language) were added in order to represent the phonemic elements that previously were satisfactorily supplied by the Cyrillic characters. Through this process of Latinization, the percentage of Slavic terms in Romanian had been halved. Nevertheless, there are still many Slavic words and other linguistic features that attest the long sojourn of the Vlach/Romanians in the Slavic territories south of the lower Danube, mainly in Bulgaria.

>be settled people who built with stones and have huge furnaces
>go on a 500 year huge journey throughout the world for no reason, drastically changing culture
>nobody remembers or references this nation on the move
>settle down in the other end of the world and quickly remember our castle and temple building and steel making knowledge from a dozen generations ago

Unlikely.

>Does anyone know why they gave up that little bit of the North Danube to Romania?

Russia gave it as part of the treaty to pass through Romania to attack the Ottomans.
Originally they were supposed to give them Moldavia (Moldova), but the tzar decided to keep that for himself, and gifted Dobrugea (which had ZERO romanians in it) instead.
Neither the bulgarians nor the romanians were very happy with the deal.

Still though, at the time the population of the area was largely turkish, as it was colonized to be a front line against Russia, and bulgarians couldn't be trusted not to rebel and join the russians, and were displaced from there.

That's simply not true. Please refrain from spreading such disinformation again.

It's true romanian language was influenced by slavon, but saying it was a slavic dialect is not true. Please compare old romanian texts (pre 19th century or even older) and compare them to slavic counterparts. They look and sound nothing similar - even if some slavic words were borrowed in romanian.

Bulgarians (Bolghars), Hungarians (Magyars) and Turks (Oghuz) were part of the Huns

The imagination this guy has!

east cost looks like a face

country looks like a pupper

I applaud you, my brat.

But what you gonna do, that's the result of decades of brainwashing in schools and everywhere else. An individual has to actually dig into history to see the propaganda they feed everyone. But that's alright, the other nation on the Balkans are equally retarded when it comes to historical myths. I try not to think too much on this, it just kinda depresses me.

>what is the Romanian–Bulgarian Empire

he is right u turds

b4 latinization, romanian was 80% slavic, it was like bulgarian

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian-Bulgarian_Empire

>latin language
>literally uses bulgarian grammar and vocab

I think you turd need to read better, something like this:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Romanian

Never knew bulgarian grammar and vocabulary is latin.

Lol. Stop making fools of yourselves. You can't "latinize" a language in a short time, like you pretend it was done in the 19th century. Romanian is a romance language with a slavic flavor. Not the other way around.

Here's the oldest preserved romanian text, from a letter written in 1521:

>Mudromu I plemenitomu, I cistitomu I B[o]gom darovannomu zupan Hanăș Begner ot Brașov mnog[o] zdravie ot Nécșul ot Dlugopole.
>I pak dau știre domnietale za lucrul turcilor, cum am auzit eu că împăratul au ieșit den Sofiia și aimintrea nu e. Și se-au dus în sus pre Dunăre.
>I pak să știi domniia-ta că au venit un om de la Nicopoe de mie mi-au spus că au văzut cu ochii lui că au trecut ceale corăbii ce știi și domniia-ta pre Dunăre în sus.
>I pak să știi că bagă den toate orașele câte 50 de oamini să fie în ajutor în corăbii.
>I pak să știi cumu se-au prins nește meșteri den Țarigrad cum vor treace aceale corabii la locul cela strimtul ce știi și domniia ta.
>I pak spui domnietale de lucrul lu Mahamet-Beg, cum am auzit de boiari ce sânt megiiaș(i) și de genere-miu Negre, cumu i-au dat împăratul slobozie lui Mahamet-Beg, pre io-i va fi voia pren Țeara Rumânească, iară el să treacă.
>I pak să știi domniia ta că are frică mare și Băsărab de acel lotru de Mahamet-Beg, mai vârtos de domniele voastre.
>I pak spui domnietale ca mai-marele miu de ce am înțeles și eu. Eu spui domnietale, iară domniia ta ești înțelept și aceaste cuvinte să ții domniiata la tine, să nu știe oamini mulți și domniele vostre să vă păziți cum știți mai bine.
>I B[og]i te ves[e]lit, Aminu.

Other than the formal introductory address and the ending - which yes, are slavic - almost all of this text is understandable to a modern Romanian audience. This is not more unreadable than Shakespeare is to the English. Now ask any Bulgarian guy if he can understand this text. He can't.

>with a slavic flavor.
a quite significant slavic flavor

Romanian and Bulgarian have very similar intonations and sound similar, even though they are two different linguistic groups.

The formal introductory address is literally Bulgarian though

I am not the guys you responded to, ofc Romanian is not made up or artificial, it's not even a question.

