/hsg/ - Hearthstone General

Ice block for hall of fame soon edition

NERFS: us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/21029448/upcoming-balance-changes-update-91-9-5-2017#latest

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Previous thread:

So when do we think the changes will hit?

if its anytime soon everyone at apac playoffs gets fucked royally

gnomerafu best waifu

Do you think they're gonna do more Hero cards or is it going to be dead like inspire and quests?
Discover remains the only thing they keep making after the expansion hit.

I don't see it happening. I mean maybe few expansions from now, some different kind of hero card... but it won't be a common thing.

also I would think they will add more inspire stuff at some point.

I get that he's a staple and I play more Rogue myself than anything but he's a crutch

I was playing handlock and that classicaly sucks to him but he limits Rogue just as much as Auctioneer does

I miss going Questing Coin Conceal on turn 3 vs. Warlock, just how terrible is Miracle in Wild? Should I wait for the nerfs to jam it on ladder there?

>not running Blastcrystal Potion or Spellbreaker

Perhaps after next weekend when NA prelims end

I do run spellbreaker, never lucky BabyRage

As long as you don't run into Pirates, Miracle is as good as it always was.

hmmm

Umbra

Keleseth is stupid, finja is bad and gets you crap murlocs for synergy picks.

Not even in arena I can escape from Jade Druid

would you

I really, really like sagas's artwork

And also both frost lich and dreadlord jaina

>run on auto-pilot
>play Hallucination
>accidentally click on a card before seeing it
>it's Treachery

I need to stop.

Just use your other hallucination for howlfiend, how dumb are you?

Was this a good turn?

I'd go with Keleseth.
Mage is probably the class that can deal the most with having no 2 cost cards. Just value the 1 cost cards a bit more for the rest of the draw, so you might play them on turn two, and also most of them will be +1+1.

Arena is about pure value, there isn't much value than a 2 mana 2-2 gives your minion like +20+20 stats.

I think this is worth not taking other 2 costs.

So I started playing again recently and holy shit, Spreading Meme and Memefestation are so insufferable to play against. If you try to rush down Jade before it starts playing infinity 1 mana fucking 10/10 11/11 12/12 etc. you get punished by a wall of fucking 5 health taunts. If you play conservatively you get punished with 5 damage removal that spawns a fucking 5/5 and refuels their entire hand - there's no consequences for only playing ramp cards because you can hit 10 mana as a Druid by turn 5 and then draw into your elephants, plagues, idols, etc. what th fuck is Jade Druid even weak against besides Aggro Druid, when even Aggro would get walled by Plague? This expansion plays worse than Shamanstone, at least Shamans didn't get two copies of a card that does damage, heals, plays a body and draws five fucking cards. Elise is a legendary that gives you 5 cards on a delay and a 5/5 body but Druid gets all that plus more in two epics?!
Then lwhat happens if Jade gets nerfed? Priest pops up with its 0 mana damage spam, turn 4 Y'Shaarj and/or playing like five copies of that bullshit statue with taunt, lifesteal, 8 fucking health and does 2 for 1 when you trade into it. Why in god's name would they make these cards that do like twenty different things at a time? I think my last twenty matches have been against exclusively Druid and I can't even escape it in Casual or Wild mode. What the fuck.

Very dumb apparently, but I actually would like to know what the chances are of getting both.

Still won.

2 mana to (50% of the time) swap the order of the next 2 cards, and 50% of the time do nothing at all?

So (I know this isn't an extremely accurate way to count things) but it's like paying 4 mana, on average, for every 'swap' you want to do.

And sometime it's not a game winning swap or anything, you'll just take an irrelevant card that is 5% better than the other irrelevant card...

Or if both cards are above your mana cost, again it does nothing.

Short answer : no.

They said ice block won't go to HoF until at LEAST next rotation. Better than nothing but still a way off.

>fiery win axe finally gets axed after 3 years

I thought this day would never come.

>imagine Warlock had 19 HP

What's the play?

Now warrior got no removals for early drops, happy?

Warleader nerf.

Is this the end for mid-range paladin?

>Nerfing warrior when both pirate warrior and fedora warrior are no longer at the top
>Nerfing shaman when its no longer at the top
>Not touching priest
>Nerfing druid core even more so after jade and koft rotates its the worst deck in the game because you dont want to give back dust for 2x epic
Everyday i want team 5 to die in a fire even more

If fiery war axe costs 3 frostbolt also should cost 3

fan, auctionneer, giants into 4-7 and 2 into face, trade 1-1 into doomguard.

Gotta kick them while they're down, user

People get 1600 dust twice

I didnt get shit fuck blizzard

2 fan, trade everything, 1 giant face. Yeah think that's better.

