How did the black plague spread from China to Europe?

They wouldn't make it to the other corner. Half the reason why the Black Plague was so bad was because it spread to other people very easily. Plus you had things like rats and fleas that could carry the disease.

Look at the map

its around 1500km in between the cities. Theres no way they finish that trip

Those are only the major cities. You do know that Central Asia wasn't all steppe, right?

Theres an incubation period where you can spread it to others without feeling the effects, in addition to being reasonably mobile until quite close to death. You could easily contract the plague in one village and have visited and spread it to several others along the route before you notice you are infected.

All the caravans leaving those villages in every dirrection were also infected by you and are carrying it even further also without knowing they are infected.

Keeping in mind also there is no knowledge of germ theory, so they wouldnt have understood that people travelling from one place to another were carrying something with them that they didnt know about.

>this heavily zoomed out map to show a generalised route of the silk road is litterally all that was there
>it was absolutely nothing but perfectly flat, barren wasteland exept those dozen cities

Except the Altai mountains at Kashgar and the Persian plateau.

Diseases are not constant either in their mortality or their virulence. An extremely deadly strain in a lightly populated area will just kill all the local potential victims and then die off. Natural selection tends to favor deadlier strains in densely populated areas where transmission is much easier, but less dangerous strains in less densely populated areas. It's likely that the bubonic plague was much less deadly until it reached urban areas such as Persia and Europe, or in China.

Syphilis is one example, being believed to have intensified in its mortality and the severity of its victims during the Italian Wars due to the high incidences of sex (consensual or not) in the civilian population.
>evolve360.co.uk/data/10/docs/06/06clough.pdf

There are modern cases of plague and by the week you are already covered in pus bumps

The terrain was difficult too

How far could someone travel in the middle ages a day while being horribly sick?

On horseback, as part of a caravan? Probably only slightly less far as while healthy. Not to mention all that week when you are far healthier but still spreading it to every inn, bazaar and passerby you go near.

and if the horse were to get sick?

Horses dont get bubonic plague. Even if they did, they would last a lot longer than their riders.

You know rats and other shit carried the plague too besides humans

well if you look at the map it took 10 years to get from the east to the west

How is that possible

how come no one did anything?

Why did it die in Europe in only 4 years if it took 10+ to reach it

>There are modern cases of plague and by the week you are already covered in pus bumps
Because the world nowadays is heavily globalized and urbanized. But when population density decreases or water quality improves, plagues become less dangerous.

Another example is the 1990s Brazilian Cholera outbreak. As authorities began to fix up water quality, cholera strains became less toxigenic, so that you could spend longer times without exhibiting symptoms while still infecting people.

Because it takes less than 4 years to get to Europe from Asia. Where exactly are you getting any of this information from?

>how come no one did anything?
Because immunology was outside the grasp of the vast majority of societies (iirc only the Chinese regularly immunized, and that was for smallpox), and most of these civilizations were too busy dealing with being fucking eviscerated by the mongols to deal with a few sick merchants.

>Why did it die in Europe in only 4 years
It became too virulent and deadly in response to access to cities, so it killed off or immunized too many of the vectors to further proliferate. Of course, when populations recovered, new strains developed with similar symptoms, which is why there were smaller outbreaks of bubonic plague afterwards.

Look at OP

>Theres been rumors of people dying of a horrific disease to the east what if we do something about it

rats and their fleas

>how come no one did anything?
Poland did something about it

How come Poland could control its entire border while no one else could?

population density and jews

Even rats have standards

>Jawid, how about you shut the fuck up and help me get these horses together for next year's tribute to the khan

Do what exactly? Noone knew what caused it. Speculation ranged from it being mass poisoning, to foul smelling fog, to the malignant influence of the planets, to the litteraly wrath of God. What "something" are they going to do to stop Venus from fucking their shit up?

Those dates are also when the plague itself first appeared in those cities, not the time it took to travel from one end of the silk road to the other.