Still
Romanian remains unattested throughout the Middle Ages, and only enters the historical record in the early 16th century.

The guys literally used cyrillic alphabet for 3 centuries after that, but it was replaced later in the 19th century, for political reasons, imo.

The text you posted was actually written using the Cyrillic alphabet.

>The text you posted was actually written using the Cyrillic alphabet.
here is the letter, found it on wikipedia
The oldest surviving document in Romanian: Neacșu's Letter, a trader from Câmpulung, sent to the mayor of Brașov (1521)

Dlugopole is a the Bulgarian name of Campulung
BrasOV is imo also a Bulgarian sounding town name, could be wrong

Strong or weak, a flavor is a flavor. The guys before implied that Romanian was originally a slavic language which somehow got latinized and became a romance language - this is simply retarded.

80-90% of the words in that text, disregarding the introductory and ending formulas, are of Latin origin. Who could have artificially "latinized" the Romanian before 1521? There were no French or Italian rulers or settlers to enforce it, nor any other Latin speaking country around Wallachia.

Does the script matter when talking strictly about the language? Mongolian is also written in Cyrillic - does it make it a slavic language?

Sure, the Romanian people are way closer in culture to their slavic neighbours than to other romance language people. But I wasn't attacking that point.

>we wuz romanz n shit

FACT: Dacia province (modern Romania) to the north of the river was only for 165 years under Roman rule
>Romans officially abandoned Dacia under Emperor Aurelian (r. 270–275)
>Volokhi (Vlachs) seized "the territory of the Slavs"[121] and were later expelled by the Hungarians.[122] Therefore, the Slavs' presence antedates the arrival of the Volokhi in the chronicle's narration.

so Roman presence in Dacia (today Romania) was very short.

FACT: Roman presence in southern Balkans (Croatia, Serbia, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria) was much longer.

The Yugoslavian states were more Roman than Dacia. Around 5th-7th century, the territories of Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia became dominated by Slavs.

FACT: in 1800s, after more than 1000 years of Slavic language with Cyrillic alphabet, a period of latinization occurred to remove Slavic influence. To make Romanian a Latin language.

Latinization only occurred in Romania, not in the much more Roman territories of Yugoslavia. Slavs in other territories (Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria) could have reverted to Latin language, but did not.

Just making an absolutely friendly point Romania's history is tied to the Bulgarians, not just any ol' "slavs''.
There was obviously a minority of people speaking Romanian that grew, they slowly came to power after Ottomans came about.

Did they Latinize-yes. Did they remove Slavic influence - yes.

Guess what, that's how it goes in history, especially in that period.

Pannonian Romance
Istriot language
Dalmatian language

"Yugoslavs" were part of roman colonies and adopted latin, then got slav'd like romanians

romanians just switched to their previous occupiers

Look, I don't care about this. We could discuss all the theories all night long and we wouldn't get anywhere. I'm fine with accepting a migratory theory or whatever, if it suits you. I am not a wewuzist. I don't really care where do Romanians come from, but let's pretend I accept they moved from somewhere else and kicked someone's ass on current Romania's territory.

Now, I have posted before the text of Neacsu's letter, consisting of 80-90% latin words. A text almost fully comprehensible to Romanians today.

Now, tell me, is that language a Slavic language or a Latin language? It was written in 1521, way before the "intensive latinization" you pretend occured in 1800s. Just tell me: is it Slavic or Latin?

Where was Romanian before 1521.

They're massively russiaboo ever since Russia liberated them from the Ottoman Empire, and yet they fought against Russia in both World Wars.

fine with that
romanians need to differentiate and the best way is to occupy an exotic "latina" niche in the northern-slav-dominated sweaty tight anus industry of germania

to us germanic overlords it makes no difference when she moans in romanian or ukrainian

>but let's pretend I accept they moved from somewhere else and kicked someone's ass on current Romania's territory.
>someone

The someone that ruled the land before Romanians. I wonder who. Is it a Vlad, is it a Mircu Stari or some other voevod with a Roman name?

politics

Really makes you think why Romanians had to come up with Latin names for the settlements they lived in, as if someone else had lived there before and was getting displaced.

>as if someone else had lived there before and was getting displaced.

ayyyy

It's why we'll never have proper history on the Balkans.

Half the countries are somehow ancient Macedonian, or Greek or Roman or whatever.

Serbs, Croats, Bulgarians, Albanians have honest origins.

The rest is political games and wewuz.