Prep, Coin, Concede

>a weapon that deals 6 damage - or 9, or 12... should cost the same as a spell that deals 3 damage (or, rarely, 4).

And frostbolt doesn't enable a bullshit deck.

your avg druid hand

I would be at 11 Health, take 4 from the next fatigue, so he would need 7 damage in order to kill me, or another Taunt to stall until I die from fatigue.

All things considered, that does seem like the play with the highest chances of winning.

I would have still won this game if he didn't get the Nether card from Lich King :)))))))

If they clearly identified Spreading Plague as the issue card, why didn't they give it a nerf that actually matters and make it 7 mana? Holy fucking shit, he followed this up with Malfurion too

>9, or 12
More like 11 or 17

Yeah, I'm not familiar with this deck, but they surely run Bonemare? So you can't leave a 1-1 on board, and have to fan twice. (fanning only once means you can't kill either the doomguard or the demon shit, unless you trade a giant into it but then you can't win).

When does the next rotation to wild happen? I can't stand the cancer anymore

I couldn't visit the general for the last 3 days.
So what's the consensus on the nerfs? Can Ben and Co get any more retarded?

i hope to god handlock will be semi viable after jade '''nerfs'''

the nerf is all wrong anyway.
it doesn't do much against control, all it does is to allow other cancer decks (pirate etc.. ) to kill this cancer deck with more ease.

that should not be the goal, it should be to get the 'fine' decks to beat these cancer decks.

What they could've done is to make their HP lower. It doesn't do much against aggro, but against control it would help a lot, either to clear them with AoE's, or with your board.

Because when they use this, usually most of your minions can't kill a 5 health minion in 1 hit. So the wall stays for more than 1 turn, and this is deadly against a class like druid, to do nothing great for 2 turns, just ram a wall.

If they were 1-3 it'd be closer to balance. Can't kill them with the 'basic' clears like consecration, and if you clear them with hellfire well you butcher your board as well, etc..

>it doesn't do much against control, all it does is to allow other cancer decks (pirate etc.. ) to kill this cancer deck with more ease.
Except it doesn't, there's literally no difference between 5 mana and 6 mana for a Druid.

Reminder that Druid can do plenty of really cool things and the Jade mechanic single-handedly ruins it forever in one format or another

That sounds about right. Many players would shy away from that option because they don't want to take extra fatigue damage, but in this case it would have definitely been worth it.

>cancer decks (pirate etc.. ) to kill this cancer deck with more ease.
Pirates got hit harder than druid.

They nerfed the right Druid cards, they finally addressed a weapon that has been OP since the dawn of time (although probably not the best idea to just change mana cost with the reasoning they gave) and they randomly nerfed Hex, which was a strong card but shaman hasn't even been playing as of late cause devolve usually gets more shit done against flood decks.
Warleader nerf was good too, but only because they are retarded with health auras, same reasoning that got blood imp nerfed in the first place, if a creature is 1/1 and the creature giving the aura health dies that creature should just die.

Not sure what you mean really.
If you're talking about innervating it on turn 4, well it could've been innervated on turn 3 before the nerf.

And if you're talking about ramping, well even if you use it on the actual turn 4, before the nerf that would've been the actual turn 3.

Regardless of how/when he use it, it's gonna be 1 turn later.
Pirate can do a hell of damage in 1 turn.

Nah they correctly you identified it abd even said they were GOING to do the right thing, and then fucking didn't

Fun

Sure, but they nefed almost all Druid counters harder than they nerfed Druid itself.

Warlock doesn't run Bonemare

That screenshot is from a Krul deck..
You run 30 different cards and can't find a spot for bonemare?

No

>Nah they correctly you identified it abd even said they were GOING to do the right thing, and then fucking didn't

They didnt nerf UI, they didnt nerf plague enough, and the innervate nerf is iffy because druid has a very weak core since FoN and lore died. Now its literally a counterfeit coin like rogues, which is total shit.

>nerfs massively trigger reddit
>brode gets downvoted into obscurity
>reasonable discussion is ignored

Lovely.

Phoneposting at work and such, but it is a pretty straightforward statement

They stated they were heavily considering making Plague 7 mana, and then said "well huh maybe that's just too hard on it I mean we're nerfing Innervate too right? :)"

UI doesn't need to be nerfed, it's a 10 mana spell, other classes just need late game cards that are as good as that, since forever this game has been about the early game, and they finally printed a late game card worth a fucking damn and now people are crying for it to be nerfed when it isn't the problem alone, a 10 mana spell should be powerful but hard to cast, and innervate made it really easy to get it off by turn 6 or even 5 if you got enough ramp which was why the win rate of it being cast was so high.

priest makes this game not fun

Sorry but 10 mana doesn't mean they should be bullshit I win cards if you draw them before your opponent does.