It took too fucking long for people from countries in the west not do something about it before its too late

Whatever Poland did

"before its too late" being almost as soon as its happening. Communications were as fast as the fastest horse in town. They could hardly get on Skype and tell their buddies in London and Paris to get ready because theres a horrible illness coming their way. They would have had vvague rumours at best, then the same people spreading the news would also be spreading the disease.

Poland didn't really do anything. It just happened to be somewhat isolated from the rest of europe at the time.

You are going to tell me that NONE country of the developed world other htan Poland couldn't stop it?

That woudlnt have stopped refugees

Yes, because the developed worlds technology level consisted of consulting the patients star sign and giving them hot soup if they were too cold and draining off some of their blood if they were too hot, because thats what Galen said to do a thousand years before and he was a pretty cool dude.

They had absolutely no idea how the plague was spread. How could they have stopped it if they didnt know what it was?

>Dude i heard half our bordering country is reckt because of a mysterious disease
>this somehow went on for 10 years and 10k kilometers

And? Where do you go from there?

>We heard theres this disease somewhere off to the East
>?????
>Successfully preventing the Black Death in Europe

>Dude i heard half our bordering country is reckt because of a mysterious disease
By the time half of a bordering country was remotely "reckt," you'd already be suffering from it yourself.
And people tried to do stuff about it. Priests tried to pray for them, and a lot of them died. The Pope sat by a huge fire all day. People started whipping themselves or going into fits of dancing. Some people killed Jews to deal with it. It's not like the world didn't do anything about it, they just didn't know what to do.

>Block all the major roads to the east or at least fill it with guards
>theres literally only one or 2 roads cause of the shit terrain

Which part of "they didnt know what was causing it" are you not comprehending?

They didnt know to block the roads because they didnt know it was infected people/fleas/whateverthelatesttheoryis carrying bacteria. They thought it was Gods wrath for their sins, or an evil fog, or Saturn being in the wrong position.

>theres literally only one or 2 roads cause of the shit terrain
What shit terrain? Half of it is steppes and plains.

>the king had to personally see it with its own eyes
>countries/kingdoms back then didn't have counter measures against outbreaks

reading this thread makes me feel embarrassed to use Veeky Forums. I can't believe I try to have serious discussion with people this retarded.

Also,even if they did know, the idea of just sending guards to stop people is laughable. Its medieval Europe. We can barely control borders now, with thousands of miles of barbed wire, cameras, night vision goggles, helicopter patrols and satellite imaging. At best, people will just go a mile down the road to where the guards arent and get in that way. At worst, they'll infect your guards and they'll carry it back directly into your country.

No, they didnt, because they didnt know what an outbreak was.

Then explain fucking Poland

>urban civilizations didn't know what a pandemic was

>A pandemic? Whats that?
>Its when lots of people die of the same thing
>Sounds like the wrath of God/malignant influence of the celestial bodies/miasma/poisoning to me.

They knew what a plague was, but they didn't really have a clear idea of how it happened.

And no, they literally didn't know what pandemic was because the word Pandemic didn't fucking exist until the mid 17th century.

An anomaly. Even then Poland still suffered from the plague, just less so than the rest of Europe.

if that was the case there would have been dozen of black plague like events every year

They fucking knew what happened when a disease was out of control in some part of the kingdom. This is literally no different in any way other than it has stupidly high mortality rates

You are going to tell me that for over 10+ years across dozen of kingdoms and civilizations

No one fucking did anything

>B-but thats how it is

Then explain Poland

>its magic i aint gotta explain shit

>dozens of black plague like events every year

There were

>They fucking knew what happened when a disease was out of control in some part of the kingdom

Yeah, a lot of people died of the same thing at once.

Noone knows why Poland got off lightly. Its not like a Taiwanese Glass Blowing forum is going to stumble across the solution.

>There were
Link them

>

Yeah, a lot of people died of the same thing at once.

>Noone knows why Poland got off lightly. Its not like a Taiwanese Glass Blowing forum is going to stumble across the solution.