>no one wewuzing phrygians/thracians/dacians

its all greco-roman dickriding

>once upon a time there were tribes
>then came Slavs who slaughtered the tribes (WE WUZ TRIBES AN SHIET)
>then came Turks who raped the slavs
That's all there is really.

nope thats conquest

the other thing is some politicians decide to take a country in a political direction by messing with the language and making fake nations, because it's viewed as profitable

when the bulgarians were strong and held wallachia, they use cyrillic and speak slavic

later they decide to switch course and westernize

it's all so simple

It's very hard to study history of Bulgaria, mainly because nobody is interested in it, apart from the people who live in it. The foreigners who have happened to write something about it, have done so because of close link it has with Byzantine history. That leaves us with local scholars, who have been raised to love their country and its history, a traditional upbringing in every Balkan country, who then go and study it. This inevitably causes problems when they try to be as objective as possible. It's very hard to be neutral when you study the history of the people who have lived where you live, especially with our upbringing. I've caught myself many times not taking into account all the facts, which is why I switched to the archaeology of the land in prehistoric times. I want to be independent in my studies of all the false ideas that have been nailed to me during one part of my life.

Бpaтe мoй, гopд cъм дa видя, чe имa и дpyги бългapи, кoитo cи знaят иcтинcкaтa иcтopия.

Reminder that Yugoslavia could have survived had Bulgaria became part of it and displaced Serbs from being the dominant peoples in SFRY.

тaкa e щoтo ocвeн EPE caмo ниe cмe пocтигнaли нeщo нa бaлкaнитe, и зaтoвa им e yгoднo дa пoвтapят, чe иcтopиятa нa бaлкaнитe нe мoжe дa ce изyчaвa oбeктивнo

дaли cмe кyлтypa нa пoлoвинaтa cлaвяни и нa бaлкaнитe и изoбщo, зaтoвa ни мpaзят, зaвиждaт и никoй нe ни cпoмeнaвa c yвaжeниe

oт кoмплeкcи зa мaлoцeннocт cьpбитe нacмaлкo кaтoлици дa cтaнaт и нa лaтиницa дa пpoпишaт oт яд, чe пoлoвинaтa им гpaдoвe cмe ги пocтpoили ниe, бeлгpaд включaя

hey, stop talking Romanian. this is an English board.

You forgot my favorite myth:

Cyril and Methodius created the Cyrillic.

I will when Romanians accept their people is 500 years old, instead of making up stories about Romans.

With this view you'll never be able to see the past clearly. The sad thing is you get all enthusiastic about things long gone and dead, events you have took no part in. There's just the burden that's been passed from generation to generation.

This board is fucking retarded

>see the past clearly.
They use our alphabet and have no clue it was used by us first and created by a guy in Ochrid, in Bulgaria at the time.

It's just disrespectful to deny the truth, we are the most disrespected people on the Balkans, and have always been, this is not a thing "long gone", it's the literal present.

No wonder there's a burden, telling us we are somehow equal to the serbs and even worse posers like the greeks and romanians that have to piggyback off of other people's achievements and history.

When I was in school, they taught us about the thracians, but it was just a people that lived there before we arrived, we didn't steal their heritage, nor their gold, but we learnt about it and knew they were something else.

I can't respect a person who, on purpose, calls me a "bugarin".

They literally took chunks of our land and nobody admits it and it's a fact. Just admit it and say, "Hey that's how it goes, you lost we won."- it has to be some bullshit story they make up, how it's morally justified, other than politics.

We will stay different, until they stop treating us differently.

The butthurt level in this post is off the scale.

>we didn't steal their heritage, nor their gold
There I mean the gold artifacts that were found the treasures that are displayed in museums, noone claims it's "ours" other than it was found on our soil, everyone knows it's the thracians, some other people made it.

But no, our southern neighbors the greeks have the gall to claim everything from ancient hellas through ERE until now.

ERE is all they can rightfully claim, because language != identity. ERE was roman, it wasn't greek.

Anyway.

>The butthurt level
If you aren't a turk, you have an irrelevant history compared to us

if you are from the Balkans, that is.

So where are you from?

Not from the Balkans. You're still butthurt tho.

>compared to us
Oh gee golly look how cool we used to be until those faggots around us starting fucking us. The fuck is wrong with you?

Moral has no place in politics. That's something you are failing to see because of your bias. Talking about 'our' lands as if other countries are obliged to gift Bulgaria lands where people speak or have once spoken Bulgarian is silly. The weak, shortsighted politics Bulgaria exercised in the 20th century has led to people in the present to believe their country, and therefore they themselves, are eternal victims.

This does not create bridges.

We were cool, until we messed up, it's how it happens in history.

Every neighbor still hates us though, because we actually had a cool period that was our own.

Except the Turks for some reason, maybe because they kicked our ass 1v1 and don't have a reason to feel inferior?

It's simple really.