>Fiery war axe
>2 mana
>3/2 weapon
>Reads: Destroy this weapon after hitting the enemy hero
Would it be a better nerf? Hurts pirates without destroyin control forever.

>brode gets downvoted into obscurity
>check his profile
>massively upvoted
¿¿¿

Absolutely, they should just be bullshit I win cards if you cast them before your opponent does, which was why innervate was nerfed, do you understand now?

Isn't that exactly what the DK cards are, just at varying mana costs?

Not that user, but Brode getting only 39 upvotes is pretty unusual. Usually he can write whatever he wants and he would still get millions of upvotes.

>mfw winning off a Swashburglar card
It never feels better.
It's the ONLY RNG card in the whole deck but...
Christ.

It's still typical reddit anus licking. They're not mad about the nerfs or the money grubbing or the blatant lies; all of those posts are just "Ummm Mr. Brode I'm okay with the war axe nerf but ummm m-maybe you don't have to insult me next time?"

>play Swashburglar
>get Antonidas
I'd say I felt bad about this but then I remember I was playing against a mage and can easily say he deserved it.

No, not at all.
They bring you closer to a win condition but that's not the same thing at all.

Pyroblast was run in some decks.
So you for 10 mana in both case you deal 5 damage

With Pyroblast, you deal another 5 damage.
With UI you spawn a 5-5, get 5 armor (more useful than dealing 5 damage, because you're not aggro), and you draw 5 fucking cards.

Which one do you think is best?
Now, the one you (hopefully) think is best, you can also use him 2-3 turns earlier. The only drawback is that you need to use one or two ramping cards, which means that on top of 5 damage, you 'ONLY' get :
spawn a 5-5, get 5 armor, and draw 3-4 cards.

Ramping up used to have huge drawbacks, becuase it was about using cards that did nothing (aside from ramping up). But this card negates that. Put it this way : If you could have 4 innervate in your hand on turn 2, you would innervate x 4 and UI. Who cares about spending 5 cards on it? You get 5 back, and you kill a minion, spawn one, etc..

If you ever played druid, you know how fucking stupid it is when you almost never get to use the second UI, because you just can't get your hand cardlow enough (unless you get to ""fatigue"" (aka only jade idols).

So these ramping cards have no drawback at all you're always full of cards. That's all on UI.
Without UI, ramping up has a cost, a permanent one. You will ALWAYS be 1 card down if you use 1 ramp card, 2 cards down if you use 2...
But with UI you won't. You'll avoid using card draw because you'd burn some cards, so you're not any card down anymore.

IS THERE A BETTER FEELING?

Why does one of the weapon classes have a strictly worse eaglehorn bow? And then you start blabbering about class Identity the very next paragraph. What in the actual fuck?
Yeah fuck pirate and fuck heavy control warrior, as if FWA was the culprit of what makes those decks so annoying to play against. Now quest shaman and druid are even more dead because the other druid decks and murloc paladin were insufferable.

Yes I mad.

>Play Control Buffadin
>Lose because Priest can do like 6-10 FREE face damage per turn while establishing their board and removing mine thanks to Raza and Anduin
>Meanwhile half of the other DK cards are either situational, memes, or literal trash
Great. Excellent.

8 months until no more Jade. By then, Druid will be dead thanks to nerfs.

>nerfing Hex
What the fuck is blizzards problem?

Underrated cards
>Grave Shambler
>Bladed Cultist
>Shadowblade (outside Mill)
>Luckydo Buccaneer
Christ I'm having a good time.

Anyone think the reason this game is going to shit like that is that Blizzard can't afford a "flop" expansion?

Meaning, not a "shit" expansion, that's most of them, but I mean, an expansion where the cards aren't exactly good enough and people would keep playing mostly stuff from the previous ones?

If Blizzard had such a flop expansion, they'd make no money on packs&shit, which would look terrible on their quarterly and stuff. So, to avoid this problem, they make sure that the expansion is played, and the only way to make sure the expansion cards are strong enough to be played - given that it's hard to evaluate cards without millions games in the database - they have to make the cards super OP so (even if they were wrong and they are not as good as they thought) they are still "somewhat OP", whereas if they just made them what they think is BALANCED, if they fucked up then they'll be weak/unplayable, which means people keep playing the old stuff and Blizzard doesn't make any money.

So every expansion has to be stronger than the last one, and it snowballs with every new one.