Why did you cut

>They fucking knew what happened when a disease was out of control in some part of the kingdom. This is literally no different in any way other than it has stupidly high mortality rates

>You are going to tell me that for over 10+ years across dozen of kingdoms and civilizations

>No one fucking did anything

>Noone knows why Poland got off lightly. Its not like a Taiwanese Glass Blowing forum is going to stumble across the solution.
it doesn't matter if people don't know. It pretty much discards it was a natural occurrence

>You are going to tell me that for over 10+ years across dozen of kingdoms and civilizations
>No one fucking did anything
They fucking did, read It just wasn't the right things.

>Then explain Poland
It was a relatively remote part of Europe that still suffered significantly from the bubonic plague.The recent outbreak of Ebola killed nearly 5000 people in Liberia, the worst hit nation. That accounted for .1% of the population. 15% of Poland's population is believed to have died. It was still fucking terrible, but less so because Poland was less urbanized than western Europe, and thus there were probably less deadly strains of the disease.

>b-but you'd know something happened
Yes you fucking ignoramus they knew, but the scientific method hadn't even been fucking invented yet, and you expect them to know modern epidemiology? But go on, keep on assuming that the medieval world had 21st century communications and a modern understanding of medicine and epidemiology and waiting for a response nobody is going to give you.

I am sorry, but you really, really need to go read a book about the Black Plague. The fact that you are so ignorant about the subject just makes you look really bad.

That doesn't explain anything

Literally the rest of the known world including fucking Lithuania and those countries suffered from it

>Remote
even better yet for all refugees fleeing from the crowded plague ridden cities. EVERYTHING FROM ALL DIRECTIONS of Poland got hit by it

>I don't have arguments im going to attack you

I made the thread to ask. You cannot back up your own arguments which dont survive the simplest question, why do you go do that?

>scientific method
they had already dealt with other diseases outbreak they knew in very basic lines what they had to do and you keep fucking cutting

>They fucking knew what happened when a disease was out of control in some part of the kingdom. This is literally no different in any way other than it has stupidly high mortality rates

>You are going to tell me that for over 10+ years across dozen of kingdoms and civilizations

>No one fucking did anything

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_plague_pandemic#Recurrence_throughout_Europe

How does it discard it? NOONE KNOWS. Them having a fuckton of cats to eat the rats is just as likely a solution as no fucker wanted to go there, because noone knows the answer.

I'm starting to think this may be some kind of shithead nationalists "wooo poland greatest poland stopped plague while other eurofags died woo poland best poland best poland best" trolling attempt.

>the king has to fucking hear theres a plague for whoever is assigned to the borders moves the his butt of his chair and does something about it

and you keep cutting more stuff you don't want to reply to

>there being nothing there is good for refugees

THERE IS NOTHING THERE FOR THE REFUGEES TO GO TO. There's no UN to hand out food parcels. No refugee camps for them to sit in until it all blows over. Fleeing to a remote area means starving to death in the woods. The only people who could flee were the nobles and wealthy merchants who went to their own country estates that were already supplied.

Protip: Theres more than one person replying to you.

What the fuck does borders have to do with anything? Are you actually illiterate? For the 3990th time THEY DID NOT KNOW TO CLOSE THE BORDERS BECAUSE THEY DID NOT KNOW HOW THE BLACK DEATH SPREAD.

>Literally the rest of the known world including fucking Lithuania and those countries suffered from it
You know what, fuck it. Go ask Veeky Forums what evolutionary epidemiology is and how it applies to the mortality of the bubonic plague. I've explained it twice already, once with a direct source to a paper explaining exactly how a disease can become less deadly in a less urbanized area like Poland.
>even better yet for all refugees fleeing from the crowded plague ridden cities.
Bring up some figures on how many refugees were created by the Bubonic plague. I'll wait.
>they had already dealt with other diseases outbreak
Generally by killing Jews and a lot of prayer and waiting for the plague to die out.