If you use an alphabet to write a letter to your mom, that was invented by a people you were taught to hate from a very young age, you'd be confused too.

>because we actually had a cool period that was our own.

About 700 years ago. Let it go.

Nobody hates you because nobody gives a shit anymore in the Balkans, nor did anyone give a shit about you for the past 70 years. And if they do hate you it's not because you wuz kangz anyway, that's maybe the stupidest shit I've ever heard. You got persecution mania and a superiority complex.

Genocide your gypsies and impose a ban on chalga if you want to be great again.

Ofc, it's silly and that's not what I'm saying.

Just tell the truth, "We had better politics, we won, you lost, you're sad, we're happy" - instead of saying shit like Macedonians are Serbs or whatever even today.

I mean come on, our historians accept that a lot of the towns at the Black Sea were greek majority and we got them anyway.

So what clay do you want? Macedonia? Dobrudja? Thesalloniki? Turkish Thrace?

How many Serbs have you spoken to about their views on Macedonians? I don't think people even in Macedonia care and talk about Macedonians as much as people in Bulgaria do.

Nationalism is just a characteristic of a certain phase in the development of the human species. Think as an individual and don't be a hothead.

>About 700 years ago. Let it go.
Better than never.

Other than knowing about it, I have let it go.
We ARE disrespected though. In terms of revising history, which is a problem not because history is sacred or something, but because it erodes trust.
None at all. Neither of those places is majority Bulgarian today, and I wouldn't really "want" it even if it were necessarily.

Just the truth, so we can move on and really trust one another.
Macedonians are Macedonians today and nothing more or less, the point is nobody is really saying what they were 80 years ago and everybody gets mad at us for saying it in a history thread about Bulgaria.

I'd say you're pathetic but that does not cover it. At least you're not stupid.

>Yugoslavia could have survived if there were even more people opposing the Serbs there

Bulgaria was the most powerful nation in the balkans multiple times and frequently defeated byzantium, even killing emperor nikifor 1 genik. It was also the main slavic cultural center in the early medieval ages. In 732 Bulgar kKhan Tervel completely defeated the enxroaching rashidun khalifate and saved europe from early islamisation.
Bulgaria also suffered by far the most of all christian peoples under the ottoman empire. It didnt have its own millet, the population barwly grew in 500 years due to constant massacres and by far the most forced islamisations were commited against bulgarians. In fact 40% of jannisseries were kidnapped from bulgarian lands.

The greatest man to ever live is Bulgarian.

>later they decide to switch course and westernize
napoleon and france was the hype in those days

a good portion of romanian is appropriated from modern french

>Romanian simply as a 're-lexified' Slavic language - i.e. one where Vlach and Turkic boyars actively began introducing Romanisms into an essentially South Slavic language, as a sociolinguistic strategem to distinguish themselves politically and ethnically from neighbouring polities in Southeastern Europe

>Romania crypto-Slavic
>Romania until 1800s had a Slavic language, Cyrillic alphabet
>latinization of Romanian language in 1800s
>romanian language borrowed from French language to transform itself from a Slavic language to a Latin language

Napolean was big in these days and everyone wanted to get a piece of the east which was under Slavic ownership
part of a process of moving away from eastern, Slavic sphere, was to latinize by adopting French
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Cyrillic_alphabet
archive.is/DO5uW

spiritus-temporis.com/slavic-superstratum-in-romanian/

youtube.com/watch?v=MkMwitn296g

I thought pigs were haram in bulgaristan?

It is a rightful Turkish Clay. They obtained those lands by commiting massacres against Turks, Greeks, Jews and many others.

you forgot to tripfag

it does it does it does it does

They created the early alpha version of it, bulgarian scholars at the university of Preslav created the actual cyrillic script that was spread to Russia and via occupation was adopted by the rest of the south slavs, and the romanians.

Most bulgarians don't even know what glagolitic is, and think that Saints Cyril and Methodius are bulgarians.

The serbs are the weak link, yes. Their genocidal ethnic cleansing attempts destroyed the union.

I love love love how retarded and prone to conspiracy bullshit most of you are. It's literally /pol/ with dates

I like how you don't point specific posts and prove them wrong, and just generally insult everyone in the thread. Its literally /pol/, and you didn't even add a date.

>with dates

Good one m8

>the Bulgarian faggot who keeps bitching and praises Asen Bulgaria like it was a monument of civilization
>the Romanian was actually invented 200 years ago faggots
>the Yugoslavia was supposed to extend to the Aegean and Black Sea faggots

Here's one for you

Pro-yugo chetnik grandpa please, no more games. Have you ever had a date with blue cheese on crusty bread? There is no finer thing in life.

I eat them raw since they grow in my garden.

Disgusting Caucasian.