D-don't worry bros, we'll be getting something good in return, because we have a better class identity right?
like weapon rogue

This is why blizzard keep fucking up.
Same thing with warrior. When pirate goes out, warrior will be shit again because horrible early game with 3 mana FWA taht won't be buffed to a 18 attack/6 charges anymore or some shit.

I've never in any way implied Pyroblast is close to the power of UI, all I said was the the power of UI should be staple for this kind of lategame card, early drops have had powercreep happening since forever ago to them, and now it's finally happening to late game cards, which hasn't happened before because the early game cards were so overpowering and getting a curve was so important that late game cards were never seeing any play, in this game having a huge mana cost card is often getting a card in your hand you can't play for several turns, it needs to be worthy of that price, they just fucked up by giving it do druid first cause it's the one class that can cheese it early

Well, Kharazan was one already. It introduced absolutely no new decks nor shifted the meta, just made the strong decks stronger and the wear ones weaker.
As of today, i think hs can afford some terrible expansions, but, as much im disgusted by current valve, i want to see that dota card game either force hs to improvd or kill it outright.

That's what happens when your game is p2w.

If cards weren't purchasable, only collectible, there wouldn't be outrages about nerfed/buffed cards, dust refunds, shit like that.

Now we they don't have the flexibility to make balance changes, since it causes an outrage. All they can do is print more and more OP cards.

Imagine if packs only gave cosmetic upgrades to cards (golden) and all cards were obtainable through grinding for free, no one would moan about dust.

Artifact can't come soon enough.

Why do you think they revealed the nerfs so early? In my experience in other games balance patches usually hit only a few days after notes.

As dumb as it might sound, maybe UI is fine, but it's in the wrong class. Ramp is supposed to be an "all eggs in one basket" kind of deal. Regaining a full hand after doing so is the absolutely wrong way to go about it.

UI should've been a Shaman card or something, so they actually have a real control deck for a change.

HORAYYYYYYY I'M FUCKING RICH

>I've never in any way implied Pyroblast is close to the power of UI

I've never implied that you implied that. You're missing my point.

Which is ; UI is a million times better than a card THAT WAS PLAYED in some decks.
And you can play it for 3-4 less mana.

I don't care if they make a clear upgrade over a card no one would ever use.

But if you make an ABSURD upgrade over a card that saw some play... And that it can be used for less mana easily...
And yes innervate is in part to blame for that, but that's not it. Even without innervate people would still ramp it and use it on turn 7-8. So you use a card insanely stronger than pyroblast, on turn 7-8. And even without any ramp, people would still use it on turn 10 because it's that good.

They nerfed FWA for multiple reasons:
1.) Autoinclude in EVERY WARRIOR DECK FOREVER SINCE THE DAWN OF HEARTHSTONE, also limiting >design space

This means that warrior will rarely get good early game cards, the last actual playable proactive play that warrior has gotten on 1 or two mana was fucking Alextrsza's Champion.
I play wallet warrior exclusively and I can say that we're not going to get any good proactive tools for the early game as long as FWA is the single best weapon in the game at two mana.
Just look at the fucking retarded enrage memecards we got this time around, holy shit.

2.)Pirate warrior being basically the same deck since inception
I love pirate warrior, I think it is a very honest aggro deck that keeps the format in check and is 100% needed. The most healthy aggro deck we've had in a long while, and easily teched against.

However, it is not only the same fucking deck that started raping poor little Anduins back in mean streets, it's also the highest winrate deck according to Blozzerd.
This change definitely won't kill the deck, but it will force them to play a lot more midrangey, with shit like forge of souls. Maybe we'll see tempo warrior and pirates merge together or something.
All in all, the changes are interesting and I welcome them.
Would've really loved UI or Jades to get nerfed into unplayability tho, Jades will propably still be too strong.

Hero cards have widely seen lots of play though. There's a reason why we've seen a ton of Discover cards in every set since LoE, but not a single Inspire card after TGT. I expect more Hero cards in new sets moving forward.

If Wild is an indication, Control Shaman doesn't need THAT much to become good in Standard

If you had to pick the next big mechanic for the next expansion what would you do?

And would it compete with the death knight heroes, or be used alongside?

>Warrior
>shit again

What did he mean by this?

Is it possible to reach legend with midrange hunter only in current meta?

wotog and TGT were relatively weak compared to what surrounded them, in wotog's case there was just no cards to play otherwise because rotation

Still my OC donut steal keyword

Is this how you make a control mage?

Do you win 51% of your game?
Do you play a lot of games?

It's possible to reach legend with just about any deck that isn't utterly unplayable. Most people don't, because their winrate is

I expect the pirate package to still be a staple, along with just cutting stuff like Deckhand and Heroic Strike in favor of midrange minions