>They fucking knew what happened when a disease was out of control in some part of the kingdom. This is literally no different in any way other than it has stupidly high mortality rates
They knew it was a plague. They didn't know how it spread, what rationale it spread with or what most of the vectors were.
>You are going to tell me that for over 10+ years across dozen of kingdoms and civilizations
They dealt with it at different time frames.
>No one fucking did anything
See
And here's a source.
>sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/themes/publichealth/blackdeath

>the king has to fucking hear theres a plague for whoever is assigned to the borders moves the his butt of his chair and does something about it
See the above source.
>When the Black Death spread through Italy in late 1347, some ports began turning away ships suspected of coming from infected areas.
> But these measures were too little, too late. Plague took hold and Venetians died in their tens of thousands.
>Other Italian cities tried similar measures. >Restrictions on imports and exports, travel, market trading and funerals were all brought in, but again to no effect.
Because it didn't work.

>plague attacks the whole known world
>it takes 10 fucking years to get to Europe
>Only place not attacked for the entire plague which took a total of 18 years
>a pandemic that somehow lasted 18 years
>Didn't touch Poland which was surrounded by countries that did affect it
>if you were a dude back then you wouldn't have kept moving in hopes of not getting it

Sure thing

>Didn't touch Poland which was surrounded by countries that did affect it
For the last fucking time, it touched Poland.

"Poland lost about a quarter of its population to the plague (...)" - Gottfried, Robert S. Black Death. New York: The Free Press, 1983.

Thats a whole lot of none arguments you have there

They could have cut off the access to their country or at least attempted it

Yeah that was for italy. What about the rest of the civilized world

You are just googling. You know jack shit about the plague

Why do you even reply.

>Thats a whole lot of none arguments you have there
I answered all the fucking points you complained about cutting off. If there is something factually wrong with them, feel free to cite sources.
>They could have cut off the access to their country or at least attempted it
They could have but it clearly didn't fucking work.

>You are just googling. You know jack shit about the plague
I am looking for a source to stick up your uneducated ass so you can stop asking the same stupid questions and then getting frustrated at the same answers.
>Why do you even reply.
Frankly, I don't know. You clearly aren't looking for answers.

Yep, you are dense.The plague didnt last 18 years. That map isnt of constant plague happening continually in a big cloud over Europe.It is when the plague hits that particular town. When it reaches London, its already burned out in the first few places where it entered Europe.

If you were a dude back then, you litterally couldnt move at all for the overwhelming population. You were either more or less owned by your lord and could only leave with his explicit permission or your entire livelihood was tied to your land or your business premises.

>sure thing

It's almost as though theres two very distinct writing and debating styles arguing with you, or something...

For the 289347287428472th time, WHY WOULD THEY CUT OFF ACCESS TO THEIR COUNTRY WHEN THEY DID NOT KNOW THEY NEEDED TO CUT OFF ACCESS TO THEIR COUNTRY?

No you didn't

Before you said they didnt know

now you say they tried and failed

You know jack shit about this you are googling

I mean i knew from the beginning you knew jack shit but went along with it.

>B-but im having fun
Kill yourself

>It hits china over 10+ years before it got to Europe
And lasted 4-5 in europe
>Didnt last 18 years

>Before you said they didnt know
Yes, they didn't know how the plague spread. They tried different responses because they didn't know, including quarantine, which failed.

>You know jack shit about this you are googling
I already explained to you the evolutionary epidemiological explanation to why it avoided Poland, you just fucking ignored it.

>I mean i knew from the beginning you knew jack shit but went along with it.
>I-I was just pretending to be retarded
Sure buddy.

Fucking fuck me...

Yes, one of the plague outbreaks known as the Black Death lasts about 18 years overall. But that doesnt mean that there was plague everywhere, for the entire 18 years. It was a rolling outbreak that spread forward while dying down at the back. Nanchang was not infected with plague at the same time as London.

>literally 1/3-2/3 of the population of the entire known world fucking died
>It wasn't everywhere

you didnt explain shit you only threw buzzwords

Thats literally what you did albeit you are not pretending, you are

And in 18 years

fucking 18 years

In 10 years it took to get to Eruope across places with little population density

3650 days back then where they could only travel so much per day and only during daytime

No one did anything to stop it

thats impossible unless someone spread it on purpose

He's all yours, user, I give up.

>thats impossible unless someone spread it on purpose

brace for DA JOOZ

>it wasnt everywhere

It most certain was everywhere, I said nothing to the contrary. However, it was not everywhere at the same time. It being a ripple spreading Westwards and getting weaker and ultimately fading out as time goes on.
>noone did anything to stop it

As has been repeatedly pointed out, they did try to stop it, but they didnt know what IT was, so all their attempts were useless

>thats impossible unless someone spread it on purpose

And here we go, what it was all building up to.

Fine. Whatever.

Yes, you are quite correct. It was the perfidious Jews once again.They spread the plague in order to advance their evil ends of getting thousands of their people set on fire. Because.... reasons.

Fuck you dude, its 3:30am here, YOU educate him!

>However, it was not everywhere at the same time. It being a ripple spreading Westwards and getting weaker and ultimately fading out as time goes on.
Thats my point

How the fuck could it rekt the entire civilized world in over 18 years

Its impossible

>And here we go, what it was all building up to.
Fucking explain how its possible to develop naturally

Can you stop samefagging?

Are you honestly meaning to say you think someone spread the black plague on purpose? How? Even if someone was trying to eradicate populations, nobody knew how the plague spread so they wouldn't know how to spread it! It might as well have been the gods if you are going to go down that path!

Dohoho

Are you giving up?

>I was pretending
>It was a joke all along
>i was having fun

Why did you even start this shit i really wanted legitimate naswer
>i was beng legitimate
fuck you

Because thats how diseases spread user. It's basic biology. Some fucker A from shithole A fucks a muskrat or some shit, then goes to visit the brothel in shithole B and coughs on fucker B. Fucker B goes to visit his uncle Fucker C in shithole C and doesnt wash his hands after pissing all over the toilet seat. Fucker C needs to go on a business trip to big shithole D where he coughs, pukes and sodomises fuckers defghijk and so on, who all go off and do their thing in their respective shitholes, and it goes from there.

Next weeks science lesson will be on how babby is formed.

>he thinks he's important enough for some guy to fake multiple personalities, writing stypes and debating styles, just ofr him

That doesnt explain anything

>why
>18 years
>10k kilometers
>100% mortality rate
>7 weeks symptons
>etc

Its THE JEWS remember. They obviously used Jewish Biology to have a few hundred year head start on the rest of the globe and knew all about germ theory while every other fucker was still sucking Galens cock, and used the knowledge to spread a disease that not only would hit their own communities just as hard, if not harder, but also cause an obvious and inevitable backlash against them.

Because reasons.

>not 18 years all at once
>not 10k kilometers all at once
>not 100% mortality
>incubation period varies from patient to patient

>All of this supports my claims
>incubation varies
>Symptons start within the week
>It become visible at the week
>they have to travel all sick across thosuands of kilometers of desert and mountains

You have to be trolling at this point. Read what I am saying.

It is not one guy completing the entire thousand mile trip, personally. I posted how the silk road works as like the 5th reply to this thread. It is spreading from person to person, with the original person dying and the second person passing it on to someone else before also dying.

grgregrtg

>I posted some shit that doesn't explain nothing
>it would be impossible for this to happen

I just got here, jackass. Do you really not realize there are 3 or 4 different people explaining shit to you and you just aren't listening?

>I really want a legitimate answer
We've given them to you! You just either aren't listening or don't want to!

>same writing
>different dudes

>how the trade route that the disease spread along works
>how diseases spread
>"doesnt explain nothing"

Impossible for what to happen? For people to keep infecting each other, without knowing that they are infecting each other, across known commercial routes? Gedoutahere.

...

If only there were some kind of counter in the corners of the screen that would tally how many posters there are in each thread...

>same writing
>overly sweary, greentexting and passive agressive guy (me)
>provider of detailed medical terminology and sources
>at least one other fucker
>same writing

What are proxies and phones